Final four flags – online polls

The first flaf referendum will be to choose from the final four alternative flag desigs, but online polls run since the final four were released yesterday also included the current flag.

The four alternative flag designs

NZ Herald:

Which flag design do you like?

  • Silver Fern (Black, White and Blue) by Kyle Lockwood 32%
  • The original flag 28%
  • Silver Fern (Red, White and Blue) by Kyle Lockwood 21%
  • Silver Fern (Black & White) by Alofi Kanter 6%
  • Koru by Andrew Fyfe 4%
  • None of the above 9%

15500–15550 votes

Stuff:

Which flag do you prefer?

  • Keep the current flag (5759 votes) 39%
  • Silver Fern (Black, White and Blue) – Kyle Lockwood (4085 votes) 27%
  • Silver Fern (Red, White and Blue) – Kyle Lockwood (3436 votes) 23%
  • Black and White Fern – Alofi Kanter (893 votes) 6%
  • Koru – Andrew Fyfe (705 votes) 5%

3 News:

Which alternative Z flag design do you prefer?

  • Existing NZ flag (4989 votes) 52%
  • Kyle Lockwood’s Silver fern black and blue (2305 votes) 24%
  • Kyle Lockwood’s Silver fern red and blue (1313 votes) 14%
  • Alofi Kanter’s Silver fern black and white (625 votes) 6%
  • Black Koru (428 votes) 4%

Online polls are indicative only as they are self selecting non-scientific polls but thse give an indication of current levels of support for the alternatives and for retaining thje current flag.

Opinion is obviously quite divided and variable at this stage.

Leave a comment

30 Comments

  1. Traveller

     /  2nd September 2015

    Red, white and blue Lockwood. The black Lockwood one introduces yet another colour and it’s too busy for me. The others are just not in consideration.

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  2nd September 2015

      @Trav

      Yeah … its a no-brainer for me to pick the Red White and Blue Silver Fern as well 🙂

      I don’t understand anyone liking the one with Black on it, because it looks very dark and dull compared to Lockwoods one with the red on it.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  2nd September 2015

        As I said before, Mike, you might change your mind when you see the two hanging limp rather than extended. Then the black one looks a bit better than the other. But I don’t mind which wins. Both are good.

        Reply
  2. There is no doubt that one of the Lockwoods will win the first referendum. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist or a pollster to be able to tell that.

    The other too are so bad (not just in comparison). Instead of picking true alternatives, they picked two dogs to go up against two variations. The whole first referendum could be renamed to “Which Lockwood designs do you like better?”

    And that makes the whole process a bit of a farce. There is no real choice, there is no real alternative to the Lockwood designs. There is no debate about the merit of the different designs.

    I was a staunch supporter of the change and the process, but honestly, the first referendum is now a complete waste of time and money.

    They could have just picked one of the two Lockwoods.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  2nd September 2015

      I wouldn’t be on one of the Lockwood designs winning, they may end up splitting the vote and letting one of the other two through. My boss had a dinner last night and put the four finalists to the vote, he said it confirmed his fear that the Lockwood designs would have a split vote, letting one of the other designs win, which makes me wonder why they included both of them, they should have just gone with one or the other.

      Reply
  3. Brown

     /  2nd September 2015

    Maybe there’s no real choice because it was hard to top the old one? In any case, you will keep voting until you change it. Quick, march.

    Reply
  4. Zedd

     /  2nd September 2015

    so.. those who really want ‘no change’ should vote for the ‘least attractive’ (‘the koru’ rather than no vote) ??

    Reply
    • Pete Kane

       /  2nd September 2015

      Zedd there seems to be a real mixed strategy now. Winston saying mark the ballot in such a way as to make it informal (which is recorded as such) Mallard saying pick the least attractive (Koru in his case – which oddly enough was the least non appealing in my case, wouldn’t want my aesthetic judgement to mirror Mallards). Iwas hoping the no strategy would be consistent.

      Having said that I’ve encouraged nephews and nieces voting for change to make their choice purely on the merit they see in a design sense. In no way should they vote to placate people like me (which I think has influenced aspects of peoples choices, with good will intended, but a misguided approach).

      Reply
      • Pete Kane

         /  2nd September 2015

        Actually should clarify Zedd. There was no planned strategy from the status quo group from the start. I was expecting some sort of umbrella (or co-coordinating) organisation to emerge. but unfortunately (including for a genuine public debate) this hasn’t emerged.

        Reply
    • Mike C

       /  2nd September 2015

      @Zedd

      Be careful what you vote for … because you may end up getting what you voted for 🙂

      Reply
  5. Sponge

     /  2nd September 2015

    All four are bloody awful, unimaginative and uninspiring. As I have seen noted elsewhere they look like logos for government departments. In the referendum I would vote for the worst one (the black and white squiggle thing) in an effort to retain the existing flag however I am concerned that the “change for changes sake” brigade would get enough support for that to end up as our flag. God help us.

    If we are to change our flag the right time would be when we become a republic. Then there is an actual reason for change. The current reasons given for change are spurious and it is far too serious a matter for change just for the sake of it.

    If changing our flag is to be done on the whim of the prime minister then will we end up with a different flag in another 10 years? 15? 30? The whole idea and reasoning is bullshit.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  2nd September 2015

      Tosh. The reason for change is that the present one is neither distinguishable nor memorable and is a colonial relic. None of those reasons will persist once it is disposed of.

      Reply
      • Sponge

         /  2nd September 2015

        Tosh indeed! The proposed ones are meaningless and certainly not memorable. As for the existing flag being a colonial relic – at least it stands for something unlike the meaningless images above. To try to pretend that the colonisation of NZ by the British was some sort of genocidal disaster for this country is revisionist nonsense. The fact is that the Union Jack represents a very significant part of the history of this country.

        What do the proposed ones mean? Bloody nothing. As I said above they look like something that would be flying at Fonterra factories or government departments as logos which would be due for change even 10 years. They will look dated in a few short years and my concern remains that our national flag has become a plaything for politicians.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  2nd September 2015

          I am the last person to argue that colonisation of NZ was genocidal but we are no longer a colony – simple as that. For the rest, taste is personal except when it is political. I think you will be outvoted.

          Reply
          • Sponge

             /  2nd September 2015

            Alan, I think I will be outvoted too. 😦

            Reply
            • Pete Kane

               /  2nd September 2015

              Hope not Mr Sponge. But up against the full power of the Political Executive. Means a lot in this country, no matter who’s in office.

            • Missy

               /  2nd September 2015

              Sponge, I am in total agreement with you on all of your points (hence one post to cover rather than replying to all). The black and white fern one is essentially a Govt department logo, a variant of it used by at least three Govt departments I can think of.

              On your last point, I hope you are not outvoted Sponge, I think it would be disastrous for any of these options to be our flag.

        • Exactly Sponge… the 4 alternatives are just dreadful – couple that with no real need for change and also the fact GB is motherland of this country in all that is important from Parliament, to freedom speech, freedom association, rule of law, the principle language, jeez the list is endless… add it all up and there is no valid reason for change….

          Reply
  6. mike

     /  2nd September 2015

    Hey guys. You may want to know that I had a falling out with a businessman recently who sent some pseudo gang members to contact me, and so I told them and the businessman to piss off. The businessman was trying to claim ownership of something that had been given to me to set off a debt owed to me by a company that he said he was liquidating. Initially this guy tried to claim that he was a lawyer. That businessman was none other than poster Mike C, as he had shown me the identities that he uses on the Internet when he visited websites. A real boasting type of individual, especially when drunk or on gear. After our after hours meeting at my place, I googled him and low and behold I came up with the stories on a web site. Well I can tell you from personal experience Mike C is not the independent innocent individual he claims to be. But his language is similar to the businessman when he is trying to bullshit you. But when he’s pissed or high he’s quite a different character and talks way to much. Can any of the readership guess who Mike C really is?
    [Edit: this comment is totally off topic, and also has signs of being an attempt at a nasty troll. If the person who posted this comment can please contact me to verify some authenticity then I’ll consider appropriateness, but failing that this comment should be viewed with deep suspicion. PG]

    Reply
    • Pete Kane

       /  2nd September 2015

      And this has what to do with flags?

      Reply
      • mike

         /  2nd September 2015

        I thought this was a media blog and not just about its articles about flags that are irrelevant because the old one is going to stay until we become a republic.

        Reply
        • Missy

           /  2nd September 2015

          So you haven’t really read the blog post then, but are commenting on it…. what a dumb***

          Reply
  7. mike

     /  2nd September 2015

    Jesus people are jumpy on this site. I am not a troll, but Mike C definitely is. Has his identity and commentary been authenticated. Happy to oblige authentication iff Mike C does. Mike C knows who I am after all. He drank my booze and told me what a bunch of losers frequented this site. His words not mine. Thats before he turned on me and tried to coerce me.
    [I’ve asked you to authenticate yourself. You don’t get to make demands here. Your comments are highly suspicious for a number of reasons. PG]

    Reply
    • Pete Kane

       /  2nd September 2015

      You really have to broaden stylistically Mike (not Mike C), it’s the same ‘turn of phrase’ I recall from some of your vile attacks on the Craig’s (Colin) marriage here, just a couple of months ago.

      Reply
    • jaspa

       /  2nd September 2015

      Jumpy??? Clearly you haven’t tried the Standard. 😀

      (P.S. the Open Forum would have been the appropriate place to post this, although it wouldn’t be, unless you have any evidence you can share.)

      Reply
    • DaveG

       /  2nd September 2015

      I see the owner / moderator of the blog has given you the opportunity to contact him to discuss the apropriatness etc, a big WOW, what an opportunity to prove yourself. Time will tell,

      Reply
  8. Zedd

     /  2nd September 2015

    @MC
    one second thought.. your right, the Koru might become the ‘popular choice’ BUT the second vote will finalise it anyway :/

    Reply
    • jaspa

       /  2nd September 2015

      If many people are really going to do that, I just hope it doesn’t come back and bite them on the arse.

      However, I think it’s just the usual twitterblitherers that are talking about it. Shouldn’t come to much.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  2nd September 2015

        Though it would be interesting if it was the Koru from the perspective that this whole process appears to be loaded towards the PM getting the flag he wants – a black and white silver fern flag – and if the Koru came through, it would be karma (in my opinion anyway).

        I don’t think the Koru could beat the current flag anyway, so I think (hope) we would be safe if that won the first referendum.

        Reply
  9. jaspa

     /  2nd September 2015

    I am starting to be over this whole flag thing, if people are going to get all silly about it. I have a flag pole, somewhere, an old ship’s mast that I inherited from my father who used to use it to fly his Scottish flags. I shall erect it and fly the Laser Kiwi flag.

    Reply

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