Cunliffe unclear, Key wrong on TPPA

David Cunliffe (like everyone else but especially politicians) should be more careful with how he words his tweets.

Toby Manhire ‏@toby_etc Feb 9
The cruellest cut of all: John Key seems to have forgotten that David Cunliffe used to be leader of the Labour Party

@DavidCunliffeMP
@toby_etc nope. He just lied about my position. I wasn’t on the March because I love the deal

This puzzled me, because Cunliffe took part in the anti-TPPA march in Auckland on February 4th, the day of the signing.

He also posted on his Facebook page with some loyal party lines:

Today, I joined thousands of Kiwis in protest against provisions in the TPPA that would undermine our sovereignty. Great to see people from all walks of life engaged and expressing their views peacefully and thoughtfully.

The New Zealand Labour Party has always stood for free trade and always will – just not at the expense of our sovereignty.

TPPACunliffe

So while he hasn’t mentioned Pharmac nor intellectual property there he is continuing with the vague ‘sovereignty’ complaint.

The “John Key seems to have forgotten that David Cunliffe used to be leader of the Labour Party” presumably arose after Key’s Statement in Parliament in Tuesday.

So it had, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, significance for the Labour Party. Do any of us know why? Well, when we think “TPP”, we think Trans-Pacific Partnership; they think “two-position party”—that is what “TPP” says to them.

This is because when it comes to David Shearer, he rightfully said to the New Zealand Herald—before he got a good spanking from the leader—“I’ll be voting for it. There’s no change there. Nothing’s changed my mind and the international interest analysis—fantastic.”

Phil Goff, he is definitely voting for it, because it is, to quote Phil, the same as the China free-trade agreement taken under Labour.

Helen Clark, she is a tremendous supporter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement.

In fact, every Labour leader in the last 20 years supports the agreement except the current one. Well, that actually is a bit debatable. So when you look at Andrew Little’s positions—and I will grant you he has had more positions than the Labour Party has had leader in the last 5 years—he says he hates the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement.

So Cunliffe may be correct in saying “He just lied about my position”, or Key was at least mistaken.

Cunliffe has arrived at his current position after vague and non-commital stances in the past.

When he first became Labour leader in September 2013 3 News reported:

As one of his first acts as leader of the Opposition, David Cunliffe has called on the Government to make public the draft of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) negotiations.

In his first full press conference, Mr Cunliffe challenged the Government to “have the courage of its convictions” and put the negotiating draft into the public domain so it can make up its own mind.

Cunliffe should have known that it was ridiculous to expect a negotiating draft of an international agreement involving 12 countries should be put in the public doman.

While Mr Cunliffe says he still needs a “detailed briefing” on the negotiations and the party has not seen the draft, he understood the concept of what the partnership could bring.

“There are some real fish hooks with it.”

These include intellectual property issues and investor and state relations, he says.

While Labour’s leader in March 2014 Cunliffe spoke at a TPPA protest rally but was non-committal then:

Labour leader David Cunliffe spoke at the Auckland rally but would not state his party’s final position on the TPPA.

“I’m going to wait until I see the details.”

The TPPA was a “fundamentally important agreement” but the public did not know what was included in the text, he said.

“There’s a wide range of opinions, some people are absolutely opposed, some people think it’s a great deal and the fact is nobody really knows because there’s 300 pages of details in [trade minister] Tim Groser’s safe and he’s not showing anybody and that’s wrong,” Cunliffe said.

During the election campaign in August 2014 Cunliffe said:

Labour Party leader David Cunliffe said the party would act based on the merits of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. He said it was not possible at present to assess the merits of the deal, because the Government was refusing to release the draft texts.

During Labour’s leadership contest in late 2014 Cunliffe  expressed concerns about the TPPA: (no longer waiting until he saw the details, which weren’t released until a year later):

I am concerned about the TPPA. We cannot trade-away our ability to set government regulation. I am worried that John Key and his Government will continue to keep us all in the dark about the text and its implications and I fear they will then present us with the final text some time near the end of this year and insist that we accept it otherwise we will harm our trading relationships.

This will leave us with little or no opportunity to consult with our communities about its potential implications.

We must protect Pharmac, ensure intellectual property provisions are suitable for New Zealand business, and we must not accept limits on our sovereign right to regulate. Any agreement must be in New Zealand’s best interest.

That was to a Labour audience as opposed to the voting public.

There is plenty of time for MPs to consult with their communities. Public submissions can now be made in Parliament on International treaty examination of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA).

Pharmac and intellectual property provisions have caused little real concern, and Labour’s fall back stance on ‘sovereign rights’ and ‘our ability to set government regulation’ seems quite lame.

But now Cunliffe knows the detail of the agreement, and there should be fewer concerns than he had previously expressed about it, he has become an active protester against the TPPA.

However Key may not have known about this strengthening of Cunliffe’s anti-TPPA stance.

This will probably be added to BliP’s list of John Key ‘lies’ but it’s debatable whether it was a deliberate false claim through omitting Cunliffe’s current TPPA stance, or he just got it wrong.

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58 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  13th February 2016

    Cunnliffe has been consistent in his position re the TPPA.Key is a consistent liar.

    Reply
    • kiwi guy

       /  13th February 2016

      Blazer is a Comrade, so he is a pathological liar who says and believes anything that supports his Marxist narrative.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  13th February 2016

        name one lie.

        Reply
        • Iceberg

           /  13th February 2016

          Doer upper
          Happily married
          Need more?

          Reply
          • kiwi guy

             /  13th February 2016

            LOL, awesome, funny how Cunliffe got dumped by his big mouth feminist war pig wifey, barely out of the election debacle.

            I almost feel sorry for Progressive males when I see the females they are stuck with, then I remember they voluntarily cut their own balls off for the Progressive Cause.

            Reply
            • Joe Bloggs

               /  13th February 2016

              Do you ever give that misogynistic, homophobic ranty mouth of yours a rest KG? Perhaps a little less hate-speech and a little more psychoanalysis into your issues might be in order.

          • John Schmidt

             /  13th February 2016

            Burn

            Reply
  2. kiwi guy

     /  13th February 2016

    The rest of NZ has given up trying to follow Labour’s flip flopping, u turns, in fighting on TPP, why should Key be expected to?

    Key is accurate when he refers to Labour as Two Positions Party, lol.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  13th February 2016

      of course to the Natz the TPPA …means…The Perfect Poodle Americain.

      Reply
      • kiwi guy

         /  13th February 2016

        How about you actually go educate yourself on the TPP instead of swallowing the propaganda of that shriveled up old Marxist lesbian, Kelsey.

        Reply
      • John Schmidt

         /  13th February 2016

        And there it is. Stop pretending you are anti TPPA. You are anti US along with most of your comrades. Every point you make eventually ends in anti US sentiment, it is the basis of all your arguments. Had the US not been a signatory it would be a totally different conversation.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  13th February 2016

          Stop making assumptions.Try finding out about the TPPA and its implications instead of being a blind,loyal right wing lapdog.

          Reply
          • John Schmidt

             /  13th February 2016

            No assumption. Read every thread ypu have contributed to and it mostly contains or ends with your anti US vitriol. It’s all there to be read. With a response like that I clearly have hit a nerve.
            I understand the TPPA and disagree with the arguments against because those that oppose are embellishing or interpreting the agreement that does not reflect the intent of the words or even the direct meaning of the words. Every anti argument is easily defeated by counter argument.

            Reply
            • Rob

               /  13th February 2016

              “I understand the TPPA and disagree with the arguments against because those that oppose are embellishing or interpreting the agreement that does not reflect the intent of the words or even the direct meaning of the words. Every anti argument is easily defeated by counter argument.” Bullshit.
              Just like your Cristchurch bomb. No evidence or reports that I can find other than one person who thought a bomb may have gone off in a toilet. Prove me wrong and I will apologise but I think you’re full of it on both counts.
              Get a hobby, sitting around making up stories isn’t good for you.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  13th February 2016

              The bomb was reported at the time. It happened the same day as the Hamilton match was cancelled so it was overwhelmed by that story. No one was hurt and no one was caught so it died among all the rest of the tour drama and conflict. JS is right and you are wrong as well as ungracious and rude – as usual.

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              Prove it. You can’t tell me that there is absolutely nothing about it in history. You do and I will apologize.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th February 2016

              Rob, I couldn’t care less what you believe or apologize for. Though I’m thinking perhaps your parents could apologize for you.

            • John Schmidt

               /  14th February 2016

              Thank you for the abuse and questioning of my integrity. If you are relying on the Internet to check the validity of the story then you will be disappointed. It was 1981 when the Internet did not exist as a public forum. If you are that anal to question the validity of the story you will need to go the the Christchurch Press office and check their records. AW has confirmed the story and as he pointed out no one was injured or killed which was pure chance and because there was much more going on with the tour it quickly disappeared out of the media. You offered to apologise so I am waiting.

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              Put it in here and I will apologize.

            • John Schmidt

               /  14th February 2016

              I was wrong about the info not being on the intrrnet. Found references to it straight away with little effort as per below so you cannot have made much effort. The article in history NZ only talks about events at each game so does not mention events that occurred away from game venues.
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:1981_South_Africa_rugby_union_tour

              This bow link is a memior of one of the protesters and it speaks of the dissapointment felt by HART with the bomb.
              https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://digital-library.canterbury.ac.nz/data/library3/archives/113559.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiT_teN5fbKAhXHmpQKHbTkDMkQFgg_MAg&usg=AFQjCNFFWbTFdrfpZ50QlzDPFuXWcVVMSQ&sig2=HrO2nbh7Ns95GedofTrU_g

              Now it’s your turn to do to do the honorable thing.

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              “….it speaks of the dissapointment felt by HART with the bomb.” It does no such thing, “I was unhappy about bomb – although I never knew if HART-inspired.” I being the key word. One unnamed biased persons ‘memoir’. Could merely have been a rumour as there is still no substantiated proof offered, at all.
              I’ve asked others who were around at the time and none can remember anything about a bomb.
              And I don’t believe for an instant Wilkinsons assertion that it was covered up by the media as they were spreading rumours themselves such as the broken glass on fields thing according to your first link.
              “…the honorable thing.”? Sure, when you offer up some proof because what you’ve put in here isn’t proof of anything. Alls you’ve given me is two people saying it happened, one of whom is you.

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              My apologies to Wilkinson as he didn’t say they covered it up. And leave my family out of it you piece of crap.

            • Blazer

               /  13th February 2016

              ‘ it mostly contains or ends with your anti US vitriol. ‘…this is not correct,but you have a position set in stone…quite remarkable for a bloke who defied the establishment to support the U.SSR!(or was that just blatant un principled self interest )

            • John Schmidt

               /  14th February 2016

              Was not support for USSR it was the Olympics and the Olympic movement. I trained for 8 years 5 hours a day as an amateur to position myself to be an Olympian. To then find myself being used as a political tool hurt. To see my Olympic dream taken from me hurt. To have 8 years of toil go down the toilet hurt. The Olympic Committee held a function at the Olympic Muesum in Wellington in 2010 to acknowledge the Moscow Olympic team. After all these years people cried at this event such was the hurt. You are sbsolutely right it was self interest but it’s reasons is probably something you will never understand.

            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              how’d you get on after all that effort and angst btw?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th February 2016

              @Blazer, why would you think you deserve a reply?

            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              ‘To then find myself being used as a political tool hurt. To see my Olympic dream taken from me hurt. To have 8 years of toil go down the toilet hurt. ‘…you went for gods sake..cry me a river..and performed like an amateur your performance was embarrassing.

            • John Schmidt

               /  14th February 2016

              Blazer.
              No did not go to Moscow I was in one of the sports that were forced to withdraw, the government prevented our sport from gaining overseas funds and threatened to halt any future support so we were screwed. In answer to your question what happened next I continued in my sport for a further two years however I had a young familly so as an amateur I was under huge financial pressure however the Killer blow to my Olympic dream was pressure in my workplace. My talents were being recognised and opportunities opened up which I took so retired from being an athlete and became a coach. Since 1983 to present day I have coached grass roots right tbrough to elite athletes. I have also taken on administration roles in my sport. My coaching time ended when I was diagnosed with a terminal disease in 2013 with no treatment or cure with a 3-5 year life expectancy. Middle of last year with about a month to live I had major surgery which gives me a 50% chance of living a further 5 years and 20% chance for 10 years. I continue in my administration role despite my serious health situation. Began the sport in 1971 so it’s been a life time commitment. Twice in my life I have been reduced to 42 cents in the bank. The day I left home at 18 to start a job in a different city and when I got married. Throughtout this period my talents have continued to be recognised and through years of hard work, today I enjoy a 6 figure salary contributing $1000’s of dollars per week to taxation to primarily pay for NZ’s social programs. So feel free to trivialize that you bastard your river of tears comment says much more about you than it will ever do about me.

            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              sincere apologies for my earlier post …respect.

  3. Mike C

     /  13th February 2016

    Cunliffe just never seems to learn from his mistakes 🙂

    What on earth made him think he wouldn’t get spotted in that anti-TPPA crowd.

    The man is about 7 feet tall … so his head sticks out up above everybody else’s like a giraffes. LOL.

    Reply
    • mrMan

       /  13th February 2016

      That tweet should be read as “I wasn’t there because I love it, I was there because I hate it”
      not ” I wasn’t at the protest, I love the TPP”

      Comprehension Fail.

      Reply
      • SteveRemmington

         /  13th February 2016

        It would have made more sense if Cunliffe had of tweeted: I wasn’t there because I love it, I was there because I was out hunting some pussy at the rally.

        At least that would have been more believable.

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  13th February 2016

      have you got the brain of a bovine or just mad cow disease…’@toby_etc nope. He just lied about my position. I wasn’t on the March because I love the deal’…..clue…don’t take it literally.

      Reply
  4. Iceberg

     /  13th February 2016

    I’ve said it before, Labour aligning themselves with Kelsey is the end for them. With Mana gone, the Greens have the looney vote stitched up. Why not let them have it and go for the Centre?

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  13th February 2016

      who cares if you’ve said it before..?No one.

      Reply
      • kiwi guy

         /  13th February 2016

        Iceberg makes an excellent point.

        Why don’t you go back to The Standard echo chamber, you obviously can’t handle anyone having a different view to you.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  13th February 2016

          look this up in a dictionary….irony.

          Reply
        • Rob

           /  13th February 2016

          Why don’t you go back to stormfront, you obviously can’t handle anyone having a different view to you. Can’t handle women either can you KG. Bullied by little girls at school and still crying about it. Projecting all those insecurities of yours onto others isn’t going to help.

          Reply
  5. Joe Bloggs

     /  13th February 2016

    PG, I think you are misrepresenting Cunliffe’s comment that “I wasn’t on the March because I love the deal”

    I read Cunliffe’s comment, not as a denial he was on the march, but as a denial that he loved the deal.

    Nit-picky stuff, maybe, but that’s exactly what your comment “This puzzled me, because Cunliffe took part..” is

    Reply
    • It puzzled me because initially ‘I love the deal’ stood out. I can see what I think he meant but as the headline says, he was unclear, and I start the post saying he should be more careful how he words his tweets.

      Reply
  6. At least the ‘factions to the left’ seem to be allowed to express differing opinions..
    those on ‘the right.. Team Key’ are united in one voice “Zeig Hile Mein Fuhrer” ! :/ 🙂

    Reply
    • Zedd once again compares Key and National supporters to Hitler and Nazis.

      You are mentally sick Zedd. Seriously – you come across as a teenage boy. You have to be really fucked up in the head to seriously compare John Key (a Jew) to Hitler.

      This blog has become taken over by nutters like Blazer, Zedd and Kiwi Guy.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  13th February 2016

        You left out Oliver and Rob? And for column metres squattered and occupied how can you miss PZ?

        Reply
        • Broadspectrum Al …

          Reply
          • Imagine having roughly common opinions with some other people and consequently being perceived as a faction of the like-minded? How f@*king bizarre! Alan, Goldie, Pantsdown, dave1924, John Schmidt, Brown, Kiwi Guy and IceBerg et al …. Nahhh, they’re not like that.

            Oh, and for territory occupied you can’t go past bjmarsh1.

            Reply
            • Pnz…. I am a single person with my own views sometimes in concurrence with others but not always – for instance Alan W and I have clashed a fair bit over the flag debate…

              But the key difference from some in here is I own my shit and if I am wrong on fact I will withdraw and apologise. Others on here won’t – they just keep on spreading lies and half truths, demeaning others integrity and ranting like 17 year children. I won’t name them PnZ because I am ignoring their rubbish – but I think you know who I am referring to..

            • @ dave1924 – “I am a single person with my own views sometimes in concurrence with others but not always”. Exactly! Exactly like everyone else.

              I do agree there are commenters who degenerate all too quickly into name calling, personal attack and sparring. Two very long bouts of “pedantry” on here yesterday prove it. I have done this myself. I try not to. (I just write really long comments instead!)

              I do however think there is a place for justified anger and it can only be “self-justified”?

              “They” come from both ‘sides’ which are not sides at all but individual opinions. That’s half the problem, the perception of sides.

              There are also those who ‘initiate’ such polarisation and “degeneration” in their very first comments and sometimes their topic headings and ‘articles’. I think you know who I mean …

              So “you know who I am referring to” is, in a way, simply continuing the same old line. In a wider and inevitably “utopian” sense, the world will truly improve when we can somehow see ourselves as “we” rather than “us and them” …

            • the world will truly improve when we can somehow see ourselves as “we” rather than “us and them” …

              I think there are some moves in that direction, even from the top with Clark and now Key going that way a bit with their governing arrangements.

              But with day to day behaviour in politics we have a long way to go to see a decent standard set by the major parties and their leaders. The opening debate in parliament this year was an awful advertisement for petty politics.

            • I am referring to particular individuals I decided to to engage with any more.

              I can handle your long stream of consciousness posts PnZ…don’t agree but that is ok.

              But those two particular individuals are just here to astroturf with comments to target search engines it seems to me bang on with the same old half truths and lies day after day….

              As for polaristion – yeah nah, I know KG is OTT I just ignore him

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              KG is a troll, plain and simple, and yet he can be a bit of a dark horse at times as has been evidenced in a couple of his posts. He has a few women issues I think.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  14th February 2016

            Your shortest ever! Excellent.

            I read a great quote once but I can’t find it now. It said (more cleverly) that to write well you should boil it down to the absolute essentials and when you had done that, boil it down some more.

            When you have done that you really understand what you are trying to say. And so will your readers. I do distinguish your thoughts from the others on that list who just troll brainlessly and almost never say anything worth saying.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th February 2016

              Oops, you interspersed while I was searching for my quote.

        • Rob

           /  14th February 2016

          Ahh the proprietor of Wilkinsons Whinery. I hear it’s a fine establishment
          and you can’t miss it when in Russell. Literally, you can’t miss it, you
          can hear the whining from all over the Bay of Islands. A retreat for those
          in yournz of the ‘right’ persuasion, weekends to whine away the time while
          taking in the views of the whinery and listening out for the crys of the
          whining, special viewing of Wilkinsons cork collection and creating new
          names and abusive phrases for the weekly attacks on the lefties. Funnily
          enough, pantsdown was telling us a couple of days ago that persons such as
          yourself and he don’t stoop that low. Fibber pants down strikes again.
          Perhaps a quiet circle jerk (you never know your luck eh pants down;))
          whilst pontificating on how much better you all are. I hear Valentines Day
          is going to be just fabulous. Sprays of flowers and chocolate dildos
          (kindly supplied by this weekends special guest kiwi guy) for everyone.
          He’ll be presenting two wonderful seminars, the first at 10 am, the ins
          and outs of the dildo and after a short but precise practice session, a
          light lunch and then the piece de resistance, dyeing armpit and pubic hair
          Nats Blue. All in all, a ‘righties’ dream Valentines. At kiwi guys request
          there will be no women allowed as they’re very scary and yukky.
          This package sold out very quickly and Wilkinson is very sorry he couldn’t
          accomodate you all. Due to it’s popularity he will be doing a number of
          these throughout the year so book early. Call 0900 WHINDILHAI and book
          your special place.
          Well that’s enough “…column metres squattered and occupied…”
          (squattered?) for now I hope. Ya’ll have a nice Valentines and a word of
          advice, if your going to sneak a bite of your chocolate, do it before the
          practice session.

          Reply
  7. Rob

     /  13th February 2016

    “This blog has become taken over by nutters like Blazer, Zedd and Kiwi Guy.” Nah, first 2 are fine. kiwi guy? He needs an adjustment, with a hammer.

    Reply
    • Rob

       /  13th February 2016

      And I think Zedd was referring to the followers such as yourself not Key. Just my opinion.

      Reply

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