“Nicky Hager had committed no such offences”

As well as Anthony Robins there’s a number of commenters Angry at Westpac At The Standard. Some are in the ‘Nicky Hager can do no wrong’ camp.

Freemark remarked:

A few comments out there regarding Hagar & his sources being untouchable due to the “Public interest.”

IMO we saw at the Election and subsequently how interested “the Public” were/are in the book and the issues.

Westpac (& every bank) is required by law & often does disclose many details of account balances, income/expenses etc to other Govt organisations such as IRD etc.

They will also on behalf of these organisations clean out bank accounts and pay them over to said Govt department.
Where is the outrage about this?

Anne replied:

We’re not talking about government departmental cooperation to obtain evidence of fraudulent or criminal behaviour. Nicky Hager had committed no such offences and the police were well aware of that fact from the start.

I don’t know how Anne can be certain Hager had “committed no such offences”.

As well as having an apparent god-like knowledge of everything Hager has done or not done Anne also seems to have an uncanny knowledge of everything the police are aware of.

What we are talking about is a band of corrupt police officers using a legal loophole for the purpose of harassing and intimidating a NZ citizen because he had the temerity to write a book exposing corruption within the government which lead directly to the Prime Minister’s office.

So Anne has judged the police corrupt, convicted them and would sentence them if that was within her powers.

The fact so many voters are ignorant and clueless when it comers to such matters is not the fault of the messenger – in this case Nicky Hager – but the lazy, dumbed down voters of which you appear to be one.

It’s the lazy dumb people who can’t see the truth as per Saint Anne. And they are too lazy and dumb to vote how Anne wants them too.

I don’t know whether the Police and Westpac acted properly in the investigation of Nicky Hager. If they did abuse law and process to gather evidence then I will be very critical of them.

But unless this is investigated properly and the actual facts become known I will keep an open mind about whether there is any fault or corruption involved.

Some like Anne can see no wrong in Saint Nicky.

But no one in New Zealand should be immune from investigation if it is warranted.

Those like Anne who wanted Dirty Politics to swing last year’s election their way seem to put their political ambitions above  the law.

I certainly have serious concerns about what Dirty Politics highlighted (it didn’t reveal much apart from some detail because i was aware generally of how Cameron Slater operated with Jason Ede and others).

I also have potential concerns about how the police investigated Hager, but that is subject to the whole truth becoming known.

I also have serious concerns about one sided books being launched during election campaigns.

And I have serious concerns about individuals being promoted as too perfect to be subject to the laws of New Zealand, and an assumption that any attention from the police must mean corruption.

I guess Anne will just label me as lazy and dumb. But I can claim I have committed no such offences.

Leave a comment

36 Comments

  1. SteveRemmington

     /  27th October 2015

    I think poor old Anne fell out of the irony tree and hit every branch on the way down when she made this statement:

    “What we are talking about is a band of corrupt police officers using a legal loophole”

    In comparison to Anne on the HDPA Guncity scam of a reporter using an illegal loophole.

    “I’m not much into Garner and Du-Plessis Allan either but that was some smart detective work.”

    Reply
  2. It has very much yet to be proven that Hagar committed no crime. He started off saying he didn’t know the hacker, then he said he had meet them …… hmmm. Methinks his story is a bit all over the place….

    IF computer files are property then he has received stolen property… a Public Good defense is available but it will be interesting to see if it stands up. It probably will.

    But the nub of this whole thing is – would the Left be so keen on Public Good if it was one of their operatives hacked and all their email, FB messages, sms etc used to smear their party? I suspect the normal Leftie doublethink would come out strongly and they would be screaming for the Police to find and punish the perp….

    We have had a Right wing politician or operative hacked now – Brash and Slater. it seems its open season out there if you can leave no fingerprints and get the information to a “journalist”…

    Reply
  3. traveller

     /  27th October 2015

    Anne is one of the worst commenters at the standard. She is so compromised by unflinching partisanship she brings nothing to the table but fodder for the +100 gang. I’ve often wondered whether or not the powers that be there have ever, or thought to have a quiet word about the dumbing down element she brings to the forum. I know she’s only one of the bitter keyboard warriors but in my opinion they bring little enhancement to the cause. They are (sorry Bomber) the leading left wing forum, and decent moderators should recognise a duty to address this.

    As for St Nicky, I put him in the same camp as St Julian , St Edward and Lady Chelsea. I fail to see how society benefits from their biased editing of stolen communications to frame information as they see fit. People need to start demanding from Hager that he is as open to giving information they demands of others. For example, who was Hager colluding with? Does anyone contribute to his expenses and if so who are they, how much do they contribute? Let the public see their agenda. Why does Anne think people like Hager should have carte blanche to “receive” stolen data, edit it to express and frame their opinion while declaring NZ police and the justice system of our democratically elected government should not have recourse to the laws as regards theft?

    It’s time Hager and his activism were held to even just a smidgen of the examination they think should apply to their political enemies.

    Reply
    • traveller

       /  27th October 2015

      I’d love an edit button

      Reply
    • Rob

       /  27th October 2015

      ‘I fail to see how society benefits from their biased editing of stolen communications to frame information as they see fit.” And yet we don’t see the NSA coming out and saying they’re lying. Wonder why that is. Oh yeah, it’s because they don’t edit to frame info as they see fit. You’re getting the real deal which they can’t dispute.
      “I can’t imagine how I would feel were my comms hacked. It wouldn’t be so much the political stuff but the private stuff that would make me feel violated.” They don’t need to hack you. They can read any communication they want, when they want. They got exposed and it’s made a lot of people realize that if they want private comms to remain private then encryption is the key. If they were allowed to continue on that path, hello police state.

      Reply
      • traveller

         /  27th October 2015

        Who is Nicky Hager?
        Who is Julian Assange?
        Why do some people think they should be above the law?
        What gives these men the moral authority to steal and manipulate information then disseminate it to meet their narrative and feather their own nests at the same time?
        Why should their actions be sacrosanct and why should they evade due process?

        Every three years in a free society like New Zealand we give governments a mandate. Part of that is to protect our geopolitical interests. I suggest that in the West we’ve long battled and campaigned for the freedom extended to men like Assange and Hager. It is only fitting they stand accountable for their actions. Assange specifically collates information that damages the interests of the West. Do we see him publishing anti- Russian and anti-Communist China hackers? No. People like him are nothing but cyber terrorists justifying it as a moral duty.

        Reply
        • Rob

           /  27th October 2015

          If you want to read what they get go to wikileaks. The info is not stolen by them, it’s handed to them by people who feel the public has a right to know exactly what is going on. It’s not manipulated and then diseminated to meet an adgenda. You’re reading the exact document they receive. You say you wouldn’t like it if someone got hold of your private comms and yet you appear to be fine with governments sweeping up any and all info they like. Just posting in a forum such as this can bring attention on yourself simply by the fact that someone else posts something which seems suspicious and they can then say, well we better have a look at everyone posting in there.
          “Assange specifically collates information that damages the interests of the West.” No, they publish all the material they get.
          I’m sure they would post anything from chinese or russians but there would probably a dearth of info from them as they wouldn’t even get a trial just taken out and shot.
          They come out with ridiculous senarios such as, phones shouldn’t be allowed to be encrypted because then we might have a difficult time finding child abductors when in fact they’ve never found one by using that method. The Boston bombers were handed to them on a plate by the Russians before the event. That did a lot of good didn’t it. They were to busy looking elsewhere. Asked what attacks have been stopped? Sorry we can’t tell you because of national security reasons. James Clapper lied to Congress about spying on American citizens. His excuse? He forgot about the Patriot Act. Yeah the head of NSA forgot about that. Tell me another one. Gets a slap on the wrist.
          “Part of that is to protect our geopolitical interests.” And part of that is to spy on New Zealanders? Five Eyes sweeps up vast amount of info. The NZ govt gets to see what the US sees fit to give us. It has also been used for industrial espionage by the US.
          You may well be content for governments to give themselves more and more power over you, but I’m not. Assange and Snowden have done us all a favour.

          Reply
          • traveller

             /  27th October 2015

            Such Noble Cause Corruption is deemed acceptable to those on the activist left when it comes to Hager, Assange, Snowden etc, but similarly they decry it as evil where it exists for the greater good – i.e. the Defense and Foreign Policy Depts of Western governments. They also have a reluctance to have their moral imperative tested in courts – they flee to despicable oppressive systems (Snowden)they hunker down like cowards in Embassies (Assange) and they use the law to protect themselves when their victims were not extended any such courtesy (Hager).
            What’s the difference? ”

            You quote me:

            ” “Assange specifically collates information that damages the interests of the West.” ”

            Then you respond (sic).

            “No, they publish all the material they get.
            I’m sure they would post anything from chinese or russians but there would probably a dearth of info from them as they wouldn’t even get a trial just taken out and shot.”

            That alone shows what cowards they are. I’d bet the farm (not the communist collective) that the only governments these men are interested in “exposing the secrets of” are those of the US, their friends and indeed any Western government. That the countries they target champion freedom of association and are democratic; that they are proudly pluralistic and extend equal rights to all; that they have accessible, comprehensive legal systems seems to be quite forgotten in all the clamour for left wing relevance using freedom of information as their catch cry.

            Reply
            • Rob

               /  27th October 2015

              “… they decry it as evil where it exists for the greater good – i.e. the Defense and Foreign Policy Depts of Western governments.” Yea they do when these depts are poking their nose in where they don’t have a mandate to.
              Snowden had his passport revoked when he landed in Russia whilst in transit. He has no choice but to stay. He exposed the vast surveillance being perpetrated on American citizens which you don’t appear to care about in your rush to OMG we have to be secure.
              Assange will be sent to the US if he steps outside.
              We don’t live in a world full of rainbows and unicorns but that doesn;t mean we should allow govt to know everything about us.
              Cowards? Yea I’ll bet you’d the balls have to stand up and point out something was wrong if the result was a bullet in the head eh.
              “That the countries they target champion freedom of association and are democratic; that they are proudly pluralistic and extend equal rights to all; that they have accessible, comprehensive legal systems seems to be quite forgotten in all the clamour for left wing relevance using freedom of information as their catch cry.”
              That’s not what’s being targeted and you would have to be pretty one eyed to think it is. It’s maintaining that system and not letting it be eroded
              by those who think that total surveillance is required.

            • Rob

               /  27th October 2015

              We also have the right to know a lot about what govts are up to, especially when what they are doing is against the interests of the people they represent.

            • Rob

               /  27th October 2015

              “… left wing relevance…” That’s just laughable.

  4. Since when does “public interest” become a ruling factor in whether a so-called journalist s guilty of receiving stolen property? This may justify the subsequent publication of the property obtained but does not mitigate in any way that I can see the illegality of knowingly persuading a thief to pass on the stolen property. Also, has the question of copyright been examined? I would think that Slater has a case for significant damages in a civil action against Hager based on use of his emails which as I understand it were never the subject of a copy-write waiver.

    Reply
    • traveller

       /  27th October 2015

      I can’t imagine how I would feel were my comms hacked. It wouldn’t be so much the political stuff but the private stuff that would make me feel violated. Hager is that worst of men – one who masquerades as a truth arbiter but is nothing but a one-eyed and manipulative troublemaker. I hope he ends up being held accountable and ends up as a guest of our government reflecting on what he would replace our imperfect but pretty decent system with. I imagine it would be one that wouldn’t allow him any of the freedom he currently enjoys.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  27th October 2015

        I agree, but then my dislike of Hager is entirely personal as I have seen how some of his ‘books’ over the years have impacted on my friends and their lives.

        I know someone who was (un)fortunate enough to attend a talk by Hager, when they asked him how he felt about putting NZers lives in danger in Afghanistan with his book OPW he refused to acknowledge that he had increased the risk at all, despite him (correctly or incorrectly) identifying high value targets as working alongside NZers, and not just military but civilian aid workers as well. People like him who think it is okay to publish everything that NZers are doing in combat zones, and in the world of intelligence, show a huge amount of ignorance and risk a lot of people, civilians and military, including NGO staff.

        The likes of Snowden, Hager and Assange are not in fact working for the best interests of their country, but rather against the interests of their country and the people in it, and I truly believe that the information around intelligence gathering that has been leaked has contributed to the rise of ISIS and the greater risk to the world, though it could be years before we see exactly how much damage has been done, after all it was decades before the full extent of the damage done by the Cambridge Spies was known.

        Reply
        • Rob

           /  27th October 2015

          “….I truly believe that the information around intelligence gathering that has been leaked has contributed to the rise of ISIS and the greater risk to the world….”
          Interested in a big gray bridge? I have one for sale.
          ISIS is a direct result of western interference in the middle east. The idiotic invasion in Iraq was one of the major causes. It has absolutly nothing to do with Assange or Snowden.

          Reply
          • Missy

             /  27th October 2015

            I am not talking about the creation of ISIS, I am talking about how they have grown so much over the last 18 months or so. I do believe that the Snowden leaks have had an impact on that, and if you seriously don’t believe that then I believe you to be naïve or ignorant.

            The head of MI6 and MI5 have both stated publicly that Snowden’s leaks have led to a change in behaviours of extremist groups to avoid detection, thus leading to a lack of information being gathered. Snowden handed to the enemies of the west the best weapon ever – knowledge. It has also been stated by Intelligence officials in the UK that Snowden has potentially done more damage to the UK than Kim Philby ever did.

            Snowden himself has admitted that he did not know what was in the information he handed over to Greenwald. Snowden did not have the requisite training to fully comprehend the impact of what he is handing over to Greenwald, and it could be years, or decades, before it can be fully assessed as to what damage has been done by the leaks. Remember Snowden was only a systems analyst, despite the re-writing at later stages by his fanclub he was never an intelligence analyst, and has never had the training to understand intelligence.

            Reply
            • Rob

               /  27th October 2015

              “The head of MI6 and MI5 have both stated publicly that Snowden’s leaks have led to a change in behaviours of extremist groups to avoid detection, thus leading to a lack of information being gathered.” It’s called covering your ineptitude. Convenient scapegoat. If it wasn’t Snowden it would be something or someone else. You seem to think these terrorists are stupid. How long did it take them to nail Bin Laden. I think you’re the one being naive here.
              The US was handed the Boston bombers on a plate well before the event. Boom. Well that didn’t go to well did it.

    • Pete Kane

       /  27th October 2015

      What about fraudulently obtained property ie South African ‘journalists’ and firearms?

      Reply
      • traveller

         /  27th October 2015

        That will come down to a public interest I imagine, but I see your point. The police need to decide whether prosecution in both cases is prima facie and in the public interest.

        Reply
        • Missy

           /  27th October 2015

          I am not really sure about the Hager case, but in the case of HDPA I was talking to a senior police officer I know, and his opinion is that what she did can be argued under the public interest, and he said he would not charge her. By the way, this officer hates journalists and isn’t a fan of hers either, but on that he said that a charge against her wouldn’t hold up, and the public interest argument would win.

          With regards to Hager it would have to be established if he is a journalist or not, and despite him and his fanbase calling him a journalist I wouldn’t think he would meet the criteria of being a journalist, I see him as an author, though I am not a lawyer, and don’t know what the legal distinctions are, so I could be wrong, however, if I remember correctly David Fisher was ruled to be an author when it related to his book, not a journalist, so there could be something in that.

          Reply
  5. Me too for an edit button

    Reply
  6. Kevin

     /  27th October 2015

    “As well as having an apparent god-like knowledge of everything Hager has done or not done Anne also seems to have an uncanny knowledge of everything the police are aware of.”

    I wonder if Prentice will pull her up her and demand proof? Nah, I didn’t so either,

    The Left set the precedent when Nicky Hagar published stolen emails under the excuse of “public interest”. Now anybody can release private information and use “public interest” to justify it.

    The bottom line is that not you, not me, not the police, not people calling themselves journalists, or even a bank, should be able to decide what is in the public interest. The only person who should be able to decide what is in the public interest is a judge.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  27th October 2015

      Your last paragraph is spot on, many times those claiming something in the public interest don’t really understand the difference between ‘in the public interest’, ‘of interest to the public’ or ‘of interest to me, so therefore of the public’.

      Reply
  7. Missy

     /  27th October 2015

    Rob, above you claim Assange will be sent to the US if he steps outside, where is your evidence of this? What proof do you have that the US will want him extradited, apart from Assange’s paranoia? The US has not filed any charges against Assange, nor have they instigated any extradition procedures against him. The only person who thinks he was in danger of being sent to the US is Assange – and his fantasist acolytes.

    The only country Assange was going to be extradited to was Sweden, there is absolutely no evidence to support that he would have been extradited to the US.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  27th October 2015

      In addition to the above, Rob I am curious if you think it was right for Assange to run away from facing up to the rape allegations against him? Do you have so little compassion and consideration for victims of rape that you support an individual hiding to avoid facing the charges?

      Regardless of Wikileaks, or other things he has done, he was accused of a serious sexual assault, and for anyone to publicly support him avoiding facing the charges for the assault is to diminish and devalue the victim. You do appear to support his avoidance of facing the charges, is that because you think he is some kind of hero so shouldn’t have to face charges of an alleged assault, or do you think every man accused of rape should have the right to hide out in a Foreign Embassy to avoid facing the charges?

      Reply
      • Kevin

         /  27th October 2015

        Assange’s supporters believe the rape charges are fake and that the complainants were paid by the CIA, or something like that.

        Reply
        • Missy

           /  27th October 2015

          If it is true then it would come out in court, and if not, then all that can be concluded is that his supporters have been watching too many movies. I think they would find that if the CIA were going to do something like that it would be easier in the UK than Sweden for the purposes of extradition.

          Reply
    • Rob

       /  27th October 2015

      Do you seriously believe they will let him walk away? The president of Bolivias plane was denied airspace in numerous countries that were pressured by the US because of suspicions Snowden was on board They forced the plane to land and held everyone for 14 hours. The president of a sovereign country. The US will make every attempt to grab him. Legally or illegally. In 2002 Sweden was pressured by the US to send 2 Egyptians seeking asylum back to Egypt. You know, that little illegal thing called extrordinary rendition. The good ole USA isn’t afraid to apply the screws to get what it wants, sooner or later.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  27th October 2015

        I don’t know if the US will let him walk away or not, they may file charges against him at a future date, but I think that is highly unlikely. I don’t think Assange is on their radar much at all these days.

        I see you have conveniently not made a comment regarding the rape allegation against Assange, but rather have jumped on the Assange supporter’s ‘Evil America’ mantra, which leads me to conclude you have no issue with a man running away like a coward to hide in a foreign Embassy to avoid rape charges. I feel sad for you that you have so little compassion for the victims of sexual assault, and are so gullible to believe every conspiracy theory from someone who comes across as a paranoid narcissist.

        Reply
        • Rob

           /  27th October 2015

          “I don’t think Assange is on their radar much at all these days.” Now you are being really naive.
          “…which leads me to conclude you have no issue with a man running away like a coward to hide in a foreign Embassy to avoid rape charges. I feel sad for you that you have so little compassion for the victims of sexual assault…” I didn’t see that post but you come to any conclusion you like. Just shows your small mindedness.
          And as for that accusation? GFYS

          Reply
          • Missy

             /  27th October 2015

            “I didn’t see that post but you come to any conclusion you like.”

            So you didn’t see it, if you were to explain that and then answer I would have apologised for coming to a conclusion before you had seen a post and responded. And can I say thank you for saying I can come to any conclusion I like, it is always nice for the little women to get a man’s permission to think. (/sarc)

            “Just shows your small mindedness.”

            How? What is small minded about coming to a conclusion that someone who supports Assange hiding out to avoid extradition to face rape charges shows little compassion for the victims of sexual assault, usually a person who does not think a person should face charges for sexual assault does not have much consideration for the victims, if they did they would want their alleged attacker to be charged and tried in a court of law, I don’t think that is small minded. You have the option to show how I am wrong without insulting me, but you have not, that is your choice to leave my conclusion unanswered.

            “And as for that accusation? GFYS”

            What a charmer you are. (/sarc)

            Reply
            • Rob

               /  27th October 2015

              Well you’re certainly not shy. Just throw out an accusation. You could have asked if I’d read it. You insulted me right out of the gate with absolutly no valid reason. So yeah you’re a real sweety yourself aren’t you.
              “..it is always nice for the little women to get a man’s permission to think. (/sarc)” Does that ego get heavy after awhile?

            • Missy

               /  27th October 2015

              I am really sorry Rob, you are right, I should have asked if you had read my comment. I apologise.

              “So yeah you’re a real sweety yourself aren’t you.”

              Is this a question or statement? If it is a question, yes I am. If it is a statement, thank you.

              “Does that ego get heavy after awhile?”

              Since an ego is not physical matter it has no weight, so I would have to say no, but then that implies that it does have weight, so I am not sure if that would be the correct answer, maybe someone more scientific than me knows.

  8. Missy

     /  27th October 2015

    I have always found Anne’s comments to be rather bitter and intolerant of those she disagrees with, she comes across as one of those people who will continually bag the police and call them corrupt, but be the first to call them if she was a victim.

    I am not surprised at those comments by Anne, they seem to be entirely in line with how she comes across – anyone who reinforces her world view is right and should not be subject to the laws that those she disagrees with should be subjected to. She does seem to be one of the many hypocrites who talk about free speech, justice and being law abiding – as long as it is totally in line with her thinking.

    Reply
    • Jeeves

       /  28th October 2015

      Missy has managed to reduce a struggle for world human rights into an attack against Rob for somehow supporting rapists rights! Just as much as her RWNJ allies here have turned a conspiracy to rob New Zealanders of democratic choice (the plan exposed by DP) into an argument about ‘receiving’ ‘stolen’ ‘property’.

      Why are right winger so obsessed with obeying the law?
      If racism was made legal, would it become okay?

      Pete- It hasn’t taken long for your site to deteriorate right down there with the Kiwiblogs, the ACCForums and indeed the WO…. Hard luck mate- it was nice for a few months- but they’ve found you!!

      Reply
  1. Hager on Westpac | Your NZ

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