Open Forum – Sunday

27 December 2015

Open Forum will continue through the holiday period.

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is to encourage you to raise topics that interest you. 

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some basic ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.
  • Debate hard if you like but respect people’s right to have varying views and to not be personally be attacked.
  • Don’t say to a stranger online anything you wouldn’t say to their face.

Moderation will be minimal if these guidelines are followed. Should they ever be necessary any moderator edits, deletes or bans will be clearly and openly advised.

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37 Comments

  1. kiwi guy

     /  27th December 2015

    Here are some sobering charts on the dramatic change in the nature of employment in the US from Maxkeiser.com:

    “The world of work has changed, and the rate of change is increasing. Despite the hopes of those who want to turn back the clock to the golden era of high-paying, low-skilled manufacturing jobs and an abundance of secure service-sector white collar jobs, history doesn’t have a reverse gear ™.

    The world of work is never going back to the “good old days” of 1955, 1965, 1985, or 1995.”

    Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/2015/12/the-world-of-work-has-changed-and-its-never-going-back-to-the-good-old-days/#H3RutDvT0qqH31vu.99

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  27th December 2015

      It’s very US centric but some of it mirrors what I was saying. The premiums for imagination and salesmanship are increasing as automation and the internet magnify the reach of both without requiring much other labour.

      Reply
      • kiwi guy

         /  27th December 2015

        “imagination” in the sense of artistic design is not immune either – sites like 99 Design allow Third Worlder graphic designers to whore themselves out for the equivalent of a bowl of rice.

        “imagination” in the sense of entrepreneurship, finding solutions to problems etc would still be valuable.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  27th December 2015

          I really marvel at the cretinous birdbrains who give this conversation downticks. Their lives are surely doomed beyond my imagining.

          Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  27th December 2015

            I usually scroll down KG’s seemingly interminable posts without reading them now. so it’s not me.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  27th December 2015

              Of course not you, kc. But kg is talking good sense in this thread.

  2. Blazer

     /  27th December 2015

    Switzerland gets the urgently needed banking reform underway.
    Switzerland to hold referendum on banning private banks from creating money

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  27th December 2015

      It will be interesting but Switzerland usually votes conservatively so it may depend which side can best appeal to conservatism. My Swiss friends will vote even though they have lived here for 15 years.

      Reply
  3. Zedd

     /  27th December 2015

    The best thing, over the last 2 days.. about 12 episodes of ‘Doctor Who’ 🙂

    Reply
  4. kittycatkin

     /  27th December 2015

    Did anyone see the Auckland City Mission dinner for people who couldn’t afford one ? It wasn’t a very good look when recipients were taking selfies on smart phones. Call me Scrooge McCatkin, but anyone who can afford a smart phone can surely afford a Christmas dinner.

    Reply
    • i have stopped giving to things like City Mission as its being abused, same with food banks.

      My charity dollars go to medical research, hospice and IHC….

      Having the temerity to front for a free feed with a smartphone, even a cheaper one, is just unreal…

      Reply
      • Rob

         /  27th December 2015

        They probably have a fridge and a stove as well! Bludgers.

        Reply
        • Rob – the homeless used to be the Missions core business. Real down and outs – alcohol and drug problems.

          Now we have chancers turning up, plump as plump can be with nice phones, clothes and cars looking for a hand out.

          Frankly the “don’t point out the take advantage mob” type comment of yours is pure leftie BS. I live in a suburb with a large lower socio-economic population – I see the people gaming the system and scamming the gullible everyday.

          If you think there is a genuine widespread poverty problem in NZ you’re kidding yourself.

          Reply
          • Rob

             /  27th December 2015

            “Frankly the “don’t point out the take advantage mob” type comment of yours is pure leftie BS.” Give it a rest. And see someone about that pesky leftie derangement syndrome. You and a few others in here could probably get a group discount for treatment. Take advantage of it.

            Reply
            • Gee Rob – your wisdom and intelligence is overwhelming… I’ll run along now…. NOT…..douche

      • Kevin

         /  27th December 2015

        It’s even worse than that for reasons I don’t want to get into (legal stuff and all that). I wouldn’t give them a single cent.

        Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  27th December 2015

        My donations go to Oxfam, Hospice and a few others like Fred Hollows. All the loose silver that comes into this house goes into the Fred Hollows piggybank-if anyone leaves any lying around. they needn’t expect to see it again.

        It was disappointing to see the smartphone selfies being taken so openly; what sort of lesson are those children being taught ? That charities are mugs, to be exploited ? It looked like it.

        Reply
    • Zedd

       /  27th December 2015

      I thinks its also for lonely people to spend Xmas dinner with others.. not just the poor folk (whom Key reckons don’t exist in NZ) ! :/

      Reply
      • Kevin

         /  27th December 2015

        If I was one of the lonely people I can think of much better places to spend Xmas dinner with others … like the Sallies.

        Reply
        • kittycatkin

           /  27th December 2015

          The Mission seems to be (in theory) for the people who can’t afford it, according to what they said, and families can’t claim that they’re lonely. I’d have to say that people who have smartphones are taking advantage of the free meals. It would have been wiser not to show these on nationwide television ! Ordinary mobiles are one thing, but smartphones are not cheap and if people have those, they can’t be that poor, Last year people were driving up from Hamilton for the food parcels-and anyone who has a big SUV can’t be that poor, either.

          Smartphones can’t possibly be compared with fridges and stoves; which are essential while a smartphone isn’t for most people. Certainly not for children.

          I’d like to know when John Key said that there were no poor people in NZ. I have never heard him saying anything remotely like that. If he did, it would surely have made headlines.

          Reply
    • nom

       /  27th December 2015

      Smartphones are dirt cheap now and you would be hard pressed to find one that doesn’t have a camera.

      These days it’s more of a luxury to have a landline.

      Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  27th December 2015

        They may be cheap (some models) but if the children in a family have them, the family can’t be poverty-stricken.

        I would never want to be without a landline-I can make free toll calls on it and people can call me without paying for the privilege of doing so. I don’t regard myself as so important that people should expect to pay to speak to me. There are still many landlines-look in the phone book. More people have them than don’t, I think. And is there anything more annoying than paying to be put through to someone’s voicemail ?

        Reply
        • nom

           /  27th December 2015

          I can see the benefits of a landline to some, but the times they are a changin’.

          As to your point of the undeserving ‘poor’, who cares? I’m sure the people at the Mission would gladly feed John Key and his whanau if they were to turn up. Who are you to judge?
          It doesn’t change the fact that there are people that need and greatly appreciate the compassion and kindness of the good people at the Mission.

          Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  27th December 2015

            I think that one can ‘judge’ people who meanly take free food when they don’t need it. I didn’t say ‘undeserving poor’, you did, I think that one should care. The greedy people who scrounge things from charities leave less for the people who really need it. Yes, there may well be people who need the Mission-but the people who take their charity when they don’t need it are robbing those who do need it. It’s as bad as the people who steal from charity bins and collection boxes.I’m sure that they appreciate the things that they steal, but they leave less money for the charities’ real work.

            Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  27th December 2015

            Over 80% of households still have landlines.

            Reply
        • Big, big issue this, touched upon recently in “Child Poverty” topics. What actually constitutes poverty in New Zealand.

          I did see a Treasury briefing paper to the PM online once about poverty in NZ which, from memory, used the word “poverty” one time only before re-defining it as “income mobility” and discussing this subject for the remainder, with a rather derogatory “air” towards people who could not attain upward income mobility or required income assistance. I cannot locate the paper now though so … “just take my word for it, okay!”

          This “smartphones at a City Mission Christmas Dinner” comparative poverty thing is about as useful today as saying 200 years ago, “Look, the peasants flooding into our industrial revolution slums because we’ve replaced them with steam tractors and the railway, thrown them off their tenant farms and enclosed the commons, look, they’re walking aren’t they? They can walk! Look, some of them have even got shoes! And look, that family has a little hand-cart! They’re clothed – sort of – breathing and walking, they must have eaten, they’re not really poor at all! If they can breath and walk, and they’re willing to doss down in these rat-infested hovels, they can work in our factories 6-and-a-half days a week as well”

          What you are actually talking about is “consumer priorities” in a society which rates consuming pretty darned highly, promotes it in hundreds and thousands of subtle and not so subtle ways, and, perhaps most importantly, appeals to people’s more compulsive wants, desires and perceived needs, or their “keeping up with the Jones’s” sensibilities or whatever it can possibly appeal to in order to make the sale.

          We talk about “informed consent” but we never talk about “informed consumption”?

          Fast food and gadgets are prime examples. People not only think they need them, they compulsively want them. I think it’s an unrecognised form of addiction.

          If access to telecommunications isn’t considered a necessity in this country now it jolly well should be, in my opinion. A tertiary human right in a tertiary or “developed” society or “first world” economy.

          The higher we set the poverty bar in this country the better as far as I’m concerned.

          Reply
  5. Kevin

     /  27th December 2015

    The ongoing Shakespearean tragedy that is Kim Dotcom.

    Not only we witnessing the slow but sure destruction of the empire of Kim Dotcom, but the almost total destruction of the credibility of journalists and media voices such as Lynn Prentice, Martyn Bradbury, and David Fisher. I say almost because no matter how small there is still a chance the that the High Court may reverse the District Court judge’s decision.

    The tragedy is that it didn’t have to be that way. The raid and the criminal case could have been treated as separate. By that I mean doing as for example Pete George did (and correct me if I’m wrong), and say the raid was over the top and unjustified, but the case against Kim Dotcom was and is sound. Instead they became so invested in standing up for what they saw as an injustice that they were and are unable to accept the fact that Dotcom is guilty. With regards to Prentice he is unable to tolerate any dissension from the narrative that Dotcom, as a “victim”, must be innocent. Fisher is still banging the “secondary copyright” drum. And Bradbury has gone full blown conspiracy theorist.

    I believe that Shakespeare is about human psychology and there’s I think there are a few lessons in human psychology to be learnt here.

    Reply
    • kittycatkin

       /  27th December 2015

      Shakespeare does insults better than any writer ever. I can think of a few that would apply to Kim Dotcom.

      ‘….this bed-presser, this horseback-breaker, this huge hill of flesh…’

      ‘How is’t [Kim] since thou saw thine own knee ?’

      The devil damn thee black, thou cream-faced loon !’

      Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  27th December 2015

        Then there are the general insults like ‘Thou whoreson, beetle-headed, flap-eared knave !’

        “The son and heir of a mongrel bitch.’ (this comes as the last of a magnificent list of insults that go on and on in King Lear without repeating themselves)

        ‘Thou whoreson upright rabbit !’

        ‘Ajax, who wears his wits in his belly and his guts in his head.’

        ‘He is deform-ed, crooked, old and sere/Ill-faced, worse bodied, shapeless everywhere/Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind/Stigmatical in making, worse in mind,’

        ‘Away, you scullion ! You rampallian ! You fustillarian ! I’ll tickle your catastrophe !’

        Reply
    • Rob

       /  27th December 2015

      @Kevin
      Personally, I hope the guy walks, if for no other reason than to watch the conniption fits from some in here. Sit back with a beer and watch the heads explode.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  27th December 2015

        Your charm is showing again, Rob. Be careful or you’ll give Lefties a bad name.

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th December 2015

      ‘ are unable to accept the fact that Dotcom is guilty. ‘….and you want to be taken seriously!

      Reply

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