Salmond/Labour view on adding Red Peak

In his weekly media conference yesterday John Key intimated he might consider adding the red Peak flag to the final four designs, providing he gets cross party support (excluding anti-flag change NZ First).

He said it would require Labour to back adding red Peak and to also back the flag consideration process – while flag change has been Labour policy they have been opposing flag change under key.

Labour insider Rob Salmond was quick to reveal his (at least) views on this development on Twitter. It’s reasonable to presume he might have had some communication in Andrew Little’s office.

So every other party – excluding NZ First – need to commit to supporting Red Peak & flag process of law is to be changed.

Bullshit. Key’s got a majority. He can change the law to put in Red Peak all by himself. The buck stops with him.

When was 59 seats out of 121 a majority?

 You’ve got poodles.

Both of them have been pretty yappy and bitey this year 🙂

Clearly Salmond had no interest on compromising to allow Red Peak to be added. To him it was very political.

Waiting on an official Red Peak line from Labour. Andrew Little’s previously said he’s a fan and would vote if it were an option in 1st ref

National can engineer the law change without Labour. They’re the government and all. This is buck-passing, plain and simple.

BUT you guys might accuse him of wasting parliament’s time, is his point. I think.

Well our accusations have never stopped Key wasting Parliament’s time before…

No interest in cross party support.

So if Labour and Greens agree to a law change, Red Peak will be a 5th option in the 1st referendum.

What kind a majority are you looking for here? Nat + ACT + Dunne can do this all by yourselves. So clean up your own mess!

Labour have been active contributors to messing up the flag process so it’s not surprising to see an unwillingness to help tidy it up.

Labour blocks Red Peak inclusion.

Also, I understand Labour’s made a counter-offer – give voters the same options they had in MMP referendum, and is in.

Andrea Vance retweeted Brook Sabin

Right. Labour says no. Now, can we just move the f*** on?

Labour hasn’t said no. I understand Little made a counter-offer.

A counter offer that is effectively a refusal. Labour insisted on not just adding Red Peak but also changing the whole structure of the referendum process despite official recommendations for the existing process that were voted on and accepted by Parliament.

Y’all just missed a golden opportunity to not be dicks

No, they didn’t. They’re trying to give voters the option to say “stop wasting our money” if that’s their wish.

o, the PM just opened up a great big political trap and Labour fell into it. this is so pointless!

PM doesn’t need Labour to do it … which is what Labour shoulda said. instead of this stupidity.

That’s not going to happen tho, all you’ve done is piss off Red Peak people & given Key something else to slap you with.

Yesterday we heard “wasn’t going to happen.” Let’s see how strong Key’s resolve is to deny NZers choice.

Or how determined Labour are to deny New Zealanders choice. It appears that Salmond and Labour rushed their reaction without thinking things through.

But it’s not his resolve. He’s said ok. It’s Labour’s resolve to deny people the choice being tested now

DUDE. It’s you guys that are the road block now. You said NO right off the bat. He will laugh at you.

No. Labour wants NZers to also have a choice, like they had in ’92, to call it off at stage 1 if they want.

And then change the thing to add in red peak and slap you with that too. How many times do you wanna lose?

Labour die NOT say no. Labour said “Yes, if…”

our “Yes, if…” is everyone else’s “No, but…”.

Labour is effectively saying no, and Salmond knows that.

In contrast James Shaw said he liked the idea of adding Red Peak but would need to consult with the Green caucus.

So everyone is now just playing politics with the flag. For a referendum no one cared about, it’s now getting a lot of heat.

Labour isn’t playing politics. It’s just trying to get voters the choice to call the whole thing off if they want.

That appears to be Labour’s aim, to call the whole thing off. While they have supported flag change in their policy they don’t want it happening under Key’s watch.

There’s a lot of Red Peak supporters. Salmond (and Labour) seems to have misjudged how they will view Labours continued spoiling tactics.

Andrew Little has just spoken about this on TVNZ Breakfast and reiterated Labour’s stance, they will only agree to add Red Peak if the whole referendum structure is changed (which will reduce the chances of flag change).

If Labour successfully sabotage this flag consideration process there is no way we will get another chance to consider flag change at least while Little is leader. It will likely be decades before it will be offered as a choice again.

This has wider implications.

If our politicians and parties can’t work together on something as straight forward as considering flag change without making it a political shit fight (and John Key must take some responsibility for that too) then the chances of looking at flag change again in the foreseeable future looks bleak.

And the chances of doing things far more contentions and complex, like considering ditching the Monarchy or working on a Constitution, would be a waste of time.

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16 Comments

  1. Mike C

     /  15th September 2015

    Little is behaving like he is in Government … demanding changing the process.

    The man has delusions of grandeur. LOL.

    Reply
  2. feather ruffler

     /  15th September 2015

    Could this be ‘A fit of Peak’?

    Reply
  3. Kevin

     /  15th September 2015

    If Red Peak gets in then “Kiwi with laser eyes” should get in too.

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  15th September 2015

      @Kev

      If I had to choose between “Red Peak” and “Kiwi with Lazer Eyes”, then I would pick the Kiwi, because even though it looks like it’s been drawn by a five year old … at least it is original and not copied off some American Engineering Company’s Logo 🙂

      Reply
    • 100% Kevin – Kiwi with Laser Eyes for our flag….. it speaks of NZers questing, ground breaking nature and eyes on the future, our glorious scientific past [Rutherford etc]……. ; )

      Reply
    • jaspa

       /  15th September 2015

      Indeed, and the Laser Kiwi would be great for tourism. Who would not feel compelled to visit the country that chose that as their flag?

      Reply
  4. This has been an ego project for JK from the off…. there was no visible, vocal groundswell for change pre this flawed, directive process began….

    And now its turned into a stuff up and schmoozle…

    IF we have a discussion abut a change to a Republic, then a Flag change should be part of that conversation…. right now there is no groundswell for that either…

    Roll on referendum 2 so we can bury this and keep the current flag…

    Reply
  5. Goldie

     /  15th September 2015

    Key laid the trap and Labour dutifully ran right into it. The sheer political incompetence of Labour still amazes me.
    And what is bizarre is that people are openly laughing at Rob Salmond and Labour, and they don’t get it. Which makes it even more funny.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  15th September 2015

      As I said yesterday, Key skewered them with this move. All they can do is squirm on his spear.

      Reply
  6. J Bloggs

     /  15th September 2015

    Labour should stop changing leaders and start changing the layer of advisors and strategists that keep being involved in these stuff ups. Labour needs a bloodbath and until it happens, things are not going to change for them.

    I wonder if it is a side effect of MMP – because candidates are no longer required to win an electorate in order to get into parlaiament, they no longer feel they need to invest both time and money into developing strong support team of trusted people, who should the MP reach the lofty heights of leader, can fill those strategic advisory positions. At the moment, it seems that each new Labour leader is gifted with the same set of Party strategists and advisors who have “fully supported” each of his predecessors into oblivion.

    Reply
  7. kittycatkin

     /  15th September 2015

    Why would anyone want a flag that has been copied from a company logo and would result in endless lawsuits if it was chosen ?

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  15th September 2015

      Because either they have no aesthetic taste, are horrendously stupid, or are politically motivated.

      Reply
  8. I’m confident if the flag is not changed and Labour do find themselves in power, they’ll quickly decide the time is right to change the flag and try to push it through. It’s political games and everyone knows it.

    Reply
  9. Mike C

     /  15th September 2015

    Andrew Little has now decided that he still wants to sit down with John Key to discuss the “Engineering Companys Logo” aka the “Red Peak Flag”.

    Too late Little … that ship sailed yesterday 🙂

    Reply
  10. Pete Kane

     /  15th September 2015

    I thought David Seymour’s contribution to the debate, when asked, quite thoughtful.
    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/WATCH-The-French-love-the-what-David-Seymours-awkward-flag-gaffe/tabid/504/articleID/100102/Default.aspx

    Reply

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