Open Forum – Thursday

8 October 2015

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is to encourage you to raise topics that interest you. 

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some basic ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.
  • Debate hard if you like but respect people’s right to have varying views and to not be personally be attacked.
  • Don’t say to a stranger online anything you wouldn’t say to their face.

Moderation will be minimal if these guidelines are followed. Should they ever be necessary any moderator edits, deletes or bans will be clearly and openly advised.

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35 Comments

  1. Guest

     /  8th October 2015

    Spanish Bride has drawn attention to the mind-blowing demise of the WO blog site. She brags about how it is still No 1 in terms of ranking. However, a quick check of the page views for August 2014 gives context: August 2015 = 2.3m page views for the month, compared to August 2014 = 4.9m page views for the month.
    In August 2014 there were 3.4m unique visits to the site, whereas in August 2015 there were 1.1m.
    Not a good trend for advertisers.

    Reply
    • traveller

       /  8th October 2015

      She’s clearly very keen to ram home the numbers comparison as a part of their business model.
      I’m interested to know whether when you have to click to “see more replies” on disqus whether that’s counted as yet another page visit. Anyone know?

      Reply
    • Unitedtribe

       /  8th October 2015

      I posted this on Kiwiblog this morning
      Has Cameron Slater found his religion again? He hasn’t slagged off John Key since at least 2nd Oct. Must have been reading the stats. Wonder how he’s going to reprogram the echo chamber.
      I think this issue and the effect that Pete is having is destroying WO. I hardly know any of the contributors on WO anymore. They are all on Kiwiblog. I also note that Pete and other mods are making more and more comments themselves. The other day WO only had 35 comments on General Debate and about 5 of them were from Pete.

      Reply
      • Maureen W

         /  8th October 2015

        @Unitedtribe
        Yes, Pete doesn’t like “low-calorie” comments on WO. I notice he now frequents the evening Backchat with these types of questions to drum up the comments ..”What’s the best sound ever?..”

        Hypocrite!

        Reply
  2. Guest

     /  8th October 2015

    A genius commentator on WO says this: ” I come here for news after a glimpse of the lefty propaganda on Stuff and co. Keep up the great work!!”
    The fact is WO’s ‘news’ is usually nothing more than a cut and paste from a MSM site with a couple of comments – for or against – included, to give the sense some value has been added.

    Reply
    • traveller

       /  8th October 2015

      Talking of propaganda I see that SB is pointing to the success and aspirations of the Canadian site ‘The Rebel’.

      She says, “(they need to) broadcast real TV shows, from a real studio in order to directly compete. Thanks to technology it looks like he will be able to take on the incumbent (MSM) for only cents on the dollar. That is the problem with Mainstream Media today. They are stuck with millions of dollars of infrastructure which new Media can challenge at a fraction of the cost. ”

      One needs a good deal of money to begin to compete with those resources. Though these days it might be comparatively easy to set up digital media alternatives you still need lots of lucre. So, it’s got to be your own, borrowed or crowdsourced to get off the ground. Being bogged down in revenge projects means goals are sidelined and interest lags as viewers get bored & backers cold feet. There’s also that pesky problem of getting journalists onboard, that’s problematic for WO. How’s that long promised Freed model going then?

      http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2015/10/the-public-have-an-appetite-for-rebel-media/#ixzz3nv7dvPnp

      Reply
      • Guest

         /  8th October 2015

        @ traveller
        Agreed. The role of the ‘news’ media is to bring content of interest to its readers. I can’t see how WO could possibly achieve such a switch in mindset, where its intent is to bring content of interest to the blogger and attempt to make it something its not – usually relevant, timely or something people need to know or care about.

        Reply
        • Mike C

           /  8th October 2015

          @Guest

          Yes … Slater’n’Co have always had a kind of a “Lone Wolf” attitude when it comes to the content of their posts.

          I doubt very much that Slater and Spanish Bride would be capable of running a media outlet that is focused upon looking after the needs of their readers and commenter’s … as opposed to their long time habit of just pleasing themselves.

          Reply
    • Mefrostate

       /  8th October 2015

      I love the implication that WhaleOil isn’t propaganda.

      Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  8th October 2015

      If you factor out the postings where Slater uses MSM content from Stuff and NZHerald, there’d be no content left…yet I sits there giving them the metaphorical finger for lacking journalistic substance… I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning….(apologies to Lt.Col. Kilgore)

      Reply
      • Joe Bloggs

         /  8th October 2015

        If you factor out the postings where Slater uses MSM content from Stuff and NZHerald, there’d be no content left…yet he sits there giving them the metaphorical finger for lacking journalistic substance… I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning….(apologies to Lt.Col. Kilgore)

        Reply
  3. Karen

     /  8th October 2015

    Jeepers, I knew Ban Hammer Pete was doing sterling work over at WhaleOil but even I didn’t know he was this good.

    Open Parachute September 2014

    Whaleoil:
    Visits/month      Page Views/month
    3716364             5309045

    https://openparachute.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/september-14-nz-blogs-sitemeter-ranking/

     One short year later….

     Open Parachute September 2015

    Whaleoil:
    Visits/month      Page Views/month
    1122165             2347937

     https://openparachute.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/september-15-nz-blogs-sitemeter-ranking/

     Yes I know they’re still number one and I know it was an election year last year but that’s a pretty big drop.

    And lest anyone think this is an anti WhaleOil post it isn’t, just noting the damage that twit Pete has done to the place.

    PS. Just noticed Guests post after I’d finished writing this but thought I’d post it anyway 😊

    Reply
    • Guest

       /  8th October 2015

      Your figures are better than mine!

      Reply
    • Mefrostate

       /  8th October 2015

      How reliable are the openparachute numbers? I can never believe the gap between WhaleOil and Kiwiblog, considering the latter consistently gets miles more comments.

      Reply
      • traveller

         /  8th October 2015

        On Kiwiblog to read the articles? Just open the site and there they all are. On the other hand over at Oilslick/Stranded/DailyBog you’re forced to click through. That’s a huge page visit bonus right there.

        Reply
      • Mike C

         /  8th October 2015

        @MeFrost

        Pete Belts click-bait posts such as: “Turd of the Day” and “Crap of the Day” are responsible for tricking people into giving the Whale those high statistic numbers compared to KiwiBlog 🙂

        The Whale certainly doesn’t get its high stats from writing interesting posts, or from the stimulating comments written by its “One Way Street” commenter’s. LOL.

        Reply
    • Kevin

       /  8th October 2015

      To add more context:

      Sept 2014:

      1 Whale oil beef hooked 3716364
      2 Kiwiblog 695190
      3 The Daily Blog 504304
      4 The Standard 429438

      Sept 2015

      1 Whale Oil 1122165
      2 Kiwiblog 324801
      3 Student art guide 313371
      4 The Standard 217161
      5 The Daily Blog 182641

      Looks like it’s a general trend. And what’s Student art guide doing in there? If I was Prentice or Bradbury I’d be highly embarrassed.

      Reply
  4. Mike C

     /  8th October 2015

    LOL. Today’s forum has become a “Slater” post … written by Georges commenter’s 🙂

    Reply
  5. Guest

     /  8th October 2015

    Ok. So today, in a feeble attempt to promote his book, author Cameron Slater quotes some figures relating to a fall in union membership.
    He asks: “In four years the combined unions lost 7000 members. Why?
    What has happened to make unions less relevant?”

    So he regards a drop in numbers as a loss in relevance. Does he not see the same message in the dramatic drop in unique visitor numbers and page views of his very own blog?? Go figure.

    Reply
  6. Kerry

     /  8th October 2015

    Anyone Watching Seven Sharp tonight? William Shatner is in the studio what an absolute train wreck this is !!!!

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  8th October 2015

      @Kerry

      William Shatner was fine 🙂

      The problem was with the male and female arse-licker presenters. LOL.

      Reply
      • stinkfinger

         /  8th October 2015

        I just tried giving you TWO ‘thumbs up’ MC, one for each of the arse-licker descriptions.

        Unfortunately, the system didn’t allow me 😦

        Reply
    • So far it’s been quite perceptive and well done. They obviously know The standard well.

      Reply
    • Your NZ seems to have a strong critique stream going on WOBH so it makes sense we have another blog critiquing The Standard… even the blog name is pompous….

      Reply
  7. Your blog has a number of people on it who bag our moderation on a regular basis which is their right and opinion fair enough. However I just wanted to share with you this comment on our blog tonight in response to a post I wrote about Rebel Media.

    Ok I’ll admit upfront that I’m not (well wasn’t) a big blog reader/follower and I only joined WhaleOil post moderation. However it is this moderation that has kept me coming back and has even, with time, given me the courage to actually say something knowing that whether anyone agrees or disagrees I won’t be abused or put down.

    Moderation, in my opinion, also makes the contributions from others more interesting and valuable (I never cease to be amazed at what I learn here) rather than just a barrage of bad language or a blog equivalent of ‘high fives’ (i.e. the Yes / I agrees / etc). The up-vote here is a brilliant way to take care of this.

    Long may moderation live.

    However it’s not only the moderation but also the reporting that has kept me engaged as I don’t mind what bias anyone has, lets face it we all have them, but here it is not hidden and I can make my own mind up.

    I’m female and up there in years just to complete the picture.’

    Reply
    • An interesting comment. It seems to suit her so good for her.

      I’ll just make the point that “a barrage of bad language or a blog equivalent of ‘high fives’” can be dealt with in more ways than heavy handed moderation – those who haven’t been hammered by it probably don’t understand what it was like particularly during the purges.

      Reply
    • Unitedtribe

       /  8th October 2015

      Take a look at Kiwiblog. I haven’t noticed any bad behaviour there. As far as I am concerned most people extracted from WO have gone because Pete dosnt like them. If you have a different view your gone. Sorry SB but thats the reality

      Reply
  8. Sally

     /  8th October 2015

    PG. I lived through the moderation on WO. I doubt I would have lasted long on WO if the quality of comments hadn’t improved. The comments on WO now add something to the original post. You don’t have to agree with everything written there but when putting an opposing view you debate not attack the person.

    Reply
    • I’m aware of what a toxic commenting environment is like, I’ve plenty of experience in them – and you might find this odd but O was far from the worst. Until the purges, where bans were sometimes targeted, sometimes indiscriminate.

      If you like commenting in the resulting sanitised environment then fine. But I’ve heard quite a lot of people who have said they’ve been banned for putting an opposing view. Or less.

      Reply
    • Sally – when comments just disappear for no reason then there is a problem……Moderation removing straight abuse and rules around no swearing are all good. Random removal because … well just because isn’t good. Months of my comments were removed after copping a ban…that seems a little ott don’t you think?

      Its Cam’s blog and he can do what he wants…. I’ll never comment there again regardless of my commenting ban being lifted or not.

      Glad you still enjoy WOBH…

      Reply

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