Godwin unwelcome

Likening the National Party to the Nazis and John Key to Hitler isn’t uncommon on political forums, even here on Your NZ.

It’s a low way of arguing against a politician or a party. It’s so outlandish as to be lame, but still not a good look for those who do it.

Zedd posted this yesterday (and it got a few upticks):

At least the ‘factions to the left’ seem to be allowed to express differing opinions..
those on ‘the right.. Team Key’ are united in one voice “Zeig Hile Mein Fuhrer” ! :/ 🙂

It’s sad to see that sort of attack by association here in New Zealand.

A recent example from The Standard (Brian Smith):

This is a good example of the ‘fourth estate’ aiding and abetting the fascist surveillance state by exposing and punishing those who dare to exercise their rights and freedoms. Ponytailgate was another example of the Herald exposing and punishing someone exercising her rights and freedoms (if you think that sexual harassment by a PM should not be made public, you clearly are a fascist who does not believe in democracy). At least the Nazi’s were upfront with their Ministry of Propaganda.

This is bad enough (dirty politics) but relatively tame when compared to other attacks. I’ve just seen a bad one on Facebook, with someone defending it as ‘protest art’ – I think that art should at least be original. And this from the last election :

It’s bad enough using this sort of imagery at all in New Zealand, but especially so considering that Key’s mother was a Jewish refugee who escaped the Holocaust.

This sort of thing is as bad as some of the worst attacks I have seen on Helen Clark and her Labour led government.

Leave a comment

217 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  14th February 2016

    alot of right wingers view Key as a real National socialist, so Nazi is quite appropriate.Bringing Key’s mother into the discussion as a jewess who ‘escaped’ the Holocaust is a standard diversion line, that relies on sympathy and guilt.Past oppression is not the sole burden of the Jew,although their international media prescence have tirelessly tried to condition the rest of the world that it is.

    Reply
    • “alot of right wingers view Key as a real National socialist,”

      Can you back that claim up?

      “National Socialism is the ideology and practice associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party and Nazi state as well as other far-right groups.”

      Key and his National Government are criticised from the right mostly for not doing anywhere near enough.

      Reply
    • BTW, Redbaiter doesn’t count as “alot of right wingers”.

      Reply
  2. Oliver

     /  14th February 2016

    Hitlers father was jewish- John Keys mother was jewish.

    They both have fascist ideology.

    They both have weired fetishes that are antisocial.

    I agree pete theres not much of a comparision.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  14th February 2016

      Infantile drivel as usual, Oliver. Don’t you belong on Stuff with all the other adolescent air heads?

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  14th February 2016

        Wilkies wonderful world of wankery.

        Reply
        • Mike C

           /  14th February 2016

          @Blazer

          AlanW’s comment and insult was directed at Oliver … not you … so why did you feel the need to jump in and give your opinion of AlanW on Olivers behalf? 😦

          Reply
          • kiwi guy

             /  14th February 2016

            Because they are Marxist comrades – “solidarity” and all that.

            Reply
          • Blazer

             /  14th February 2016

            so if its between Wilkie and Oliver…same question why are you concerned?

            Reply
          • Rob

             /  14th February 2016

            It’s a blog, all posts are open to comment from anyone. Get with it Mike. And yes you’re correct, it was an insult which I’ve been told the right in here don’t stoop to. Go figure.

            Reply
            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              John Key is Jewish; Hitler’s father was not.

              The Jewish ancestry of Hitler is a hoary old urban myth that has been debunked many times-apart from anything else, his grandmother wasn’t working for a Jewish family at the appropriate time, and this has been proved.

              If he had been considered to be Jewish, and everyone knew it, he’d have been a fool to instigate the Holocaust-he’d have been in one of the camps.

              As John Key’s mother was a survivor of the Holocaust, it is a gross insult to say that he would lead a party that is anything like the Nazis. One might as well say that the Labour Party are like Stalin’s Communists. And neither seig nor hile are real German words-I think that Zedd must mean ‘Sieg heil.’ ‘ Seig hile’ is meaningless gibberish.. .

            • @ KCK – “One might as well say that the Labour Party are like Stalin’s Communists.” You jest, surely? No-one ever says that!

              “In 1933, the London Daily Mirror published a picture of a gravestone in a Jewish cemetery in Bucharest inscribed with some Hebrew characters and the name Adolf Hitler but it is now known that this Bucharest Hitler could not have been the Nazi leader’s grandfather. At the time, though, this picture sufficiently worried Hitler that he had the Nazi law defining Jewishness written to exclude Jesus Christ and himself.

              Despite the claims, Adolf Hitler was not Jewish”

              https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/hitlerjew.html

              What a tangled web his ancestry is though –

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_family

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              Kitty you comments are always outrageous borderline conspiricy nut theory. Even wikipedia says that Hitler was a jew. And like key he was a zionist jew.

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              Wikipedia says that? Don’t worry, we’ll change it when we get home.

            • You’ll have to enter it on Wiki mrMan, it’s not there.

              “no record has been produced of Leopold Frankenberger’s existence,[8] so historians dismiss the claim that Alois’s father was Jewish.”[9][10]

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              Yes, Wikipedia says that Hitler wasn’t Jewish-that the supposed Jewish family whose son was Alois Hitler’s father wasn’t in the town at the time and so on…

              A Zionist Jew ? I hardly think so when he wasn’t a Jew.

              I meant, of course. that saying that about the National Party was as absurd as saying the other thing about Labour.

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              And here are the all important DNA results that prove( like John Key) Hitler was a jew. You cant argue with science. And if you were wrong about this then theres a good chance you are wrong about the holocaust.
              http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html

            • @ Oliver – and here’s a debunking –

              “In 2010, the British paper The Daily Telegraph reported that a study had been conducted in which saliva samples were collected from 39 of Hitler’s known relatives to test their DNA origins and found, though inconclusively, that Hitler may have Jewish origins. The paper reported: “A chromosome called Haplogroup E1b1b1 which showed up in [the Hitler] samples is rare in Western Europe and is most commonly found in the Berbers of Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, as well as among Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews … Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population.” Again, this study, though scientific by nature, is inconclusive”

              https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/hitlerjew.html

              Some tiny fraction of DNA hereditary does not a Jew make anyway. Jewish is both racial and a religious practice and sectarian within that practice. Hitler would almost certainly not have known about his DNA, he wrote the law on Jewishness specifically not to include him and now you ask us to believe he …. what? Conspired with who to do what?

              You’ve blown it this time Oliver, simple as that.

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              And the holocaust is a zionist jew conspircy theory. Its been debunked by many historians. It was part of the post war propaganda. Because the victor writes the history.

            • I hope I’m not breaking a pre-set or unspoken rule by responding to this?

              Oliver, why would you cut your own legs off at the armpits? Are you trying to invoke the Anti-Deformation League? Or are you trying to invoke general outrage and get censored by PG?

              I understand you are free to say what you say and believe what you believe.

              IMHO, at the very worst, and this cannot be stressed enough – AT THE VERY WORST – if the Rothschild conspiracy theory is 100% correct, Rothschild-Zionist-Illuminati financed the war on both sides and allowed &/or supported the slaughter of Jews to convince them the only place they’d be safe afterwards was Israel. How else, goes the theory, “could the Zionists … ensure Jews leave the beautiful European cities in which they live, in order to settle in a desert!”

              This is supported on the below website by this quote – February 18th, 1943, Zionist, Izaak Greenbaum, head of the Jewish Agency Rescue Committee, in a speech to the Zionist Executive Council states, “One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland!”

              Regardless of the forces which brought it about, there can be no doubt the slaughter itself actually occurred.

              Like FEMA camps and organised world depopulation, the ‘Illuminati’ conspiracy motivation is “conceivable” – it can be imagined – and is therefore remotely “possible”.

              Interestingly, it also falls into the category of external determination theory like ‘a singular political consciousness rules the world’ which is not so very different from a single spiritual consciousness or ‘One True God’? A ‘materialist’ version of the same basic “need” perhaps?

              http://www.wakeupkiwi.com/The-Conspiracy-to-Rule-the-World-1.shtml

              Holocaust denial is a whole subject unto itself –

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              Your wrong on this one PDB. I’ll admit that I was skeptical at first but when I looked into it there is a mountain of credible evidence, including from actual jews who were there it became apperent that this holocaust was a hoax.

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              I wonder how the deniers explain away the actual existence of the camps and the records kept by the Germans themselves. It has been claimed that the photos and films were done in Hollywood (highly likely, I DON’T think) but what about the films of local Germans being taken to the camps ? Were all these people flown to Hollywood as well ? Where did all the skeletons and people’s possessions come from ? Where did the 6,000,000 Jews go ? How were so many people in different countries persuaded to tell the same stories ? What about the letters written by the killers to their families ? Or the photos of known Germans in the camps ? Why did some perpetrators admit to it, if it didn’t exist ?

              If the films were set up, who were all the skeletal people (one would have to starve oneself to a dangerous level) and who were the ones who posed as the bodies being pushed into the mass graves ?

              Why did some German companies pay compensation to slave labourers if they never used people as slave labour ?

            • Bring it Oliver …?

              It’s not PDB, its PartisanZ. I generally have time for your comments and find many worthy of consideration, if a little abrasive.

              Not this time. So bring it!?

              I’ve put 2 links up there, one for a vaguely ‘affiliated’ conspiracy theory, although it in no way supports “holocaust as hoax” because that cannot be supported. I’ve included a link about the phenomenon of ‘holocaust denial’.

              Where’s yours …?

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              So all those survivors with tattoos did it themselves and somehow made sure that no two had the same number ?

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              And how inconsiderate of all the Jews and others, like gays and Gypsies, to not bother to make contact with anyone after the war if they were alive and well and hadn’t been murdered at all.

              It’s also odd that nobody seems to have noticed 6,000,000 Jews turning up-the usual story is that they went to America. How could even a large country absorb 6,000,000 immigrants with no questions being asked ?

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              6 Millon? Can you prove that? Offical census records show that only 240000 died over the coruse of ww2. Mostly from disease.

            • I’ll take your word for that Oliver.

              Bring it son? Evidence? Links? Put up or shut up?

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              Don’t ever leave the country Oliver, NZ’s got a history of refusing entry to holocaust deniers.

            • Your not wrong about that mrMan. Oliver, you should probably avoid going to Austria too. According to the ‘Wake Up NZ – World Conspiracy’ website –

              “David Irving is sentenced to three years in jail in Austria, for denying the holocaust. It is important to note that the only historical event you can be arrested for questioning is the holocaust.

              This is because this has been the Rothschilds greatest weapon in brainwashing YOU, THE STUPID GOY! that the Jews are so poor and persecuted when in actual fact they control the vast majority of international finance and international corporations throughout the world”.

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              The fact that no forensic evidence nor traces of ‘gas chambers’ in which 3 million or more Jews (could) have been killed exists, also makes ‘Six Million murdered Jews’ impossible.
              Not a shred of concrete evidence for “gas chambers”, not a shred of forensic evidence for “mass gassings. Neither of 3 million “gassed” Jews. Not even one ‘gassed’ corpse or part thereof, while current forensic techniques makes it easy to establish such. On the contrary! Forensic investigations has given full proof that in the alleged ‘gas-chambers’ never mass-gassings could have been taken place.
              As traceless disappearance of millions of people is impossible and mass gassings are out of the question because of that, 6 million murdered Jews are for that reason alone impossible. No “gas chambers = no Six Million and No Six Million = no “gas chambers”, as simple as that.

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              What absolute drivel.

              What were the gas chambers used for ? You also seem unaware that many Jews were shot, worked to death and starved to death. The gas chambers were used to speed the process up. The bodies were burned, which would make it impossible to be precise about the numbers now, unlike burial which would at least leave skeletons. Why did the Germans try to remove the traces of something that never happened ?

              The bodies went straight from the gas chambers to the crematoriums, you bloody fool. There are photos of this. Do you think that the people who, according to you, faked the Holocaust, were able to find people willing to be burned alive for these photos to make them look real ?

              Where did all those people go, then ? They were there before, they weren’t there afterwards. Whose were the bodies ?

      • Kevin

         /  14th February 2016

        Even Prentice would ban him for drivel like that.

        Reply
        • @ Kevin – At the fight at the party, instead of everyone rushing to intervene, they simply turn and walk away. The combatants will either bash each others lights out or, more likely, stop fighting because they’re not getting the desired attention.

          Has Tricky Dick still got that Mustang for sale?

          Reply
        • kittycatkin

           /  14th February 2016

          It’s been estimated that 3% of the world’s population died in WWII. If the figure of 240,000 is correct, then there were 7,920.000 people in the world. I think not. There’s no point in trying to prove the real figures, Oliver wouldn’t believe them.

          Reply
          • mrMan

             /  14th February 2016

            Oh god, you’re not doing maths again are you?

            Reply
          • mrMan

             /  14th February 2016

            Over 60 million people were killed, which was about 3% of the 1940 world population (est. 2.3 billion). The tables below give a detailed country-by-country count of human losses. World War II fatality statistics vary, with estimates of total dead ranging from 50 million to more than 80 million.

            Reply
            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              Precisely. But if Oliver’s figure was right, the 240,000 would mean that the world’s population was then what I said; 240,000 (an absurd figure that bears no resemblance to the real one) is 3% of 7,920,000. As this is obviously nonsense, so is his figure. Don’t try to put words in my mouth and try to make it seem as I am the idiot who believes that 240,000 people died in the Holocaust and the war. You made enough of a fool of yourself the last time. If you look up, you will see Oliver’s claim.

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              Sorry to rain on your parade kitty but ….

              We assess the numbers of Jews in the world again on the basis of unsuspected Jewish sources: the World Almanac, featuring information from the American Jewish Committee and the Statistical Bureau of the Jewish Synagogue Council of America.

              Before the war:
              World Almanac 1929 (p. 727): 15,630,000
              National Council of Churches USA 1930: 15,600,000
              World Almanac 1936 (p. 748): 15,753,633
              World Almanac 1938 (p. 510): 15,748,091

              During the war:
              American Jewish Congress Council of Synagogues 1939 15,600,000
              World Almanac 1940 (p. 129): 15,319,359
              World Almanac 1942 (p. 849): 15,192,089

              After the war:
              World Almanac 1947: (p. 748): 15,688,259
              World Almanac 1948: (p. 849): 15,763,630

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              So a search for World Almanac 1948, brings up some interesting stuff.
              https://www.google.co.nz/#q=world+almanac+1948

              including …

              Holocaust denial: The World Almanac Gambit
              This is zionism: Almanacs Never Lie Jews Do
              World Almanac numbers of Jews explained – Storefront

              So, No, sorry, don’t believe you, you’re truly in league with the nut jobs , skinheads, aryan nation,

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              After the war Almanac figures (more complete)

              1941 15,748,091
              1944 15,192,089
              1947 15,688,259
              1948 15,688,259
              1949 11,266,600

              Disingenuous anti-zionist.

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              That doesnt add up to 6 million does it? Its not even close. All you have done is prove yourself wrong. You dont have a leg to stand on son.

            • mrMan

               /  15th February 2016

              It’s 4.4 million actually, but you know how the almanac works, cos you’ve read all about it. Both sides of the story, not just the disgusting line you’re following here.

            • @ Oliver – Replies have run out in the above column.
              Here’s Wiki –

              “Critics of Holocaust denial also include members of the Auschwitz SS. Camp physician and SS-Untersturmführer Hans Münch considered the facts of Auschwitz “so firmly determined that one cannot have any doubt at all”, and described those who negate what happened at the camp as “malevolent” people … Zyklon B handler and SS-Oberscharführer Josef Klehr has said that anyone who maintains that nobody was gassed at Auschwitz must be “crazy or in the wrong” … SS-Unterscharführer Oswald Kaduk has stated that he does not consider those who maintain such a thing as normal people …. Hearing about Holocaust denial compelled former SS-Rottenführer Oskar Gröning to publicly speak about what he witnessed at Auschwitz, and denounce Holocaust deniers,[165] stating:

              I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened because I was there.

              Here ends my engagement with you on this subject. There are 3 recognised methods of countering Holocaust deniers : 1) Non-engagement. Give them no oxygen. 2) Raise awareness of their methods 3) Point out their inaccuracies.

              I think 1) would have been a wiser course with you on this subject. I regret responding and I cease doing so as of now.

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              Fred A. Leuchter is America’s leading specialist on the design and fabrication of execution equipment, including homicidal gas chambers. In 1988, Leuchter scraped samples from the alleged gas chamber walls in Auschwitz, Birkenau and Lublin. Cyanide residue would be clearly evident on all these walls if gassings did occur. To his astonishment, Leuchter found no significant cyanide traces in any one of these rooms.
              In 1991, the Polish government repeated these tests to disprove Leuchter’s findings, but they as well found no evidence of any gassings ever occurring.
              The structural integrity of these “gas chambers” is also extremely faulty. These rooms have ordinary doors and windows which are not hermetically sealed! There are large gaps between the floors and doors. If the Germans had attempted to gas anyone in these rooms, they would have died themselves, as the gas would have leaked and contaminated the entire area. Also, no equipment exists to exhaust the air-gas mixture from these buildings. Nothing was made to introduce or distribute the gas throughout the chambers. There are no provisions to prevent condensation of gas on the walls, floors or ceilings. No exhaust stacks have ever existed.
              Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.
              The Germans documented everything in meticulous detail from shrubbery to arbors, but no pre-war or wartime plans or documents exist that detail or even mention any gas chambers for reasons of genocide. All documents ever presented were drawn up AFTER the war.
              Even if we threw away all the evidence and accounted for every so-called gas chamber, it would have taken 68 YEARS to accomplish gassing six million Jews!

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              What disturbing stuff will we find when we look up Fred A. Leuchter?

              Fred Arthur Leuchter, Jr. (born February 7, 1943) is an American Holocaust denier

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              Not shit he has been smeard for whistleblowing. They did the same shit to assange, snowdon and kim.

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              “You made enough of a fool of yourself the last time”
              You really need to go back to that and read it in the cold light of day, but it’s kinda cute that you still think I’m wrong.

              Oliver is also a fool.

  3. Blazer
    “alot of right wingers view Key as a real National socialist,”

    You will favour us with a link proving this won’t you?

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  14th February 2016

      I cant list their names due to the legal restrictions of the Privacy Act.But I’m sure you are aware of many right wingers who view things like putting up benefits by $25 as being extremely ‘socialist’.

      Reply
      • That’s not “National Socialist”.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  14th February 2016

          if your party is the National Party and it is seen as being socialist in its policy= National Socialist…period.

          Reply
          • That’s a very poor argument. And ignorant, if it’s not deliberately dishonest.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              you are being so subjective,and offering a multiple defence
              1-poor arguement
              2-ignorant
              3-dishonest.

              they add up to=fail.

            • You’re the one who has failed to substantiate an extreme claim, again. I guess you will try continued diversion and excuse making. Doesn’t change the obvious.

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              Its name is the National Party. It does something that can be seen as a socialist action (lower case). It is therefore the National Socialist Party, aka Nazis.

              Eh ?

              My dog is an animal. Cats are animals. Therefore my dog is a cat.

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              I hope that nobody thought that I was agreeing with this bizarre idea that because the National party does what could be interpreted as a socialist action that that makes it the National Socialist Party !

              That really is the all As are Bs, therefore all Bs are As wrong logic, or a version of it..

      • artcroft

         /  14th February 2016

        Geez Blazer I’ve seen lame responses before but I think you just found a whole new level below the barrel to scrap.

        Reply
      • Mike C

         /  14th February 2016

        @Blazer

        A $25.00 benefit “Pay Rise” is a huge increase per person for New Zealand Tax Payers to have to suck up … in exchange for the Beneficiaries doing absolutely nothing 😦

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  14th February 2016

          imagine if you shot all beneficiaries tomorrow.There would be chaos,the middle class would be gutted,small business’ going down like flies,mortgagee sales,despair,suicide,anarchy….believe it…or not!

          Reply
          • @ Mike C – 🙂

            – 110,000 ‘targeted’ (or stigmatised) beneficiaries receive a $25 benefit increase on 1 April 2016 (I think?) of the 301,000 working age people receiving a main benefit. It is a lot of money, yes. At the same time, State House rent increases as do requirements for child care, job seeking and employment expectations when children are younger than previously (down from 5 to 3 I think?) or, in other words, virtual “enforced childcare” 😦

            – Beneficiaries don’t do “absolutely nothing”. To say so is simply to identify yourself as having been “sucked in” by the propoganda. :-/

            https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/statistics/benefit/post-sep-2013/all-main-benefits/latest-quarterly-results.html

            Cheers

            Reply
            • Mike C

               /  14th February 2016

              @PZ

              Indulge me 🙂

              If they aren’t going to work … then what are the Beneficiaries doing all day ???

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              As far as I know, it’s not across the board, it’s only for families.

            • Mike C

               /  14th February 2016

              @Kitty

              Great !!!

              So we are encouraging the Unemployed or Solo Parents to continue to breed … without them having to ever bother to get a job.

              Fucking Fantastic 🙂

            • @ Mike C – See below. 🙂 There are new and more stringent requirements for them to seek work, get a job and utilize childcare, something I suspect WINZ will also focus on because solo parents are very often young people.

              But hell, nothing a good compulsory sterilization program wouldn’t fix, eh? 😦

              Actually, do you know, I wonder what would happen if someone suggested sterilizing the men? Young fathers for instance: one ‘strike’ (or ‘sire’) and you’re out? Or just sterilize all the young males who don’t get Level 3 NCEA? Or those with more than 2 drink drive convictions? :-/

              Has KG suggested this before? Probably have a political and/or racial component as well if he did …? 🙂

            • @ KCK – As far as I know it is for Sole-Parents? It may include Low-paid workers as well as beneficiaries? I honestly can’t look it up AGAIN right now.

              @ Mike – Beneficiaries or people who are not “producers” in your terminology, who, for various reasons – such as perhaps young children or health – are not currently included on the traditional “supply side”, still continue to do things like breath, eat, drink, require shelter, clothing, transport, education, community and indeed ‘discretional’ goods and services. In short, they tend to “demand” or “consume”. 🙂 [Blazer provided a bit of a list above]

              They rear children, keep homes and many also do valuable voluntary work in their communities … They are part of the social fabric.

              If the fact they are not presently in paid employment – “the highest ambition of humanity – the very definition of self-fulfilment”(Morgan/Guthrie) – counts them out of the human race then I guess that’s your stuff … :-/

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              @Mike C
              Are you one of those that if circumstances took a turn for the worse you’d see yourself as perfectly entitled to collect some form of benefit but those damn bennies, just a bunch of bludgers. Plenty of those types around. Kind of like the generation who got a free tertiary education and would now begrudge anyone else getting one.

            • PnZ – why say Stigmatised?

              That is a very emotive word to apply to a cohort of people that parties of the Left, Labour and the Greens, have banged the drum about needing more cash for a while.

              So the current government has targeted additional financial assistance for them.

              How the hell is that being stigmatised? How is that “to set some mark of disgrace or infamy upon”? Really? Really?

              Keys government stumps a benefit rise for a cohort of beneficiaries they have identified as needing more help – and bumped up a benefit rate for reasons other than inflation for the first time in decades and you say the poor recipients have been stigmatised [“to set some mark of disgrace or infamy upon”]

              And you wonder why a vast swathe of the NZ Populace shake their heads at the Left wing parties rhetoric here in NZ and vote National.

            • @ dave1924 – I don’t care what people vote. I explained that earlier. The only government we have any chance of getting is slightly left-of-centre anyhow.

              All right, I have embellished my reply to Mike C with “stigmatized” for these reasons – for which I am not apologizing –
              1) I don’t trust Mike C. Previous questions of hers like this have been traps. I figured I might as well just take and ‘flavor’ the bait. Her reply to Miss Kitty pre-empted me anyway and proved her position is as I expected.
              2) I absolutely do believe that sole parents are the most stigmatized beneficiaries in NZ. This is what I meant to say. Key and Bennett have used tactics to stigmatize them in the past. Pity I can only provide links you are unlikely to read – see http://thestandard.org.nz/key-is-blaming-child-poverty-on-wait-for-it-drugs/
              3) The benefit rise was, I believe, targetted at ‘Child Poverty’ and there is considerable contention about whether it achieves this objective.

              “It gives no poor child a cent more until 2016, leaves out vast swathes of the poor; ignores the social deficit and fails to grapple with any of the structural issues in welfare or tax credits.

              [Thus] Working for Families was geared to meet the needs of children; welfare benefits the needs of the adults. Re-introducing a family element in the adult benefit rate is a very poor way to help children. For example in a 4-child 2-parent family the $25 has to be shared among 6 people”

              Link with provisos as above – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/05/26/carrot-attack-to-get-those-lazy-sole-parents-working/#sthash.uV8b3BWX.dpuf

              I just googled these links now. My previous reading around the subject was primarily on RadioNZ’s website.

              I exaggerate for effect. I can’t help it. It seems to be in my nature. I do not believe it crosses into trolling ever, or if ever, only on the very rarest of occasions. I believe the problem is ‘systemic poverty’ – the social deficit – not child poverty.

            • Sigh…….

              Systemic poverty? Social deficit? Not Child Poverty!

              I love these terms invented by committed socialist who want anyone above a certain income relieved of their income so:
              others don’t need to pursue an education,
              participate in training,
              work in the same old job forever !!!!!or sit on a benefit,
              have more kids than they can support on their own resources and effort

              Its a beautiful thing – don’t worry we will look after you forever just give us the power at the election and you never need worry again….

              Dress it up with emotive language and harrowing images and bobs your uncle 39% top tax rate will fix it

              And yes I have read the the Standards dismissal of the benefit rise…. it was just phantom money, not enough, you can’t expect people to seek work!! Good god this New Zealand!!

              Personal the day I have to face a 39% top tier tax rate is the day I quit work and go on the benefit… if its good enough for everyone else it will be good enough for me no doubt

            • Child Poverty is a term invented by committed neoliberal capitalists to divert attention from the real issues, low-wage economy, under-employment and ‘systemic’ unemployment leading to Family Poverty where children suffer most.

              Certainly any real solution will involve a reiteration, reinvention and regrowth of personal responsibility. I don’t want you to think for a moment I don’t believe that’s a very important element.

              But the problem is much broader and deeper than the old “get a job” dictum can ever fix and, what’s more, I doubt it can be fixed quickly now. It may take a generation or more?

              As a “market society” we have gone past “get a job” as a solution. I don’t know the answer but its going to take a lot of working out.

              Alternatively, we just allow the divide between rich and poor, shrinking middle class, growing inequality and increasing actual poverty continue and see where it gets us. This will be the outcome of the political system we are presently embedded in. Only Labour is talking about “Future of Work” (Oh jeez, I mentioned a Party name. I must therefore be a card carrying fanatical member of that Party). Party politics is one of the major problems, a huge hurdle in progress “going forward”.

              You strike me as an intelligent and ‘productive’ person. If you went on a benefit I’d bet money you’ll find yourself doing useful community work before you know it, possibly for as many hours or more as you used to “work”. I have experienced this …. and on we go ….

            • jamie

               /  14th February 2016

              dave: “Personal the day I have to face a 39% top tier tax rate is the day I quit work and go on the benefit”

              The threshold I have heard bandied around for an additional tax tier is $150,000.

              If you were eligible for such a rate you would be accustomed to living on around $3000 a week ($156,000) which works out to well over $2000 after tax at current rates of 33%, 30%, 17.5%, 10.5%.

              I don’t think you would enjoy the transition to around $300 a week on a benefit.

  4. mrMan

     /  14th February 2016

    Godwin’s Law doesn’t say “you can’t mention the Nazis”, Godwins law states that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1”. That discussion was very long, it was guaranteed to happen. You don’t get to choose which laws of nature or behaviour apply

    Also why have you tagged this “NATZI”, no one says that -you’re admonishing others whilst introducing your own slur. Godwin before a comment was even made. World record. Yay.

    Reply
      • mrMan

         /  14th February 2016

        Your pet bogeymen.
        I mean no-one says that in your article above. It’s not in the quotes, it’s not in your text. It’s just in your tags. Like I said instant godwin, well done sir.

        Reply
        • The first word of the post title was ‘Godwin’, so yeah, instant. That was the point.

          But I don’t know what your point is – are you in a round about way (by trying to attack the messenger) defending the association of Key and National with Hitler and the Nazis?

          Reply
          • mrMan

             /  14th February 2016

            Ugh, I’m saying that by including the word “NATZI” in the tags, of your own volition, you invoked godwins law instantly – before anyone had a chance to comment.

            Reply
            • I deliberately ‘invoked Godwin’s law’ – that’s a major point of the post.

              It seems odd that you are attacking something I thought was obvious, while ignoring the point of using Hitler and Nazism in discussions about New Zealand politics.

              Isn’t it extreme criticism in a very moderate political environment in New Zealand?

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              Your logical fallacy is tu quoque

          • Blazer

             /  14th February 2016

            there are valid comparisons….look at the Gestapo…the west including us have now given govts unprecedented legal powers over citizens rights to ‘keep us safe’!,

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th February 2016

              There are two possibilities when reading any Blazer comment. Either the guy is so twisted he has no idea of reality or he will say anything in order to troll.

              I’m inclined to the view both are true.

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              Same as you. It’s obvious some of your comments are trolling, simply meant to provoke a reaction. Opinions are opinions, we all have one and use it to provoke at times, and you can’t deny that. At times I think even you don’t believe what you’re saying, merely provocation.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th February 2016

              Name one.

            • I think there is some veracity to the “loss of freedoms and privacy in exchange for ‘security'” argument, which I thought would concern someone like you Alan, given your penchant for maximum freedom and reduced government?

              Okay, its not the end of the world, its not the only issue in the mix, its definitely not ‘Nazism’ but I think there’s a natural human tendency to reference the greatest extreme when trying to make a point.

              In a way, reference to the tenets of “anarcho-capitalism” is a similar resort?

  5. Rob

     /  14th February 2016

    I’ve seen the left referred to as nazis in here as well. One is no worse than the other. As I said, I think Zedd was referring more to the followers rather than Key himself.

    Reply
    • Nazi,Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Natinal Socialist they are all ridiculous comparisons in a New Zealand political context.

      Those who can’t make strong arguments resort to extreme comparisons, easily dismissed.

      Reply
      • Rob

         /  14th February 2016

        And as I said both sides do it. I agree it has no place in a discussion, especially in NZ as we are as far away from that as could be I think. One in particular uses all of what you’ve pointed out in his attacks on the left and ‘cultural marxists’ yet I haven’t heard a peep from you or anyone on the right condemning it. In fact it gets upticked, by whom I won’t speculate on either. Stickin to the left is all that matters to some and they don’t care how it’s done.

        Reply
        • There have been a few peeps from me addressing that particular commenter over time. It’s easy to assume that everyone knows how obviously extreme they are by now. And they are regularly challenged by others.

          Reply
          • kiwi guy

             /  14th February 2016

            Why is pointing out Cultural Marxism “extreme”?

            I have explained in political philosophy terms what and where Cultural Marxism has emerged from. No one, including you PG has put up any alternative explanation or criticism.

            A lot on the Left are literally hardcore Marxist, they are extremely proud of their pure Marxist ideological beliefs and wear it as a badge of honour.

            We know that what Marxist guided Leftist did in Russia and China dwarfed the slaughter by the Nazis.

            Comrade Blazer et al proudly celebrate their connections with that evil ideology.

            Meaning while they make up fantasy stories about Key being a “fashist nazi!!”.

            This is typical Cultural Marxist behaviour – another good example is the Feminist rape hoaxes at USA university campuses where “the accusation is the evidence.”

            Reply
            • So-called “Communist” China, Russia and Nazi Germany (and Italy) had one thing in common KG, TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIP. To compare them as “better or worse” than each other on the basis of ‘body count’ is utterly puerile, as if to say, “these three peas from the same pod are different species of peas”.

              The “ideology” of Marxism, the natural development of socialism or communism – “a society governed by a free association of producers” – a phrase Ludwig von Mise might surely be proud of – is in no way inherently evil.

              The use of intelligence and language such as you exercise daily on here is not unlike what totalitarian dictators do to “arouse” the mob.

              So you have strong connections to celebrate this Valentine’s Day yourself, the great 20th century orator dictators.

            • kiwi guy

               /  14th February 2016

              “To compare them as “better or worse” than each other on the basis of ‘body count’ is utterly puerile,”

              What happened in Russia and China went WAY beyond what the Nazis got up to.

              And yet Leftist will tell you how wonderful it all was and proudly wear their Marxist credentials like a badge of honour.

              And it is Leftist who are always screaming “:fashist” and “nazi” but refuse to face their own ideological roots.

              Marxism by its philosophical nature is always going to result in Totalitarianism – it views the world as in a state of Class War and the Class Enemy must be annihilated.

              You only have to see what the Cultural Marxists are trying to do now, its the same mentality, same obsession with an evil enemy who is oppressing them so the end justifies the means.

              That fact that you twist things around in your mind to paint a rosy picture of glorious Marxism just shows how detached from ethics, true justice and reality you and your comrades are.

            • KG – How you can take from my comment that I “twist things around in your mind to paint a rosy picture of glorious Marxism” is in itself an indication of wildly distorted thinking on your part. They are all Totalitarian Dictatorships KG and all Totalitarian Dictatorships are wrong, including the ones instituted in so-called “free” countries during wartime.

              What happened in the Americas went way beyond all three of those Totalitarian Dictatorships combined. The European colonisation of the Americas is estimated to have cost as many as 100 million lives. This to create the “free” United States (and others)?

              You’ve got exactly the “same obsession with an evil enemy who is oppressing them” as you accuse Cultural Marxists of having. It’s mostly just comical.

              If you’re not going to make it hilariously funny with pictures KG, please give it up?

            • Edit : Should read “the ideology of Karl Marx”

          • Rob

             /  14th February 2016

            I’ve seen very little condemnation by rhe ‘right’ but I could be wrong. His references to lefties worshipping Stalin et al are preposterous and anyone with half a brain should know that.

            Reply
            • kiwi guy

               /  14th February 2016

              Leftist were out and proud Stalinists and Maoists til the 70s, when virtually overnight they jumped ship and took up the French Deconstructionist nonsense.

              Now what you get is Cultural Marxism which is a mish mash of Marxist derived Deconstructionist/Social Constructionist shit talk eg the dried up old lesbian Judith Butler’s “Gender Trouble” feminist propaganda tract.

            • Mefrostate

               /  14th February 2016

              You lump groups of people into the ‘cultural marxist’ category just so that you can throw it around derogatorily. But they actually have individual and diverse views, and many won’t fit the term at all. It’s just a lazy alternative to actually criticising the specific behaviour.

              Just because some feminists might be acting in a ‘cultural marxist’ way, doesn’t mean all feminists are cultural marxists (or that that behaviour is ipso facto wrong).

              Case and point, I’m a lefty and a feminist, but I support free speech and have never called to have you banned. I just wish you would continue to engage in discussions even when the flaws in your worldview are exposed.

      • Blazer

         /  14th February 2016

        they’re not actually because they all have in common one dominating personality .In NZ ,Key sets the agenda-,asset sales,corporate payoffs,flag changing exercise,TPPA…his fans will not brook any critique of his’ initiatives’…and as for his many flaws and faux pas ,lies,pony tail pulling,and general bad taste,the adoring pretend it just aint so.And detractors with temerity exposing the new depths of Black Ops in politics and the casual disregard for protocol and plain arrogance exhibited by Keys lieutenants are hounded and smeared relentlessly, aided and abetted by compliant propaganda posing as MSM.

        Reply
        • Except that, for a start, Phil Goff and the Clark Government set the TPPA agenda.

          In his own quiet way Bill English is as just about as dominating in New Zealand politics as Key.

          And I’ve seen many criticisms of Key’s flaws and National’s arrogance from across the spectrum, including from me. And dirty politics from both sides.

          But on an international and historical scale it’s mild in comparison to the world’s worst.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  14th February 2016

            now see here…you selectively pick the TPPA and opine the std line ‘Labour did it too’…yet you must be aware Labours initiative involved about 70% less countries .Mind you yesterday MFAT was responsible.Bill English is a loser,you know that.Dirty Politics…insert ‘LDIT’!A question.. does Bush or Blair rank in your gallery of rogues?

            Reply
            • Labour’s leader up until 2011 was still very supportive of the TPPA, as was their next leader until 2013. As was their most prominent leader this century as recently as last year.

            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              thats a real arsenal you’ve got there Pete…so versatile..’LDIT’!

        • Rob

           /  14th February 2016

          “KRAS = Key Reverence and Adoration Syndrome.” as someone in here succinctly put it.

          Reply
          • kiwi guy

             /  14th February 2016

            You Progressive Dildos are never going to learn are you?

            You’ve destroyed the Labour Party – they are reduced to having to beg for donations just for a measly flyer drop.

            Congratulations, Cultural Marxists, Mission Accomplished!

            Reply
            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              Lol at the troll.

            • kiwi guy

               /  14th February 2016

              Here we go again, typical Standard comrade behaviour.

              Go back The Standard echo chamber to the rest of your comrades and preparations for your next election loss, lol.

            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              you make a good point keywee…Labour often struggle to raise campaign funds….its the sausage sizzle David to the Goliath of flush corporate ‘lobbyists’ always lurking in Nationals shadow.

            • kiwi guy

               /  14th February 2016

              No its because you Progressive Dildos have driven away hard working kiwis from the Left because you have labelled them racist sexist fat shaming class enemies.

              Keep up the good work, you might even get a personal thankyou note from John Key.

            • Rob

               /  14th February 2016

              Lol at the troll.

  6. Siggghhhh… don’t encourage them Pete. They just reveal who they are with their comments.

    Reply
  7. TheContrarian

     /  14th February 2016

    Having recently done a lot of study and research into Fascism as of late when I heard some say “John Key is a fascist” what I hear is “I don’t understand what words mean”.
    National and Key aren’t even remotely fascist.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  14th February 2016

      perhaps in light of your studies you can give us the modern definition of Fascism.thx in advance.

      Reply
      • TheContrarian

         /  14th February 2016

        Fascism is most specifically defined as Palingenetic ultranationalism. An ultra Nationalism borne of a desire of a rebirth of a nation centered around a myth of the nation being special with heroes of old that needs to regain a nations preeminence and the nation must come together with a militaristic ethos the leaves behind class distinction. Fascism also involves aggressive expansionism. There is nothing like this in NZ politics

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  14th February 2016

          in a ‘nutshell’ ..eh!

          Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  14th February 2016

            There are plenty of books around about Hitler and his regime. There are also people around who lived through it. Contrarian’s definition is as good a one as I have seen anywhere-it would be impossible to put it into a smaller compass, I think.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              I see this is not your ‘pet’ subject.

            • kittycatkin

               /  15th February 2016

              I fail to see how any conclusion could be drawn from that.

              Everyone seems to be failing to note that the Fascists were in fact Italian, they were Mussolini’s party.

    • Rob

       /  14th February 2016

      And neither are the left but the ‘right’ will do it as well so let’s keep it truthfull shall we. There are idiots on both sides of the spectrum, probably in equal numbers.

      Reply
    • Oliver

       /  14th February 2016

      Fascism is far right politics in the left-right politics spectrum. So in NZ that would be the corporate National party, under dictator John Key.

      Reply
      • The National government is far from far right, except to the far left who also see Labour as too far right..

        Reply
      • kiwi guy

         /  14th February 2016

        Then the Left should run with that meme at the next election “Key is a Fashist!!!”, I’m sure you guys will be swept into office on an avalanche.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  14th February 2016

          try not to mix your metaphors keywee,btw did you get that Valentines Day card you sent yourself?The first step in getting you to like yourself!

          Reply
          • kiwi guy

             /  14th February 2016

            Shouldn’t you be putting that question to the Labour Party?

            Mind you the Labour Party couldn’t even afford to send itself a card, lol.

            John Key should send you a Valentines Day card for all your good work destroying the Left.

            Reply
      • Act is fairly rightish economically but they are also quite liberal. National are far from far right, and Labour far from far left. This is from 2014:

        Reply
      • Oliver

         /  14th February 2016

        John Key sending troops to Iraq when parliment voted against it, is fascist.

        Reply
        • Oliver

           /  14th February 2016

          John key changing the flag when 80% of the country were against it is fascist.

          Reply
          • TheContrarian

             /  14th February 2016

            Neither of those examples are fascist

            Reply
            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              The oxford dictionary says it does. I dont think you have a clue about what fascism is.

            • TheContrarian

               /  14th February 2016

              The Oxford dictionary defines Keys policies as Fascist? The very specific for a dictionary.

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              Isn’t it just ? It can’t be the Oxford English Dictionary, of which I have a copy.

              No, nothing like that in its definition of Fascism.

            • kittycatkin

               /  14th February 2016

              And John Key hasn’t changed the flag ! Have a look at the next NZ flag you see.

            • mrMan

               /  14th February 2016

              “It can’t be the Oxford English Dictionary, of which I have a copy.”
              Why would the 1962 oxford have John Key in it?

            • kittycatkin

               /  15th February 2016

              The Oxford English Dictionary did not cease publication in 1962. My own copy is much more recent than that.

            • mrMan

               /  15th February 2016

              Why would it have ceased publication in 1962?

            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              Well you should tell john key that the flag he is wearing is not our flag.

            • kittycatkin

               /  15th February 2016

              And no, mM, I did not say that John Key was in the 1962 OED, or that his policies were there under their definition of fascist, so don’t bother to try to start an argument claiming that I did. You were the one who said the 1962 OED. Oliver said that John Key’s policies were in the OED.

            • mrMan

               /  15th February 2016

              You’re too easy, like shooting fish in a barrel. 1962 was an arbitrary year, the point being that it is unlikely that you have bought a dictionary since John Key has been prime minister, as are most people. Therefore John key couldn’t be in your dictionary. Explaining jokes sucks.

            • Rob

               /  15th February 2016

              Lol. Now an arguement over a dictionary. Gets crazier by the minute in here.

            • Kevin

               /  14th February 2016

              Try not to trip over your own feet. John Key hasn’t changed the flag and he won’t change it unless we vote for change (which we won’t).

          • Having a referendum to let the people decide on whether we change our flag is not is not fascist.

            Reply
            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              The polls that you love so much said that . But John Key went ahead with spend tax payers dollars on his flag.

            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              its not cheap…either,but is it a personal crusade initiated by one individual?

            • John Schmidt

               /  14th February 2016

              Simply implementing Labour’s policy. Had Labour been the one implementing their policy I suspect you would be hailing it. So the arguement about a flag referendum is not really about whether it should be done, the counter arguement is all about anti Key and his government. Sounds a bit shallow to me.

          • Conspiratoor

             /  14th February 2016

            @Oliver, I’ve been away and must have missed it. When did John Key change the flag?

            Reply
            • Oliver

               /  14th February 2016

              Have you been in a coma for the last 18 months? Have a look at footage of John Key at the TPP meeting, hes wearing the john key flag on his lapel and not the NZ one. Why is he wearing the John Key flag thats not our flag.

            • kittycatkin

               /  15th February 2016

              Contrarian; he hasn’t of course, but Oliver thinks that he has. Maybe Oliver thinks that the red, white and blue flag with Union Jack and Southern Cross is new and designed by John Key.

          • John Schmidt

             /  14th February 2016

            That arguement makes Labour fascist by association, it’s their policy to referendum a change in the flag.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              a referendum is the democratic way…yes or no.The Key way is I have decided,now pick from these against the incumbent flag.

            • kittycatkin

               /  15th February 2016

              Not so. One of the options is the current flag.

        • kiwi guy

           /  14th February 2016

          LOL

          Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  14th February 2016

          @Oliver. Just curious, what was the result of the ‘parliamentary vote’ to which you refer? And when Labour sent the SAS in, in a combat role, please advise the result of the ‘parliamentary vote’ on that occasion

          Reply
  8. Oliver

     /  14th February 2016

    The only thing that stops National from being further to the right is the Labour policies they have adopted when they took over.

    Reply
  9. @ PG – Any more complex analysis tool like this grid is useful to counter the simplistic “Left vs Right” debate. I guess you mean ACT are economically “liberal” and Social Conservative? A multi-axis 3D version would be even more useful?

    I see the “John Key is NaZi” cartoon music video you kicked off with as another example of “resort to extremes” to make a point. I think this is quite a natural expression of human sarcasm, pessimism and perceived contradiction; plus other major ingredients of (broadly speaking) ‘comedy’.

    If it’s from the election campaign – I don’t recall – then it is arguably “legitimate” insomuch as “what the hell is ‘off the table’ at election time!!!?” It was also probably counter-productive?

    Reply
    • Yes, that sort of extreme is more often than not counter-productive, as some found out last election.

      Reply
    • And despite some success in dirt mongering Slater’s efforts have also turned out to be counter productive to his political interests and have also put a lot of stress on his personal interests.

      Reply
    • mrMan

       /  14th February 2016

      It’s a band called “weapons of mass distortion” doing a cover of “john wayne was a nazi” by US hardcore group MDC. The image is by Toothfish.
      One artwork used to illustrate another artwork, of course it’s legitimate, election or not.

      This ones a doozy too…

      Reply
    • mrMan

       /  14th February 2016

      Maybe T-shirts are more your thing…

      Reply
      • I am fairly sure a friend of mine coined this phrase during Flag Consideration –

        DON’T CHANGE THE FLAG, CHANGE THE SYSTEM!!!

        Reply
        • kiwi guy

           /  14th February 2016

          We have a capitalist democratic system, so good that all the Vibrants want to come here.

          PartisanZ and his comrades want to destroy it and turn NZ into a Socialist Third World hell hole.

          Reply
      • kiwi guy

         /  14th February 2016

        You need to get of the weed.

        Reply
      • kiwi guy

         /  14th February 2016

        Labour should lead their next election campaign with those poster images.

        I’m sure it would bring the voters rushing back to the Left, lol.

        Reply
      • This sort of thing may be therapeutic for a few but goes unnoticed or ignored by most. Unlikely to change any votes – or get the disillusioned to vote.

        Reply
        • kiwi guy

           /  14th February 2016

          Actually I think this stuff did get noticed at the last election and helped to crash the Left, remember the footage of Leftist crazies burning an effigy of Key or something, then that Hip Hop “artist”, some Vibrant with lyrics about raping Keys daughter.

          Disgusting.

          Reply
  10. TheContrarian

     /  14th February 2016

    Most political analysts and historians are actually very careful about using the epitaph fascist because it has a very distinct definition and history. Fascism is generally considered to have all but died after the second world war. There is nothing fascist about the National Government and to say otherwise is to completely misunderstand what fascism actually means

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  14th February 2016

      now you’re in the realms of generalisations and mere opinion.It detracts from your position as an ‘expert’ on fascism.

      Reply
      • TheContrarian

         /  14th February 2016

        I’m no expert, I just know what words mean

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  14th February 2016

          ‘Having recently done a lot of study and research into Fascism as of late ‘…should have saved yourself the trouble….and just picked up a dictionary and looked up the definition of…fascist’!

          Reply
          • TheContrarian

             /  14th February 2016

            Paligenic ultranationalism – that’s the definition… which National isn’t

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              ‘the mythical horizons of the fascist mentality do not extend beyond this first stage. It promises to replace gerontocracy, mediocrity and national weakness with youth, heroism and national greatness, to banish anarchy and decadence and bring order and health, to inaugurate an exciting new world in place of the played-out one that existed before, to put government in the hands of outstanding personalities instead of non-entities.’

              sound familiar….on the cusp of something ..’special’…..’get some guts’…ticks all the boxes in fact.

            • TheContrarian

               /  14th February 2016

              Fascists lionized the military and used military theory of combative ready citizens to rise above race, creed or religion. There is no surprise that fascism was borne in the aftermath of WW1. There was a mythic ethos of a nation rising again, to rise against world powers which they believed had subjugated them. The militarization of the public is a defining factor of fascist ideology as well as the ‘rebirth’ of a nation which has been chosen for greatness.After WW2 fascism died as an ideology.
              Robert Paxton is a highly regarded authority on fascism and he said himself:that labeling someone or a movement as fascist is something one should be very careful in doing so.

            • Blazer

               /  14th February 2016

              ‘Fascists lionized the military and used military theory of combative ready citizens to rise ‘…like get some guts’


              ‘ mythic ethos of a nation rising again, ‘….like ‘on the cusp of something special’

              ‘After WW2 fascism died as an ideology.’….so prior to that Hitler,Mussolini,Franco all referred to themselves as ‘fascists’..yes?

            • TheContrarian

               /  14th February 2016

              So yeah – the long and short of it is – National is not fascist at all

    • kiwi guy

       /  14th February 2016

      “There is nothing fascist about the National Government and to say otherwise is to completely misunderstand what fascism actually means”

      Leftist don’t care anyway, its just another epithet they use like screaming “shitlord” or “douchbag” at anyone who doesn’t buy into their crazy ideas.

      Its also status signalling, a Leftist is demonstrating to his comrades how ardent a believer he is and it all turns into a competition to see who is the most devout Leftie by screaming “fashist” loudest and as often as possible.

      Reply
      • Duck everyone!!! KG Shite flying around here …

        SPLATTER !!! %%$##(()*&&&^%##@# !!! THOCK!!! SPLAT!!! “Yuk!”

        Orhh, no, sorry, only Leftie Cultural Marxist Feminists fling shite around.

        Reply
        • kiwi guy

           /  14th February 2016

          Jeeze you really are butt hurt about the well deserved thrashing the Left took at the last election.

          From your behaviour on here it is obvious you and your Marxist comrades have learnt NOTHING from it.

          John Key should send you a thankyou card.

          Reply
          • KG – I got a sufficiently Centre-Left government by voting the way I voted regardless of who I cast my ballot for. I would get this regardless of any Party with the possible exception of ACT, who are highly unlikely to ever become a government or “king makers”.

            What I vote for is the greater or lesser differences in ideology and the tiny, miniscule, often indistinguishable differences in policy.

            You don’t know me. You’ve pegged me all wrong. Your generalisations about individual people are reminiscent of a particular Totalitarian Dictator’s generalisations about all Jews, and others about all “bourgeousie” or “intelligensia” or whoever the object of hatred is …

            By-the-by, I believe you have a relevant point (to some extent) about the Left (and maybe Labour) having fouled its own nest, so to speak. I suspect there is a co-efficient (of some sort) between increasing Political Correctness and loss of average Joe Worker loyalty. But I’d take a lot of convincing political correctness is a global CMF conspiracy? Please present your evidence though …?

            It seems more likely to me – please note those words “more likely” – if there is a global conspiracy at all it is Corporate Internationalism or what might be called Inverted Totalitarianism.

            I’m not quivering in my jandals about it though …

            Reply
  11. Rob

     /  14th February 2016

    “…like screaming “shitlord” or “douchbag”…” Other than dildo etc etc. Pot meet kettle. Hypocrite now as well. Lol

    Reply
    • kiwi guy

       /  14th February 2016

      Again, you Rob and your Marxist comrades scream “fashist!!!” without a clue or a care to what it actually means, its just another epithet you use to status signal to your comrades.

      Reply
      • Rob

         /  14th February 2016

        Got nothing again have you. Lol

        Reply
        • kiwi guy

           /  14th February 2016

          You comrades certainly got nothing out of the last election not even the lesson, lol.

          Reply
          • Gosh KG, if upticks and downticks are anything to go by, you are really rallying the troops on the Far-Right today.

            Leftie Ingenuous Paranoia Syndrome (LIPS) is alive and well.

            This is not unrelated to Pitiful Insistent Social Scarring & Fearful Leftie Apparition Paranoia Syndrome … which isn’t an acronym … PISS FLA … oh, sorry, yes, it is an acronym …

            Reply
  12. jamie

     /  14th February 2016

    These sort of comparisons are nothing new and definitely not the sole preserve of either side of politics.

    Remember this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helengrad

    Reply
    • Rob

       /  14th February 2016

      The Nats under Muldoon also had the dancing cossacks in a bid to derail a Labour retirement plan back in the 70s. Reds under the bed and all that.

      Reply
  13. kiwi guy

     /  14th February 2016

    You know it says much about the Progressive Dildos that they will fake images of John Key with Nazi symbols while themselves proudly display symbols connected to Stalinism and Maoism, regimes that destroyed more lives than the Nazis did by a long way.

    Reply
  14. I was not really comparing Key to Hitler.. but the fact that National went under the banner of ‘Team Key’ & I hear many Govt. MPs saying ‘whatever Key says, we all agree with’ leads me to think, its a dictator-style leadership.

    Then there is the change of flag.. comparisons to things that happened Germany (1930s)

    So, maybe my words were a bit ‘inappropriate to some’ BUT I just ‘sez wot I seez’ nothing more or less :/

    btw; there are many ‘out there’ sayin similar things !

    Reply
  15. Blazer

     /  14th February 2016

    I think Finlayson would be well cast as a Gestapo agent…or perhaps Goebels.he just has that look.Gerry ‘craig’ Brownlee would make a good Bormann or Luftwaffe commander Goering,barging around at airports,Joyce is taylormade for Colonel Klink,Nick Smith would make a good concentration camp guard,Paul East with his glasses and mo,looks like Himmler and Key has a passing resemblance to Heydrich.What a cast.

    Reply
  16. Mike C

     /  14th February 2016

    This post has attracted some commenter’s like “Flys Around a Dunny” … and if only we could seal this post off and entomb them all in here permanently. LOL 🙂

    Reply
  17. Timoti

     /  15th February 2016

    Just woken up to a strange fact. All these f-wit Lefties who write songs about John Key use simple power chords and a monotone lead vocals. There’s something deep here, although I shouldn’t over think it.

    Reply
  18. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th February 2016

    People taking Oliver, Blazer, Rob seriously = tragic.

    Reply
  19. Rob

     /  15th February 2016

    Trolling again Wilkinson. Looking for that elusive response so you can ‘explain’ or hurl a little abuse, or something. Well, at least you got one. Well done!

    Reply
    • Mike C

       /  15th February 2016

      @Rob

      Over the past few days … you have taken to calling anyone who disagrees with your agenda as “a Troll”.

      You need to find a mirror … and take a good long look at what is staring back at you 🙂

      Reply

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