It’s no wonder Labour is in trouble

Attention has been given to a group of people with an interest in Labour wanting to set up a ‘think tank” to broaden discussion within the party.

Another person with a close interest in Labour, Greg Presland, blogged on this asking Is this progress?

Richard Harman has blogged on Politik on proposals for a right wing third way think tank being formed in New Zealand.  The think tank is apparently to be modelled on the British Organisation Progress which is a UK based think tank associated with the Labour Party espousing a Blairite third way approach to politics.

Those linked include Stuart Nash, Josie Pagani, Nick Legget and Phil Quin.

Presland concludes:

Apart from an obvious philosophical difference the most frustrating thing for me with a Blairite third way approach is its insistence on triangulating issues.  Being a pale insipid pink is thought to be sufficient.

And the basic problem is that the issues that our world face are so huge that a slightly more benign approach is not going to solve them.  How are we going to deal with climate change for instance by making the ETS slightly more efficient?

The last attempt at formation of such a group, the infamous backbone group in the late 1980s ended in the formation of the Act Party.  Harman reported that there was a heated discussion in Caucus about the current proposal.  No doubt some MPs are keen to avoid past experiences.

That’s relatively mild disapproval of wide views and discussion.

There was some support for the idea in comments, but there was also signs an insidious problem that’s frequently on show at The Standard.

Fellow Standard author and another with a close interest in Labour, Te Reo Putake, commented:

In one way this is a good thing; we’ll be able to identify and ignore the people in the party who are the biggest problem. The downside is that it’s just one more place for the msm to go for anti-Labour stories.

It doesn’t sound like The Standard is much of a broad church. It’s parishioners piss on each other.

This is typical of Labour activists like TRP. He (and others) often identifies people he sees as a problem and tries to drive them away from The Standard.

Ironically he also comments:

The difficulty with that is that these people want to continue the failure. They are offering nothing new.

Very ironic. Then:

We’ve lost two elections since 2008 with leaders who broadly support this kind of regressive, righty thinking. We need new ideas, or at least, a return to the old ideas that work.

He sounds confused. Old ideas that may have worked. Last century sometime. And anyone who begs to differed is excommunicated.

In response to “So, Is the party a broad church or not? It does seem so if you want to do away with those who do not agree with you, Karen.”

Yep: The definition: a group, organization, or doctrine that allows for and caters to a wide range of opinions and people. The fact that the people mentioned in the post are in the LP at one end of the spectrum, and the majority of the members at the other, confirms it. Probably applies to the GP as well.

Claiming to represent “the majority of the members” – intolerant of anyone else.

And TRP had recently demonstrated his approach to people he disagrees with.

11 June 2015 at 11:58 am

[Deleted. Take a month off. TRP]

10 June 2015 at 12:36 pm

[“Falsehoods”. “Thrive for accuracy” I have no time for people who accuse me of lying, as you’ll see shortly. The post, like most here at TS, had a short shelf life. It’s prominent position was brief. It was recognised as inappropriate almost immediately. This is a multiple author site and when mistakes happen we work hard to address the issue as quickly as possible. Now piss off for a week for calling me a liar. TRP]


[Nope he was banned for abusing an author and wasting my time. Yours is for questioning the right to ban. Take a day off, felix. TRP]

Hey Putake

Would you mind telling me why the fuck you’ve deleted my comment? I don’t give a fuck about a ban, [Deleted. If you didn’t give a fuck about a ban, you’d respect it. Come back tomorrow. TRP]

With preachers like that in the Labour church preaching hell and damnation to anyone who strays from their narrow ideology it’s no wonder Labour is in trouble.

Like many people I’m an ex-Labour voter. They don’t want me back. They think they can somehow appeal to people who have never liked politics. How those disaffected voters would be attracted to the TRP doctrine of ‘agree or be shat’ on I have no idea.

Leave a comment


  1. J Bloggs

     /  12th June 2015

    How long before Chris Trotter gets his name engraved on the wall of Traitors at the Standard following his latest Bowalley Road post:

  2. rayinnz

     /  12th June 2015

    I think you will find it already is as he backed the wrong candidate for leader a couple of coupe back
    Consequently he is down as a class traitor etc

  3. Pierre

     /  12th June 2015

    It seems to me that there is a group trying to put the ‘think’ into ‘think tank’. Problem is, the Labour party are putting the ‘tank’ into ‘think tank’.

    As they say, grab the popcorn and sit back and watch the show.

  4. Pete, the funny thing is, despite everything you write about TS generally, and me specifically, driving people away, the readership, the number of commenters and the number of comments keep rising month on month. There are hundreds of comments every day on TS and moderation is needed. Life’s too short and if people (as in your examples above) want to argue with and abuse authors and mods, it’ll only end one way. Hopefully one day your site will have a similar level of support and you’ll see what I mean!

    As you know, TS is not a Labour Party blog, so the things that happen there have next to no impact on support for the LP. Or the Greens, mana, NZF etc. It’s just a blog. But a very good one, obviously.

    Cheers, TRP.

  5. Ps, great comment Pierre! Can I use it?

  6. SteveRemmington

     /  12th June 2015

    Te Reo Putake

    If its not a Labour party blog then why does Lyn have a redirect to the Labour site on his server? I assume some type of hosting arrangement?

  7. Can you expand a bit, Steve? Do you mean the ‘party’ drop down on the right hand side of the page? If so, that’s just a link to all left party’s press releases. The Greens are there too. The servers for the blog are in the SYSOP’s whare in Ak. The LP’s servers are in Fraser House, Wellington. There’s no connection between the two.

    ps, have a look at the posts on TS, there’s far more attacking Labour than promoting it!

    • TRP – your PS part makes for interesting reading. I am a middle guy – bit of left and bit of right. One would say that Labour on your comment, and that of its supporters are still far from happy with what they got. Another new leader at some stage? Perhaps the reality is that Key is what Clarke was for the left. Im not that fond of either of them, but 9 years of Clarke showed she had true appeal with the party and voters just as Key does currently.

      • You’re dead right about Clark/Key, my tyrannical friend! They both appeal way beyond the normal base, left or right. And Key is also starting to look tired, as Clark did towards the end. The whole LP is happy with Little, bar a couple of MP’s and moaners like Pagani and Trotter. He’s still got a way to go, but he’ll be leading Labour into the election. And hopefully winning!

        The reason that there are many voices on TS that don’t agree with Labour isn’t dissatisfaction with Little, its because there’s all sorts of people commenting there. Some TS authors are in Labour, some are Greens, some mana and some are politically independent. There’s no ‘party line’ as our host here at YourNZ knows all too well!

        • OK TRP, what % of TS posts would you say are by non Labour people?

          • The majority, Pete. If you want, have a look at the 30 or so posts available on TS’s home page and have a count up. The most commented post at the moment is the Horse. Water one, and that’s definitely not from a LP supporter!

            • kiwi_guy

               /  12th June 2015

              Your major players have Labour Party histories. There is nothing on your site that doesn’t get the Labour Party’s dominant Cultural Marxist faction stamp of approval.

            • That sounds it’s a challenge worth a post.

            • It’s not a challenge, Pete! But, yeah, knock yourself out. I think that the fact you recognise that the author pool isn’t all Labour, at whatever percentage, proves the point. It isn’t a Labour Party site.

            • I’ve never claimed the author pool is all Labour. I don’t think The Standard is a Labour Party site. But it’s fairly obvious the trustees, the authoring and posts are dominated by Labour related interests.

              You can claim ‘not Labour Party’ as much as you like, the reality and a widespread perception is that there’s a significant Labour relationship.

              What surprises me the most is why you keep trying to distance TS from Labour so much. It looks like a vote of no confidence.

              When TS is proudly promoting Labour and when the threads aren’t dominated on ‘seek and destroy’ anyone deemed an enemy of the faction then I’ll have some hope of a sustainable Labour recovery.

  8. kittycatkin

     /  12th June 2015

    What surprises me is that I used to vote Labour and-no, I can’t say it, it’s too embarrassing.

    • I’ve voted Labour in the past too. Last time was 2005.

      After they lost in 2008 I approached them thinking they would appreciate some fresh input from outside the political bubble. They wanted electorate workers but not ideas.

      I went to The Standard thinking that it would be a good place to discuss how Labour might rebuild into the future. Instead I was labelled an enemy and burnt off. And I’ve seen similar happen time and time again. Most aren’t as persistent as me and just piss off, no doubt disillusioned.

      And as this post shows it seems to be the new old Labour way. If you’re not with them you’re deemed against them.

      The problem is they have ended up with more and more against them, and a core of survivors who now think they are the majority because others just can’t be bothered with the narrow minded crap.

    • kiwi_guy

       /  12th June 2015

      I actually voted Labour last election because they were in for such a hiding, and on principle I don’t like to see any party get a massive landslide victory with the hubris that follows.

    • Greg M

       /  12th June 2015

      Me too. for 21 years until 2008 in fact. They left me, I didn’t leave them.

  9. ” I don’t think The Standard is a Labour Party site. ” Ha! Do you not read your own posts, Pete? This very one, for example! It clearly conflates TS with the NZLP.

    And it’s not a ‘vote of no confidence’ to tell the truth.

    Anyhoo, have good one. Ciao.

    • I didn’t say and I don’t believe I’ve said it’s a Labour Party blog. What I say is that it’s widely perceived as connected to Labour, for very obvious reasons.

  1. TRP’s Standard claims | Your NZ

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