Serious Jihadi bride concerns

Serious concerns have justifiably been raised over John Key’s ‘jihadi bride’ claims alongside SIS boss Rebecca Kitteridge’s comments late last year.

From Below the beltway: The week in politics:

During an Intelligence and Security Committee session, SIS boss Rebecca Kitteridge​ spoke of radicalised “Jihadi brides” lured from New Zealand. The claim was repeated by John Key. Only it was not exactly true. Reports this week revealed that no so-called “Jihadi brides” left from New Zealand. Details, who needs them? Many think the local Muslim community is owed an apology.

I think all of us are owed an apology, plus an assurance this sort of (at best) misleading won’t happen again.

Today’s Dominion Post editorial: The public were misled by the fiction about Kiwi jihadi brides:

The jihadi brides affair is extremely damaging for the Government. It raises serious questions about the accuracy of claims made by John Key, SIS boss Rebecca Kitteridge and Security Intelligence Minister Chris Finlayson.

Kitteridge told MPs in December that there had been a rise in the number of New Zealand women travelling to Syria and Iraq. Key referred to them as “jihadi brides”.

This clearly left the impression that the women were leaving from this country. Now it has become clear that they left from Australia.

But Key and Kitteridge did nothing to correct the false impression they left. It is nonsense to say, as Finlayson does, that the women’s point of departure is “irrelevant”.

In this case Kitteridge is hoist by her own petard. She has championed accountability – but failed to set the record straight on a serious issue of national security.

The matter is so serious, in fact, that the new Inspector-General, Cheryl Gwyn, should  investigate.

Chris Finlayson, finally, has shown he is not fit to be an intelligence minister. He says what matters is that the jihadi brides are New Zealanders and they might return to this country. It certainly matters that they might come back here.

But misleading the public about where they come from matters just as much.

If we are going to be able to trust our security and intelligence services then we have to be assured that we can believe what they and their associated politicians say on matters of security.

Public confidence in the spy services has been badly shaken by the scandals and shambles of the last few years. Finlayson’s arrogance compounds the problem, rather than solving it.

He shows politicians will use misleading and inflammatory language about security and then refuse to do anything when caught out. This affair comes just as the Government is about to take up Sir Michael Cullen’s recommendations giving great new powers to the spies.

Why should we trust those new powers to the likes of Key, Kitteridge and Finlayson?

With what has happened over the jihadi brides we shouldn’t trust them. They have to repair the damage and earn our trust, but instead this week they made things worse.

Key said he wanted Labour to join the Government in improving our security and intelligence services.

He must also get on the right side of us, the public. He has failed to do so. That’s a serious problem that needs to be rectified.

Stuff:  ‘It doesn’t matter where they leave from’ Jihadi brides were still New Zealanders – Government

Minister responsible for the SIS and GCSB Christopher Finlayson said the departure point of the women was irrelevant.

Asked if he thought the comments were misleading he said he would not go through it again, “otherwise I’ll just die of boredom”.

Finlayson said he would meet with “anyone, anytime” to allay fears.

“Because I’m very cognisant of the fact that they were all a bit nervy after the legislative review, in 2013.”

Apologies had to be reserved for justifiable situations, he said.

“You just don’t go around handing out apologies willy nilly.

“I regret nothing, because I think what I read is that people haven’t got their facts right, and have decided to fixate on where these people left from, rather than on the critical issue of were they New Zealand citizens.”

That sounds more like an irresponsible Minister for the SIS and GCSB to me. Very poor from Finlayson.

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70 Comments

  1. kiwi guy

     /  19th March 2016

    “Now it has become clear that they left from Australia.”

    Same diff. They probably go to their Muslim Terrorist recruitment outfit in Aussie for an interview before heading off to some Muslim hell hole.

    I’m pretty sure Pete wouldn’t be fussed about the technical details of departure points as a recently returned Muslim jihadi bride slowly decapitated him:

    “Many think the local Muslim community is owed an apology.”

    If they don’t like it here they can go back to their Vibrant hell hole:

    Reply
    • A pathetic dig KG. of course there are serious issues with New Zealanders going to the Middle East no matter what their exit point – if they return Australia probably won’t want them.

      But to deal with this we need a Government and security services that we can trust to be open and truthful.

      Your Muslim bashing and dissing of anyone who doesn’t sing your tune has gotten in the way of addressing the topic, again.

      Reply
      • kiwi guy

         /  19th March 2016

        My post is to the point. The government has not lied, thanks to Diversity(TM) we have the incredibly dangerous situation of muslims returning to carry out terrorist attacks in NZ.

        And white NZ is supposed to do the apologizing?!

        That’s the take away from all this by the NZ public.

        The Dominion Post editor lives in some fluffy Never Never Land of white Liberal Guilt.

        Reply
        • Joe Bloggs

           /  19th March 2016

          …we have the incredibly dangerous situation of muslims returning to carry out terrorist attacks in NZ

          Credible source for this please… nah, didn’t think you’d be able to provide one.

          Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  19th March 2016

          There are white Muslims, anyway.

          Where did these attacks happen ? I seem to have missed them.

          Reply
    • Oliver

       /  19th March 2016

      Where were this pictures taken? Saudi Arabia?

      Reply
  2. David

     /  19th March 2016

    Can’t see how it matters where they left from and I don’t want to know what the spooks are doing as long as they are doing it effectively. I certainly can’t be arsed with the constant conspiracy theories again, I am surprised at how open the spooks are to be honest.
    The two agencies need to be merged too and they should be able to spy on who they like and they need to keep a bloody close eye on wannabe Islamists.

    Reply
  3. The west’s slander of Islam continues. Probably the most notable case is 9/11, which was carried out by people with resources far in excess of those available to Osama bin Laden’s group. The molten steel found found in the remains of the WTC could not have originated from aviation fuel and office combustibles, meaning that the actual cause of the destruction of the WTC remains unreported by the MSM. Also, no commercial passenger jets crashed into the Pentagon or the countryside of Pennsylvania.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  19th March 2016

      “The west’s slander of Islam continues”

      Really – UT you need to come to where I live, walk past the spot where an Islamic man beheaded another young man, who had done no harm to him, all in the name of Islam. You need to talk to the locals about how this man spent years in the market preaching the Koran, you need to walk down a street dressed normally for a mild day and have men harass you in the name of Islam – for no other reason than you are a white woman.

      There is no slander in that.

      As for you nutty 9/11 comments – I know someone who was at the Pentagon that day – a commercial jet DID crash into it. Grow up and stop watching Youtube, and travel and see things outside your conspiracy theory bubble.

      Reply
      • No Missy, I really don’t need to go there. Labels and substance are different things.

        So you know know someone who was at the Pentagon. What did they actually see?

        Reply
        • Missy

           /  20th March 2016

          You do need to get out of your safe little world though – what you seem to think is ‘slander of Islam’ is experience by those who live on a daily basis with those that preach hate and commit violent acts in the name of Islam – so if that isn’t Islam who is doing the slandering? I would suggest it is those Muslims who believe in killing non-muslims. Wake up and see what the real world outside your safe enclave in NZ is actually like. And yes, I think you do need to visit the area I live in, you might actually be given a few lessons on how your terrorist apologist view of the world is hurting, not helping, those that live with the threats daily, you can see how the public beheading of a young man by someone who did it in the name of Islam has impacted and affected a community.

          Yes, I do know someone who was there. Why should I tell you what they saw? Will you accept what I tell you? Will it make you review your offensive views and maybe come to the conclusion you are wrong and the official versions are in fact the correct versions of 9/11? Until you are ready to actually listen, process and accept that you could be wrong there is no point in telling you the truth.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  20th March 2016

            I know someone who works there,she was serving in the Navy and now works for them, but I wouldn’t insult her by repeating UT’s claims.

            Reply
  4. Missy

     /  19th March 2016

    There is a rise of NZ women going to Iraq and Syria – what part of that is false? Why is an apology required?

    The fact that the media jumped to conclusions, made assumptions and reported them as fact is not the fault of the SIS or the Government. The Government was saying something related to the truth and the media embellished it. There was nothing to indicate the women were leaving from NZ, and if the media are stupid enough to print assumptions without anything to back them up they should wear it. The problem is the media are too quick to get nasty to those that they think made a fool of them, even when they did it to themselves. There is an overreaction in the media to this for that reason. Don’t be sucked into the media’s stupidity.

    The women are NZers, they are being radicalised, they are going to Syria and Iraq – they can return to NZ with their radicalised ideas, that should be the concern, not the pettiness of the media and their hurt feelings.

    I am disappointed in you on this one, especially when yesterday you practically gave a free pass to a woman who completely made something up about the Military providing security for the Government with no proof, and in the process has potentially damaged the reputation of the NZDF.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th March 2016

      I agree. Key was justifying the need for our intelligence work and cooperation. He didn’t say anything about how and where these women travelled to Syria, nor should he have. This is just a media beat up from his political opponents and most people will see it for what it is.

      Reply
    • Well said Missy. The actual departure point is some what irrelevant.

      Reply
  5. oliver

     /  19th March 2016

    Another lie, another example of dirty politics. Every time they make a balls up they lose more votes. So on that note keep doing what you are doing Johnny boy.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th March 2016

      Yes, Oliver, at this rate JK will probably lose in about three elections time.

      Reply
  6. Zedd

     /  19th March 2016

    More populous B-S from ‘Team Key’… playing the ‘TRUMP card’ again ! :/ 😦

    Reply
  7. Bangle Boy

     /  19th March 2016

    Where were these women when they became radicalised enough to become jihadi brides? Was it here in New Zealand, or perhaps in Australia? If it was in Australia then perhaps we should be looking at stopping people going to Australia, or even stopping people from Australia entering NZ.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th March 2016

      Great idea. Stop everyone transiting the Tasman because of a handful of Muslim nutters. Tell Andrew Little and he can announce it as Labour policy tomorrow.

      Reply
      • Bangle Boy

         /  19th March 2016

        Please don’t even go there, he seems to be so lacking in direction, he probably would do something stupid like that.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  19th March 2016

          Andrew-it was not meant to be taken literally. Tell him, Alan.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  19th March 2016

            Of course it was, Kitty. The more good ideas we can feed Andy the better.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  19th March 2016

              Ohhhh….I see ! 🙂

              Andrew….Alan has a brilliant idea for you-it’s the vote-catcher to end all vote-catchers !

  8. Pantsdownbrown

     /  19th March 2016

    So the govt is to blame for people making wrong assumptions, even though the main point the govt made about some New Zealanders becoming Jihadi Brides is true?

    The MSM is becoming more irrelevant by the day……

    Reply
    • Bangle Boy

       /  19th March 2016

      Kitteridge said after the hearing “the numbers leaving from NZ were small but significant”, that statement was a lie. People did not make the wrong assumption as they were not told the truth.

      Reply
      • Pantsdownbrown

         /  19th March 2016

        I agree – Kitteridge is the one that needs to do some explaining…….

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  19th March 2016

        I read the Stuff report and the words you cite from Kitteridge were not in quotes so they were the reporter’s interpretation and we don’t know Kitteridge’s exact wording.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  19th March 2016

          For example, this report does not contain those words: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/291631/terror-attacks-'excite'-nz-radicals

          Reply
          • Oliver

             /  19th March 2016

            You missed this quote from Kitridge

            “There’s certainly a few women that have left, engaged in these weddings effectively at the very last minute, and gone to Syria, and all of those factors would point to the fact that they’re going as jihadist brides.”

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  19th March 2016

              I didn’t miss it. It says nothing about where these things happened. Don’t drivel.

            • Oliver

               /  19th March 2016

              Obviously she’s talking about NZ, don’t be daft.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  19th March 2016

              More obviously, she wasn’t.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  19th March 2016

              How do you know, Ollie ? Are you also in the SIS as well as the SAS and all your other exciting careers ?

            • Oliver

               /  19th March 2016

              Who was she talking about then? Wilky.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  19th March 2016

              Evidently she was talking about NZ citizens known to have been radicalised by Australians in Australia.

            • Oliver

               /  19th March 2016

              Wheres your evidence?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  19th March 2016

              For mindless comment/question #993, answer: the entire basis of this blog post.

              Note to self: the reason we have idiots in Parliament is that greater idiots vote for them. Sigh, how depressing.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  19th March 2016

              Where’s yours, Oliver ?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  19th March 2016

              Or this one: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11559026

              Seems the Stuff journalist put words in her mouth and the mob are now conducting a beat up about something neither she nor Key ever said. Typical crap.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  19th March 2016

              It sounds like it to me. The word ‘presumably’ (although it’s an adverb, sigh) is used to mean probably but it can’t be said to be a known thing.

              Why did women marry IRA terrorists, support and in many cases join in their activities ? They did

            • Oliver

               /  19th March 2016

              Terrorist? You mean soldiers.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  19th March 2016

              No, I don’t. My family’s from Ulster, I know what the IRA did. My mother and her sister were staying near where Mountbatten was killed-the blast blew their door in. My great-uncle was held at knifepoint all one night by the IRA. An old man with a knife at his throat-very soldierly.

        • Bangle Boy

           /  19th March 2016

          Fair enough, I will still say that people did not make the wrong assumption as they were not told the truth.

          Key said after the committee there was “no question one or two people have left” for Syria and they and were known to have engaged in weddings “effectively at the very last minute”.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  19th March 2016

            You will never be told the full truth by the intelligence services, nor should you be. The media should accordingly be careful to report accurately and not make false assumptions and then complain later. The SIS had every reason to leave any prospective jihadists in NZ feeling they are being watched.

            Reply
            • Bangle Boy

               /  19th March 2016

              One should never be told the full truth? In your world perhaps. I expect a different level of accountability & transparency from the government & agencies of this country.

              I understand the need for caution and some degree of secrecy. Yet it was the government & agents who were purposely misleading the public, thus creating unsubstantiated fears & somehow justifying increased powers to SIS & GCSB. Propaganda by any other name.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  19th March 2016

              Rubbish. The media was not invited to the intelligence briefing for precisely the reason that the public will never be told the full story and neither should they be. Whatever planet you live on, it’s not this one.

              I don’t believe Key and Kitteridge were purposely misleading at all. They were pointing out New Zealanders are involved with IS so the threats and need for intelligence surveillance are real. That was their purpose and intent. Keeping scope and details secret was normal and sensible.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  19th March 2016

              It’s called the SIS, not the OIS (Open Information Service.) I don’t believe that any government tells everyone everything-puts it all out for everyone to see, in the hope that only the right people will see it. We were told the bare facts. It would have been most improper if we’d been told that X, Y and Z had left NZ via Australia to be Jihadi brides-only to have their irate families saying that they had, in fact, gone away to study or work somewhere and showing the proof of this. Or have X, Y and Z appear on the news saying that they had gone to do their OE and were now back-and demanding apologies.

              I can’t see it as propoganda-the government surely doesn’t want to stir things up unnecessarily.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  20th March 2016

              Wake up, down-voters. Do you really think that it’s a great idea for governments to broadcast everything to do with security ? That’s incredibly stupid and naive.

  9. Oliver

     /  19th March 2016

    Ketteridge should resign or the minister is security/intelligence should resign. I want heads to roll.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  19th March 2016

      You are a moron, Oliver. What you need is a new head.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  19th March 2016

      It doesn’t matter what you want, Oliver. It’s not going to happen on your say-so, Baron Munchausen.

      Reply
    • Nelly Smickers

       /  19th March 2016

      My hubby reckons you may well get your wish one day Ollie – especially if ISIS ever get a foothold in this country 😦

      Wayne’s advice: ‘when your ahead – stay a head’.

      Reply
      • Oliver

         /  19th March 2016

        Nelly I’m more likely be killed from a police pursuit than be killed by ISIS.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  19th March 2016

          If you drive like a lunatic, then there’s that chance. If you don’t. there probably isn’t. I don’t know, of course, how often you’re pursued by the police now.

          Reply
          • Oliver

             /  19th March 2016

            I killed as an innocent bystander. Obviously.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  20th March 2016

              It’s not at all obvious, you merely said that you might be killed in police pursuit. Most people who are have been driving like maniacs, they are not innocent bystanders although a few of these have been killed over the years.

    • Missy

       /  19th March 2016

      “I want heads to roll.”

      Interesting choice of words on a thread about Jihadi brides going to join ISIS. Are you talking literally Oliver? Should we be worried?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  20th March 2016

        Oliver is probably an expert on how to make heads roll with a single blow from his trusty sword-he has trained the SAS, after all.

        Reply
  10. traveller

     /  19th March 2016

    They’re New Zealanders with New Zealand passports and they married ISIS fighters after going to Iraq and Syria. Can’t see the problem myself.

    Reply
    • Oliver

       /  19th March 2016

      Exactly, that doesn’t mean they’re terrorist.

      Reply
      • Nelly Smickers

         /  19th March 2016

        Well it certainly means they’re Retards!!

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  19th March 2016

          No problem as long as they stay there with their ISIS fighters and send back their NZ passports.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  20th March 2016

            I wonder if that loudmouthed attention-seeking fool who went to Syria and destroyed his NZ passport wishes now that he hadn’t. I used to see him in Hamilton occasionally, strutting along in his Muslim clothes with the look of someone who thinks that he’s making a great sensation-but nobody took any notice. How annoying for him. I think that he was a great embarrassment to the local Muslims who must have been pleased when he left.

            Reply
  11. The numbers game.

    Is anyone able to quantify?: “Kitteridge told MPs in December that there had been a rise in the number of New Zealand women travelling to Syria and Iraq.”

    Does that mean in 2015 four New Zealand women travelled to Syria and Iraq compared to three in 2014?
    Does that mean that five travelled in 2015, a mother and her two daughters being one group, and they went back to Iraq for a family funeral?

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  20th March 2016

      I don’t think that they mean people like the Syrians I know who have been back, as have their Kiwi born children.

      Reply

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