The Standard versus Stuart Nash

In response to Stuart Nash’s criticism in a post Stuart Nash has in a post at The Daily Blog at Greg Presland has posted Dear Stuart Nash.

It is an interesting post.

He talks about how the Labour Party is now more united and disciplined.  Fair call.  I am pleased to see that this is happening.

He talks about how winning is everything in politics.  Again this is fair enough.  Seven years of National’s current rule shows how important it is that a Labour Green government is elected.

He then criticises the party because more than one Labour member apparently said that they preferred Maryan Street to Nash as an MP.  He concludes that some in the party think that winning is a sin.  Unfortunately for Stuart he does not understand that his vainglorious success in Napier probably hurt the party’s prospects.

Vainglorious campaigns in an MMP environment where electorate seats are won and the party vote goes down are a waste of time.

Not very complimentary.

He then has a chip at this blog and calls it a bastardisation of a once proud Labour broadsheet.

Clearly he does not understand the importance of open debate and discussion.  And he clearly does not understand that the discussions generated by the Standard represent a distillation of the thoughts of activists and progressives throughout the country.

And pushback on Nash’s strong criticism of The Standard not being loyal Labour preachers.

The Labour Party has a proud history of activism and the promotion of cutting edge radical policies.  Mr Nash’s recipe of muted debate and bland third way triangulation of issues is a sure path to irrelevance.

It appears that Nash has responded in comments.

Stuart Nash 2.3

I have the energy, land information, forestry and statistics portfolios. I admit, I have done nothing with the statistics portfolio, but have been leading the charge around the ineptitude of the overseas investment office, and I have written three substantial policy discussion docs on forestry, energy and land information. I have also written and driven our provincial engagement strategy. I have also given more speeches in the House than any other Labour MP, and I finished my LLM this year. Believe me, I am not sitting on my arse doing nothing.

[fyi – Haven’t been able to verify the authenticity of these comments…this commenter may well not be Stuart Nash] – Bill

Update: [seem to be genuine after all]

There’s more response to Standardista comments.

dear me. imagine being in government. you obviously can’t but its why I am here.

And more.

For someone who has been around for so long – and under Helen – I am surprised at your apparent naivety. You just don’t get it do you. The interesting thing is that this is the first time I have actually read the Standard for months. I don’t know of a Labour MP who does (though no doubt there are some) because those I talk to tend to agree that this is a site mired in negativity and bile.

This site doesn’t represent the moderate left voter – or the aspirational Kiwi who is looking for an alternative to the current government; but rather the embittered left dreaming of a socialist utopia that has never existed anywhere in time or place.

Its an absolute disgrace to the proud broadsheet that used to be the Standard – and I should know, I have a whole heap of them at home. They trumpeted the Labour virtues, triumphs and achievements; not like this site that promotes a narrow biased view of the world that is totally irrelevant to the vast majority of thinking Kiwis.

I suspect that after tonight I won’t read this site for another 12 months. After all, why would I – it offers nothing I can’t get looking into a long drop in a DoC campsite.

Not a good look from Nash – but good that he has the freedom to speak his mind I guess.

Love it. That ‘American’ campaign manager was actually my birth father, and never ever once did I distance myself from Labour messages. In fact I was the first candidate who was open about the fact that a Labour candidate could not win Epsom.

Not too sure who you are, but you seem to forget that when I won the nomination for Epsom the LEC was broke, but I raised $15k for my campaign – spent $10k and left $5k in the coffers. The team and I (mainly Graham Lee) door knocked every house and the party vote for Labour in Epsom was the highest it has ever been.

Come on, be honest for a change and don’t hide behind a pseudonym. If you were on the Epsom LEC or my campaign 2005 campaign team then you know you are lying, and I don’t appreciate that.

[Nope. You don’t challenge the legitimate use of pseudonyms. Not here. There is nothing dishonest about employing them.] – Bill

But wait, there’s more.

Man, gotta love you guys. If think I don’t know what I was doing when I wrote the post on the Daily Blog, then you insult my intelligence.

The lack of political or strategic nous expressed in a number of the comments (and starting from the author of this post – sorry but take another look at the stats: holding electorate seats improves the party vote. The PV might have dropped in Napier, but I was not the MP, simply a candidate) just confirms my suspicion that this site is populated by the nutty fringe who really are quite divorced from political reality. You believe you influenced the outcome of the past tow leadership races? How did the Cunliffe campaign work out for you? Not too good right. Wow. How deluded is this!

I am just so relieved that very few actually take this site seriously. If they did, we really would be in trouble.

Good luck in future endeavours.

Oh, by the way, take a look at my election billboards: the vast majority simply said
NASH
LABOUR

None of this ridiculous other stuff that was floating about.

So, move away from the keyboard, go and raise some money, knock on doors, hold 150 street corner meetings, work hard for two years and you never know, you might win as well. But somehow I doubt that. :-)

Just what Labour needs. Not.

Nash is entering into exactly what he had warned against – making Labour look bad on blogs.

Leave a comment

31 Comments

  1. kiwi_guy

     /  3rd November 2015

    Excellent response by Nash. One of the few Labour candidates who actually functions and produces results i.e. gets votes.

    And he is obviously not interested in the Identity Politics crowd.

    No wonder he is feared and hated by the “Progressives”.

    its also curious that some on this site including the chief seem resentful of me shining a light on the Identity Politics/Twitterati crowd.

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  3rd November 2015

      @KiwiGuy

      It’s not so much about what you say … it’s about the way you say it.

      There seems to be a lot of resentment and hate towards certain religions and genders in your comments sometimes 😦

      Reply
      • jaspa

         /  3rd November 2015

        @Mike C,

        It’s just one religion, and one gender. 😉

        Reply
        • kiwi_guy

           /  3rd November 2015

          You are wrong.

          How do you categorise a “trans man” who heads to the nearest homosexual cruising ground after getting something resembling a male appendage stitched on?

          The majority of women do not agree with Feminism – don’t believe me, go google it yourself.

          The hate is coming from the Cultural Marxists. Don’t believe me, go research it yourself.

          I’ve been promised intelligent challenging of my opinions.

          Well, I’m still waiting…

          Reply
          • Mike C

             /  3rd November 2015

            @KiwiGuy

            You just seem to be very hyper focused on putting extremely provocative photos up in here … often along with very emotive wording.

            You appear to be trying to illicit strong reaction from the people in here 🙂

            Reply
            • kiwi_guy

               /  3rd November 2015

              Maybe they are “extremely provocative”, but that is not my fault, those images are not fake ones, they show the reality that a lot of you don’t seem to be aware of or don’t want to know.

              Actually, there are WAY worse pics out there – but I don’t post them in case its used as an excuse to shut me down. There is the entire unedited ISIS high definition video turning a Jordanian pilot into a crispy critter for example.

              But these images are very effective at demolishing certain Cultural Marxist arguments that even a lot of you on here seem to be regurgitating.

              For example: accusations that Slater is as bad as ISIS because he says we should wipe them out before they get a chance to do it first.*

              A few pics of what ISIS like to get up to makes those accusations look like the cheap shots they are.

              * Note: I’m not necessarily agreeing with what Slater said, but he had EVERY right to say it, and I can certainly FEEL where he is coming from with it, and the hysterical over reaction and demands to crush free speech by his political enemies is despicable.

          • Joe Bloggs

             /  3rd November 2015

            @kiwi_guy Mike C has made some observations which I concur with. With all due respect, it seems to me that your last post above reflects a pattern of provocation, resentment, and confrontational behaviour that I’m really not that interested in engaging with.

            So if you’re waiting for intelligent challenging of your (evidently very firm) opinions, then I’m very sorry but please don’t expect it from me every time you post

            Reply
          • DaveG

             /  3rd November 2015

            The issue is, when you wrestle with pigs, the Pig enjoys it, the mud sticks, the pig is happy as they know no better, and you walk away bruised and dirty.

            Reply
  2. kiwi_guy

     /  3rd November 2015

    Why is it the candidate being blamed for a drop in PV when they won the EV?

    That indicates the voters hate where the party is going but think the candidate is awesome. That reflects on the party NOT the candidate.

    Reply
  3. grantaviuskennarius

     /  3rd November 2015

    You have two paragraphs unindented which are quotes from Presland, beginning with “He then has a chip at this blog” and ending with “throughout the country”. It now reads as if these are your comments, not his.

    Reply
  4. Pete Kane

     /  3rd November 2015

    “……..vainglorious success in Napier probably hurt the party’s prospects.” So much for the prospects of a pleasant. quiet and cosy little conference. Wouldn’t be surprised if Andrew has taken a bit of an interest himself in those ‘controversial’ Gun City advertisements that gained media attention during the weekend.

    Reply
  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  3rd November 2015

    Really it’s all about as interesting,as watching a worm farm squirming.

    Reply
    • Pete Kane

       /  3rd November 2015

      Good morning from Wellington Mr Wilkinson. But in fairness Alan, you’ve often said that politicians are at their least harmful when in an idle state (my wording). Surely off scrapping about the inane and the trivial is the next best thing (esp. when its internal – even less harmful to the rest of us).

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  3rd November 2015

        Sure Pete. Worm farms are good for the nation too but I don’t need to watch them.

        Reply
  6. Kevin

     /  3rd November 2015

    “Nash is entering into exactly what he had warned against – making Labour look bad on blogs.”

    The Standard doesn’t need any help making Labour looking bad. And he’s right. It’s feet on the ground that wins elections, not so-called “robust” debate on some online blog populated by extremists and radicals.

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  3rd November 2015

      @Kevin

      The “feet on the ground and meet and greet” tactics also worked very well for David Seymour too … because he has become quite an up and coming shining star in Government now 🙂

      Standardistas have always had a very over inflated opinion of the influence their blog has on Government and politics in general.

      Reply
      • THUNDERBIRD 4

         /  3rd November 2015

        Your quite right on Seymour. Had my doubts on him at the start, but he is doing well. Running the old school style of meet the people just like Nash. I lean more to the right, but if Labour get in, I would be happy if Nash was in the mix. Seems like a good bloke. It would be great to see Nash and Davis at the top. Those at the Standard are definitely hurting Labour. The self righteous spew they write becomes tiresome.

        Reply
  7. Look talking sense or reason or rational doesn’t work with the Standards commentators. Nash just wasted a chunk of his life from which any reward would never come.

    Not of each other though : )

    Reply
  8. Pete Kane

     /  3rd November 2015

    Shame about the ‘accidental timing’ of all this.

    Reply
  9. SteveRemmington

     /  3rd November 2015

    Looks like Gweg Pwesland is challenging Two Votes Bradbury for the Wrongly Wrongson title in political strategy.

    Reply
    • Pete Kane

       /  3rd November 2015

      Steve R – I thought there other editor guy (he commented here a while back and made a total goat of himself) was off the planet but this guys putting up a serious challenge for that position himself.

      Reply
      • Pete Kane

         /  3rd November 2015

        Sorry edit, “their” not “there” (that was embarrassing given the tenor of my comments).

        Reply
  10. traveller

     /  3rd November 2015

    Labour does not have a moderate voiced blog with a wide outreach unless you count Public Address and believe me the floating “Waitakere Man” does not read that.

    The Standard, it is now well established, is a site for generally Labour but many other leftist activists. There is no moderate voice nor is there likely to be. Nash needs to revisit the drama Ms “Own the language” Clare Curran caused when she took this high-handed and personally career-wrecking path before.

    (There’s plenty more to see with a quick google, but I’m loathe to bore you all and I do not have the WordPress capabilities to italicize or hyperlink)

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/238634/curran-hits-out-online-critics

    “Among the allegations was that Labour Party MPs identified anonymous bloggers by their IP addresses on the party’s Red Alert blog.

    Ms.Curran said the people she complained about were party members, some of whom were using pseudonyms and had contributed to other party members being attacked and the Labour Party being undermined.

    ”There are questions about the conduct of anonymous bloggers who belong to the party but may be bringing it into disrepute, and it’s an issue the party needs to grapple with in the digital age.”

    While not saying who her complaints were against, several left-wing bloggers named the person as ”Colonial Viper”, from Dunedin, a member of the party.

    Blogger Eddie wrote on The Standard: ”To be clear, a senior MP is attempting to change the membership rules of the party to punish a member for writing some things that the MP doesn’t agree with in the comments section of blogs, which everyone knows Labour MPs don’t read anyway. Talk about breaking a butterfly upon a wheel. Talk about abusing your institutional power in an attempt to insulate yourself from criticism, no matter the cost to the party itself.”

    ”Apparently, the letter also included reference to bringing The Standard ‘back into line’.”

    Nash’s petulance is understandable as an avowed centrist who is in the wrong party. It is however just a continuation of more of the same. He represents a moderate but dying voice within a deeply divided and flailing for relevance party.

    Should he wish to start up a centrist blog and encourage “Waitakere Man” into stimulating and transformative discourse – good luck to him. Expecting to influence The Standard’s “vox populi” however, with words like “aspiring” and “moderate” is merely p!$$!*% into the proverbial.

    Reply
    • Kevin

       /  3rd November 2015

      “Apparently, the letter also included reference to bringing The Standard ‘back into line’.”

      Find someone who actually knows how to moderate a blog. That’ll bring it back into line.

      Reply
  11. J Bloggs

     /  3rd November 2015

    So…How long is Nash banned from posting at the Standard for, then….?

    Reply
    • Kevin

       /  3rd November 2015

      I don’t think he particularly cares as he only reads it once a year. 🙂

      Reply
      • kiwi_guy

         /  3rd November 2015

        And he probably won’t bother again.

        Love to see the look on those Standardistas faces when he becomes leader of the Labour Party and takes them back into power.

        Don’t laugh, its not impossible.

        Reply
  12. Pete Kane

     /  3rd November 2015

    Just thinking about this little saga, I would be interested to know what ‘intent’ Nash held. Just how calculated was his contribution at TDB? It is possible that he penned something pretty quickly, and whilst knowing it would annoy in some quarters, wasn’t really expecting this level of backlash.
    However, if said backlash was anticipated then then we may be seeing the beginning of something much bigger (weekend conference remember) – couldn’t help wondering if splits are in the air (from either side) and this was just a pre-emptive strike. (Clicked on The Standard link and 330 comments plus the 100 or so at TDB.)
    Remember this story a while back.
    http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/276/IS-IT-A-THINK-TANK—–OR-A-FACTION-LABOUR'S-NEW-GROUPING-Andrew-Little-Stuart-Nash-Phil-Quin-Josie-Pagani-Progress.htm

    Reply
  13. Hasn’t anyone told him that getting into blog spats isn’t the thing to be doing with his time?

    Reply

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