Lefty blogs – Standard, Daily Blog, Whale Oil

I think No Minister may be a fairly right leaning blog. They too seem to have noticed how anti-National and anti-John Key that Whale Oil has become.


While Chris Trotter at Bowalley is prepared to debate, and Red Alert (the Labour Party blog) is defunct, there’s something in common with a number of the other lefty blogs – they all seem to have an intolerance of views different to their own. That’s not just a lefty blogroll, it’s also a list that contains all the blogs who have banned me (but not No Right Turn bans where all comment except from it’s author is blocked).

Whale Oil, The Standard, The Daily Blog, Dim-Post and Public Address have all had hissy fits at being challenged or having alternatives to their controlled message being expressed.

I’ve never tried commenting on No Minister so don’t know whether their ‘moderation’ is Goebbels inspired or not.

What’s up with Freed?

Very little apparently.

Freed was announced as an online revolution in new media in the middle of last year (July). Cameron Slater at Whale Oil promoted it frequently and loudly. Initially. An imminent launch was intimated on NBR and Whale Oil – Cameron Slater’s next media venture:

[Cameron Slater] will start a news website before this year’s general election.

Mr Slater will not confirm Mr Lentino’s involvement but says one private investor has contributed a six-figure sum for the site.

Last October Slater quoted Martyn Bradbury…

With Slater about to launch next year a new weaponised news media ‘Freed.co.nz’ complete with a drone operator, he will bend and push the boundaries of attack blogs into a whole new realm of horror. How will the left blogosphere compete with a $600,000 right wing attack blog is yet to be seen.

…and responded:

$600,000? That isn’t even 7 figures…WRONG again.

But things have gradually gone quiet. The Freed website was last updated in January:

FreedWebsiteThey’re not live yet. On Facebook they had a flurry of activity in late January:


Nothing since February 2. Twitter is very similar with the same content as Facebook.

FreedTwitterAgain nothing since 2 February.

Cameron Slater frequently promoted Freed, and this was often associated with criticism of old media, especially his nemisis NZ Herald. In this slam of the Herald on March 22 –  WHO ARE THE HERALD WRITING FOR, EXACTLY? - he didn’t mentioned Freed but was asked about it in comments.

I am waiting to be Freed. How much longer do I have to wait?

  • Avatar

    We will launch when we are ready, not a minute earlier.

On March 15 ‘Spanish Bride (Slater’s wife) made a comment about “Freed on the horizon”:

The interview was about his charity work and he spent ages talking about that ( none of which was used ) I believe their intention all along was to get a sound bite about the word Scum. They had no intention of promoting Kidscan. 
We have always know that with Freed on the horizon things would get hostile but it is a pity when they couldn’t at least mention Kidscan in the T.V interview as after all it was the only reason he allowed the ‘ Scum ‘ LOL to interview him.

The last Slater post to mention Freed was over a month ago (February 24) with a passing mention at the end of DID ALISTAIR THOMPSON RIP OFF SELWYN PELLETT TO THE TUNE OF $250K:

As tempting as it is to gloat over their misfortune, we all want online news to be a success. But if Scoop’s old model sucked and was a failure, does that suggest a better way is out there, with people waiting to be Freed from the appalling tactics of established paper based press and unethical people such as Alistair Thompson?

There’s been occasional comments from the fan club in comments included queries about when Freed will be launched but  they usually go unanswered.


 My brand is so repugnant that I continue to build an ever-increasing audience.  But hey, don’t let facts get in thew way of trying to damage Freed by association.

The Dominion Post reaches nearly half of Wellingtonians aged 15 years and over and has an average daily readership of 234,000 people aged over 15.

I just have a little old repugnant blog with a similar following Tracy.  Wait until we start Freed!

I have something on most people Tracy.  The thing is, your colleagues used to quite enjoy it when they phoned me to ask what the ‘latest’ was, and were quite happy to use my “repugnant brand” for their own purposes.  Now that Freed is on the way, I am a threat to media and must be dealt to.

That’s nearly four months ago. And he last post that seems designed to be a promotion of Freed was October 24 – 5 THINGS ABOUT THE US MEDIA THAT THEY DON’T WANT YOU TO KNOW AND NZ MEDIA ARE SIMILARLY IN TROUBLE:

I think in New Zealand this number probably isn’t quite that bad.  But the trend is there.  Time for Freed.

Those are fascinating numbers.  It means that the news media are disconnected from their audience.  Time for Freed.

Journalists have been speculating about Freed being New Zealand’s “Fox News” in a pejorative sense.  The problem for them is that the public don’t share the joke.   Time for Freed.

People are begging for reporting.  Real reporting.  And they still want opinion too.  They just don’t want it mixed up.  They don’t want journos that are bigger than the story.  They don’t want the opinion to be more important than the facts.   They want to be Freed.

Blogs like Whaleoil fill a gap.  But what is still missing is a place where people can get the news.  They don’t actually feel they can get the news.   They want to be Freed.

Those links all point to the now stagnant FREED.NZ website (see above).

So promotion of and comments about Freed seem to be fizzling out. Time will tell whether the project is fizzling or they are keeping things under wraps until a big launch. Sometime. Maybe.

Slater’s main project so far this year seems to have been his boxing “journey” which ended up flat on the canvas.

Is that where Freed is headed, before even making it into the media ring?

For more details further back see my January post Freed from what?

The Whale Oil agenda

I’ll use the name ‘Whale Oil’ at times here because it’s difficult (or maybe not) to know who has written posts under the name ‘Cameron Slater’.

Since the publication of Dirty Politics, the demotion of Judith Collins and the isolation of Slater from John Key and most of the National caucus Whale Oil has adjusted it’s main agenda.

A number of times Whale Oil has pointed out that Prime Minister’s come and go but Whale Oil is in politics for the long game.

Now it looks like Whale Oil and it’s preferred MPs don’t have much influence or future under Key the best way of shortening the long game is to shorten Key’s tenure.

This could be achieved by helping force Key to resign. Otherwise it means accepting a Labour led government for a term and getting National back in with the right (and further right) MPs in positions of power, preferably as PM.

Over the past few months there have been many posts at Whale Oil that have criticised and tried to discredit the Key Government and anyone deemed loyal to Key, including Bill English and Steven Joyce.

The agenda seems to have kicked into another gear spinning off the Northland by-election debacle.

Whale Oil often tries the mass and persistent post approach like this cluster so far today:

The Queensland Premier is going to expel the wife-beating MP, even though that will threaten her razor-thin majority.

A totally different approach to the “Allegations? What allegations? I can’t heeeeaarrr you lalalalala” Key strategy on Sabin.

Northland was a disaster, one which Joyce, de Joux and Bennett have to own, and unfortunately some of that dung flying is going to splatter on the front of John Key’s shirt…he is the boss after all.

Note not just current enemies Key and Joyce but future competition Bennett.

But National will not gain another list MP to compensate for the loss following the shock resignation of Northland’s former MP Mike Sabin.

This is the result of Steve Joyce’s brilliant Northland strategy…and for some reason he is being protected.

MPs and Ministers have been sacked for less.

Caucus tomorrow will either be a slug-fest or Silence of the Lambs…if MPs sit there and take the excuses and don;t say anything then they have resigned themselves to a loss in 2017 and the demoralisation and rot really will have set in.

A party in good heart will have a big donnybrook, and some claret will get spilled and a solution found for the way forward. Anything else will show that National’s caucus are more like Pavlov’s dogs than anything else.

Trying to talk up “a slug-fest” and “a big donnybrook”, ironic after the weekend’s very one-sided and brief boxing bout.

This is the most significant political defeat Mr Key has ever faced. He’d warned his politicians last year not to succumb to third-term arrogance.

But that is what this looks like. National assumed it would have Northland in the bag so it put up a novice candidate.

It’s a tough lesson for the Government. It’ll be rubbed in on Tuesday when Parliament sits again.

Quite a theme developing, even on posts not immediately obviously on the same agenda..

John Key and Steve Joyce need to start showing something other than arrogance…or things are going to go from bad to worse really fast.

Like in a slug-fest in caucus tomorrow?

But this sort of complacency is bred by arrogance…and if they haven’t learned from the shellacking Winston Peters handed out to them on the weekend then there is more pain to come.

John Key is a fool if he thinks that he can be “philosophical” over the result. He can’t.

I share some of these views – but I’m not promoting a faction of National.

A “reader”? I wonder which reader.

Following Mike Sabin’s resignation for “personal reasons” an astute opposition would be asking John Key is he protecting any other MPs or Party office holders who have suppression orders over criminal acts?

There is no excuse for covering up criminal acts or even unconscionable ratbag behaviour, and John Key would have a huge problem if he has covered up any other offenders.

It’s not clear if this is promoting some new dirt or if it’s part of a long-running campaign against a certain party official that has clashed with the Slater dynasty.

Expect a barrage like this to continue, possibly for days, or weeks. Whale Oil tends more towards persisent than subtle.

Is this opportunist off the by-election debacle?

That’s where things get interesting. One of a number of National’s mistakes in the by-election was their choice of candidate. Many of asked how on earth they selected such an ill-suited person as Mark Osborne.

It almost looks like self-sabotage.

There was a sub-agenda running on Whale Oil during the selection process – a dirty personal campaign against one of the favoured candidates. Personal and very dirty in what is usually a no-go area in politics, involving the person’s family. The target ended up not being selected.

Curiously despite those pre-selection attacks Whale Oil chose to wait until after the by-election to dump on Osborne.


Mark Orborne was, is and remains seriously out of his depth.

Sadly, you’re not up to it.   You’ll go down in history as the man who took a 9300 majority and lost.  Your political career lasted four weeks.  As you’ve discovered, politics is brutal, and you are like a baby playing on the motorway

(That sounds like Slater talking). Why has he waited until afterwards to criticise an obviously ill-fated candidate? Maybe because he was happy to see Osborne stand?

Just after Osborne was selected he got a passing mention in SOME THOUGHTS ON WINSTON AND NORTHLAND:

TV3 commissioned this poll literally just hours after Mark Osborne had been selected for National. He is an unknown to the wider electorate.

Most of the post was talking down Winston’s chances, like “So will Winston win? Personally I don’t think so” and “Frankly Winston is past it.” But also:

Can Winston win? Of course he can…then watch the political blackmail start…and it won’t be for the benefit of Northlanders.

I presume Winston was the one suggested as a political blackmailer.

But perhaps that’s how Whale thinks about politics. And not necessarily be for the benefit of National.

And while I was putting together this post there’s another post at Whale Oil.

What is interesting is that there are complaints from inside caucus that they had to fund the campaign but they were not given any information about the polls.   

They picked up information through back channels and this blog, but the campaign team decided against sharing them with the people who paid for them.

Having a centralised campaign team that taxes electorates to fund their campaign is ok as long as you keep winning.

When you lose a race you should have won, and lose it through making stupid, unforced errors, your supporters start looking at you pretty hard.

And they want answers to how you are using their money, and why you keep taxing them without sharing information.

Factional agendas played out on public forums can be interesting. Factionalism was a major factor in keeping Labour out in the political wilderness.

It can also be a sign of a failing Government as self-interest and survival kicks in.

Publicly stoking factionalism can also be a way of speeding up failure.

Who knows if this is the Whale Oil agenda?

UPDATE: they’re coming thick and fast today:

The teflon has worn off the Key frying pan and now stuff is starting to stick…it might have taken 8 years or so, but it is happening. To deny it is foolhardy.

That’s ten posts (at least) on a common theme today.

Is the Key Government terminal?

All Governments are terminal, their demise is inevitable. But once they start to look terminal then the voters are likely to be getting close to terminating their tenure.


Cameron Slater is very pissed off about being marginalised by John Key and the national organisation, and he’s pissed off his leader of the future Judith Collins was smacked down (in reality her actions last year looked terminal, her demotion was if anything overdue).

But he’s been around politics since he was a boy so knows a bit about it outside his personal ambitions. Yesterday he posted THE WANING OF KEY’S NATIONAL: THE ARROGANCE AND IRONY.

That title has it’s own irony given Slater’s own arrogance and his waning influence. But there’s some truth to some of what he says about Key’s Government.

They are now disconnected from real people.

When John Key is out there, he only sees crackpots and sycophants.  He’s had so much of it, he can’t even recognise when someone turns up with something genuine and important.  The same for his MPs.

Worse, factions that have always existed in caucus but were all working together have now changed to work on their own medium and long term aims.  The PM and his dream team are no longer told the truth by MPs.  If there is anything that can help John Key, he’s not told if it comes from a faction that doesn’t want him to know.

He’s now surrounded by people that he trusts, because they have delivered the goods previously.  But he doesn’t realise that it is much more subtle than that.  Previously, when someone in another faction saw that the PM might trip up on something, they would have warned him.  But now, they’ll just keep silent and let him trip up.

Sabin is a case in point.  If we are to believe John Key, and let’s assume he doesn’t lie for a moment, he didn’t know there was a problem.   Everyone else was keeping this information from him.  He’s either incredibly incompetent, or he was set up to fail.  And we know he’s not incompetent.

There is a lot of soft information that is swirling around all the time, and if you’re disconnected from it, you start flying politically blind.  We’ve seen it with Cunliffe.  We’re seeing it with Andrew Little.  And now we’re seeing it with John Key.

John Key has isolated himself, not just from me, but from many other voices that he previously allowed to come through.

Nobody told him what to do, but at least he had the wealth of information to consider when picking a path.

These days, he listens only to a few people, and asks questions through polls.   Problem with that is that unless you ask the right questions, the answers aren’t worth much.

For John Key fans, this is particularly sad news.  He’s been the garlic to the Leftie vampires, and we all get a bit nervous at the though that Johnnie the Leftie Slayer has lost his touch.   The stability we’ve felt for the years is now crumbling, and we don’t know what will happen next.

There’s certainly signs of crumbling. It may not be terminal, but once the crumbling sets in it’s difficult to reverse, especially when there seems to be a lack of awareness of the problems.

I’m sorry to tell you that the rot cannot be reversed.

There can be partial reversals but overall It can’t be reversed from the minute a new Government takes office. Minor ups and downs eventually become a death rattle.

It’s a matter of time, specially how long the can keep recovering from setbacks largely of their own making.

Even if everyone involved intellectually acknowledges it, it has a momentum of its own.  It is part of a cycle.  Just as David Cunliffe could not prevent what happened to him, John Key cannot prevent what is to happen to him.

There will be an end to it – be it in months or years.  We all know it can’t last.   But we need to look beyond it, and worry about succession planning.   Labour have been a brilliant example where Helen Clark left such a vacuum that Labour have still not recovered from it nearly a decade later.

This is where Slater’s agenda kicks in. He wants his own pet politicians (clients) to come to the fore in succession planning. He wants to be a person of political influence again – without being elected.

Slater often says that Prime Ministers come and they go but that  he’s in it for the long haul. He may or may not recover his mojo. Same for Judith Collins who mayh struggle to recover from the taint of her association with him.

But regardless of his ambitions and ego the terminal aspect of John Key’s Government is not just starting to look terminal, they don’t seem to be able to shake the death rattle.

Key may not be good at hammering nails in election signs but the signs are he’s hammering nails in his political coffin.


John Key hammering a nail – is this a sign?

Blogs on cricket

While Cricinfo is the go to place online for following cricket there’s better opportunities for discussing games. Twitter and Facebook are busy with big game comments.

How did New Zealand’s political blogs deal with yesterday’s cricket?

Whale Oil:


The Standard:

(a couple of comments in Open Mike)

Public Address:

The Daily Blog:

Has Slater breached suppression, and can Freed trust him?

In a post on Whale Oil today Cameron Slater must have come very close to breaching a suppression order, or blatantly breached it (I’m not sure of the legal specifics. I won’t link to it here to be safe.

It was so risky head moderator Peter Belt shut comments and posted this comment saying he “expressed my displeasure at this article to Cam last night”.

[MOD] Every time there are posts like this, I end up banning people. If you can’t play the game, then just pass these sorts of articles by. For the record, I expressed my displeasure at this article to Cam last night. Guess what? It’s his blog, and I don’t have the final say. I think it’s a stupid piece to write, and all it does is makes work for me and the other mods, “good” people end up being banned because they blunder into our no-tolerance on name suppression issues enforcement, and it attracts a wave of trolls that (generally successfully) manage to tip veteran commenters into making mistakes.

I get this wrong, and we face a $100,00 fine and/or 6 months in jail. That’s MY perspective. If you can’t figure out how to comment on posts like this PASS THEM BY.

Finally, this is Cam’s blog, and when the National Party in a number of it’s guises shit on him from a great height, I can’t blame him for acting on that. Most of the time he’s a bit more subtle than today, but I think there is a message that is being sent that probably has nothing to do with you, our readers.

I’m closing this article to comments, because I have work to do.

So he was concerned about the content of the post. I’m not surprised. But it became bizarre when he warned and banned commenters for also risking breaching the suppression.

Belt has already fundraised to help pay Slater’s legal bills.

It looks like quite a few comments could have disappeared since they were posted.

But before he closed comments Slater posted a few of his own.

I owe National nothing…I’m not even a member. I call things as I see them…this is just one such thing that I think needs attention.

I am not a sycophant and never will be.


They can think what they like. I know what is reality. I am not in control of the feeble minds of others.

This on top of recent posts and comments where Slater has made it clear he does as he pleases and is not controlled by anyone I would suspect Freed is more than a little concerned about the risks of an uncontrolled beast if they ever get around to launching.

Who owns Whale Oil?

There’s been curious goings on at Whale Oil over the last year, particularly involving finances and the role of Peter Belt.

Belt took over management, and has often been involved in seeking donations and running fundraising schemes involving merchandising directly or via Trade Me.

Belt also launched a purge of commenters for often seemingly trivial and sometimes ridiculous things. This abated  when the blog activities stalled somewhat, but many people have deserted even when offered ban amnesties.

So there has been speculation about exactly what degree of involvement Belt had in Whale Oil. His wage seems to be on the line but is there more he has at stake?

Today on a grizzle post Apparently all of you are “nutjobs and losers”

 The Rural News column “The Hound” thinks all of the readers of this site are “nutjobs and losers”.

…was this wee conversation (the Pete is Pete Belt):


Nothing was asked about it on General Debate.

Take from that whatever you like.

But it seems an odd thing for an employee to say, even in jest.

Whale Oil’s friends

Whaleoil’s monthly stat report gets mixed up amongst their advertising.


Apart from being friendly with Russian Women note the hard times story.

Especially those of you who chipped in when the Slater family were living on ramen noodles and tomato sauce sandwiches…*

Whale Oil has coined and promotes a phrase “Pimping the Poor” so that’s a bit ironic.

They have been busy fund-raising for a few months, asking for donations (usually with wee sob stories like this), plus promoting merchandise including T shirts, caps and recently hats.

Despite the ‘vineyard hat’ impression times are obviously tough on Whale Oil.

And no sign yet of the promised revolution in media, Freed (no new action there).

Whale Oil grew rapidly, as did their ambitions – and their costs and financial commitments. Then they hit trouble and seem to be having difficulty weathering the storm.

Their friends may be getting weary and wary of contributing.

Hard to spot way down the bottom:

* artistic license may have been used

Blog rankings February 2015

February is a short month and the political year has just been cranking up. Blog stats at Open Parachute generally reflect this (although Your NZ hit a record high, beating the election months).

Whale Oil Beef Hooked

  • September: visits 3,716,364 page views 5,309,045
  • October: visits 2,008,487 page views 3,275,031
  • November: visits 1,776,421 page views 2,981,810
  • December: visits 1,764,050 page views 2,999,841
  • January 2015: visits 1,549,207 page views 2,771,035
  • February 2015: visits 1,697,269 page views 2,947,932


  • September: visits 695,190 page views 1,093,806
  • October: visits 373,637 page views 604,405
  • November: visits 301,119 page views 522,519
  • December: visits 278,787 page views 515,827
  • January 2015: visits 232,512 page views 447,489
  • February 2015: visits 299,472 page views 541,919

David Farrar was away on holiday in January and not posting for about a week.

The Standard

  • September: visits 429,438 page views 868,342
  • October: visits 255,449 page views 561,703
  • November: visits 194,646 page views 431,100
  • December: visits 182,211 page views 392,090
  • January 2015: 163,164 page views 356,129
  • February 2015: 189,833 page views 417,128

March may suffer unless they find someone else to obsess about in my absence (TIC).

The Daily Blog

  • September: visits 504,304 page views 813,779
  • October: visits 210,877 page views 347,647
  • November: visits 160,716 page views 259,736
  • December: visits 126,534 page views 203,1264
  • January 2015: 116,155 page views 188,868
  • February 121,994 page views 205,870

Note: not all blogs supply Open Parachute with site statistics, notably Public Address and Pundit.

These are all half or less than their election peaks. ‘Whaleoil Staff’ have posted:

February is always the last month of slow results.  We’re all enjoying the last of the warm weather, and the end-of-day daylight before the clocks go back again.   Various days off with anniversary days and Waitiangi day.  Add that to a short month, and we never get to see the number we expect to see.

Not so here.

Your NZ is more modest overall but is going up. We would easily make the Open Parachute top ten if WordPress stats are equivalent (there’s debate about that). The trend looks good:

YourNZstatsFebruary2015YourNZ (WordPress stats) to February 2015

Time will tell whether the record high in February is a temporary bump or if it’s a trend upwards.

So thanks to all those who come here to read my news snippets and musings, and thanks especially to those who join in the discussions. This is a team effort – your involvement helps me look forward to getting up at five in the morning to add a wee bit to the political discussions.

Open Parachute sitemeter rankings:

Rachinger previously

Following from the previous thread on Ben Rachinger I’m tracking backwards, recording this in case it disappears.


Standard operating procedure worldwide, attack the whistleblower & family, or set up honeypot trap.

Ben Rachinger:

Oh I know this one well.

I’m estranged from my parents since police came to the door looking for Rawshark. In October.

Well before I ever said anything publicly. Imagine senior cops at your old and conservative parents door.

As for honeypots…. I’m not a bee anymore and I know exactly what I’m doing. Estrangement radicalised me

Police thought you are Rawshark – morons.

Ahhh it’s more than that but nothing I couldn’t handle. I.e. Please report on all your friends.

Police were alright. Just the system we live in.


It’d be amazing if Kiwis started talking about what they want in a new Political Party/System instead of giving the stagnant ones airtime.

About to school y’all why you should never play Mutually Assured Destruction with someone who doesn’t like power, money or living like you!

I first had interactions with C Slater in early 2014. I made the “Smoke and Mirrors” video series and he blogged them

I then subsequently was involved in discussions with C Slater about joining Freed Media, his new venture.

As a member of the inner circle of the Dirty Politics crew, I was privy to a lot of information. Bad quality but

I should have prefaced this with a NB. NB. Cameron Slater has been good to me at times. This dump isn’t about him. No low hanging fruit.

Anyhow, that’s just establishing my bone fides. I’m taking you down, Key. Your shit stinks and I’m not tolerating it any more

At some point I’ll tell you what the going rate for inter-party hacking and website takedowns is. Also who in MSM and Left is complicit.

This goes out to all my friends, allies and those who walk in solidarity. Im finally manning up

Farrar. Looking forward to showing New Zealanders about you, the Man who the PM thanked on election night. Sunlight is a beautiful thing

Even though the NZ Police came to my door… It was on 3rd party info. I have nothing against the Police. Unless they protect corruption.

It’s embarrassing how long NZ was prepared to let this shit go on for, don’t you have better ambitions for your children’s futures?

This is what my encrypted messaging app looks like (some redacted). Yeah. That’s right.

Embedded image permalink

And so it begins.

Embedded image permalink

I thought about leaking to a MSM journo but after checking the files, I could only find two that were clean. Can you imagine that problem?

People are never satisfied. Never.

Hey Mr Farrar, , got anything to say about this? Before I comment.

Embedded image permalink

Ok, I’ll comment The fuck planet are you living on dude. You think you and John rule us? State hacking on cits? Looked like it.

Parliament needs to be dissolved. This year.

Fair warning on my ambitions.

I haven’t even started on the ‘hostage’, the ‘blinded trust’ or the Left yet.

You have been lied to. Extensively. Knowingly. Fuckthatyes

Hey Trotter, you sweating yet brah?

Q: Who told Slater about a “left conspiracy” to have him suicide/anhero?

A: Chris Trotter

Solution: Fucking prove it, Trotter.

I could have called myself Rawshark or some fancy name and dumped this on you…

Or I could just be Little Old Me. No masks, no drama.

why have you chosen the whale over say, the bomber or Andrea Vance? – genuinely interested

Feb 16

Bomber is easy to pen and easier to understand. He’s essentially neutered. Vance, I cover later. She is NOT pure as snow.

haha interesting times indeed! Wouldn’t have thought of WhaleOil as a beacon of morality?

Haha he’s not. But he knows the really bad people.

Does Cam have stuff on Farrar & Key? Or just the left and MSM? Anywayz, thnx for the follow! I eagerly await whatever’s coming

On everyone. Hopefully he mans up and we clear the field.

Back to the main thread:

If its really an issue, someone else will take it up.

Goodnight, fragile and apathetic folk.

And following that: Ben Rachinger versus Cameron Slater


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