The Left: abusing and losing

People who are active in politics on the left continually seem baffled as to why their politics and their favoured parties aren’t much more popular – as they abuse, shout down and exclude anyone who they think doesn’t measure up to their ideals.

This was highlighted in a thread at The Standard in reaction to another poor poll result for Labour – Roy Morgan: NAT 48.5% (up 1.5%), LAB/GR 41.5% (unch):

B Waghorn:

I’m sorry but 48% of kiwis can get fucked , any country that accepts a pm that is as dirty as key and a party that re promotes a crook like Collins is not worthy of respect .

Labour desperately need a good chunk of that 48% to switch their support to them, but abuse like this is unlikely to help them achieve that. More likely the opposite.

Some on the left recognise their continuing abuse and lose problem – Colonial Viper responded:

The more the Political Left tell 48% of Kiwis that they can go get fucked, and particularly the majority of Kiwis in provincial/regional NZ (where National support tends to be very strong) to go get fucked, the more the Left is lost at sea.

Weka followed up with a play on voting numbers.

Hey people, it’s not 48% of Kiwis. It’s not even 48% of registered voters. Remember that National’s vote last time was 30% of eligible voters.

Today it’s 48% of people that were motivated to take part in the poll and who knew what they wanted to say. Did RM report the people who were undecided or told them to fuck off or were too busy/stressed to take part or couldn’t be bothered?

I don’t think we should give up on NZ just yet, and we need to be very careful to not buy into the narrative that nearly 50% of this country support Key, because it’s simply not true.

What the people who don’t vote (or respond to polls) think is unknown , and irrelevant in a democracy.

What Weka doesn’t do is apply the same reductions to other parties. If she wants to claim National only have 30% support to other parties then Labour would have 17% support and her favoured Greens 8%.

Colonial Viper:

Blaming the opposing team for your own series of losing performances is not going to get you any where.

Labour and the Greens continue to struggle to get anywhere.

And those active on the left of New Zealand politics, I guess in frustration at their lack of traction, lash out at anyone deemed to be not on their side. Which when you take into account the infighting on the left is the majority of potential voters.

Marty Mars shows that the problem is unlikely to go away:

nah cv – some may have given up but the rest of us haven’t and we will keep saying get fucked to the supporters of the disgusting and shameful key and we will do that until they pull the megaphone from our cold hands. That is commitment and integrity – not trying to play all sides, kowtowing in fear or pretend caring. The ONLY answer is commitment to our ideals, ethos and beliefs.

When your ideals and ethos means attacking and abusing anyone deemed to be an enemy (that is, most people).

While people like Marty Mars try to drag Labour to the far left and abuse anyone who they disagree with they will continue to lose their argument with the majority of New Zealanders.

Ngatimozart (typos edited):

You telling 48% of the electorate to Foxtrot Oscar just has alienated them and they will not forget it.

The big problem with the left is it believes that it knows better than the average voter and I saw that arrogance after the last election. Comments like “… the voters are idiots after we showed them all the reasons why …..”. “It’s the voters fault why we didn’t win especially after we showed them the proof from Snowden etc”.

I saw all that and similar as comments on blogs and social media. The message should be that it is your fault, not the voters, that you failed. Blaming the voters for your losing an election because they, the voter, was too dumb to get your message is the height of arrogance.

It is that and the fact that the Labour Party had forgotten its roots and the reason d’etre for its existence that has driven people away from it.

Now it is perceived as being run by special interest groups and has lost touch with reality.I for one would have to agree with that.

It and the left are no longer the political groupings that are for the common working bod. Now they are populated by yuppies and activists with their pet interests that do not necessarily reflect or represent the real world. That is what has driven myself and others away.

We are absolutely sick of the hate politics and negatively that has been emanating from the left for the last five or so years. All it does is belittle you individually and collectively driving away those swing voters in the centre who can make or break an election victory.

That’s my 1c worth.

I’ve seen many ex-Labour voters expressing similar views. More often than not they get criticised and abused and driven away.

Abusing is losing.

Leave a comment

35 Comments

  1. Kevin

     /  21st February 2016

    The Left, as represented by the authors and commentators on The Standard, simply don’t get that getting into power means making compromises and appealing to those voters in the centre. I mean one of the reasons why our political system is the way it is, and the American one for that matter, is to stop extreme parties from getting into power.

    Reply
  2. Timoti

     /  21st February 2016

    ”nah cv – some may have given up but the rest of us haven’t and we will keep saying get fucked to the supporters of the disgusting and shameful key and we will do that until they pull the megaphone from our cold hands.”

    Someone needs to tell this political Neanderthal the battle he is fighting was lost in New Zealand and elsewhere during the nineties.

    Quote: Source unknown.

    “The failure of the Soviet experiment has definitely made the American Left more vicious and hate-filled than they were. The plain failure of what passed for ideas among them has enraged rather than humbled them.”

    Same goes for NZ. Add social media to the mix and the Left feed off each others hate.

    I can’t help but snigger when I read comments from the likes of Marty Mars and Lefty commentators on this blog. No matter how grand the logic and historical context. Ditto the narrative and analogous examples argued to the nth degree. And a the dollops of well chosen cut and pastes. The bottom line is:

    YOU LOST.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  21st February 2016

      Uncle Tomato ,there is still hope for redemption….try Black mores supplements !

      Reply
      • Timoti

         /  21st February 2016

        YOU LOST.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  21st February 2016

          YOU LOST your Whakapapa.

          Reply
          • Timoti

             /  21st February 2016

            “YOU LOST your Whakapapa.”

            A nice titbit for you, Razored.

            “Many readers here will have noticed that what I say about Leftists sometimes sounds reminiscent of what Leftists say about conservatives. There is an excellent reason for that. Leftists are great “projectors” (people who see their own faults in others). So a good first step in finding out what is true of Leftists is to look at what they say about conservatives! They even accuse conservatives of projection (of course)”

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  21st February 2016

              I hadn’t noticed that at all.Have you managed to attach that nightscope to your blunderbuss yet?Grab Capt Mannering and the rest of the crew and march up and down the road.Be prepared Uncle.

            • Timoti

               /  21st February 2016

              YOU LOST.

              Let your hate out. There’s a good boy. Let that vileness drain from your soul. Find your mental equilibrium. Make pain your friend,

              Not going to work is it, Razored? Carry on being a dick,son. Maybe you will run into Grasshopper and find peace one day.

    • Rob

       /  21st February 2016

      “The failure of the Soviet experiment has definitely made the American Left more vicious and hate-filled than they were. The plain failure of what passed for ideas among them has enraged rather than humbled them.” You’re a joke. You read something stupid and immediately believe it. Try having a mind of your own for once.
      “Add social media to the mix and the Left feed off each others hate.” Hahahahahahaha. Again, a joke. All this talk about Labour having lost is pretty stupid, everybody knows, although you seem to have to keep reminding yourself. Kind of like how you have to remind yourself to wipe your arse. Child like. If the situation were reversed you probably wouldn’t be in here, you’d be whining and crying yourself to sleep at night. Your only reason wanting to see the Nats win is so you can gloat because you certainly don’t have a clue about what intelligent people are discussing. “A dictionary and a thesaurus do not a man make”. Unknown.

      Reply
  3. Oliver

     /  21st February 2016

    National voters are money hungry, status obsessed, materialistic, racist, sexist, insecure narcissist. That’s why they keep voting for JK.

    Reply
    • Kevin

       /  21st February 2016

      You forgot to say “ex-Labour voters”.

      Reply
    • Timoti

       /  21st February 2016

      Don’t forget misogynists. I will update you if anything else comes to mind.

      Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  21st February 2016

        You also forgot xenophobic-or is that just NZ First ? Oh well, put it on the list anyway.
        Oh-and homophobic. Any more, anyone ?

        Reply
        • Timoti

           /  21st February 2016

          The more the merrier, KCK. Ollie is close to a climax. One more sin should have him riding the crest of the wave.

          Reply
      • mrMan

         /  21st February 2016

        “racist”

        Reply
      • mrMan

         /  21st February 2016

        “sexist”

        Reply
        • kittycatkin

           /  21st February 2016

          They’re already there. Oliver put those in.

          Reply
          • mrMan

             /  21st February 2016

            if the comments went in order then racist would be under you wanting to add xenophobic, and sexist would be under timoti wanting to add misogynist.
            Because like you say they were already there. For isn’t a mysoginist sexist, and a xenophobe racist. But the formatting of the comments wrecked the message I was trying to convey.

            Reply
      • Kevin

         /  21st February 2016

        Doesn’t that come under sexist?

        Reply
    • Sponge

       /  21st February 2016

      Zionist?

      Reply
      • Timoti

         /  21st February 2016

        “Leftists call their hatred of Israel “Anti-Zionism” but Zionists are only a small minority in Israel”

        Is that you Sponge-Bob? Or did Zionist just pop out of the ether into your brain”

        Reply
  4. kittycatkin

     /  21st February 2016

    I once heard a professional mediator, and she was really impressive. She was quite unobtrusive-no PC catchphrases or anything like that-but she controlled the meeting and the strong feelings brilliantly. I’d say that she earns whatever she charges. She sorted out the different factions and had people actually listening to what the other side had to say-she asked questions, seemingly casually, to find out what people wanted. Why the hell don’t the Labour Party sit down around a table with someone like that ???

    Reply
    • I thought “to clarify was to lose”? Jesus, make up your bloody minds!

      @ KCK – You’re ‘onto it’. But why limit it to just the Labour party? Is this because they’re proles or because National has its “Leadatorship” all sorted out? (new word … Leader-Dictator-ship = coining # 34 on here!)

      Hey, here’s an idea, why doesn’t Parliament sit around a debating chamber with someone like that, a professional mediator? Every day it is in session? At every committee meeting?
      Now that would be an investment in our future!

      Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  21st February 2016

        Because Labour seem to be squabbling among themselves and unable to make up their minds where they’re going.

        This girl even managed to keep the local blowbag under control, without seeming to. I’d love to have her skills in that way !

        Reply
        • In Parliament, right?
          Or would you miss the neolithic herd instinct Party politics, creepy personality cultism and futile pea-brained head butting?

          Reply
  5. jamie

     /  21st February 2016

    “they abuse, shout down and exclude anyone who they think doesn’t measure up to their ideals.”

    That’s true of many on all sides of politics. The comments in this very thread demonstrate it, and the same goes for almost every thread on every blog of every political hue.

    The question is, if it’s true that it hurts the “left”, why does it not hurt the “right”?

    Maybe it does hurt the right too. Or maybe there’s a good reason why it doesn’t.

    Reply
    • Certainly Slater’s abusive behaviour and agendas have had the potential to hurt the right.

      Kiwiblog comments could do to a minor extent, most blogs operate in small bubbles.

      The toxic twitterati is a more prominent example and from what I see it comes mostly from the left.

      Reply
      • jamie

         /  21st February 2016

        “Certainly Slater’s abusive behaviour and agendas have had the potential to hurt the right.

        Kiwiblog comments could do to a minor extent, most blogs operate in small bubbles.”

        Yes that’s how I perceive it too. The amount of people taking notice of blogs is a very small percentage of voters, so the idea that parties’ poll results could be “hurt” by comment threads doesn’t make any sense to me.

        So with that in mind, and acknowledging that it’s equally true of the right-wing bloggers, what makes you think the way the left behaves on blogs has impacted the polls?

        Reply
  6. kittycatkin

     /  21st February 2016

    Originally, sinister meant left….in some contexts it still does, I think.

    Reply
    • kittycatkin

       /  21st February 2016

      Yes-I thought so-it does in heraldry.

      If sinister=left, does that mean that left=sinister ?

      I won’t make the obvious dexter/right connection.

      Why is it that there are people called Dexter but none called Sinister ? One never hears of anyone called Bastard any more, but that was once a name as well as a noun. There was a well-known poet called Thomas Bastard (I think it was Thomas-anyway, his surname was Bastard).

      Reply
      • Just shoot me!

        “I’ll sing you a song with no words and no tune”

        – Small Faces, ‘Lazy Sunday Afternoon’

        Reply
        • kittycatkin

           /  21st February 2016

          I don’t remember that line !

          Lazy Sunday afternoon, got no time for worries,
          Close my eyes and drift away….

          Oh, wouldn’t it be nice to get on with me neighbours ?
          But they make it very clear, they’ve got no time for ravers.

          Lazy etc

          Here we all are, sitting in a rainbow,
          Hello, Mrs Jones-how’s your bird’s lumbago ?

          That’s all I can remember.

          Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  21st February 2016

            It’s Old Bert’s lumbago ! All these years I’ve thought it was someone being facetious about a budgie or canary ! I also remembered the bit about how they bang on me wall, but not what went before or after,

            I remember thinking that the lumbago line was hilarious-I can’t believe that other people haven’t heard this as a mondegreen and thought that the singer was being sarcastic and facetious.

            Reply
          • mrMan

             /  21st February 2016

            Here, let me google that for you..

            http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lazy+sunday+afternoon+lyrics&l=1

            Reply

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