Five choices then two choices

We have now got five choices for a possible alternate flag.

I’ve got mixed feelings about the addition of Red Peak. Overall I think it’s a positive change.

There’s a few negatives, a major one being the precedent set of a journalist/social media campaign overriding the specified process. And it shits on people who might have wanted a different fifth flag but didn’t have the benefit of the media weight that got in behind Red Peak.

But if parliament overwhelmingly votes to add an option then it has legitimacy regardless of how it got into the frame.

And now it removes some of the many grizzles about the flag change process (although it added more, some opposers will never be happy).

The key thing is that Red Peak will only get chosen if it really does have (or gets) enough popular support and gets more votes than any of the other options.

However Red Peak hasn’t won me over. I’d vote for it over our current flag if that becomes the choice but I think that as far as a New Zealand Flag goes it’s bland and anonymous. It doesn’t look ‘New Zealand’ no matter how many ways you try and attach stories to a few coloured shapes.

I still think the silver fern is the most identifiable symbol of our country and should be on our flag. I’d hoped that a Wow! version had emerged from the process as an obvious choice and think we could move on from having the Southern Cross.

But we have the choices we have been given, all five of them.

My preference remains the Lockwood fern with black and blue segments – black is a widely recognised colour in association with New Zealand so I think that should at least be a component of our flag along with the fern.

The red/blue/fern is too similar to the old flag and isn’t a colour combination associated with new Zealand at all.

Of the six options we will have in two referendums the black/blue/silver fern is probably the only one I would buy and fly proudly – possible I would do similar with the black and white fern flag but it doesn’t look like that has a chance.

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21 Comments

  1. The ‘black and blue’ flag isn’t too bad, though I think it sounds better, and is less likely to be incorporated in jokes, if it’s called the ‘blue and black’ flag.

    Does black have any special significance to NZ other than in sports?

    Reply
    • Does it need any? Fern on black also widely used in business and common for tourists.

      And sports is one of the biggest international identifiers any way, showing pride in your country.

      Reply
      • Kerry

         /  27th September 2015

        I love that blue and black flag and will fly it with a huge amount of pride if it becomes our flag. That red peak flag is ok looking but it is utterly meaningless totally void of anything that says New Zealand, I would rather keep the current one than have that thing as our national symbol.

        Reply
      • I agree, sport is a major tribal identifier…and unifier.

        Reply
        • kittycatkin

           /  27th September 2015

          I don’t agree; I never watch sport, find it a total bore and know that many others have no interest in it, preferring more intellectual interests.

          Reply
          • I didn’t mean to imply kittycat that absolutely everyone is drawn together by sporting events, but you have to admit that quite a few are. I can’t think of another example that cuts so broadly and so effectively across all the a other things that people band together over…like race, religion, language, ethnic culture, or politics…and in such a friendly and mutually tolelrant way.

            Can you?

            Reply
          • Mike C

             /  27th September 2015

            @Kitty

            As a sport hater and intellectual … what flag are you gonna choose 🙂

            Reply
  2. Mike C

     /  27th September 2015

    If one of the three fern flags make it to the final two, then I will vote for the fern.

    But if either of the “Black’n’Blue” or “Red Peak Engineering Company” make it to the final … I will be voting to keep the status quo.

    I don’t have anything majorly against the Black’n’Blue, but it just didn’t make me feel anything on an emotional level.

    As for the Red Peak company logo … I refuse to vote for it because of how the leftie activists and journalists and social media engineered it’s inclusion.

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  27th September 2015

      I might have got confused with which one was the “Black’n’Blue” flag 🙂

      I won’t be voting for the Koru or Red Peak ones in the final referendum … but I will happily vote for any of the three ferns.

      Reply
    • jamie

       /  27th September 2015

      I think the engineering of the inclusion of red peak was simply a response to John Key’s engineering of three ferns into the final four.

      The whole exercise has been badly politicised from the very start.

      Reply
      • there is no evidence that John key engineered any of the final four. There’s evidence the final four were at least in part chosen due to their popularity in polls. It would have been surprising (and I think appalling) if there hadn’t been a strong fern selection regardless of any stated Key preferences.

        Reply
        • jamie

           /  27th September 2015

          “Engineered” in the same sense as Mike used the word though.

          He started the process by saying he wanted the NZ flag to be a silver fern and then appointed a panel who delivered him three out of four. He is currently travelling the country trying to convince everyone he meets that we should have a fern for a flag.

          That’s “engineering” just as much as Mike’s imagined left-wing conspiracy.

          Reply
          • Mike C

             /  27th September 2015

            @Jamie

            If what I said above is a conspiracy theory … then I am happy to own it. LOL.

            I bet there are very few right wing voters who want Red Peek as our National flag 🙂

            Reply
            • jamie

               /  28th September 2015

              I know this isn’t scientific, but from my observations it’s as much a young/old divide as a left/right one. (Apart from diehard political tragics of course 😉 )

  3. Zedd

     /  27th September 2015

    I still think; IF they can add ‘Red Peak’.. then why not just add the current flag too & let it be sorted in one referendum vote ! :/
    I think ‘Team Key’ are trying to ‘sway opinion’ by their ‘dodgy 2 vote deal’. 😦

    Reply
  4. Brown

     /  27th September 2015

    The whole thing is an expensive shambles. With the amount of bullshit floating about its clear that no-one really cared about it – there was no underlying desire for change and even with ‘desire’ being poked with a pointed stick the beast of grassroots widespread public opinion (not the twittering bullshitting classes) refuses to wake up.

    Key is wearing thin. RHe needs to realise that if we wanted fabian socialism we would be voting Labour. He’s become a massive disappointment.

    Reply
  5. traveller

     /  27th September 2015

    The whole plan on the left and opposition benches has been to hijack the exercise, get in free kicks on Key and it has pretty well worked. I like Lockwood’s blue and red replace the Union Jack with the fern flag and will vote for that and change.
    The left’s furore has taken away from any positivity initially generated and I can’t see Key getting that vibe back unless he reframes it. I suspect he should turn it into a dip toe into the water, get us all thinking maturely exercise we need to go through as we head towards growing up and becoming a Republic.

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  27th September 2015

      @Trav

      I am voting for the Red White and Blue Silver Fern too, because basically, that flag has just had the Union Jack removed, and replaced with the Silver Fern.

      It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of older folks vote for the Red White and Blue Silver Fern, because it is a lovely blend of the old flag combined with a great New Zealand icon, which clearly distinguishes our flag from the Aussie flag 🙂

      Reply
  6. Brown

     /  27th September 2015

    I suspect older folks, whatever the hell that may mean, are too smart to vote for a slogan that came out of a Weetbix packet so I reckon older folks will want the status quo.

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  28th September 2015

      @Brown

      I consider myself to be “older” … and I am 56 years old and I have always loved Weetbix ever since I was a little kid 🙂

      I am embracing the process of changing the flag, however, if Red Peak makes it to the final, then that will make it very easy for me to vote for our current flag.

      Reply
  7. Brown

     /  28th September 2015

    I’m older than you Mike C but not much. You can embrace bullshit all you want.

    Reply

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