UMR poll on Jones not Labour

Yesterday  Whale Oil and today Kiwiblog have had posts claiming a poll asking a question on Shane Jones was done by Labour, speculating it was with an aim of attacking  Jones.

Whale Oil: Labour getting ready to shaft Shane Jones?

Kiwiblog:  Are Labour planning smear campaign on Shane Jones?

The poll question:

Which of the following is closer to your own view even if not quite right?

o Shane Jones delivered amusing one liners but his political career was accident prone and did not amount to much. The most attention he got was for using his parliamentary credit card to pay for pornographic movies.
o Shane Jones was one of the few politicians who tells it like it is and with his attacks on Countdown has been the most effective Labour politician this year. He will be a huge loss to Labour especially amongst Maori and blue collar voters.

Russell Brown says that it definitely wasn’t Labour who commissioned the poll.

The “UMR polling commissioned by Labour” being touted by Whaleoil is nothing of the kind. Not commissioned, received or paid for by Labour.

Not that I’d be hanging out for a correction. Just saying he’s firmly holding the wrong end of the stick.

And no, I didn’t get that information from Labour either. I’m surprised they haven’t made it clear though.

I asked him if he knew who.

No, but definitely not Labour. I would naturally *like* to know :-)

Not the first time whoever-it-is has been mistaken for internal labour polling, I gather.

More tweets on this as David Farrar checks it out:

What is your source? Will update if it is someone on the record.

Considering the same poll was testing potential policies for Labour, I’d be sceptical short of an on the reecord denial.

And Russell responded:

Or you could offer some evidence that it is what you say it is. It usually works that way.

Fair call. Then @publicaddress

But no, sorry, it’s a confidential source, but one I’m very confident is correct.

@dpfdpf

I think one can use common sense. Who would want to poll on Shane Jones except media and Labour?

Considering the same poll was testing potential policies for Labour, I’d be sceptical short of an on the reecord denial.

All it takes is for Labour to say on the record “Not us”.

Well whoever it is, is presumably the same person or party polling on a $3 billion a year carbon tax.

So who would have the inclination and the money to do apparently multiple polls that look like they are Labour orientated?

I wonder if NZ First commission polls. The Conservative and Internet parties are both known to commission polling.

Soon returning MP Kelvin Davis launches

Kelvin Davis will soon replace Shane Jones in Parliament as next on the Labour list. He has posted this comment in Facebook.

Well today is my first full day of being unemployed. I had to resign yesterday to avoid compromising my former employer (MoE). Public servants aren’t allowed to make comments to the media and the 24 hours after Paddy Gower dropped his Shane Jones bombshell I would have broken that rule, I dunno, maybe 30-40 times.

Anyway I sat down this morning to address all the Facebook, twitter and email messages and well-wishers only to find my computer has well and truly crapped out.

Responding to them all on a smartphone is proving nigh on impossible.

So sorry if i don’t get back to people in a timely way.

So far people have been gracious regarding my pending return to parliament, but I expect the threats and nutters to start up again the closer we get to the Election. Oh well, such is the lot of a politician.

I just want to reinforce my four political priorities before RSI sets into my thumb.

People will no doubt criticise them and say there are other, better, more important things I should focus on, but I guess in the first instance I’ve got to be true to myself and focus on what I’m passionate about.

Priority 1: no surprises, improving Maori educational achievement, and more importantly, improving Maori achievements through education. I’ll argue to my dying breath that education is the road to Maori success.

Priority 2: Regional Development for Te Tai Tokerau. We’ve got plans and strategies coming out our ears in TTT, but unless a Govt stumps up with some serious dough to implement these plans we’re wasting our time. Even a quarter of 1 percent of the money going into the Christchurch rebuild would go a long way to rebuilding the Tai Tokerau economy. Te Tai Tokerau has endured it’s own tragedy, but it happened over 40 years not 40 seconds. The effects on our people have been equally devastating in the long run.

Priority 3: Te Reo Maori, it’s in a sad state and one of the reasons is that it has been rendered down in most communities to a ceremonial language that had little relevance to most peoples everyday lives. We need to make Te Reo a transactional language so that if i wish I can walk into any business, bank, supermarket, service station or pub and conduct my business in Te Reo if I choose. It is a right English speakers enjoy without having to think about it. Those who wish to conduct daily transactions in Te Reo do not enjoy this right. There are a number of simple and relatively inexpensive practical activities that can happen to get people speaking Te Reo in the community. A lot of dosh is being spent on initiatives that have questionable impacts on improving Te Reo. They need to be reprioritised.

Priority 4: Stopping sexual, physical and emotional abuse of women and children, and yes to men as well.

I was outraged with the Roastbusters scandal and the well publicized sexual abuse/ pedophile cases in Kaitaia over the last few years.

I sat back and waited for a male MP especially any male MAORI MP to make a stand and say something along the lines of “What the bloody hell is going on that men can treat women and children like this?” I was waiting for a male MP to take a stand and tell all of us men that this abuse is (predominantly) a male problem, and that we need to sort our shit out ourselves. We need to have serious conversations with our sons, grandsons and nephews about how a real man treats a woman. But i bet this is just too hard for most males.

I said in my maiden speech that it’s one thing to be born a male, but another thing entirely to become a man. We need to MAN up any have the balls to have those hard conversations with our boys.

Instead the only noise coming from male MPs was the sound of crickets chirping.

So I determined if no other male MP was prepared to stand up and start lecturing men on how we need to treat and love our women and children, and if I was ever in the position again to pick up that mantle, I will.

Some months ago I approached some people who work in this field and told them if i ever get back into parliament, tell me what I need to do to support them. I’ll give them a call soon.

So men, I don’t give a rats arse if I’m accused of not being a REAL bloke, I’ll still be a sports and rugby fanatic, get on the piss, keep up my fishing, shooting and getting lost up in the bush – but i love my wife, daughters, mother, sister, nieces,cousins, friends and colleagues too much to ignore sexual, physical and emotional abuse any longer.

 

So that’s me. No doubt I’ll make plenty of stuff ups along the way but what the hell. I’m determined to enjoy my second chance at this and loosen up a bit.

More than one Maori reporter had told me “You’re bloody hilarious on Twitter, but when we interview you you’re as dry as a brick. We need to see more of the real you.”

I’ll try to remember that advice, but in my own defence improving outcomes for Maori, growing the Tai Tokerau economy, breathing life in to Te Reo and stopping sexual, emotional and physical abuse is fairly serious work.

I better get on with it I guess.

Jones – Labour needs to pull finger

Labour list MP Shane Jones has acknowledged that Labour as a team needs to pull finger “or face a bleak future”.

Jones has just been interviewed on The Nation. He was asked what he thought of David Cunliffe’s performance.

While he understandably sidestepped that question he spoke with far more candour than most MPs would on the current state of Labour support.

He said it wasn’t just a problem with Cunliffe, he laid the responsibility on the whole Labour caucus, and all of them needed to do far better.

He acknowledged that 29% in a poll was not good, and that all the Labour MPs needed to work hard to lift their popularity. He believed that they would rise in the polls as we get closer to the election.

Jones said:

Unless we pull finger we’re looking at a bleak future.

He needs some of his colleagues to acknowledge the reality of their paltry polling. Blaming opponents, blaming bad polling and blaming media unfairness is hiding from the stark truth.

Labour are down and they have to accept and address their faults and problems, they need to take responsibility.

The need to stop pointing finger and as Jones says, pull finger.

Jones rubbishes NZ First speculation

Shane  Jones was interviewed on Radio New Zealand’s Morning Report and he has fairly comprehensively denied any attempt by him or by Winston Peters to get him to jump waka to NZ First (see Shane Jones and NZ First speculation).

 

Jones referred to Matthew Hooton’s speculation in an NBR article as, amongst other things, mischievous and scurrilous.

And Stuff reports I’m not leaving Labour – Jones

Labour MP Shane Jones denies he is planning an exit from Labour, but accepts his chance to be leader had “come and gone”.

When asked if he would be in the Labour Party at the next election, Jones said “absolutely”.

A curious comment from Jones about his chance to be leader having “come and gone”.

Does that mean if Labour miss out on forming the next government and David Cunliffe is dumped as leader Jones wouldn’t have another crack at the top job?

It’s possible that after the experience of last year’s leadership contest Jones realises he would never have wide enough caucus or party support, and he is unlikely to be backed by the union affiliates.

Shane Jones and NZ First speculation

It has been suggested that Shane Jones may be considering jumping from Labour and joining NZ First, as a successor to Winston Peters. That would enhance NZ First’s chances of making 5% in this year’s election. But is it anything other than speculation?

I’ve seen the possibility of Jones moving to NZ First discussed for months – and also to National. In many ways he has seemed an odd man out in Labour.

A blog post at The Conservative last week suggested Shane Jones belongs in NZ First.

Jones has been saying some good stuff lately and in a language that resonates with Joe-Blogg Kiwis. So much so, I question what he is doing in the Labour Party, and if Labour don’t watch out they may very well lose him to NZ First.

Whale Oil in Is Shane Jones rehearsing for leader?

Could he be auditioning for leader…and after today’s headlines is it for labour or for NZ First?

A comment by ‘gazzmaniac’ on Kiwiblog:

Jones needs to split from Labour and start his own party. Or join and lead NZ First.

‘MARC” at The Daily Blog:

Shane Jones should perhaps join NZ First or Winston First, and he would possibly be Winston’s most “suitable” successor.

Matthew Hooton has sparked the current speculation @TheNBR – Shane Jones plots exit from Labour. This is paywalled but Newstalk ZB report on it in Shane Jones may defect to New Zealand First.

Political pundit Matthew Hooton has floated the scenario in a column today in the National Business Review.

He says the maverick MP is becoming ever more indiscreet and he sees his recent behaviour as a pretext to either leave Labour or be expelled.

Hooton says Labour’s rainbow division, unions and women’s council all loathe him and he despises the Greens.

And he sees himself and Winston Peters as “two Maori boys from the North” who could hold the balance of power between National and a Labour-Green coalition.

Hooton says the plan would be for Peters, who will be 72 at the 2017 election, to hand over the leadership of the party to Jones, who would be 59.

Without any indication from Jones or Peters whether there’s any substance to this or not this can be presumed to be Hooton speculating and possibly mischief making.

UPDATE: Jones has just been interviewed on Radio New Zealand’s Morning Report and he has fairly comprehensively denied any attempt by him or by Winston Peters to get him to jump waka to NZ First. He referred to Hooton’s speculation as, amongst other things, mischievous and scurrilous.

What if Grant Robertson…

What if Grant Robertson put as much time and research and effort into rebuilding the Labour Party as he seems to be putting in to trying to destroy Judith Collins’ political career?

What if Shane Jones was an outspoken advocate for a constructive and co-operative approach within his caucus and between Labour and Greens?

What if Labour’s social media campaign promoted positive things Labour would do and the strengths of Labour MPs and candidates?

What if Labour’s poll results improved rather than deteriorated?

Some MPs, parties, political activists and journalists see politics as a dirty murky no holds barred battle of attrition, where taking down an opponent is a primary goal and taking down the Government is the ultimate aim of the opposition.

Voters tend to be turned off by negative attack politics.

Non-voters are turned turned off altogether.

David Cunliffe in Labour Pains, an interview with Gordon Campbell:

Now, we got 660,000 votes last time around, roughly speaking. We are aiming for a million votes this time around. We’ve closed some of that gap. We have a very good idea where we are going to find the balance.

Labour have indicated that they want to get the votes of some of the 800,000 who didn’t vote in 2011.

What if Grant Robertson and Shane Jones and David Cunliffe and Matt McCarten learned that in politics, negatives repel?

Hoping you will emerge victorious out of an almighty shit fight seems at odds with encouraging and persuading disillusioned people to vote.

Shane Jones – mollyhawk or mollymawk?

Shane Jones was quoted on Waatea News in Mollyhawk squawk over ironsand hearing:

Mr Jones says it’s not appropriate for a member of parliament to shoot down a statutory organisation fulfilling its statutory responsibility.

“What has irked me is not the existence of the process but the perception there are two standards here. I’m being required, after I raised issues to do with the supermarket, to void speaking too much about the role of the commerce commission so they have got clear air to do their job. If it’s good enough for me, in Labour, it’s good enough for the Green mollyhawk to do the same thing with that statutory organisation,” he says.

There has been confusion and disputes over the use of the mollyhawk versus mollymawk.

Jones has made it clear on Twitter what he meant:

Gareth Hughes @GarethMP Mar 10

Jones is calling me a mollyhawk. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9810796/Hughes-a-mollyhawk-JonesProbably … maybe it’s because like a seabird I care deeply about the marine environment

Don Christie@normnz Mar 10

@GarethMP You should sue. That claim is quite ridiculous and it is time to raise the level of debate in NZ.

Southern Limits ‏@southernlimitnzMar 10

.@normnz @GarethMP should sue @matuashane for not even getting his insult right. It’s “mawk” not “hawk.” Linnaeus weeps

Shane Jones @matuashane Mar 10

@southernlimitnz @normnz @GarethMP actually it is hawk! Talk to those us who put up with wretched bird@beach and on farm, not academics!

So Jones meant ‘mollyhawk’.

For the difference between mollyhawk (gull) and mollymawk (albatross) see Mollyhawk versus mollymawk.

Mollyhawk versus mollymawk

There’s confusion over the difference between a mollyhawk and a mollymawk after Shane Jones referred to Gareth Hughes as a mollyhawk.

Mollyhawk squawk over ironsand hearing

Mr Jones says it’s not appropriate for a member of parliament to shoot down a statutory organisation fulfilling its statutory responsibility.

“What has irked me is not the existence of the process but the perception there are two standards here. I’m being required, after I raised issues to do with the supermarket, to void speaking too much about the role of the commerce commission so they have got clear air to do their job.

If it’s good enough for me, in Labour, it’s good enough for the Green mollyhawk to do the same thing with that statutory organisation,” he says.

According to NZ Birds Online there’s a distinct difference.

Mollyhawks:

Larus dominicanus
Conservation status: Not Threatened
Other Names are: karoro, kelp gull, dominican gull, black-backed gull, mollyhawk, seagull, blackbacked gull, black backed gull

Pacific gull

Larus pacificus
Conservation status: Vagrant
Laridae, Larus

Other Names are: jack gull, Australian gull, large-billed gull, larger gull, mollyhawk

Mollymawks:

Chatham Island mollymawk

Thalassarche eremita
Conservation status: Naturally Uncommon
Diomedeidae, Thalassarche

Other Names are: Chatham Island albatross, Chatham albatross, toroa, Chatham shy albatross, Chatham mollymawk

Campbell black-browed mollymawk

Thalassarche impavida
Conservation status: Naturally Uncommon
Diomedeidae, Thalassarche

Other Names are: Campbell Island mollymawk, Campbell black-browed albatross, Campbell Island albatross, toroa, black browed mollymawk, blackbrowed mollymawk, black browed albatross, blackbrowed albatross, Campbell mollymawk, Campbell albatross

And more varieties of mollymawk here.

UPDATE: a comment at Kiwiblog from Maggy Wassilieff:

Sorry P.G….. mollyhawk is a variant word use of mollymawk…. check out H.W. Orsman ” The Oxford Dictionary of NZ English”.

ps. you’ve gotta know how to check facts if you’re editing a fact-checking service.

pps. personal disclosure: I was the plant editorial advisor for DNZE

That wasn’t a comprehensive fact checking exercise. I thought NZ Birds Online was a reasonable source.

Collins dictionary online:

mollyhawk
(New Zealand) the juvenile of the southern black-backed gull (Larus dominicanus)

mollymawk
(New Zealand) an informal name for mallemuck

I don’t have that version of the Oxford Dictionary of New Zealand English.

Online is The New Zealand Oxford Dictionary, it only lists mollymawk.

The Encyclopedia of New Zealand:

New Zealand’s smaller albatrosses
Mollymawks The Thalassarche albatrosses, sometimes known as mollymawks, are considerably smaller than the great albatrosses.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/search/teara?keys=mollymawk

No entry for mollyhawk.

It’s not surprising that the two might get confused in general usage.

Additional facts and references are always a possibility in research.

See also: Shane Jones – mollyhawk or mollymawk?

Shane Jones on “mental” Wairangi Day

Responding to a report that someone shouted “cut his head off” at the Governor-General Labour MP Shane Jones “wondered” if for some it was Wairangi (mental illness) Day.

wairangi – to be beside oneself, in a daze, infatuated, foolish, suffering from mental illness, demented, deranged, unbalanced, unhinged, crazy.

foolish, irrational – take heed that the councils of the foolish do not prevail, and that the whole country is not thrown into anarchy and confusion by the folly of a few misguided men.

NZ Herald details:

The initial signs that this year would also be restive came yesterday when the Governor-General was shouted at and there was a scuffle between protester Hinewhare Harawira and marae elders at the door of the meeting house.

Marae elder Kingi Taurua later told Radio NZ that there had been shouting “and somebody called out ‘cut his head off’, so it’s all going very, very well. As usual.”

Sir Jerry later said he did not hear the comment.

Told of the report somebody had shouted “cut his head off” , Labour MP Shane Jones, who is from Northland, said: “The Maori word for mental illness is wairangi. I often wonder if some people have Wairangi Day, not Waitangi Day”.

The events leading up to Waitangi Day do seem to provide a platform for attention seekers and some nutty stuff. And the media is all ears for anything that can be reported as nutty, disruptive, disrespectful – the negatives are certain to be amplified.

Labour on drilling – Yeah, Yeah-Nah, Nah

There has been many confusing messages from Labour on oil drilling, ranging from Yeah! to Nah! with a number of “yeah, nah” in between.

Another Labour statement on oil drilling yesterday, yet another vague position. David Parker has sort of clarified but also added to the confusion over Labour’s position on deep sea drilling. Especially confusion over Shane Jones’ promotion of drilling, seemingly supported by Andrew Little, which seems at odds with a number of colleagues.

Summaries of positions:

David Cunliffe – yeah, nah: “We are not opposed in principle”, “we’d get the standards in place and then we’d take them on a case by case basis“.

David Parker – yeah, nah: Labour supports Anadarko’s drilling, would not close down existing consents, “all future consents will require to be at world’s best practice if they are to get approval”.

Shane Jones – Yeah!: says Anadarko has a statutory right to be there, “we mustn’t assume that Anadarko doesn’t have the necessary expertise on hand”, “if oil is discovered we can use that to benefit New Zealand and create job opportunities for our young people in this industry”.

Andrew Little – yeah: Toured Taranaki in July talking to the oil industry with Jones who was reported saying “Offshore oil and gas drilling was an essential feature of domestic and export growth and businesses and enterprises enabling it would get full government support.

Moana Mackey – Nah!: Appears to back protesters and said the regulatory environment under which Anadarko was permitted to drill was “deliberately permissive” and the process had been a shambles.

Phil Twyford – Nah: “protesting at the Government’s reckless promotion of deepsea drilling”.

David Shearer – alternatives policy: Is Labour’s Energy and Resources spokesperson “renewables – the way of the future for a clean and clever country like ours”, clean energy versus fossil fuel industries is a “logical choice” and aims to make it policy.

Green Party coalition partner – NAH!

Details of these stated positions:

NZ Herald reports: Labour split on deep sea drilling:

Mr Parker said Labour did support Anadarko’s drilling.

“It’s legal and we’re not saying we would close down existing consents.”

“I’m not saying Anadarko’s doing world’s best practice because I simply don’t know. What I’m saying is we acknowledge that what they’re doing is legally in compliance with the law but we’re going to tighten the law to ensure that world’s best practice is met and that all future consents will require to be at world’s best practice if they are to get approval.

“The industry tells us they’re confident they can meet that standard. We’re not reversing current approvals or banning duly approved drilling into the future.”

He denied his party’s position had changed.

“Our position is that we’ve been saying that the existing consent processes for deep sea drilling in our view are opaque and lax and it’s unclear that New Zealand’s got the response capacity if something goes wrong.”

David Cunliffe told NZ Herald late last month that Labour’s position was that it would potentially support Anadarko’s drilling if it met best-practice and environmental and clean-up standards, but it didn’t yet.

Cunliffe was pushed by Duncan Garner to clarify his position on drilling and eventually confirmed it was Yeah, Nah for n0w – Cunliffe would stop deep sea drilling.

Garner: So you’d put a moratorium on all deep sea drilling until you were satisfied as Prime Minister.

Cunliffe: No, I haven’t said that Duncan, I haven’t said that…

Garner: You’ve effectively said it…

Cunliffe: I’ve said based on what we currently see in the public domain, I’m not convinced that those standards have yet been met.

Garner: So would you stop deep sea drilling as Prime Minister until you saw something that gave you confidence to let it go ahead?

Cunliffe: Yes we would need see material that gave us confidence on a case by case basis.

Garner: So you would stop it until you saw that?

Cunliffe: We are not opposed in principle, we are absolutely up for a mature discussion with the industry…

Garner: Are you opposed on current standards? And I think this is very important…

Cunliffe: No no, we are opposed to the current standards. The EEZ legislation under which this is happening is currently too weak. We have jettisoned a lot of the jurisprudence under the RMA and it needs to be tightened up.

Garner: Ok, so you’d stop it for now and wait til you could get better standards, local standards that you were satisfied with.

Cunliffe: We’d get the standards in place and then we’d take them on a case by case basis.

Labour’s Environment spokesperson Moana Mackey has contributed to Cunliffe’s anti-drilling position information. In September – Block offer 2014 premature without protections:

“Labour has repeatedly stated drilling should only take place if we have the capability to manage a disaster and once robust safeguards are in place.

Labour’s Wellington MPs are also concerned about the considerable expansion of the Pegasus-East Coast Basin with an area of 75,136 square kilometres now up for consultation.

“A Labour government will ensure there are strong environmental protections and listen to affected communities concerned about environmental risks,” Moana Mackey says.

Stuff reports this week: Drilling could split Labour

But Mackey appeared to back the protesters and blamed the Government for Greenpeace’s announcement that it intends to challenge the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) decision to allow Anadarko to carry out deep sea drilling off the Raglan coast .

She said the regulatory environment under which Anadarko was permitted to drill was “deliberately permissive” and the process had been a shambles.

She also accused the Government of being desperate to expedite deep sea oil and gas exploration because it had no plan B for jobs – which also puts her at odds with Jones, who believes mining is a potential boon for jobs.

From that same stuff report Shane Jones seems to be at odds with Labour colleagues on drilling.

Labour MP has backed oil drilling giant Anadarko in a move which puts him at odds with other members of the caucus, including environment spokeswoman who today called for a slow down in the mineral exploration programme. …

Speaking on Maori TV’s Te Kaea tonight, Jones was outspoken about attempts to stop Anadarko from deep sea drilling and said the protesters should remember that the company had a statutory right to be there.

“Protesters need to bear in mind we are buying oil out of the Gulf of Mexico and other far-flung places when we should be focusing on making an industry in our own country.”

Shane Jones (and Andrew Little) in July – Labour duo keen to talk jobs and growth:

Controversial Labour Party bigwig Shane Jones has moved to position the party well clear of the Greens and their “anti-development” message.

In Taranaki for a two-day visit with party justice spokesman list MP Andrew Little, the regional development spokesman spent much of the first day pow-wowing with oil and gas industry players.

“I am keen to defang these misapprehensions that are abounding that somehow industry has disappeared from our purview.

“Nothing could be further from the truth and if my visit provides the opportunity to reinforce the centrality of jobs, the importance of industry and the need for a future Labour-led government to assuage whatever anxieties might be there in the minds of employers or future investors then I am up for the task,” he said.

Offshore oil and gas drilling was an essential feature of domestic and export growth, Mr Jones said, and businesses and enterprises enabling it would get full government support.

There was an appetite for such growth in Taranaki but the “anti-development” message was strong on the East Coast, where oil and gas exploration is on the increase, and in the Far North, where he was attending an anti-mining hui next month.

David Shearer hasn’t made any media comments as spokesperson on Energy and Resources – http://www.labour.org.nz/people/david-shearer – but he has posted on his Facebook page:

26 October

As Labour’s energy spokesman I’ve had some great meetings with experts in renewables – the way of the future for a clean and clever country like ours.

International research shows that an investment in clean energy creates two to four times as many jobs as the same investment in fossil fuel industries #logicalchoice

He also answered a comment:

Robyn Harris-Iles Make it Labour policy, David!

David Shearer yes, that’s the aim

Phil Twyford protested against drilling last weekend. He tweeted:

I’m at Piha protesting at the Government’s reckless promotion of deepsea drilling risking Gulf of Mexico spill with Dads Army response capacity

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 262 other followers