Rachinger previously

Following from the previous thread on Ben Rachinger I’m tracking backwards, recording this in case it disappears.


Standard operating procedure worldwide, attack the whistleblower & family, or set up honeypot trap.

Ben Rachinger:

Oh I know this one well.

I’m estranged from my parents since police came to the door looking for Rawshark. In October.

Well before I ever said anything publicly. Imagine senior cops at your old and conservative parents door.

As for honeypots…. I’m not a bee anymore and I know exactly what I’m doing. Estrangement radicalised me

Police thought you are Rawshark – morons.

Ahhh it’s more than that but nothing I couldn’t handle. I.e. Please report on all your friends.

Police were alright. Just the system we live in.


It’d be amazing if Kiwis started talking about what they want in a new Political Party/System instead of giving the stagnant ones airtime.

About to school y’all why you should never play Mutually Assured Destruction with someone who doesn’t like power, money or living like you!

I first had interactions with C Slater in early 2014. I made the “Smoke and Mirrors” video series and he blogged them

I then subsequently was involved in discussions with C Slater about joining Freed Media, his new venture.

As a member of the inner circle of the Dirty Politics crew, I was privy to a lot of information. Bad quality but

I should have prefaced this with a NB. NB. Cameron Slater has been good to me at times. This dump isn’t about him. No low hanging fruit.

Anyhow, that’s just establishing my bone fides. I’m taking you down, Key. Your shit stinks and I’m not tolerating it any more

At some point I’ll tell you what the going rate for inter-party hacking and website takedowns is. Also who in MSM and Left is complicit.

This goes out to all my friends, allies and those who walk in solidarity. Im finally manning up

Farrar. Looking forward to showing New Zealanders about you, the Man who the PM thanked on election night. Sunlight is a beautiful thing

Even though the NZ Police came to my door… It was on 3rd party info. I have nothing against the Police. Unless they protect corruption.

It’s embarrassing how long NZ was prepared to let this shit go on for, don’t you have better ambitions for your children’s futures?

This is what my encrypted messaging app looks like (some redacted). Yeah. That’s right.

Embedded image permalink

And so it begins.

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I thought about leaking to a MSM journo but after checking the files, I could only find two that were clean. Can you imagine that problem?

People are never satisfied. Never.

Hey Mr Farrar, , got anything to say about this? Before I comment.

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Ok, I’ll comment The fuck planet are you living on dude. You think you and John rule us? State hacking on cits? Looked like it.

Parliament needs to be dissolved. This year.

Fair warning on my ambitions.

I haven’t even started on the ‘hostage’, the ‘blinded trust’ or the Left yet.

You have been lied to. Extensively. Knowingly. Fuckthatyes

Hey Trotter, you sweating yet brah?

Q: Who told Slater about a “left conspiracy” to have him suicide/anhero?

A: Chris Trotter

Solution: Fucking prove it, Trotter.

I could have called myself Rawshark or some fancy name and dumped this on you…

Or I could just be Little Old Me. No masks, no drama.

why have you chosen the whale over say, the bomber or Andrea Vance? – genuinely interested

Feb 16

Bomber is easy to pen and easier to understand. He’s essentially neutered. Vance, I cover later. She is NOT pure as snow.

haha interesting times indeed! Wouldn’t have thought of WhaleOil as a beacon of morality?

Haha he’s not. But he knows the really bad people.

Does Cam have stuff on Farrar & Key? Or just the left and MSM? Anywayz, thnx for the follow! I eagerly await whatever’s coming

On everyone. Hopefully he mans up and we clear the field.

Back to the main thread:

If its really an issue, someone else will take it up.

Goodnight, fragile and apathetic folk.

And following that: Ben Rachinger versus Cameron Slater

Ben Rachinger versus Cameron Slater

Ben Rachinger launched into a tweet storm today that raises some interesting issues in relation to Cameron Slater, Whale Oil and Freed.

I don’t know what of this is accurate or relevant so may edit later.

B3n RⒶching3r

So only Labour and Nats are going to be on Spy Review Committee? No small parties? Ok, that’s great. Let’s talk about Labour and Nats then

I can do the story with a foreign journo and have it published in a VERY reputable and respected International publication.

This is how I imagine certain people looking at me right now

Alright. So late last year, as part of the talks to work for Freed, I was invited out to the Estate of Mr Tony Lentino, Owner of Instra.

I was introduced to Tony via Cameron Slater. Tony is a genius and quite a mans man. I like him. I’m just going to summarise outcomes.

Tony, Instra/Super Black Racing/OnlyDomainz owner, was the one who bailed out when he was raided and has assets seized.

Specifically, Mona ( wife) came to Tonys house and begged for money for her kids and rent payments. Tony, top bloke, agreed to it.

When I say loan, I mean like $250,000 loans. So Kim had money quite soon after his arrest. Did Kim sort his own guys out? Like Finn? Guess.

Everyone that hates but loves makes me ill to my stomach. Kim is a piece of shit. Nazi regalia collection, snitch…

But Kim didn’t deserve to be raided and have kids frightened. No one does, really. Which is the crux of problem. Why do we allow this? Why?

Everybody mad atcha boy Ben today.

For a deaf guy, I so enjoy some music ;)

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood

And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;

Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!

Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—

I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Frost – The Road Less Taken.

Have a good arvo Tweeps.

Cam and Co. I’ve got a collection of all your socks and puppets. Here and on your site. Grow a pair and come frontally.

Because I’ve been nice to you and that can stop right now if you want to dance. Right now. Your choice, WhaleOil and crew.

.. Seriously, you support racist and mysoginistic pieces of shit. I would enjoy it.

Alright. Gloves off because Whales using socks to come at me. I was so fair to you. That ends now, brother. Think you’re hard? Let’s see :-)

Alright so this was some of the messages I had from Whale last night.

Embedded image permalink

I am known as someone who knows about network and computer security, in some circles. You get offered jobs. Would you like to hear about it?

I was offered $5,000 and bonuses to hack The Standard and pull out the authors list and keep a Backdoor in. I did not. Now you know.

If that’s true – and it wouldn’t surprise me – it would make Slater a major hypocrite with all his complaining about being illegally hacked and claiming he doesn’t do anything illegal.

But it also wouldn’t surprise me if this is made up to try and dump on Slater.

Lynn Prentice responded:

Should have taken the money. A pile of aliases, a few real names, and redirected gmails. Would need 4 computer hack to hide

Rachinger’s response:

I’m pretty good. Would have phished and social engineered my way to the target. Totally illegal though, Mr Prentice.


Yeah right! You’d access from a 56yo old programmer on the nets and politics since before you were alive. Wrong skillset…


Why is there a redirect to Labour site on your server? Mitigate DDoS? Hosting? Genuinely curious.


But hey. If you have any hard evidence of Blubberboy offering, I’ll show you the system in exchange. Prison calls for him.


I respect my adversary though. His name is Cameron Slater and he is furious a deaf, brown kid is not afraid of him and the DP crew.

And the thread continues:

Lefties need to clean their house. Right wingers need to grow a pair and sort their elites out. Kiwis need to wake up and Stand Up.

Let’s get in even more trouble Ben. Sorry, I couldn’t stand by and let Hager be jailed. I said what I had to say.

Embedded image permalink

I’ve never met Hager. But the thought of the Govt gunning for him like this makes me mad. I’m probably going to be arrested for blowing this

It’s been a privilege/honour to go undercover to unmask them. I’ve given you enough to get started. Hopefully I see the tree from this seed.

“I must warn you that the people you’re speaking out against are ruthless, dangerous and powerful”
Yeah, and?

That seems to be it at this stage, Keep an open mind on this. It could mean number of different things.

Mike C says:

Ben Rachinger is very closely associated with Andrew Little and Matt McCarten :)

I don’t know it that’s correct or not.

This comment from Slater yesterday on Facebook may or may not be related:

I’m about done with lying, thieving, disloyal scumbags.

Slater seems to only post links to Whale OIl from his Twitter account these days. He has blocked me from following or viewing his Twitter (that’s futile).

Twitter profile:


Slater still smearing National Northland contender

Cameron Slater has continued a smearing line of attack via Whale Oil on one of National’s nominees to stand in the Northland by-election. This can mean any of a number of things, in particular is it a paid for line of attack?

In contrast David Farrar has listed The five nominees for National in Northland

Mita Harris is the Chair of the Northland Conservation Board. A member of Ngapuhi, he stood for National in 2008. He is involved in numerous heritage, recreation and conservation projects in Northland.

Matt King is a local farmer, businessman and former police detective. He sought the nomination in 2011, and runs a private investigations company.

Grant McCallum is a local diary farmer and an elected board member on National’s Board of Directors.

Mark Osborne is the general manager of the Te Ahu Trust.

Karen Rolleston has stood for National in previous elections. She is the CEO of 3P Learning, and lives in Kumeu.

I’d say Karen and Grant are the front runners but all five candidates are credible and strong, and it will come down to the 120 local delegates, as they meet them and hear from them over the next fortnight.

That’s typical of Farrar’s insight and relative fairness with Party business.

In contrast Cameron Slater continues his dirty smears on one of them in NATIONAL’S NORTHLAND NOMINEES.

When he attacks like this one becomes curious about whether one of the other candidates is paying him to dish out the dirt or if he is just annoyed his client didn’t make the cut.

Or it could be he’s still just feeling dirty about being shunned by National and is lashing out and stiring things up.

‘Rod’ commented:

So National selects its candidates on the grounds of drinking capacity, or whether or not they have the potential to impinge on the careers of others. Silly me, I thought they would be looking for someone who would be a good representative for the people of Northland.

Slater replied:

Every electorate wants the “next PM” or at the very least someone of “cabinet material”.

Mostly they are often very disappointed when the brilliant candidate they thought they selected turns into a bit of a useless twat.

Most electorates will be realistic enough to realise they won’t get rhe “next PM”, and they will know cabinet positions take time and need to be earned.

They will initially want someone who will represent their electorate well, and see where things go from there.

It’s always a lottery choosing an MP (or a party leasder) – they are all untried so it’s difficult to know whether they will shape up or not.

Slater’s judgement on who might turn out to be a useless twat has to be taken with a grain of salt.

He’s not exactly the most useful twat in politics right now.

Ironically Slater posted on Facebook yesterday:

I’m about done with lying, thieving, disloyal scumbags.

I’ve no reason to believe he’s a thief but it’s likely many in National would readily apply the rest of his descriptions to Slater himelf.

Pissing in the begging bowl

Whale Oil Wednesday: We Need a Nudge, Can You Help?

Earlier this month I wrote that I hoped some people would be able to find a spare few dollars to donate to Whaleoil.  December and January have been lean, and the buffer we had built last year has been used up.  To the point where we’re kind of looking forward to seeing donations return to previous levels.

At the time, some people wrote “if you need a hand, just sing out”.  We’re a bit reluctant to (what feels to us like “constantly”) be begging for money, but the truth is that were tight last month, and things are now close to becoming a problem.

We know we’ll catch up soon, and we are working hard with things like the caps and shirts, but, well, to be blunt, there is a serious cashflow problem now.

So here I am, on behalf of the big fella himself – can you please consider chipping in a little?  Even a small amount helps because if everyone just did $1 he could retire…  no, forget I said that.

Whale Oil Thursday: Labour Turns to Crowd Funding

This rather unconventional approach is a New Zealand first.

They have no money.

“Crowd-funding as part of a campaign is a slightly novel approach for us but
one that seems to be working.”

They have no money.

Mr Twyford says Labour is looking to use the crowd-funded money to finance
one full page ad in a daily newspaper but will advertise as much as they
can with the money which comes in.

They have no money.

He says at this point, the campaign has generated a thousands of dollars,
mostly from smaller donations.

They have no money.

But Auckland University senior marketing lecturer Mike Lee says this
initiative seems a bit strange.

They have no money.

So not just politically and intellectually bankrupt, it appears Labour are financially bankrupt as well.

Yep.  They’ve screwed over all their effective donors one by one.

Whale Oil Sunday: Whaleoil T-Shirts sale closing soon

If you haven’t ordered yours yet, you might be running out of time.  So get on with it!

Apart from being a great addition to your wardrobe, it will be an awesome conversation starter.

Equally importantly, these are part of our fund raising drive – it’s a way for us to fund Whaleoil.

So stop sitting on the fence, and orders yours now.

Whale Oil Sunday: Moderator’s Notice

Moderators are noticing a sudden ‘relaxation’ by commenters.  After weeks of minimal moderation, we have major off-topic discussions, discussion hijacking, self promotion, promotion, deliberate profanity, comments that are just links to other sites, one liners that add absolutely nothing, one word(!) comments, 2 letter comments (groan), comments on just about every article and multiple comments per article by the same person, and so on.

We’re going to be handing out some commenting holidays to people who should know better because we’re getting tired of tidying up after some people.

In the past a number of people have complained about being banned from Whale Oil for trivial reasons, so they decided to stop donating to support Pete (Moderator) Belt’s wages.

As a private blog they can ask for donations as much as they like. And they can ban anyone they like. But they risk being seen to be pissing in their own begging bowl.

Whale Oil, Northland, skullduggery

Cameron Slater has an interest in the National candidate selection for the Northland by-election. That’s not surprising, he’s been paid to attack candidates before while backing opponents with money to burn.

Ironically he posts in National’s Northland Selection:

Whatever happens in Northland it will be a fair contest run by a regional chair who is not a member of the bugger’s muddle and will not allow, let alone participate, in any skullduggery.

The regional chair will need to keep an eye on the signs on Whale Oil then.

Making jokes about violence may not be seen as very funny…

The word is that anyone trying any skullduggery will be taken out the back and beaten to ensure the selection is fair.

..given that Mike Sabin’s resignation created the vacancy.

And true to form Slater is already throwing mud of a fairly dirty variety at someone who has announced an interest in standing for the candidacy. I won’t repeat his shit here but it’s typical of his dirty character attack smears – and not just against the candidate, targeting his family too.

It doesn’t take Nicky Hager to write a book to expose dirty politics, Slater seems to think he can still do it openly.

Slater will have to be careful not to reveal which candidate is paying him because that could turn olut to be a toxic touch.

“I don’t owe the National party a single thing”

Cameron Slater at Whale Oil:

I am not beholden to the National party. I’m not a member, and as I said standing on a balcony doing a live interview in Israel…Prime Minister’s come and Prime Minister’s go, long after John Key retires I’ll still be here.

I don’t owe the National party a single thing…it is actually the reverse.

But given there is an ongoing campaign of animosity from the senior ranks of the party frankly they can suffer in the stew of their own making.

Meanwhile I’ll continue to tell the truth whether you guys like it or not.

He doesn’t say what he thinks the National Party owe him.

Pete Belt:

I don’t owe the National party a single thing…it is actually the reverse.

…talk about arrogance!


These comments are on a lengthy post from (presumably) Belt promoting how wonderful and clever Slater and Whale Oil are in FROM THE PASSENGER SEAT: WHY DOTCOM AND KEY ARE THE SAME. Cavalier pointed out the obvious:

No DotCom and Key are not the same. One is a convicted criminal who is wanted on further serious charges and who is here on false pretenses, having deliberately lied on his residence application. The other is a genuine and ordinary bloke attempting to do his best for our country, even though he doesn’t need (and doesn’t take) the money. I can see the difference clearly.

But mostly Belt was angling at Slater versus Key’s National.

So.  Who do you trust?  Cam’s Slater’s judgement on matters political, or what you personally wish to be true based on less and filtered information?

A silly choice. I don’t “wish to be true’ and I am very wary of trusting Slater.

Purely from a practical point of view, National should be concerned with succession planning.  Key won’t last forever.  We only have to look at Labour to see what happens when nobody is ready to take over after a decade of someone who eliminates all the pretenders to the throne.

Slater is feeling highly aggrieved at his own succession planning being dealt a setback. He blames Key for Judith Collins falling from grace but Collins (aided substantially by Slater) has been the architect of her own fall.

Sure John Key will sometime step down or be dumped.

That leaves opportunites for others to rise in his place. Time will tell whether the party or the public will approve of Collins should she rehabilitate, and whether they will tolerate with Slater style political manipulation.

The National Party owes Slater nothing – surely he doesn’t expect a handout of power.

And Collins has to earn her way back into favour, which won’t be easy. Once tainted it is hard to erase the risks.

Poll – Key and Slater

3 News have a poll on whether the public think John Key should keep texting Cameron Slater or not:

  1. No 68%
  2. Yes 18%

National Party members:

  • No 62%
  • Yes 23%

When asked about it Key said it was a 2014 issue and wasn’t important now.

3 News said that it was still important to the public because of their poll result, That’s nonsense – the poll didn’t asked if people thought it was an important issue or not.

My guess is that most people have little idea about Slater and wouldn’t care much about it.

Disturbing threats against Slater

Cameron Slater has a post at Whale Oil that details death threats – SUNDAY AFTERNOON MAILBAG [RAW AND UNEDITED*] –  I won’t repeate them fully raw and unedited here but this is the content from ‘Sam the Man':

Date: Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 1:15 PM

Message: Bro, you’re the fattest, ugliest motherfucker in New Zealand
and I’d love to shoot a Blue Taliban faggot like you right in the guts

1:28 PM

I want to shoot the Police too why don’t you tell them I wrote that so they can bring the Armed Offenders squad? I’ve got two rifles and a decent BB pistol and I don’t mind looking for a target like you in Auckland because you’d stand out so well being a fat guy after all

1:50 PM

Cmon fat guy I’ll fucking slit your throat and fucking film it you piece of fucking shit you’re gonna get what’s coming to you fucking pussy look my name and check my face out real good cause that’s the face of the guy that’s going to murder you

This is very over the top and disturbing, even if it’s just online ‘bravado’. Slater has referred it to the police, which I think is the right thing to do.

This particular person may or may not be serious but it’s a seriously bad thing he’s doing.

Slater pushes more provocative buttons than most but there is no justification or excuse at all for this. This goes way beyond ‘reap what you sow’.

‘Angry Andy’

Cameron Slater continues to push the ‘Angry Andy’ meme amongst his prolific (several posts a day) attacks on Andrew Little. Even when the posts don’t seem tio be targeting Little he gets barbs in, like today in “Independent” political commentator Bryce Edwards has no clue:

“so now the pressure is on Angry Andy”

“Angry Andy is stuffed”

But this isn’t getting much traction. Fair enough to describe someone as angry when they display anger, but to keep claiming something on a daily basis when there’s no sign of it then it just looks tedious.

Apart from Whale Oil repeats the angry meme doesn’t seem to have been picked up anywhere else, but this description came up once in Parliament last November. 3 News reported:

Andrew Little fired up over Dirty Politics

Andrew Little has taken the Dirty Politics debate to a new level.

The new Labour leader told Mr Key to “cut the crap” in Parliament today.

“Why doesn’t he [Mr Key] just cut the crap and apologise to New Zealanders for running a smear machine out of his office?” he said.

That’s been criticised by some but I don’t see anything wrong with it. Parliament could do with a lot more straight talking and crap cutting.

Mr Key has responded, saying it is going to be a “very interesting three years”.

Labour liked Mr Little’s call so much they made an online ad, while Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce created a new nickname for Mr Little.

“He looks a bit like Angry Andy,” he says.

Perhaps Slater has taken that and kept running with itt, but he’s the only one continuing with it.

Mr Little is fuming about Dirty Politics.

“Why won’t [Mr Key] admit the truth – that his office worked with his blogger to use information held by his security agency to attack his political rival, and the buck stops with him?”

But Mr Key said that was not truth.

He is refusing to take responsibility for the way former deputy chief of staff Phil de Joux used inside information from former SIS spymaster Warren Tucker, with Mr Key’s taxpayer-funded dirt-digger Jason Ede working with Slater, who obtained it under the Official Information Act (OIA) to attack then-Labour leader Phil Goff.

“The black ops operator, Jason Ede, two doors down, doing his job, ringing up the bloggers, manipulating the OIA and getting the attack lines out,” says Mr Little.

Slater might want to keep bringing up this sort of history and his links with Key, whikle Key seems to have wanted to distance himself with as little fuss as possible.

But if Slater keeps promoting negative nickname memes through Whale Oil like this then Key is at risk of being seen as associated and tainted no matter how distant he is from the ongoing Whale Oil campaign,

If Little is smart he could use this to his advantage. Not by dredging up ‘Dirty Politics’, but by turning the ‘Angry’ into a positive.

There’s a difference between uncontrolled rage type anger and justified irate anger.

If Little occasionallly displays controlled anger as long as it looks justified then it could work to his advantage. If people feel pissed off about something they won’t mind seeing a party leader pissed off about it, as long as it’s not overdone.

People like strong leaders so this could strengthen Little’s credibility. But he has to get it about right. David Cunliffe’s emotion sometimes looked contrived (along with other things he tried), adding to his difficulties. Phil Goff can sometimes get into extended anger that can go too far.

Helen Clark could effectively display anger without putting on a display. Sometines just a withering look is enough.

Politicians are human. They’re allowed to have normal human emotions, like anger, and it should be fine for them to show it.

So there’s nothing wrong with saying forecfully “I’m bloody angry about this”  (or “cut ther crap”). If you then move on to a suggest some positive alternative action then all the better.

As long as Little doesn’t start throwing microphones across the house in a rage then a bit of hackle with the heckle won’t hurt.


Slater has just posted another attack on Little – Who is Andrew Little? Can Andrew Little Speak Under Pressure? Slater is trying to put pressure on Little but I don’t know if any of it will get through. He continues his meme.

“He gets all angry and shouty and doesn’t look as if he is in control at all”

“He gets angry and shouty, and loses his composure”

He also compares Key to Little – Key after eight years as party leader and six years as Prime Minister, versus a rooky.

The key will be comparing them during the campaign in 2017. Little has time, but he’s got a lot to learn.

The Blubble

Whale Oil run by Cameron Slater was a ground breaking blog – over the top nasty at times but very successful at attracting attention and also did well at breaking stories.

For reasons that are still unclear in the middle of last year draconian moderation transformed the blog. Alternate opinions and colourful opinions were banned out of the blog. Vibrancy vanished.

Whale Oil morphedn into what is now little more than a blubber bubble, or blubble.

This is largely attributed to chief ‘moderastor’ Pete Belt, presumed to be due in part to Slater being too busy on other things to play an active role. But Slater has let it happen and played a part, so the responsibility is his – unless he’s under orders.

The posts are now mostly repetitive trivia.

And the comments threads rarely raise themselves above the praise of puppets.

Ex-Whale Oil insider ‘TravDog’ commented here recently:

I read the blog for the first time in ages today, and had a look at the post about the boxing bout. It’s not until you’ve gone away for a while and come back to realise how deluded and psychophantic and gushing some of the readers are. People trade in their dignity and nearly trip over themselves in awe to fawn over a blog and a human being. It’s a bit sad.

Yes it is a bit sad to see it reduce to Slater and the psychophants.

And ‘Sponge’ sums things up well:

I don’t despise him. There are very, very few people in this world I despise.

However I think Belt has overseen and greatly contributed to the demise of WO as a serious blog. While the stats may show growth I feel that it is despite, rather than because of, his involvement. If it was not for “Dirty Politics” and the resultant publicity I think that the stats would have been plummeting. You can see the desperation in some of his posts (especially about the concrete cancer issue) to be taken seriously as media. Cleaning up the language worked well and I will admit I had my misgivings about that but the massive censorship of dissenting opinions that started a few months ago just killed WO as a worthwhile place to visit and I place the blame for that squarely at the feet of Belt. WO used to be a fairly visceral place but by god it was good. Now? Just an echo chamber.

I have no problem with Cameron Slater as I feel he has been taken for somewhat of a ride by Belt. Also he has always been pretty respectful to the commenters on the site – unlike Belt who is downright condescending to the very people that used to keep that site worth visiting.

I don’t think that’s quiotev accurate. Slater used to respect commenters and he championed robust debate. But he built up the forum and then at least allowed it to be decimated, shitting in his own nest.

Commenters with gumption were either banned or blown away by the bull.

Whale Oil is now little more than a blubble (with both Slater and Belt blubbering about their new-found impotence and unimportance).

Either Slater is happy with how it has turned out or he’s powerless to have prevented it. Recovering the mojo looks unlikely.

Slater used to pride himself on being able to dish it out in massive dollops. Expect Angry Ian to be on here wailing about a bit of mild criticism. There’s a similar contrast between WO then and WO now. An opportunity sunk.


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