For and against Chris Brown

There have been a number of arguments for and against allowing musician Chris Brown to come to New Zealand for a concert due to his history of violence, including a brutal attack on then partner Rihanna in 2009.

A number of Maori dames have supported Brown’s tour. Radio NZ:

Dame Tariana Turia gets behind Chris Brown’s NZ tour

Dame Tariana Turia says Chris Brown has a lot to offer to offer New Zealand and she was supporting his visit to this country.

She said she was sure he had learned from his mistakes.

It doesn’t say how she is sure.

Dame Tariana said she would write to the Immigration Minister in support of the performer’s visit.

“He would like to come here; he’s prepared to give a particular message to our young people. Our young people listen to people like Chris Brown. They don’t listen to me.

“I mean, I was involved in family violence [prevention] probably for a good 12 years of my time in Parliament. All the programmes that we put out there, nothing changes.”

Promoting people like Brown may suggest attitudes on change haven’t been optimal.

But Te Taitokerau MP Kelvin Davis said Brown’s presence in New Zealand would do nothing to reduce this country’s rate of domestic violence.

“Do we really want our young people to be entertained by someone who has committed domestic violence?”

Mr Davis said domestic violence was a massive issue in New Zealand, and domestic violence crime statistics continued to rise.

Brown has already been banned from the United Kingdom and Canada.

An editorial in the Wanganui Chronicle (Mark Dawson) supports Brown:

Time to forgive hip-hop artist

I am sure Brown is still far from the perfect gentleman but if he seeks rehabilitation and redemption, let’s give him that chance in New Zealand.

One of the big questions is does he genuinely seek rehabilitation and redemption or is he saying what he thinks he needs to so his tour can go ahead.

After all, our political masters put out the welcome mat for foreign leaders with far bigger criminal pasts – it is just they haven’t actually been convicted.

That’s one of the silliest arguments I’ve seen on this.

Brown should be rehabilitating and redeeming in his own country.

If Brown had a record of genuinely speaking out against violence and proposed to come to New Zealand just to speak out against violence it would be different. But he wants to perform here.

Andrea Vance doesn’t think Brown should come -from Let’s not bend the rules for ‘breezy’ Chris Brown:

Rape culture is everywhere. It’s in Chris Brown’s misogynist lyrics and overly sexualised videos.

It’s reflected in the vulgar tweets he fired off to US comedian Jenny Johnson, calling her a bushpig, worthless bitch; he threated to defecate in her mouth and eyes, following it up with the charming offer to “suck my d***, YOU HOE.”

To bargain his case, Brown offered to “raise awareness” of domestic violence if he’s allowed into the country. Supporters claim his words carry weight with his younger fans.

But Brown’s message is one of insincerity. It’s a bargaining chip – and one that cannot be taken seriously while he continues to refer to women as bitches and hoes.

The gesture is cancelled out by his attitude, lack of genuine remorse and – frankly rapey – lyrics like: “I want your body/Let me get it from the back/girl, I’m about to attack.” Or “She’s more than a mistress/enough to handle my business/now put that girl in my kitchen.”

And a harsh cartoon in NZ Herald:

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22 Comments

  1. Mike C

     /  5th October 2015

    The assault of Rihanna took place six years ago, and to my knowledge Chris Brown has not assaulted anyone since then.

    If Brown came to New Zealand, then part of the deal could be that he has to give a free speech in South Auckland, talking about his experience with violence, and what he has learned. After the speech he could sing one song, to make sure that he gets a good crowd coming to listen to his speech 🙂

    Reply
    • As long as your arm......

       /  5th October 2015

      @MC

      In case you missed something, here’s the arrest record of ‘Mr Brown’ from Feb 2009 to Feb 2015 –

      http://archive.entertainmentwise.com/news/165347/chris-brown-criminal-history-timeline-arrests-charges

      So no, we don’t need any more criminal arseholes like this in our country!

      We’ve got enuff of our own here already…..

      Reply
      • DaveG

         /  5th October 2015

        Probably why Turiana supports him poping in for a cuppa and a cone, share stories of violence. Once were warriors indeed. Anyone seeing the pictures of Rhianna would realise, NEVER EVER should he be allowed anywhere. If a dog attacks livestock, they are shot……..

        Reply
    • kittycatkin

       /  5th October 2015

      I trustingly thought that he had one conviction and had changed his ways until I read the article listing the others, which made me think again about having him here. When one thinks about it, an attack like the one on Rihanna is unlikely to be a one-off. It might have been the last-though it wasn’t-but surely nobody begins a life of violence with a really bad one like this.

      The lyrics of his and other such songs are repulsive, but the girls who attend his concerts and appear in his videos (and other videos of songs like them) have something to answer for, as they make it seem that they find this sort of thing sexy and acceptable.

      People can say that the word bitch has been reclaimed blah blah blah as have slut and other words, but that is nonsense, They mean what they mean.

      I do believe that violent people can change, but this young man doesn’t seem to be one of them.

      Reply
  2. traveller

     /  5th October 2015

    You just need to read the lyrics of any of his songs (including all his post assault ones)to see his attitude to women.
    My belief is people who support him in this endeavour are precisely the ones whose head in the sand pussy footing and apologising is precisely the reason no progress is made in our violence stats. Anyone who can say that this Neanderthal could be an instrument for change is deluded.

    “1. “Undercover”

    “I’m trying to get you drunk as f***
    Take her to my crib then I lock her in them handcuffs
    Panties off, stupid booty
    Ready for war – Call of Duty
    She said I got the right to remain silent and
    I’ve got to give it to her rough
    But I better not get violent – ha!
    Girl, my chain feel like an anchor
    And when I told you to use your head
    I didn’t want you to be no thinker”

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Five-of-Chris-Browns-worst-lyrics/tabid/615/articleID/101341/Default.aspx

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  5th October 2015

      @AsLong and Trav

      Okay … I take back what I said 🙂

      Brown has clearly not changed his attitude to things like violence and guns etc.

      If he’d had a clean record since 2009, then that would have shown he had learned his lesson, but Brown obviously hasn’t, so he should not be allowed to come here.

      Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  5th October 2015

        Well, I heard the lies that he had a clean record since then, it must have come from somewhere. I was willing to give someone who hadn’t done anything for that long the benefit of the doubt. The people who made this statement originally have to have known it was a lie.

        Reply
    • Maureen W

       /  5th October 2015

      His crappy lyrics should be reason-enough to keep him out. Tariana Turia offering to write a letter of recommendation for Brown to help get him into the country, shows she’s a bigger dodo than he is.

      Reply
      • traveller

         /  5th October 2015

        How can Turia even wonder why all the “Millions she spent while in government never achieved anything” as she said the other day. What message would the Kahuis or the Glassie whanau take from these lyrics?
        How about addressing the underlying issues that inter generational violence thrives in. We all know them.

        Reply
        • Maureen W

           /  5th October 2015

          Destiny Church has now come out and said they will also write a letter of support for Brown, and invited him to attend their Cough-Up programme (make that their Man-Up programme). Guess they must be seeing a buck in it for them.

          Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  5th October 2015

            I don’t supose that one could keep him out for his revolting lyrics alone (they’re not even well-written) but as a convicted criminal he can be refused entry. Other countries do this. My brother has a conviction for a small amount of cannabis which could well keep him out of America. If he can be barred from there for that, an American can surely be barred from here for crimes that are far worse.

            Destiny must be insane If he had become a changed man, they might have a case, but his obscene, sex-mad lyrics should be a turnoff for any church.

            Reply
  3. tealeaves

     /  5th October 2015

    Tariana has too much faith in people, I think.

    Reply
    • kittycatkin

       /  5th October 2015

      That’s being charitable ! I can’t see how she can bleat that he has a message for the young ones-well, he has, now I come to think of it, but it’s a message that domestic violence and rape are acceptable,

      I cannot see how young women can think that this is all right. Even when I was (ahem) that age, I wouldn’t have, and I was as daft as any other teenager !

      Reply
  4. jaspa

     /  5th October 2015

    “I mean, I was involved in family violence [prevention] probably for a good 12 years of my time in Parliament. All the programmes that we put out there, nothing changes.”

    These women’s attitude demonstrates one of the main reasons nothing changes perfectly. Shame on them.

    Good to see Nanaia Mahuta standing up against this nonsense. We don’t normally hear much from her (lol), but at least this time she has come out with something worthwhile.

    Reply
    • Hollyfield

       /  5th October 2015

      Agree with you completely. Tariana also contradicts herself “She said she was sure he had learned from his mistakes.” but then “nothing changes”. Does she really think he has learned from his mistakes? Doesn’t sound like it.

      Reply
      • As long as your arm......

         /  5th October 2015

        @ jaspa

        The problem is of course, that a lot of ‘these women’ actually consider this type of violence to be nothing more than foreplay……they actually enjoy it.:)

        Reply
        • kittycatkin

           /  5th October 2015

          Mistakes ??? Some mistakes. Oh dear, I’ve blacked your eyes and knocked out some teeth….my mistake.

          I wonder if TT would consider it a mistake if one of her mokos was with a man like this who beat her up. Or if it was a boy who was with a woman who attacked him physically. The woman who hits and abuses her partner on the Dodge ad would draw great flak if it was her being hit and abused as she was driving, I am certain-but it’s seen as a joke because it’s a man being assaulted. There are ? depictions of a boy and a young man being hit, shoved and shouted at on a new health insurance ad-and the voice-over says that the victim is in the wrong, even if he’s right. Imagine an ad where women were hit, shoved and shouted at and told that they were in the wrong for being on the receiving end of this. What a message to send out to boys.

          Violence is a crime-Chris Brown is advocating a crime, as it doesn’t seem to me that he’s describing a consensual act of not very real violence.

          Reply
        • Mike C

           /  5th October 2015

          @Jaspa

          What ???

          Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  5th October 2015

            I think that you’re reading something addressed to Jaspa….

            Reply
  5. jamie

     /  5th October 2015

    “If Brown had a record of genuinely speaking out against violence … ”

    That’s the crux of it right there. I take more notice of where someone is now than where they’ve been, but none of his cheerleaders has provided any information to show that he has moved on at all.

    I’m quite sure that if he had any record of speaking out against violence they’d be shouting it from the rooftops.

    Reply
  6. Robby

     /  5th October 2015

    Its a no win situation really. Let him in so he can set a bad example, or refuse him entry and make him a martyr. I think the best option is to let him in, watch him closely, and let the boys in blue get some taser practice as soon as he steps out of line…

    Reply
    • kittycatkin

       /  5th October 2015

      If he isn’t let in, it’ll be the proverbial nine day wonder….and that does seem to be about as long as these things stay around. We don’t need a convicted violent criminal telling people how great violence and rape are, there are enough people who think that way here already.

      It seems to be a worldwide practice not to let such criminal visitors in. We need offer no explanations for this.

      Reply

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