Open Forum – Tuesday

8 March 2016

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is to encourage you to raise topics that interest you. 

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161 Comments

  1. Pantsdownbrown

     /  8th March 2016

    New Zealand leads the OECD in terms of having the smallest gender pay gap. The gender pay gap in Japan is close to five time wider than ours, Australia/US/UK/Sweden about 3 times wider, Germany/France over twice as wide.

    So that’s a good thing right? Something to celebrate? Nup – if you read this stuff article the negative ‘spin’ they give it is something entirely different to reality: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/77639087/new-zealand-ranked-fourth-in-pwcs-women-in-work-index

    Reply
    • kiwi guy

       /  8th March 2016

      The gender pay gap is Feminist propaganda like the 1 in 4 or 5 ( it keeps changing ) rape stat that is thrown around by man haters.

      Reply
      • Pantsdownbrown

         /  8th March 2016

        Regardless – people in the Greens think it’s important and here we have proof that New Zealand is excelling and still the MSM accentuate the negative (I also note the Greens haven’t come out in the press to say what a great thing for the country etc – doesn’t fit their agenda of this current govt being all bad).

        Stuff’s problem with our world leading gender gap statistic: New Zealand should have the number of females in the workforce Sweden has, even though those Swedish women are paid just under 10% less than men when compared to this country.

        Reply
        • kiwi guy

           /  8th March 2016

          They are not paid as much because they quit and go have kids.

          The other trick is to compare different work categories:

          eg nursing to policing – they are not equal, one is obviously WAY more dangerous than the other.

          Also you don’t see these feminists demanding a gender quota for dangerous dirty heavy labouirng jobs.

          No they want to be handed the cushy high pay and high status positions.

          Reply
  2. Mike C

     /  8th March 2016

    So “MrMan” goes … and then gets promptly replaced by “Ralph”.

    Can’t wait to see who replaces “Ralph” 🙂

    Reply
    • Rob

       /  8th March 2016

      So therefore Ralph must be MrMan. Do you ever spend time thinking about anything other than who’s who in this place?

      Reply
      • Mike C

         /  8th March 2016

        @Rob

        Of course I don’t think that “MrMan” and “Ralph” are the same person … because they have totally different names. LOL 🙂

        Reply
        • kittycatkin

           /  8th March 2016

          Get back into the knife drawer, Miss Sharp, you’ll cut someone 🙂

          Reply
    • @ Mike C – Please keep it out of this forum, I beg you? 😦 See how nice and quiet it is, even with KG here? 😉

      How about doing this on Social Media Forum or requesting a separate ‘Seeking engagement with Trolls’ topic? 🙂

      Reply
      • Mike C

         /  8th March 2016

        @Partisan

        I double dare ya to ask George for a separate “Seeking Engagement with Trolls” post. LOL 🙂

        Reply
        • To some it seems that a troll is when someone else does it.

          Reply
          • Mike C

             /  8th March 2016

            @George

            Am I a Troll?

            Reply
            • What’s a troll?

            • Mike C

               /  8th March 2016

              @George

              I have always thought that there were two types of Internet Trolls:-

              “The Good Trolls” who want to create and encourage great debate and “The Bad Trolls” who want to dominate and destroy the debate for everybody else.

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              This from dictionary.com MikeC:
              7.
              Digital Technology. Informal.

              to post inflammatory or inappropriate messages or comments on (the Internet, especially a message board) for the purpose of upsetting other users and provoking a response.
              to upset or provoke (other users) by posting such messages or comments.

            • So what is it if someone who things they are a ‘good troll’ provokes and upsets someone they think is a ‘bad troll’? Especially unsubstantiated? That’s a frequent problem on online forums.

            • Mike C

               /  8th March 2016

              @George

              Is someone still classified as being a Troll … when they enter a Blog … and do everything they possibly can to malign and defame and encourage the other commenter’s in that Blog to dislike and hate a certain person or people … to try and erase the Blog off the face of the earth?

            • Is someone classified as a troll if they act as if someone entering a blog is a troll without adequate evidence and get it wrong?

            • Ian

               /  8th March 2016

              Yes, and it’s still trolling if you get it right. It’s a matter of intent.

            • Mike C

               /  8th March 2016

              @George

              If the Blog Owner knows what they are doing … then they should be able to differentiate between the different types of trolls.

              The third aforementioned type … is the only sort that they should be worried about … in my view 🙂

            • I try to avoid labelling people – troll is a loaded term and often used as pejorative anyway.

              I concern myself with specific behaviours rather than trying to guess people’s motives before they have acted.

              I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove I should have concerns about them.

            • Nelly Smickers

               /  8th March 2016

              Well, ever since I was a child growing up, I was lead to believe there was only ONE type of Troll – and they were all Bad 😦

              They had 3 heads, 3 hats, 3 chins and 3 cats – anything look familiar there to you Michael?

              Full description available from the 1:13sec mark……..

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              @ Nelly Funny, but I believe the duck is a far better example of a troll………

            • Nelly Smickers

               /  8th March 2016

              That is just sooo cute Robby – and a more modern version without doubt 😀

            • kittycatkin

               /  8th March 2016

              To me a troll is someone whose sole aim is to be disruptive, nasty and abusive-what a stupid and pathetic way to spend one’s time. They’re the school bully in later life-or, rather, someone who wanted to be the school bully but was too gutless.

            • Ian

               /  8th March 2016

              “The third aforementioned type … is the only sort that they should be worried about … in my view :)”

              Watch as a troll tries to justify it’s behaviour.

            • Ian

               /  8th March 2016

              “To me a troll is someone whose sole aim is to be disruptive, nasty and abusive-what a stupid and pathetic way to spend one’s time.”

              And watch again as the lesser spotted troll also tries to justify it’s behaviour.

            • Ok Ian, I think that’s far enough in that direction.

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              A troll is a troll, regardless of their motives. As in battle, good and bad are a matter of perspective.

            • kittycatkin

               /  8th March 2016

              A troll is a troll. of course, of course,
              And no one is fond of a troll, of course,
              That is, except the troll themselves-
              and possibly not them.

              Go straight to the hole and ask the troll
              What makes them be such a horribole
              troll-but they’ll say it’s because
              ‘I’m wrong in the head.’

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Come again,girl. Are you on the fire-water?

            • kittycatkin

               /  9th March 2016

              Sing it to the tune of Mr Ed’s theme song 😀

              A horse is a horse, of course, of course etc

            • Ian

               /  9th March 2016

              Hey Kitty, what’s the word for not recognising the behaviour of others in yourself?

              Cos you be trollin’!!!

            • Mike C

               /  9th March 2016

              @Ian

              I would just like to take the time to welcome you to Georges Blog.

              You seem like a very nice person.

            • kittycatkin

               /  9th March 2016

              As I was not saying it about anyone in particular, which should be obvious, I don’t see how this could possibly be construed as troll behaviour. If I am a troll for defining trolls as I see them, so must everyone else here who has said what they think trolls are be a troll-including you.

            • Mike C

               /  9th March 2016

              @Kitty

              You need to stop writing and take a look at what George has written to “Ian” tonight.

              Take a breather … and just read.

              Other people in here have your back … and you are not alone 🙂

            • kittycatkin

               /  9th March 2016

              🙂

    • Timoti

       /  8th March 2016

      My thoughts exactly. I believe [Putting names in here is unfair to anyone whi might want to use the name. PG] is next up to replace Ralphy.

      Reply
      • Mike C

         /  8th March 2016

        @Timoti and George

        Somebody already has used that name in here previously.

        Reply
  3. kiwi guy

     /  8th March 2016

    Mass sexual assault in Sweden gets worse and worse as more Vibrants flood the country.

    But don’t expect feminists to do anything about it because the perpetrators are muslims, they prefer to engage in political lynchings of innocent white guys accused by Feminist rape hoaxers.

    But Swedish men ARE doing something about it:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-07/sexual-assaults-soar-swedish-swimming-pools

    Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  8th March 2016

      zerohedge.com – the least credible pseudo-news source on the interweb-thingy – brought to you by regressives, bigots, xenophobes and misogynists

      From RationalWiki:
      “Zero Hedge is a batshit insane Austrian school finance blog run by a pseudonymous founder who posts articles under the name “Tyler Durden,” after the character from Fight Club. It has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions.

      Tyler claims to be a “believer in a sweeping conspiracy that casts the alumni of Goldman Sachs as a powerful cabal at the helm of U.S. policy, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve colluding to preserve the status quo.” While this is not an entirely unreasonable statement of the problem, his solution actually mirrors the antagonist in Fight Club: Tyler wants, per Austrian school ideas, to lead a catastrophic market crash in order to destroy banking institutions and bring back “real” free market capitalism.”

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  8th March 2016

        Not sure that RationalWiki is any kind of either expert or neutral reviewer of economic opinion. It has a strident political point of view itself.

        Reply
        • Joe Bloggs

           /  8th March 2016

          Ah, well spotted – my point exactly.

          One can parrot or cut and paste the most ridiculously biased commentary from anywhere on the internet and present it as comment worthy, which is exactly what KG has done here.

          Reply
          • kiwi guy

             /  8th March 2016

            Zerohedge is a great source of political news, if you think the article I have posted above is inaccurate please provide evidence.

            You do not engage the issue, the sexual assaults on white girls by muslim immigrants and the subsequent coverup by authorities.

            Rationalwiki is a Marxist propaganda site and is anything but rational.

            Reply
            • kittycatkin

               /  8th March 2016

              I would have thought that if someone was groped in a public pool that they would say something to draw attention to this or swim away. Why are all the other people doing nothing when this supposedly happens ?

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  8th March 2016

              One could equally demand evidence from you to prove that the zerohedge article IS accurate…

              Zerohedge and other scandal sheets like it have collected a small volume of anecdotal evidence that rape by Muslims is increasing in Europe. They all use a common rhetorical trick, an unprovable assertion that much more is un-reported due to the high incidence of Muslim perpetrators which makes it politically incorrect to mention…the hoary old ‘cover-up’ conspiracy.

              What your source fails to make clear is whether the incidents are specifically higher in the Muslim communities than in the mainstream or in other immigrant communities. Revelations about Jimmy Saville’s sexual abuse of hundreds of children with impunity should check any immediate labeling of one race or religion as suspect.

              Your source also reminds me of the similar language used by Jim Crow advocates and lynching apologists in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

              Moreover, your source, like many other vehicles for xenophobia, has been peddling this myth of an epidemic of rapes by Muslims for decades. FFS, Anders Brevik used this worn-out meme back in 2011 to justify his killing spree in Oslo and Utoya, in the name of protecting Norway from an imagined Muslim takeover.

              Face it, KG, men who rape are sexual predators. Men like that aren’t motivated by matters of politics, race, or religion.Rape and sexual assault are, unfortunately, universal problems that cross all national, geographic, ethnic and religious boundaries. Your crying wolf at Muslims doesn’t diminish the problem in the slightest. It just muddies the waters.

              If you genuinely care about the crime (as opposed to caring about slamming a minority you dislike) then address the crime and punish the criminal as an individual.

            • @ Joe Bloggs – Respect.

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  8th March 2016

              @Parti – thank you – the feeling’s mutual

              I pick up a lot of pieces left after domestic violence and speak from experience: my own and the stories of perpetrators and survivors of abuse.

            • Mefrostate

               /  8th March 2016

              Excellent write-up Joe, and I’d be eager to hear kiwi guy’s response to it (although I bet it’ll mostly be slurs).

              One further point I’d make is that even if the incidence of rape and sexual assault is higher among Muslims than the general population, that doesn’t in the slightest constitute helpful information until we also analyse the contributing factors and how to address them. Is the cause poverty? Religion? Sexual repression?

              The issue is far more complex than kiwi guy and his ‘sources’ admit, and without discussion of ways to deal with the problem (other than “ban all Muslims”), then it’s just noise.

            • All very good points Mefrostate. I’m quoting some text from a spook mailing list I belong to. It’s about Assange and Sweden in particular but highlights a few interesting points about Swedens establishment. Any thoughts you have would be great..

              “There is actually another aspect to this that I didn’t know about until a couple of days ago, when I stumbled across this Swedish documentary (with English subtitles) on YouTube

              It explains in detail and with interviews the extent to which the Swedish establishment has become saturated with a radical feminist agenda according to which all men are evil violent rapists and all women are our innocent victims. The film is from 2005 and so is a little bit out of date (at that time the dominant idea among the Swedish radical feminists was that in order to oppress women more efficiently men were organized into powerful satanist human sacrifice cults – sound familiar?) but it made a big splash in Sweden when it came out and nobody has denied the basic truth of what it says. So if I was Julian Assange I would be losing sleep not about being whisked away to some CIA dungeon but about getting serious jail time in Sweden at the hands of what is now an extremely biased and anti-men justice system, in which women no longer have to prove rape charges: men have to disprove them. Also, women can decide they were raped long after the event, as has happened in the Assange case, where one woman continued to sleep with him in her flat for several days after the alleged rape took place without saying anything about it to him or anyone else. Since a common radical feminist meme is that all sex between men and women is rape, and indeed that ‘the Patriarchy’ is a ‘rape culture’, this legal development is logical enough in a way, but I wouldn’t fancy Assange’s chances at all in a Swedish court. Maybe this is all well known to those who have been following the Assange case more closely but it was news to me.”

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  8th March 2016

              Complex aye? You are on the money pointing to systemic issues – social, cultural, and economic marginalisation, systemic inequalities in employment and income that arise from the concentration of migrants in unskilled/semi-skilled work, absence of social mobility… lots of dimensions. Sadly many migrants get swept up in those dimensions.

              You only have to look at the long brown corridor running through Auckland to see what poorly managed migration programmes do to people.

            • Mefrostate

               /  8th March 2016

              @ Ben Rachinger.

              I don’t have time to watch the documentary, but I’ve reviewed some articles about the themes it covers.

              The ROKS stuff seems a bit conspiracy to me, and there appears to have been strong public backlash against some of the things said in the doco.

              Seems to me that Feminist Initiative’s popularity plummeted when they were getting too radical, and grew (max at 3%) when they stuck to more mainstream feminism.

              Regarding rape laws and Assange, there’s some misinformation in there. Particularly “an extremely biased and anti-men justice system, in which women no longer have to prove rape charges: men have to disprove them”.

              This quote is a misinterpretation of proposed changes to the burden of proof for consent. As far as I’m aware these have not been successful anywhere (because they quite obviously undermine the presumption of innocence).

            • Thanks for your considered reply Mefrostate. Appreciated.

            • kittycatkin

               /  8th March 2016

              I remember reading about how the supposed rape victim in the Assange case described it as something like bad sex or a really bad screw-which made me think that it wasn’t rape. It seems inherently unlikely that someone would describe as awful as a rape as bad sex.

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  8th March 2016

              And:

              http://news.nationalpost.com/news/i-was-in-cologne-on-new-years-theres-a-reason-to-be-afraid-and-its-because-of-other-peoples-fear

              “New Year’s Eve in Cologne is a sort of jolly anarchy. People let off fireworks as and when the spirit moves. If they bounce off a building on the way up or errantly whiz past the ear of an unsuspecting reveller, “et es wie et es,” the Cologne equivalent of “c’est la vie.”

              I was at the main station, alone after midnight, as I often am, happy to have had a lovely night watching fireworks at the Rhine. Imagine my surprise, six days later, to discover I had been within 100 metres of a roving gang of rapists without noticing that anything was amiss.

              “All these women were rappèd,” said my student. “Raped,” I corrected without thinking. It’s a strange subject to discuss with someone you teach English to, and it’s also patently untrue. As of Friday evening, two women have reported being raped, and around 200 made complaints of harassment or theft. It’s also unsettling to see genuine terror from educated adults who should know better, and painful to have people I have found to be welcoming and supportive of me as an immigrant be so frightened of brown ones.”

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  8th March 2016

              And:

              http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/questioning-the-rape-narrative-in-cologne-germany/

              “The reports coming out of Cologne steeped in the sort of moral panic and hysteria seen numerous times throughout history were reminiscent in some ways of the magnitude of crisis that unfolded in Paris two months ago. CNN reported that there were 379 criminal acts on New Years Eve, 150 or so being investigated for sexual assault. The Independent claims there were 90 criminal reports with one alleged rape. CBC reported that 121 women were robbed, threatened or sexually molested by gangs of men. The Wall Street journal claimed that 121 reports were recieved by German authorities with three quarters being related to sexual assault. The Rebel called it a “Civil War” as if describing an army of Muslims storming the train station under Muhammad E Lee screaming Allahu Akbar.

              Despite the mass panic and hysteria only two rapes have been reported thus far. Right about now I’ll have to preemptively dodge a few straw-men being thrown my way, as some will ask “Why does it matter? – two is two too many.” That part is correct, but for the media who know that the degree of hysteria they create is related to the revenue and political capital to be gained, two is no where near enough. If it doesn’t matter that two rapes were reported as 100; than it was never about the rape to begin with. That is why these stories are presented in the manner they are – that leaves a lasting impression that a predatory culture that we were warned would do something like this has now conveniently materialized and is now stalking the streets of Germany in great hordes like it was the dawn of the zombie apocalypse.”

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  8th March 2016

              And:

              http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

              The Swedish police record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries.

              Sweden also has a comparatively wide definition of rape. This means that more sexual crimes are registered as rape than in most other countries.

              Nevertheless, the vast majority of rapes and sexual assaults in Sweden are committed by Swedish men in the ‘comfort’ of their own homes. And the vast majority of rapes in Germany are committed by Germans behind closed doors in the family home, Ditto Norway, Ditto New Zealand, Australia, and damned near every other country in the world.

              Don’t ever be swayed by ‘Stranger Danger’ Alan… it’s the people you know that cause the most damage.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  8th March 2016

              I think you are attacking a straw man. The news reports only ever reported two rapes in Cologne but many sexual and physical assaults.

              As for stranger danger, depends where you are. There are parts of Auckland and times of day when it isn’t the people you know that cause the most damage. Likewise elsewhere.

            • Rob

               /  8th March 2016

              I’ve been pointing this out in here to KG and others for awhile now. Pointless in my opinion. They can’t see beyond the fearmongering being perpetrated by these sites. Ever notice the email from a friend ones? The names change but the song remains the same. Exact same scenarios but a different town or country. Governments, police, media are all hiding the facts etc etc etc. Pointless responding to KG about this, his fear obviously overwhelms his common sense (or lack of). The sites he and others use for their facts are nothing but fearmongering hate sites and anyone who believes anything from them is not worth engaging with.

    • Oliver

       /  8th March 2016

      I guess the vibrants are trying to out breed their hosts by spreading their seed. Quite an effective way of colonization.

      Reply
      • Klik Bate

         /  8th March 2016

        YEP – you’re right on the mark there Oliver!

        Muslim rape gangs are currently roaming Europe seeking white women to rape…..

        Reply
        • Oliver

           /  8th March 2016

          It’s sad because we played a part in this. This is why we shouldn’t associate ourselves with the US criminals.

          Reply
        • Take note folks, it only takes a second –

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_sex_gang

          The men in this ‘Klik Bait’ [expletives deleted] gang were arrested and charged in 2010 – 6 years ago – and were not recent immigrants, they were British residents of Pakistani descent, married with young families, certainly not part of the recent immigration ‘crisis’.

          I’m not saying there isn’t a problem. The Wiki page links to numerous other sex gangs prosecuted in the U.K, but to load it into KG’s arsenal is just plain disingenuous and irresponsible IMO.

          Like it or not, Britain, like New Zealand, also has a problem of young women, often ‘girls’, out on the street at night, drinking (especially) and taking drugs, along with young men OF COURSE. The U.K and we (and many others) have a serious and complex social problem, involving parenting, childhood and adolescence, sexualisation, commodification, media, alcohol, drugs and goodness only knows what else … Some older teenage friends of mine openly describe themselves as ‘nihilists’.

          Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  8th March 2016

            I wonder if they know what nihilism means. It’s certainly been around as a concept long enough-Oscar Wilde wrote a (not very good) play about Nihilists.

            Reply
    • Oliver

       /  8th March 2016

      Wow somebody has finally been able to shut up Kiwi Guy.

      Reply
  4. kiwi guy

     /  8th March 2016

    ^ “The Eriksdalsbadet national swimming arena in Stockholm (left) has become infamous for the many incidents of migrants sexually assaulting women and children at the facility. At the Oasen pool in Kungälv (right), two girls were recently sexually assaulted by “unaccompanied refugee children.” In response, members of the “Nordic Resistance Movement” showed up, wearing shirts bearing the label “Security Host” (Trygghetsvärd), and “patrolled” the facility.”

    Reply
    • Yes KG, there’s no doubt there are “teething troubles” with assimilating refugees into Western European societies. This isn’t entirely new – remember when Indians and West Indians started flooding into Britain – although the pressure of sheer numbers right now will certainly exacerbate problems, as indeed will cultural and religious differences.

      There’s also little doubt the situation could have been handled better and certainly differently, given the benefit of hindsight. There would still be hundreds of thousands of refugees at the wire in Macedonia, crossing the Aegean and Mediterranean in boats and millions at camps in Lebanon.

      What would you like to see happen?

      Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  8th March 2016

        Why did you ask that ???!!! ! You will be sorry when he tells you-and tells you-and tells you-and tells you-and tells you….

        Reply
  5. Timoti

     /  8th March 2016

    Why is Whaleoil such a successful blog?

    This quiz will give you a hint. It has nothing to do with content, but more to do with perceptual manipulation. I wonder if Cam used such techniques knowingly, or whether he lucked out by chance?

    http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=NTQzNzgx

    My score 10/15

    Reply
  6. I see the NZ WAR on Drugs reached a new ‘high’ with the RNZAF (Airforce) helicopters & officers being deployed to ‘take down this savage enemy of the state’ :9000 plants around the Top of the South :/ 😦

    Sounds impressive.. BUT probably just scratching the surface.. as usual, justifying their existence.

    Reply
    • kiwi guy

       /  8th March 2016

      Yep, I’m sure the Leftist on here aren’t too fearful about their dealer and habit being choked off any time soon.

      Reply
      • @KG

        what a narrow view you have… 😦

        I & others, think it was time that cannabis was ‘legally regulated’ similar to alcohol & taken from the hands of Gangs & black-markets. BUT this Govt. thought it better to allow synthetics instead (now withdrawn & under review) :/

        $100million+ wasted on looking to be ‘tough on DRUGS, B-S’
        its 2016 not 1975..

        Reply
  7. Nelly Smickers

     /  8th March 2016

    I was so happy to read in the Herald this morning, that the Prime Minister himself, has come out in full agreement with me and Alan W, for the stance we took yesterday regarding the treatment that poor French girl received, at the hands of those officious Immigration twots in Queenstown.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/south-island/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503933&objectid=11601588

    JK’s comments certainly makes that ‘Ralph’ look like a right dork 😀

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  8th March 2016

      Couldn’t agree more, I think that the official became bogged down in the “miniature” and wasn’t looking at the big picture!

      Reply
  8. Zedd

     /  8th March 2016

    Sad news.. the classic ‘Kestrel’ ferry, sank in Akld overnight. 😦
    I have many memories of riding the ‘old tub’ to & from Devonport, in my youth. 🙂

    Reply
    • Yeah, real sad Zedd. I am just now listening to RNZ about it right now. Launched in 1905.
      Conveyor of the largest number of passengers of any passenger vehicle of any kind whatever in NZ’s history bar none! Wow!

      Little known facts, although not directly about the ‘Kestrel’, just the old ferries.

      Having been declared unfit for military service due to health reasons, “Norman Kirk shifted to Devonport for six months in 1943 to work on the ‘Toroa’ [initially as a boiler stoker I believe?], securing his river engineer’s certificate in February 1944. He also joined the Devonport Ferry Company Employees’ Union, where he was briefly vice president. It was to be his only significant position within a union.

      At the Holy Trinity Church, Devonport, on 17 July 1943, Kirk married Lucy Ruth Miller. They had met on a blind date in Paeroa and she was his first girlfriend. Kirk told journalists in later years that he possessed £7. 10s. when he married.” – Te Ara

      My Mum, one year younger than ‘Big Norm’, grew up in Devonport and lived at home there at this time. They may have rubbed shoulders at the Chinese Greengrocer’s shop? She rode the ferry each day with her childhood best friend to their jobs as salegirls at Smith & Caughey’s in Queen Street. The town was full of ‘Yanks’. They went on an arranged ‘date’ with two Yanks who turned out to be recuperating from sickness and wounds received at Guadalcanal. One guy could only walk 200 feet without taking a rest. People didn’t talk about stuff in those days but my Mum asked him, “What’s it like?” and he told her about being in battle. My Mum had this kind of effect on people. She could break down the walls of Jericho, that woman. She told me this story one day when I was 9 or 10 y.o (or something), home from school with Chickenpox and “Mairzy Dotes” came on the radio …

      “A Kiddley Divey Tu wouldn’t you?”

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  8th March 2016

        I lived in Devonport for 15 years and often took the Kestral into town. Very sad if it’s gone for ever but maybe it can be recovered and restored.

        Reply
        • Apparently not Alan, according to the guy on the radio. Salvage is very unlikely. I hope so, of course. The Kestrel was apparently a World Heritage Maritime icon.

          http://www.thekestrel.org.nz/

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11601802

          Reply
          • Zedd

             /  8th March 2016

            @PZ

            your name reminds me of the Dire Straits Song..
            “I’m a soldier of Freedom in the Army of man, we are the chosen, we’re the PartisanZ..’ 😀

            Reply
          • kittycatkin

             /  8th March 2016

            Even if it can’t be restored and used, maybe it could be fished up and put in a museum for such things.

            Reply
            • kittycatkin

               /  8th March 2016

              From one angle on the news, it looked damaged but more or less in one piece, but from another it seemed to be in pieces. Let’s hope that the pieces were one part of it.

            • kittycatkin

               /  8th March 2016

              Only one part, I mean. Poor old boat !

            • Mike C

               /  8th March 2016

              @Kitty

              As Bob the Builder used to say:-

              “Can we fix it … no its Fucked”

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              For someone who complains about bad language, you have a bit of a ‘potty mouth’ yourself Mikey.

          • Pickled Possum

             /  8th March 2016

            @Parti
            WHAAT!!!! … it’s drowned … oh sad day.
            I remember Mother the absolute gem in my brown eyes.
            While visiting Auckland she took us for a treat, the ferry to
            ‘The Devonport’ to have a picnic in the park
            and walk round the shops it was only 1 of 4 times.
            I have ever went to Devonport and I remember it now like it was yesterday.
            Davey Jones you beep beep beep!

            Reply
      • kittycatkin

         /  8th March 2016

        If people ‘didn’t talk about stuff in those days’, there can’t have been much conversation-how did anyone find anything out ? I am always dubious about claims that are so sweepingly generalising.

        Reply
        • @ KCK – Common and widely reported incidence of men not talking about their personal war experiences back then KCK, especially not with more-or-less complete strangers. Many wouldn’t talk about their wars at all, full stop. There are exceptions, of course.

          And of course, I only had a certain amount of space …

          I met a man who was in NZ’s Japanese occupation force after WW2, which means he would have been close to Nagasaki I think? I asked him if he would talk to me about it because I often do and enjoy talking to veterans. He shut-down in front of my eyes. “No way.” Fair enough, of course …. I didn’t push the point or anything …

          Reply
          • My father was in J-Force. He had a few Japanese notes and a few photos, including one I remember of nuclear devastation, but he didn’t take much about it.

            When he got older he talked a little about his service in Italy. He followed the final fighting, but told me one night he was on sentry duty at a farmhouse and every bit of gunfire in the distance scared the shit out of him. One of my uncles was not far ahead of him and was killed.

            My father ended up in Trieste in the stand off with the Yugoslavs. And then on to Japan.

            Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  8th March 2016

        My mother had a similar war story, PZ, with a very young American on R&R from the bloody Pacific war. He could only say, “I just wanna go home”. A lot went back to Iwo Jima and died there.

        And her brothers who flew for the RAF, one right through the war and one shot down over Germany who survived a POW camp with a broken back. Not a lot of talk from them.

        Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  8th March 2016

      Sad indeed. The last of Dromgoole’s Navy. She was launched in December 1905, so a damned good innings! I hope that they can do something with her, but costs may be prohibitive.

      Meantime the last of the Albatross class, the Toroa, is still high and dry parked alongside the Lincoln Road interchange with no likelihood of re-entering the water any time soon…

      Reply
      • @ JB – I didn’t know that was the Toroa!? Wow! That’s Norm Kirk’s ferry. It might be restored as both a maritime icon and a tribute to the great PM?

        Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  8th March 2016

          If they don’t hurry up the motorway will overtake the project, unless they are going to build the motorway around it.

          Reply
          • Pickled Possum

             /  8th March 2016

            @Patzcuaro its been there nearly 30 years my Mother said “so they can just build the motorway around it. It was there first!”

            Reply
  9. Mike C

     /  8th March 2016

    @George

    Oh look … “an Ian” has turned up right on cue.

    What a surprise.

    Reply
    • Oh look, right on cue you seem to be jumping to conclusions, again. Actually Ian turned up with a brief comment earlier but I parked that because I didn’t have time to deal with any unjustified reaction.

      Piling into newcomers is something I want to discourage Strongly. Most new people turn out to be fine if they aren’t put off by an unwelcoming committee.

      Reply
      • Mike C

         /  8th March 2016

        @George

        Well you erased Timoti’s comment this morning … where he said that an “Ian” would turn up in your blog after “Mr Man” and “Ralph” were gone.

        So I guess that my above comment is lost on most of the commenter’s in here as a result of your deletion 🙂

        Reply
        • Timoti

           /  8th March 2016

          Fear not Mikey…you will get another chance.

          Reply
        • Robby

           /  8th March 2016

          A duck walked up to the lemonade stand, and she said to the man running the stand…………:)

          Reply
          • Timoti

             /  8th March 2016

            Give me your facking organic lemons, arse-wipe, or I will tap you so many times your momma will be able to use you as a sieve.

            Reply
            • Rob

               /  8th March 2016

              The everyone is someone else nut brigade back in action. Mike and Timoti, saving us all from the alts who are trying to destroy yournz. Pity they’ve never been right. You two need to get a life, seriously.

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Go back to sleep Rob. Don’t forget to turn the TV off. Some appliance can use up to $30 on standby during a whole year.

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              Oh FFS! The three of you are all as bad as each other!

            • Rob

               /  8th March 2016

              And if I don’t? Guess you’re going to give me the ‘double tap’ for wasting energy to. You should leave yours on, perhaps some excess will reach your head and drag you out of the knuckle dragging pre evolutionary stage you’re stuck in. So who am I this week mr private investigator. Go on, give us a clue then mike can get on the job as well. Cretin.

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Easy on, Rob. I’m sorry you missed the Bachelor, but it wasn’t my fault. Creep.

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              As reluctant as I am to agree with you about anything Rob, all the suspicion and innuendo needs to stop. Lets give people the benefit of the doubt, until they prove otherwise.

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Make your mind up. Which comment are you going with Lol.

            • Rob

               /  8th March 2016

              He won’t stop Robby, he’s obviously obsessed that we’re ganging up on him. He’s paranoid as well as stupid. Potato head. Obviously mashed.

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              Whichever one the voices in my head tell me to… LOL

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              Lets leave the personal insults out please Rob

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Oh,dear. poor old Rob. Writing the narrative again with hackneyed phrases…Potatoehead, wow what a killer lol
              Freak.

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Tell me about these voice, Robby. Do they happen inside or outside of your head?

            • Robby

               /  8th March 2016

              I’m not really sure Timmy, but I normally just ignore them, simply because they are boring and repetitive….

            • Rob

               /  8th March 2016

              Watch it Robby or you’ll be next for the ‘double tap’.

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Geez, I see what you mean. Thank god my name is Timoti. There’s no telling what those voices may force you to
              do to someone called Timmy.
              Tell me, how long have you been watching South Park .?
              Do you cosidrer it a metaphor for your life?

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Rob, you have tapping on the brain. Relax and go and help Ollie. Robby is in therapy with me. You are surplus to requirements.

            • Robby, I don’t believe it can be done. I tried today. Trolled myself doing it too!!! PG Doxed me!
              Problem is, to tackle the Trolls one just becomes a sorta Troll oneself … I took Possum’s advice … DO NOT ENGAGE!!! Come back to the music … about to post a song perfect for this very subject … A rare gem …

            • Timoti

               /  8th March 2016

              Patisan Zzzzzzzzz offers good advice, Robby. Birds of a feather bullshit together.

  10. @ Possum – Are you sure you’re not a stand-up comedian? “It was there first!” is very funny in the “context” of today’s discussions.

    For me though it’s been about “Tenderness”, ‘Forgiveness’ and the possibilities … so this is the theme of my playlist tonight, starting with a man who, like Randy Newman, George Benson and others, has had an enormous effect on the modern music industry both out-front and behind-the-scenes. A big fave of mine, Jackson Browne. ‘Tender (is the Night)’ … LIVE at Rockpalast 1986 – ‘JOY!

    Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  8th March 2016

      “And in the hard light of an angry sun
      No one remembers what was said or done
      Tender are the words they choose
      You win, I win, we lose”

      Nice Parti very light and some one wrote under his song
      “This man could sing the phonebook and I would love it!”
      My brain hurts at the mo’ so take it away boyz. 🙂

      Reply
    • This isn’t really ideal, and nothing against the great, great Otis Redding’s version, but I’ve always had a soft spot for Three Dog Night – ‘Try a Little Tenderness’ –

      Reply
  11. Robby

     /  8th March 2016

    With pleasure PP 🙂

    Reply
    • Most excellent Jamiroquai Robby. You know, if you want to create suspense, tension and even horror, something like that, just a big puddle of blood on the floor, is better than all the ‘gore’ Hollywood can churn out, generally speaking … I’d only seen that once before but I distinctly remember the shiver up the spine towards the end first time too ….

      Thinking about my Mum & Devonport Ferries and stuff today reminded me of this old song. People say you have to have experienced things yourself, but I reckon that’s one of the amazing things music gives us, sharing experiences with ‘feeling’ – Here’s O C Smith, Hickory Hollers Tramp –

      Reply
      • Robby

         /  8th March 2016

        Yup, music is great like that. Despite any differences people have, music is a universal language. What I find REALLY interesting is how we seem to get thru several different genres here, you’ll post something, and it will remind me of something, and vice versa…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1p9lMAzVk

        Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  8th March 2016

      @ Robby Jamiroquai really cool Jazzy feel Nice a new song and new artist to listen to.

      @Parti Nice Parti very easy listening for rock? the next song after that one was soulful. Sounds a little like a young ‘she came in thru my bathroom window’ singing.
      “Ooh, she may be weary Young girls they do get weary Wearing that same old funky dress But, ooh, while she gets weary weary Won’t you try some tenderness”

      Reply
      • Now I’m with my little transistor out of which I first heard all these songs, the radio my Dad got us one each coz he had ‘connections’ in the electrical trade … Hickory Holler leads inevitably to this … Oh the memories!!! He she is with ‘Ode to Billie Joe’ – one of the ‘mystery songs’ of a generation, to be pawed over like American Pie and JFK’s assassination … well, I might be exaggerating a little … talk about atmosphere though eh?

        Reply
        • Robby

           /  8th March 2016

          Sad, yet beautiful. Minimal guitar, carried by a great voice. A bit like this one…

          My 12 year old son (who can still sing like a girl 😉 ) and I figured this one out while Mrs Robby was out on a Friday night with the girls. We started our ‘final audition’ just as she walked in the door, and she was lost for words…..

          Reply
        • Zedd

           /  9th March 2016

          Good call.. 🙂

          Reply
  12. I never watch programs like X-Factor and The Voice beyond the first auditions because I hate the elimination phases, especially ‘wars’ and ‘seat fights’ and crap. However, The Voice Season 2 Australia would have been worth watching 10 times over and 10 again just for this 3:40 of Gurrumul & Delta –

    I dedicate this to the healing … and not the pretendy healing neither … not the ‘cover up’ healing … the deep re-integrative healing … the soul work …

    (Tehehe, I won’t be watching any more Voice or nuthin coza throwing an axehead at that darned possum on my deck and wrecking my dish … )

    Watch your latest ones now Robby …

    Reply
  13. I knew it was here somewhere! Could there be a better person to sing this song than Sade? There’s several versions of this LIVE. This is one of the more raw ones …
    ‘Why Can’t We Live Together’?

    PS I’m not in love!

    Reply
    • Wow, Robby, you sure can find those acoustic versions! Katy Perry, how cool, and how cool your musical family sounds! Here’s a classic along the lines of “Gettin’ it Together”, with classic visuals too … Thunderclap Newman … This one’s for you Pantsdownbrown … a song to make up for a song made up today?

      Reply
      • Robby

         /  8th March 2016

        Love Sade, especially ‘Smooth Operator’. No musical family in my whare, just a dad with a broken dream, and one son who is a natural. He has learned this one from beginning to end in under a week….

        Reply
        • There’s that punkish metal man in you again Robby. Great. Hey, dreams might come true later or in ways unexpected? Also, I meant to say before, a heartfelt thanks for Green Day’s ‘Working Class Hero’ – a definite highlight of the night. Powerful stuff. An awful lot a’ truth in that song … Here’s one for the Inter-generationalists …
          Original music and lyrics … “Give a little bit of your time to me ….. I don’t need your money”

          Reply
          • Robby

             /  8th March 2016

            Nice PZ, don’t need your money, just your time… Reminds me of my last little stint (400 hours!!!) of community service. Spent a lot of time working with REAL volunteers, most of whom were 60+. And the stories they told were amazing, and fascinating. The many stories they shared with me over a cup of tea were priceless…..

            Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  8th March 2016

      @ Parti Yes Sade she is the Smoothest Operator!!!
      “Everybody wants to live together
      Why can’t we be together”

      *something in the air
      Call out the instigator
      Because there’s something in the air
      We’ve got to get together sooner or later
      Because the revolution’s here
      And you know it’s right
      And you know that it’s right.

      @ Robby that was great … raw
      “and your gonna hear me ROAR”

      @ Rob love Eddie still laughing what a hoot he is.
      Going to get my happy back with a few of his vids 🙂

      Reply
  14. Rob

     /  8th March 2016

    Eddie Izzard – Do you have a flag? A quicky for the flag debate

    Reply
  15. Robby

     /  8th March 2016

    A mellow travelling and surfing melody, for all the ex & current surfers & dope smokers amongst us…..

    Reply
    • Robby, the Dub, EXCELL COND. as we used to say about old SAABs and other cars!!!

      I’m gonna be naughty now. Just wanna prove I’m as much of a bastard as anyone else. Dose a’ late night comedy, one short, one longer … both Sarah Silverman, who I’ve only just discovered tonight … Wicked Comedian!
      First, her take on music for old people … Very Wicked!!!

      And F*@#ing Matt Damon … all nicely beeeeped and censored …

      This shouldn’t get me edited or banned … Well, no, not if KG can get away with the stuff he deposits here … You guys woulda really enjoyed my variation on ‘Camptown Races’ lyrics today I reckon. I’ll have to start an blogspot petition for its reinstatement …? PBD might support me? ENJOY !!!!

      Reply
      • I don’t wanna give anybody ideas or anything, that’s why I’m posting this pretty late. You might enjoy a splutter with your cuppa tea at breakfast?

        Reply
      • Robby

         /  8th March 2016

        Really PZ? You disappoint me by linking to this BS. Pete is a pretty tolerant host, and IMHO you don’t deserve a ban, or even a warning from him. What you get from me though, is a great big WTF???

        Reply
        • @ Robby, I think you’re correct … on the button I mean. I’m a bit cabin fever-ish again I suspect. I’m maybe missing that somewhat ‘perverse’ side of TV comedy/celebrity or something – because I’m going cold turkey at present after a lifetime of it – or I should have just stopped earlier … Can’t be good and pleasing all of the time … I won’t be on here tomorrow due to other committments. Until tomorrow night, goodnight and thanks … I appreciate your straight feedback …

          Reply
          • Robby

             /  8th March 2016

            I’m always correct, just ask me… LOL

            Reply
          • Pickled Possum

             /  9th March 2016

            Night Parti as always I have enjoyed the words you write and your heartfelt korero. TV addiction after ‘a life time’ is as bad as losing a limb for some.
            And a new dish maybe in order. See you tomorrow night as I need to go to rehab for the day

            Night

            Reply
            • Robby

               /  9th March 2016

              You always seem to spring up when I’m about to go to sleep Possum…. This lady always reminds me of our lady Gin…

            • Pickled Possum

               /  9th March 2016

              yes Robby she does she VG Great Music tonight … Night

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