Open Forum – Thursday

17 March 2016

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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71 Comments

  1. Missy

     /  17th March 2016

    I put the below on Wednesday’s Open Forum, but am reposting it here.

    I saw a story about the Christchurch City Council illegally placing a recording device in someone’s backyard without their knowledge, now I would have thought this would have got all the anti-GCSB people quite up in arms, but instead there appears (from my google searching) to be complete silence from the usual suspects.

    Why aren’t those that claim to be in favour of NZers privacy, and saying that people should be protected from mass surveillance not more bothered by a council placing a recording device on someone’s property? This shows the hypocrisy of those that are predominantly on the left in this country. It seems it is okay for a council to spy on its ratepayers but they object to the Government collecting information on those that are a threat to our national security.

    If Grant Robertson, Labour and the Greens want to show any form of consistency they would be vocally condemning this action – and why aren’t the Greens calling for an inquiry?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  17th March 2016

      Were they recording a dog barking? I saw something on One News but wasn’t really watching and thought it was just some neighbour who’d done the recording.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  17th March 2016

        From what I saw it was to record the dog barking, however the microphone picks up everything. The issue is that it had apparently been there for a while, and the owners knew nothing about it, so essentially they had on their property a device recording everything being said in their garden – a place where most people would have an assumption of privacy. I also understand no warrant was obtained for it. Apparently the council said the owners should have been asked, and also there response to the fact that it picks up conversations was saying their staff ignore any noises that aren’t the barking dog – an argument equal to the GCSB saying they ignore all emails that aren’t related to national security.

        It is still surveillance, and the fact that there has hardly been a peep from the likes of Labour and the Greens (who were so vocal against the GCSB) shows incredible hypocrisy in my view – it seems privacy is only an issue to them when it suits their political agenda, not all the time.

        Reply
    • Oliver

       /  17th March 2016

      I was upset about it but then I learned that it’s procedure to ask permission to use the device. However in this case the person who placed the devices failed to follow procedure. So it’s a case of a worker not doing his job properly rather than deliberate spying. The worker is under investigation for disciplinary issues. So it seems legit.

      Reply
  2. A follow up to something discussed here yesterday:

    Police have dropped any further investigations into Formula One champ Lewis Hamilton’s apparent use of a cell phone while speeding down an Auckland motorway on a motorcycle.

    Police said yesterday there was not enough evidence to show the 31-year-old had actually been holding the phone at the time.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11606798

    Another media beat up over.

    Reply
    • Klik Bate

       /  17th March 2016

      Sounds to me like Lewis will be pleased to be out of the joint!

      You can bet Melbourne will know how to look after him.

      Don’t expect to see ‘Il Phenomeno’, or his entourage, back here any time soon 😦

      Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  17th March 2016

      How do they know it was Lewis Hamilton, was he riding without a helmet?

      Reply
    • Oliver

       /  17th March 2016

      The MSM aren’t concerned with getting the facts right they just want a juicy story. It probably would have got international attention so kudos to them.

      Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  17th March 2016

      @PG. Have you got any idea how fast these guys reactions are? They are simply not human. I would trust Lewis with my grandmother if he had BOTH hands wrapped around a cellphone

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  17th March 2016

        I wouldn’t-how can anyone control a motorbike with one or no hands ? He was on a motorway, not a racing track.

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  17th March 2016

          ‘ wouldn’t-how can anyone control a motorbike with one or no hands ‘

          His knees and core kitty. You are safer with Lewis’s knees than an ordinary bloke on a bike who has a white knuckle grip with both hands on the handlebars

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  17th March 2016

            You can’t control the brakes and handlebars with your knees ! There’s no point in having a white knuckle grip, that’s going to the other extreme. Try turning on an indicator or changing gear-or speed-with your knee, it wouldn’t be possible. If someone’s riding hands-free, wouldn’t the bike be uncontrollable ? You’d need legs like a giraffe to have your knees that far forward.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  17th March 2016

              Well, maybe if a bike had cruise control, but only a fool would do that on a busy motorway. What happens if someone pulls out, or has to do an emergency stop or you have a blowout ? A tyre suddenly going flat on a motorbike is totally unnerving. The cruise control can’t take emergencies into account, surely. I can’t see in sense in risks without the chance of reward.

  3. From yesterday:

    Re: Boston Bombing

    “3 dead, 19 amputations, 264 others all injured, all treated. The evidence for this is overwhelming.”

    The MSM will repeat whatever hearsay some “official” tells them. All you’re doing is taking the MSM account of the Boston Bombing as gospel and misprepresenting the primary photographic evidence.

    “You can see people are shocked.”
    Actor can do a good impression of that.

    “And there’s plenty of blood.”
    No, there isn’t plenty, and what appears to be blood is the wrong colour. The guy who supposedly got his legs blown off in the early photos is not the same as the guy they used for the press releases afterwards, and there isn’t a trace of blood on him in the early photos.

    Re: Sandy Hook

    “If there’s nothing on that cruiser video, what of it?”
    It means that the MSM story is false.

    “Where is it parked? How much of the carpark is behind it?”
    In the video you can see the road to the firehouse that the children where reportedly taken to.

    “What other car-parked cruiser videos exist?”
    I’ve seen one other one, no kids being evacuated there either.

    “What happened to all the people who weren’t shot dead ? Did they obligingly move away and take on new identities ?”
    Nobody was shoot dead at Sandy Hook, at was all a hoax. The school was closed in 2008.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  17th March 2016

      Uggers, the Boston stuff’s all been confirmed during the trial. You know, where actual evidence & witness testimonials get presented and examined in detail – as opposed to a few out of context photos being given a distorted inpretation in the hands of conspiracist nutters like yourself. Here’s some more detais why your theories are bunk:
      http://wideshut.co.uk/review-of-jeff-bauman-legless-man-boston-bombing-conspiracy-theory-graphic-images/.

      Sandy Hook: http://www.ibtimes.com/newtown-school-shooting-anniversary-photos-connecticut-still-reeling-sandy-hook-1757012
      The dead are really dead Uggers. The MSM gets it right again. Sorry bud.

      Reply
      • “Uggers, the Boston stuff’s all been confirmed during the trial.”
        No, Tamerlan’s lawyer did not convey his claim of innocence at the trial.

        “as opposed to a few out of context photos being given”
        In what way do you think they were out of context?

        Again, the sites you refer to do not address the points I made earlier: that there was no blood on a man who had supposedly just had his legs blown off, and that the police video shows that no evacuation took place at Sandy Hook.

        Posting links to irrelevant articles does not advance your argument.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  17th March 2016

          Tamerlan was dead Uggers. Try & catch up. The evidence of the bombing, the victims injuries and their being treated was presented at the trial. Remember, you say this was all fake. The last link I gave you explains why the photos are out of context. Posting links to conspiracist photos which show blood they claim not to be there dpes not advance your argument. It only shows you to be a bit of a dick.

          The police video doesn’t show no evacuation took place at Sandy Hook. Uggers, it just shows part of a car park. Google the aerial views of SHES. Have a look at the actual size of that car park. Also the photo of the children being evacuated shows children being evacuated. You are relying on this one piece of nothing as evidence for a huge conspiracy that would’ve been impossible to pull off.
          http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/professor-fired-over-sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory/

          Reply
          • “Tamerlan was dead Uggers. Try & catch up.”

            Sorry, I meant Dzhokhar. Tamerlan was apparently murdered by police after he was arrested.

            “The evidence of the bombing, the victims injuries and their being treated was presented at the trial.”

            Here’s a link to some of the evidence. You can see that the first image used as evidence does not identify Dzhokhar, since the prosecution allegation implies that he can’t even see his face.

            http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/boston-marathon-bombings-trial-evidence/

            “The last link I gave you explains why the photos are out of context.”
            You’re lying.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              “You’re lying.”
              You’re paranoid. And either your reading ability or your comprehension skills are shit.

              You realise that Dzjokhar actually confessed and apologised at the end of the trial don’t you Uggers? Or were you still hiding under your bed at that point and you haven’t caught up with the situation since?
              http://www.reuters.com/article/us-boston-bombings-trial-idUSKBN0P417520150624

            • “You’re paranoid. And either your reading ability or your comprehension skills are shit.”

              No, I’m not, and they’re not. You could easily prove me wrong by quoting the text that explains how the photos taken immediately after the explosion are out of context, if you are telling the truth.

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              All you need to do is read the article – it quotes the conspiracy interpretation of each photos and then explains where they’re obviously wrong. But look, don’t worry about it Uggers. The thing is, Dzhokhar confessed that he and his bro did the deed at sentencing, so your whole theory is schodt to schidt at that pont anyway. Sorry bud. Better luck next conspiracy. But at least you can come out from under your bed now because the bogey men who organised it all won’t be coming for you.

            • “All you need to do is read the article”

              You’re full of shit, Gezza. If it was out of context like you say then you should be able to say how it was out of context.

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              Too much hard work. Your theories were proven wrong in the trial. Bad luck. Move on.

            • Why should anyone believe that after you were caught out lying about the context?

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              But I wasn’t. You were caught out being ignorant.

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              Just to clarify though, it’s not the photos that are out of context, it’s the accusations that the scenes show faking going on that are completely out of context with what’s really happening in those scenes. But I have no more time to waste with you. You didn’t even know Dzhokhar confessed that he and his bro did the deed at sentencing. So there’s no need for faking injuries that were actually caused. Honestly, you can come out from your bunker now, you should be safe.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  17th March 2016

              Gezza, don’t you know that the two brothers were actors who were well paid to ‘confess’ ?

            • Iceberg

               /  17th March 2016

              It’s easier to fool someone, than to convince them that they have been fooled. Stirling effort in the face of paranoid delusion though.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  17th March 2016

              Excellent effort, Gezza, but it’s impossible to convince UT. It’s been tried before with no success.It’s like convincing a cat that vegetarianism is the right way to eat.

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              It’s very sad watching them go downhill mentally like this.

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              I’ve found police cruiser video of the kids being evacuated at Sandy Hook too. He just didn’t look hard enough. And other photos and stuff showing it all really happened as well. I feel reluctant to mention it. It’s so embarrassing for him.

            • “I’ve found police cruiser video of the kids being evacuated at Sandy Hook too.”

              So why don’t you post a link to it? It makes it look like you’re lying again if you don’t.

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              Maybe tomorrow. I think you’ve embarrassed yourself enough today.

    • kiwi dave

       /  17th March 2016

      presumably in the sick twisted mind of Ugly Truth, Erebus and Tangiwai never happened either. This conspiracy theorist needs to be put to bed

      Reply
      • You own the presumed sick twisted mind, kiwi dave, Erebus and Tangiwai were real events.
        You are in no position to pontificate on what needs to be done.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  17th March 2016

          How do you know that they were ? Were you there ?

          Reply
          • Sure, I don’t know for certain, but it’s the most probable explanation.
            You can apply the same argument in order to say that you don’t know what your date of birth is.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              Well, not really, because Kitty was there for her birth.

            • Fuck off, liar. You said “The last link I gave you explains why the photos are out of context.”, but the article is talking about why there wasn’t any immediate medical attention, not my point that there was no blood on a guy who has supposedly just had his legs blown off.

            • Gezza

               /  17th March 2016

              I’m sorry that you feel the need to be rude because you are stupid. Look at the photos. There is plenty of blood on the back of his legs and on his trousers. Notice also how the bright red blood you say is the wrong colour is already darkening in places. Fresh blood is bright red. How often have you come across that much blood? Prick your finger. Compare the colour with that in the picture. Go back to sleep.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  17th March 2016

      Sadly, you are the only hoax, UT, barking up a forest of wrong trees.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  17th March 2016

      Change the record, UT, the needle’s stuck on that one.

      Reply
  4. Missy

     /  17th March 2016

    Today was budget day in the UK. The highlights (or rather the main points I can remember) Beer & Cider duty is frozen (woohoo!), Fuel duty remains frozen (woohoo), but the most interesting – and one of the controversial – a sugar tax is to be introduced on soft drinks from 2018 – an announcement that led to a crash in the share price of soft drink companies this afternoon. The sugar tax is interesting, but has been getting a bit of a slamming from some on twitter.

    I haven’t really had a chance to look fully at the budget yet, but as one of the guys at work said – most importantly the beer and cider won’t be going up n price. 🙂 Focussing on the important stuff!

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  17th March 2016

      I really can’t see the tax making a difference to people who drink these drinks. I wonder if the companies-who are making a legal product, after all-will have any way of fighting this. I saw someone in Pak & Save swigging from a large sized bottle of soft drink (tepid off the shelf, ugh) and someone who’ll do that won’t stop buying it, I suspect. She was glugging it down like someone who’s almost parched would do with water. I wonder why fruit juices and drinks, which have at least as much sugar as Coke have been excluded.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  17th March 2016

        Agree Kitty, it won’t stop people. What is most interesting about the sugar tax is that the biggest advocate of it in the UK is Jamie Oliver, but there are recipes on his website which have a lot more sugar than the products being taxed, including some of his ‘healthy’ recipes. He is being slammed in a serious way here for it.

        But for many here the biggest negative is that Tonic Water will be included, so despite Gin not being taxed more, the cost of the G&T is going to go up – and people are not happy!

        Reply
  5. kiwi guy

     /  17th March 2016

    Trump finally launches advertising blitz against future jail bird Hillary Clinton.

    Up till now he has kept his powder dry, he has demolished his Republican haters, the Hillary Billies are going to be easy targets.

    Trump has said he won’t hold back on Hillary’s covering up of her hubbies sleazy philandering behaviour – after all she rants on about him being a “sexist”. Bit women don’t matter to Hillary if they get in the way of her political ambitions, under the bus they go.

    Hillary barks while Putin laughs:

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  17th March 2016

      How many years ago was the Monica Lewinsky scandal-how many DECADES ago ? It’s not a crime to gloss over and forgive something that is also not a crime, even if that thing is immoral. If that’s the best Trump can do-something that everyone knows about (except possibly those who were either small children or not born then) he’s really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

      Reply
      • Nelly Smickers

         /  17th March 2016

        You may be being a little obtuse kitty. 😀

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  17th March 2016

          (makes rude face at Nelly)

          No, really-it’s such ancient history that I can’t imagine that many people would be interested. Those who were around then heard so much about it that they’re probably bored by it, those voters who weren’t (anyone 21 and under) probably wouldn’t be interested in the goings-on of a president who hasn’t been president in their lifetime.It’s hardly a blinding revelation, after all. If she’d covered up a crime, it might have some relevance to her fitness to be president, but being cheated on more than 20 years ago wasn’t her fault. Stale news, anyway.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  17th March 2016

            He cheated on his first wife, so can hardly be all self-righteous about this issue.

            He also demolished some famous Art Deco friezes, causing great anger and distress, which shows what kind of person he is. If it’s in his way, it’s destroyed.

            Reply
  6. jamie

     /  17th March 2016

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11607093

    A man has been found guilty of assault, injuring with intent, and grievous bodily harm in three separate violent attacks.

    The assaults involved beatings and kicks to the face while the victims were lying on the ground. In one case while the victim was restrained on the ground by two accomplices.

    Two of the victims were 15 years old. The third may be left permanently blind.

    Sentence: One year home detention.

    Reply
    • Oliver

       /  17th March 2016

      I know Jamie it’s disgusting right! That’s why I have lost faith in the justice system here in NZ. How can we repect the police and justice system when they are soft on crime? I wonder if any of his victims recieved any compensation.

      Reply
      • jamie

         /  17th March 2016

        According to the article he has “offered” $10,000 – which doesn’t mean he has paid it or ever will as apparently this was not a court-imposed reparation. And presumably in total, so $3,333 each.

        Which even if it ever does get paid, which it probably won’t, doesn’t seem like much for losing your sight, does it?

        Reply
  7. Oliver

     /  17th March 2016

    Excellent dicussion on spying powers whithout political agenda

    Reply
  8. I heard John Cleese and Eric Idle are coming to New Zealand. They used to be superb. No doubt they’ll do some weird things to get get publicity. I can imagine now, John Cleese doing his news reader serious posing and solemn voice thing: “Shock new revelations expose that the Boston marathon bombing was just a hoax.” Camera to a woman with no lower limbs. Cleese inquires of her, “Do you think this story has legs?” Suddenly a man to the side wildly gesticulates with his one arm, “We sucked you in, we sucked you in!”

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  17th March 2016

      Used to be is about right in John Cleese’s case.The last thing I saw him doing was a monologue about his ex-wife, their divorce and what it cost-only interesting if one knew them both and probably not then, really, as people who bang on and on about that tend to be very tedious. I’d be damned if I’d pay good money to hear that.

      Reply
  9. Pantsdownbrown

     /  17th March 2016

    Some judges in New Zealand are SO bad………

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/77972786/man-free-as-police-appeal-dismissed-over-child-sex-images

    The pictures, downloaded from a Russian website, included photos of children being sexually violated by adults, engaged in sex acts with other children, and being forced to perform sex acts on animals.

    Reply
    • Robby

       /  17th March 2016

      A shameful day for the judiciary with the above case, as well as the ex-cop who got a years home-D for violently assaulting three youths. IMHO both of these guys should be imprisoned in general population.

      Reply
      • Pantsdownbrown

         /  17th March 2016

        Yes, Ex-cop getting looked after isn’t too unusual as they ‘protect their own’ unfortunately – but a 40 year old IT person with a memory stick of very sick child abuse??

        “The argument that he merely collected the images, as a symptom of obsessive compulsive disorder, was “unusual” but credible”, she said. She accepted his lawyer’s argument that he had an obsessive-compulsive disorder, and simply stored them away “like a stamp collection”, never to be looked at again.

        “The man’s offending came to light after a USB with the images on it was found on a bus”

        SO he simply stored them away never to look at but also carried them around on public transport on memory stick?? That doesn’t make any sense what-so-ever.

        Reply
      • Pickled Possum

         /  17th March 2016

        @Robby this is for those ones that fake it and live in their own sick world like that IT person with obsessive compulsive disorder who other wise led a “exemplary life” FFS
        Parents in NZ will be feeling very insecure about the NZ justice system at the moment yes again and who could blame them. When I am feeling not so sick about this shit going on I have a few songs for you and Parti and of course any one who wants to listen.

        Reply
        • Robby

           /  17th March 2016

          Nice to have you back Possum, Mr ‘IT Professional’ might be a paid up National party member perhaps???
          On a brighter note, I heard this one on the radio today, brought back a few memories……

          Reply

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