Flag referendum results…

…are now out: NO FLAG CHANGE

  • Union jack flag 1,200,003 – 56.6%
  • Silver fern flag 915,008 – 43.2%

Total votes 2,119,953

Results here.

No surprise. And not far off my prediction.

Lesson – politicians and political parties should keep out of peoples choices and let us decide what we want. Too much interference from Key, from Labour, from Greens and from Winston Peters.

And a big black mark for the media who especially in the earlier stages trivialised and opinionised far too much.

New Zealand has voted to retain our current flag. I encourage all NZers to use it, embrace it and, more importantly, be proud of it.

To be honest, yeah we are keeping it as our flag but it has never done anything for me, so I find it hard to be proud of a flag with someone else’s flag on it.

Posted earlier:

…will be out this evening (8 pm or 8:30 pm according to two different sources) and I’ll post them here as soon as they are available.

John Key has said he is hopeful change will be chosen, based on feedback from people he has had, most National MPs say they are voting for change, and through internal polling.

But Key’s internal pollster David Farrar has flagged the chance of change inย  Why the flag vote was for the status quo.

Read from those two what you want to.

The number of votes returned is over 2 million with more to come in. That’s a very good indication of interest in the referendum.

We’ll find out soon, but most seem to expect an easy win for ‘no change’.

 

163 Comments

  1. Clemgeopin

     /  24th March 2016

    Preliminary result prediction here:

    Current flag=61%
    Key’s unasked for hugely expensive folly flag=39%

    • There’s been talk of a late swing towards change but I suspect it will be too little, too late. I’m picking around 55-45 for no change, but I’d like it to be 51-49 for change.

      • Gezza

         /  24th March 2016

        • Clemgeopin

           /  24th March 2016

          So true!

        • Oliver

           /  24th March 2016

          We should just put a silver fern on the Chinese flag and have that as our new flag. It would make more sense.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  24th March 2016

            Old joke.If it is a joke, it’s not that funny. It’s not funny at all. really.

      • Gezza

         /  24th March 2016

        Little point in speculating on prelim results really, the real numbers will be out shortly. What time was it planned for?

  2. Oliver

     /  24th March 2016

    I demand an apology from Key for wasting our money on his pet project. Apparently he’s leaving the country tonight to avoid the media and opposition. Like a child who doesn’t get their way.

    Oh well at least his popularity is way down. I can’t see him coming back from this. But it’s a good distraction from his failed dairy project.

    Could JK be our worst PM yet. I can’t think of anyone worser. Time to celebrate Labour’s victory and John Keys demise.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  24th March 2016

      Dream on, Oliver.

      • Oliver

         /  24th March 2016

        Key will be on ntzb tonight on Marcus Lush. I will be listening intently for an apology.

        • Gezza

           /  24th March 2016


          ๐Ÿ˜Ž

        • Clemgeopin

           /  24th March 2016

          Has he apologized for the dirty politics, illegal raids, Kim Dot Com, pony tail pulling, Amanda Bailey, Saudi Sheep scam, Nicky Hagar, High Tea Cup gate stunt, Bradley Ambrose, McGehan Close broken promise, TPPA…..etc etc?

          • Oliver

             /  24th March 2016

            I think he would rather give everyone a bottle of wine then say sorry. He’s a coward.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  24th March 2016

              Yes, well. we can’t all be commando snipers training the Armed Offenders Squad and SAS like you, Oliver.

              High Tea Cup ? That wasn’t high tea or anything like it. High tea is a hot meal in the evening.

            • Clemgeopin

               /  24th March 2016

              You are right. It wasn’t high tea. low tea affair, Very low. And turned out to be quite a bitter brew. Yes, was pretty hot. But the panicky scared hot pursuit here, there and everywhere went quite cold quite soon. Ended up costing the country HEAPS and heaps in legal and defamation compensation. Key, the financially very very poor man, could not cough up the moola himself of course!

  3. John Fraser

     /  24th March 2016

    Wow that money could have gone into my wife’s foot operation but spray and flyaway shonkey has chickened out, flee shonkey its in your nature.

    • Dougal

       /  24th March 2016

      What’s even more disappointing is a certain section of society has chosen to politicise a rare opportunity to make our national symbol unique. Voting against change because “shonkey” suggested it is naive and a waste of a vote.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  24th March 2016

      Calling John Key that silly name is old and tired.

    • Pantsdownbrown

       /  24th March 2016

      John Fraser: “Wow that money could have gone into my wifeโ€™s foot operation”

      Could’ve gone towards fixing your one-eye too……….

  4. Oliver

     /  24th March 2016

    Pete you will have to get rid of the Kyle Lockwood flag from your blog since it is no longer relevant.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  24th March 2016

      We can keep it as a design on the blog, Pete doesn’t need you to give permission.

    • Ratty

       /  25th March 2016

      And wasnt even to Flag protocol..

      Nz Flag to the Left…

      pretenders other side

  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  24th March 2016

    The timing of the release so obviously shows the Government wants to bury it that it is painful in itself.

    • The timing of the release is presumably based on when the polling closed, at 7 pm.

      • Dougal

         /  24th March 2016

        Correct!

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  24th March 2016

        That makes it a chicken and egg question. Honestly a release at 8pm before Easter weekend??

        • I have no idea why Easter Thursday was chosen as F day, but I think they wanted it over before April to minimise any connection with Anzac Day, but they wouldn’t have wanted it too early in the year.

          One aspect of the timing is the big movement in students in February back to University. That didn’t make it easy for them to have their enrolment addresses changed.

  6. Pete George, I am disturbed by your continued failure to send Oliver to purgatory where he belongs. His views are irrational and he is clearly using your log as a medium to defend Left Wing socialist doctrine. He has lost any credibility in my view and cheapens what was a great blog site. Sigh…..!

  7. I am not a cry baby Oliver. I tell the truth, and you detract from the value of this blog. Go away and sulk. If I was advising the Prime Minister, I would have suggested that immediately before a long weekend would be the ideal opportunity to announce news that was not unexpected, to minimise the political impact. no doubt you will disagree. I am quite happy that we will retain the present flag,and have no doubt that when our Queen passes on, as is to be expected, we as an independent nation will then reassess our options. Its called democracy in action.

    • Oliver

       /  24th March 2016

      “If I was advising the Prime Minister”

      Dream on big fella, like that would ever happen.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  24th March 2016

        How often have you demanded an apology from the PM, demanded that heads roll, demanded this, that and the other from various MPs and the Government ?

        You did it on this page !

  8. Oliver

     /  24th March 2016

    Woo!!! John Key lost!! We’re keeping the flag! ๐Ÿ™‚

  9. Gezza

     /  24th March 2016

    Newstalk ZB said we are keeping the current flag. Details to follow.

    • Gezza

       /  24th March 2016

      • Gezza

         /  24th March 2016

        56.6% Current Flag
        43.2% Lockwood Horror

        • Gezza

           /  24th March 2016

          JK, wavin’ & movin’ on out already, smooth-as …. ๐Ÿ˜Ž

      • Clemgeopin

         /  24th March 2016

        Key said: ‘ I encourage all NZers to use it, embrace it and, more importantly, be proud of it!’
        Trump said : Lyin’ TurKey!

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  24th March 2016

          When and where ? I can’t imagine Trump being remotely interested in our flag.

          • Clemgeopin

             /  24th March 2016

            “I canโ€™t imagine Trump being remotely interested in our flag”

            No kidding! LOL.

    • Gezza

       /  24th March 2016

      Missing you KG ๐Ÿ˜Ž

  10. Kitty Catkin

     /  24th March 2016

    What a letdown-keeping a flag that looks so like the Australian one that even we and the Aussies can’t tell without thinking about it which it is.

    Maybe ours could have a little fern added on.

    • Clemgeopin

       /  24th March 2016

      What about having a bit of Maori culture/history on it? After all they are the original people of this land before the European onslaught, isn’t it?

      • spanish_tudor

         /  24th March 2016

        The Southern Cross on our flag represents how the Maori navigated their way to NZ from islands further north. That’s your bit of Maori culture/history on our flag right there.

        • The fern has strong Maori connections too.

        • Pickled Possum

           /  25th March 2016

          @spanish_tudor
          yes te ripeka tonga … southern cross that is the correct history of maori great navigational skills right there even before they landed and came across the fern which is used to mark a trail in the bush to light up the trail.

    • Rob

       /  24th March 2016

      You don’t know what your countrys flag looks like, so we should change it. Doesn’t take much thinking to see the big white star, bit of a giveaway.

  11. Oliver

     /  24th March 2016

    Labour will capitalise on this victory all the way to the election.

    • Gezza

       /  24th March 2016

      42.3% of the electorate may not harbour kind thoughts for Andrew Little though.

    • Pantsdownbrown

       /  24th March 2016

      Considering a lot of people that support Key backed the current flag proves that is just nonsense (or in your case grasping for straws) – now the flag debate is out of the way business as usual with Labour shooting themselves in the foot on a daily basis.

    • Pythagoras

       /  24th March 2016

      I only wish that Labour was capable of capitalizing on any of National’s mistakes, there have been more than enough of them. But as usual, Labour will shoot itself in the foot trying, while National continues on its merry way. The failure of this vanity project of John Key will quickly be forgotten.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  24th March 2016

      Sounds like a Tui’s ad.

  12. jamie

     /  24th March 2016

    Pete, it’s the “New Zealand Flag”, not the “Union Jack Flag”.

    Very petty of you.

    • Oliver

       /  24th March 2016

      I see he is still flying the John Key flag. That better be gone by tomorrow morning. You could replace it with the Maori flag.

    • I typed the two descriptions to differentiate them before the result was known. That’s all. I could say it’s petty of you to grizzle.

      • jamie

         /  24th March 2016

        Before the result was known, it was the New Zealand Flag.

        • It was also one of two flags in the referendum.

          I don’t get what your problem is.

          • jamie

             /  24th March 2016

            Before the referendum it was the New Zealand flag.

            During the referendum process it was the New Zealand flag.

            When you drafted your post it was the New Zealand flag.

            When you published it it was the New Zealand flag.

            At no point did it cease to be the New Zealand flag. We didn’t become a flagless nation while all this nonsense was executed.

            In fact even if the referendum had gone the other way, it would STILL be the New Zealand flag until changed by an Act of Parliament.

            I don’t get why you can’t bring yourself to refer to it as the New Zealand flag, which is what it has been the whole time.

            • Because I posted what I wanted to post. Free speech is an important aspect of democracy. If I described things as dictated and excluded people from commenting because some other people don’t like them then we would have very different sort of blog.

            • jamie

               /  24th March 2016

              I called your description “petty”.

              How is that infringing on your free speech?

              Don’t take it personally Pete, it’s just a stupid flag.

            • James

               /  25th March 2016

              “If I … excluded people from commenting because some other people donโ€™t like them then we would have very different sort of blog. ”

              Different how? You’re describing the blog you’ve got. The skeletons are piling up against the walls of free speech.
              (why did you change your byline about free speech?)

            • I haven’t changed my byline.

              I didn’t see you answer when I asked you a few days ago – have you commented here before under a different ID? You seem as if you should know what the requirements are here on use of pseudonyms.

      • Dougal

         /  24th March 2016

        Is the above not a threat?

  13. Zedd

     /  24th March 2016

    ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜€

  14. Dougal

     /  24th March 2016

    I was enjoying this blog after a self imposed break. It appears it’s slowly becoming infiltrated by rejects from the standard. Pity..

    • Pickled Possum

       /  25th March 2016

      @ Dougal

      Rejects from the standard rejects from WO rejects from society its self maybe who knows or even cares where people are rejected from really imo

      That’s what the little wheel on your mouse is for … just keep on scrolling by.

      I am reminded of the men of the Riverhead tavern of years ago and think hmmm those men just gave big eye roll and then got on with the job at hand usually potting the no 8 and put another 20 cents on the table to play again. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Dougal

         /  25th March 2016

        Not my memory of the Riverbed. In fact, quite often the opposite..had a rep for being a flying Jug. I saw it first hand many times especially when the trolls with face tats and harley’s showed up. I understand your point though. It should be easy to just scroll past…I will be doing a lot more scrolling here in future.

        • Dougal

           /  25th March 2016

          *Riverhead.

        • Pickled Possum

           /  25th March 2016

          @Dougal
          Yes my mothers recollection of the Riverbed? on the occasions her ‘Wild West’ friends took her there is the same as yours, mine was the above the 2 times I went.
          Very interesting times ๐Ÿ™‚

          My mother said the Best looking men seemed to go there ๐Ÿ™‚ not the troll harley riders just the hard working drinking sort of men, she secretly crushed on, yes mothers were once young and giggly.

          The ‘Flying Jug’ there’s a pub in the west that had that name given for the mayhem and chaos caused by flying glass. Real name escapes me.

          Okaihau pub gone now was it the first pub in NZ to change from glass jugs to plastic for that very reason.

          What has this to do with the flag ref result? SFA except bit of cultural history.
          Scroll on Dougal ๐Ÿ˜‰

  15. Ratty

     /  24th March 2016

    John Key @johnkeypm
    New Zealand has voted to retain our current flag. I encourage all NZers to use it, embrace it and, more importantly, be proud of it.

    We already were before you came along

    What a fucking complete waste..

    Bye bye John

  16. “He has split the country and achieved nothing.” – Little on the flag.

    A very sad comment. Is he suggesting we don’t risk splitting the country next year?

    • Oliver

       /  24th March 2016

      Key has definitely made a mockery of this whole process, foolishly. He deserves all the criticism he gets. John Key has said some nasty stuff about his opponents, so this is karma.

    • Gezza

       /  24th March 2016

      Well, he’s milkin’ it of course. Key’s far from set families and communities against each other in any significant or lasting manner. Most people have been able to disagree without rancour. It’s a $26 million waste of money though Pete. Just what it is.

    • Ratty

       /  24th March 2016

      Nothing sad about it.. Key was looking for a legacy…

      He deserves to be absolutely crucified from all corners about it, especially in regards to crucial Social Services where funding has been cut..

      Fuck him..

  17. Alan Wilkinson

     /  24th March 2016

    Karma is we get to keep a stupid flag. I guess we deserve it.

    • Gezza

       /  24th March 2016

      But on the upside we got to reject a stupid flag as well Alan so there’s a balance there.

      • Klik Bate

         /  24th March 2016

        I’m with you there Gezza. The only reason I voted to retain the existing flag, was because I considered the alternative ‘Lockwood design’ to be an absolute load of shit.

        An opportunity lost……..

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  24th March 2016

        The only upside is we proved that the Left have neither principles nor taste, campaigning against their own policies in order to retain a piece of antiquated crap as a symbolic political victory.

        • For me it became a lose/lose situation a long time ago, certainly before the first referendum with the release of the final four then five including Red Peak. Ain’t no victory for me, nor for the nation in my opinion. It’s a crying bloody shame I reckon.

          The all important consolation is we will get a better new flag eventually, and if the republican and constitutional discussion happens sooner rather than later, perhaps it will be in my (our) lifetimes? 2021 isn’t that far away …

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  24th March 2016

            National won’t do any more referenda after this farce. Labour might try it on the basis of hoping National will have more integrity and self-respect than to act like they did but I wouldn’t bet on it. The combination of revenge and political advantage would be too tempting.

            This saga has damaged both our image as an intelligent nation and our democracy by removing the referenda path to constitutional reform.

        • Gezza

           /  24th March 2016

          You need to let it go Alan

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  24th March 2016

            I know my needs better than you. Of course the Left always think they know everyone’s needs better than they do. Hence their nanny state.

            • Gezza

               /  24th March 2016

              You’ll do yourself an injury if you don’t get the crap out of your system.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  24th March 2016

              Crap.

            • Gezza

               /  24th March 2016

              Well done. Doesn’t it feel better now. ๐Ÿ˜€

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  24th March 2016

              No, I felt fine before that too.

            • Gezza

               /  24th March 2016

              Probably best I say no more at this point. ๐Ÿ˜Ž

            • Bangle Boy

               /  25th March 2016

              If you’re having problems evacuating completly to eliminate the crap, you might want to try the Squatty Potty.

              The modern day toilet is convenient, but has one major fault; it requires us to sit. While sitting to do our business may be considered โ€œcivilizedโ€, studies show the natural squat position improves our ability to eliminate.

              Using a Squatty Potty toilet stool can help with straining issues such as hemorrhoids, pelvic organ prolapse, constipation, bloating and IBS. A great, healthy solution. Pooping will never be the same.

        • Dougal

           /  25th March 2016

          A point I had difficulty making without expletives. Thank you Alan.

  18. Zedd

     /  24th March 2016

    Maybe ‘Team Key’ should now by billed for the $27mil (from their pockets) & paid into the consolidated fund.. to go towards Education & Health care ? :/

    What F@cking waste !!!

  19. MaureenW

     /  24th March 2016

    Now that circus is over, perhaps we could have a referendum on something useful like legalising voluntary euthanasia for the terminally ill.

    • I think just about all the parties will look at that like another flag referendum – they don’t want to go anywhere near it. Sad but they don’t want to deal with tricky but very important issues.

      • Gezza

         /  24th March 2016

        It’ll come up next in the eventual republic debate. Probably best it happens then.

      • MaureenW

         /  24th March 2016

        I believe David Seymour has launched a private members bill for voluntary euthanasia.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  24th March 2016

      That would just be a waste of money.

      • MaureenW

         /  24th March 2016

        @ Patzcuaro
        How so?

        • Patzcuaro

           /  24th March 2016

          Either all referendums are a waste of money or they are all a vital part of democracy. It is not an option to only have referendums for things one agrees with.
          The aim of a referendum is to establish what the country as a whole feels about a proposal.

          • MaureenW

             /  24th March 2016

            Yes?? I don’t believe there was much of a groundswell of public support for a flag change. It was foisted upon us as a pet project of Mr Key who made it known he wanted an NZ flag with a silver fern on it. I hope David Seymour’s bill is picked up.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  24th March 2016

              You could then say that the legalising voluntary euthanasia bill is being foisted upon us by David Seymour.

              You seem to only want referendums for proposals that you are in favour of.

              Personally I’m more than happy to have a referendum to legalise voluntary euthanasia and I’d vote in favour.

            • MaureenW

               /  24th March 2016

              I fully participated in the flag referendum, voted no change.

            • Pantsdownbrown

               /  24th March 2016

              Patzcuaro: “You seem to only want referendums for proposals that you are in favour of” – well said!

            • MaureenW

               /  24th March 2016

              To @ pantsdownbbrown below ..
              How clever of you , when I have already stated I participated in the referendum. What point exactly were you failing to make?

            • Pantsdownbrown

               /  25th March 2016

              “What point exactly were you failing to make?”

              I didn’t have to make a point as it is clear to see from your discussion with Patzcuaro that you are a hypocrite?

              Whether you voted or nor is not the point, you were rightly called out for saying the flag referendum was a “circus” and “pet project” of Key and then in the same breath promoted another referendum (that you were more interested in) that David Seymour is promoting & is a “pet project” of some other people. Obviously you think referendums are only for things you find relevant, ignoring the fact that as far as referendums go the flag one had a very high turnout and a large portion of people voting for change.

              How ‘not’ very clever of you………

            • MaureenW

               /  25th March 2016

              Back at you @Pantsdown
              The process was a circus – introduced by the Prime Minister who warned his cabinet about 3rd term arrogance, and then proceeded to sway the Referendum vote to his personal choice. I don’t “obviously” think referendums are only for things I find relevant, they’re your words that you are trying to attribute to me. Not clever are you.

    • Clemgeopin

       /  24th March 2016

      Need to be held along side the general elections and Key and other politicians should shut up after setting up the referendum process and let the PEOPLE decide.

      • MaureenW

         /  24th March 2016

        Yes, I believe you’re right. Why anyone needed to know what JK’s flag preference was is beyond me.

        • Clemgeopin

           /  24th March 2016

          He was pushing his agenda and truing to influence the vote just because he is the Prime Minister! Foolish.

      • @ Clemgeopin & Maureen W – and provided the people are WELL INFORMED, perhaps especially where ‘Death with Dignity’ is concerned? Another aspect of the Flag Consideration was the dreadful mixing-up of information (or lack of it) with propaganda and influence?

        I so hope we can call it Death with Dignity or ‘End of Life Choice’, the name of Seymour’s bill?

        I fear the Death with Dignity discussion will become highly polarised and emotive, and there will be great danger of it being politicised, as appears to already be the case with a committee investigating Maryann Street’s petition, which I think is also called ‘Lucretia’s Choice’?

        https://www.nzcatholic.org.nz/2015/…/catholic-mp-in-euthanasia-hot-sea…

  20. Ratty

     /  24th March 2016

    I guess that puts to bed the Republican ridiculousness then…

    I can live with that

  21. I heard again today on the radio someone saying how the Union Jack hasn’t meant anything to us since Britain joined the EEC and pulled the plug on us back in 1973 (or thereabouts). I think, “Wow! Took us a while to get around to seriously considering removing it from the flag then. Like 43 years!”

    It’s not true of course, because well into the 90s the bulk of our immigrants came from the U.K. – and a very large number still do – the Union Jack having possibly significant meaning for them and for many, many other Kiwis as well, 1st, 2nd or whatever generation? The bulk of Kiwis went to the U.K. for their OE. People still related strongly to the Monarchy, evidence Royal visits, Charles & Di et al …

    This is not to mention the significance of the Union Jack to Maori.

    Now Peter Dunne comes up with the bright idea of having a long-ish term discussion about republicanism – including Te Tiriti o Waitangi – which of course is the discussion we must have before or coincident with changing the flag. He at least has made some positive political capital out of the debacle, albeit at the wrong end of the process?

    Oliver I personally think if Labour even try to make political capital out of it there’ll be another trainwreck, large or small, yet another “took aim and shot myself” incident, or at least egg on their face. It’s pointless having politicized it themselves and then saying its someone elses fault.

    The Union Jack means nothing to me.

  22. Patzcuaro

     /  24th March 2016

    For the Labour Party to have any credibility now they should remove the fern from their logo and replace it with the Union Jack.

    • Gezza

       /  24th March 2016

      No that wouldn’t work. Now you’re just being silly.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  24th March 2016

        The Labour Party seems to value the Union Jack over the Silver Fern as a symbol that represents New Zealand today. Either that or they were playing petty politics with the flag referendum

        • Gezza

           /  24th March 2016

          Who gives a fuck what the Labour Party thinks about anything? Not very many folk judging by their polls or election results. I just didn’t like the Lockwood Horror. Many others felt the same.

        • Gezza

           /  24th March 2016

          And there’s no reason for Labour to have to like the Lockwood Horror design. They obviously like the fern. The fern is not the problem. Get over it and move on.

          • Patzcuaro

             /  24th March 2016

            Change is a hard thing for people to accept. If we had made the leap today I’m sure most people would have been content with the outcome in a few years, similar to what happened in Canada.

            • Gezza

               /  24th March 2016

              Yes. If the Lockwood Horror had been selected I would have accepted it with good grace and moved on by now.

            • Gezza

               /  24th March 2016

              By Monday I would just be calling it the new flag.

            • Gezza

               /  24th March 2016

              Sore loser.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  24th March 2016

              I don’t have to wait that long, it is already the old flag.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  24th March 2016

              Dead right, Patzcuaro. Most people are dedicated followers of fashion. They have no more basis of judgement than following their herd and not standing out.

            • Gezza

               /  24th March 2016

              See above.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  24th March 2016

              Simple fact that you can see everywhere and in every group.

            • Choosing the Lockwood would have been “dedicated following of fashion”, which a nation’s flag needs to be above and beyond … Vexillology again …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  24th March 2016

              No, it was choosing the best available. The two Lockwoods were way out ahead of the new options in every poll I saw.

            • MaureenW

               /  24th March 2016

              It was a crappy process intended to lead the herd to support John Keys desired outcome. He should have kept his gob shut and perhaps people would not have felt they were being played for fools. I guess your point is that one herd wanted John Keys preference, and another herd didn’t.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  24th March 2016

              Yes, it was a political mistake by Key. He let his enthusiasm run away with him. He forgot he was in politics and imagined himself back in business where innovative ideas are welcomed and valued and sold accordingly. He forgot that in politics innovative good ideas are a threat and therefore hated and ridiculed.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  24th March 2016

              I agree that the process wasn’t perfect but life rarely is, you just have to make the most of it.

              I didn’t let John Key influence me, I would have voted the same way whatever he thought.

            • @ Alan – perfect description of the problem, not the solution. You seem to want to relitigate it all? The Lockwood was indeed a perfect “business” logo, but unfortunately a long way shy of a decent national flag.

              I’m all for innovative good ideas but not innovative bad ones. Not a hate thing at all. I love my country too much to inflict Lockwood on it.

            • MaureenW

               /  25th March 2016

              @Alan
              Dont close your other eye. John Key was the problem with this flag referendum, he tried too hard to influence his personal choice. That’s why 3 of them had ferns on, one was a late addition (outside of the referendum process), and the last belonged on a pirate ship. Basically there were 3 ferns up against the current flag. Nothing too wrong with the referendum idea but it didn’t need selling (dare I say it) Trump-style.

            • Ratty

               /  24th March 2016

              Canada is not comparable.. it was to unite a divided Canada, as was the South African flag

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  24th March 2016

              That is the role of every nation and the flag that symbolises it.

            • Ratty

               /  25th March 2016

              we are not divided

    • If you want to see the mentality of the political haters on the keep-the-flag side go to Brian Edwards Facebook page. The asylum gates are open.

      • I always knew this was basically a sensible, well behaved site, despite me being here. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  23. Patzcuaro

     /  24th March 2016

    It seems that the part of the reason for an impetuous to change the Canadian flag was that Canada was part of the peace keeping force in the Suez. The Egyptian government objected to the Canadian presence as they had the Union Jack on their flag. As the British along with France & Israel had just invaded Egypt to regain Western control over the Suez Canal, you can understand the Egyptian being less than happy about to have a flag with the Union Jack flying.

  24. Missy

     /  25th March 2016

    “And a big black mark for the media who especially in the earlier stages trivialised and opinionised far too much.”

    And who in the latter stages spent too much time trying to influence people’s votes with so much promotion of the alternative.

  25. Missy

     /  25th March 2016

    Here is an interesting article from the BBC today about the Union Jack, and flags. Unlike most of the NZ media they actually spoke to a vexillologist about flags, and flag design, and he had an interesting quote at the end which I think many in NZ should take note of.

    “There’s often a fundamental misunderstanding of flags by politicians,”… “It isn’t the design but what it shows about their history and means to them. Saying you like a flag because of its design is like saying you like your family because they are all handsome or beautiful. You love them because of who they are, unconditionally. Flags are a bit like that.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35890670

    • Patzcuaro

       /  25th March 2016

      We are in illustrious company, the other countries who retain the Union Jack on their flag are all trivial islands.

      The flag can’t be part of my family as I don’t love it unconditionally.

      • Thanks Missy, interesting quote. I like that general idea. I think it relates to NZ having an identity and constitutional discussion concurrent with or prior to changing the flag. Relates to the meaning or gravitas of the flag?

        I reckon it’s safe to say the latest this will happen will be 2040, the bicentennial, or the 5 – 10 years leading up to it. Hopefully sooner?

        @ Patzcuaro – trivial islands like Australia and Hawaii?

        Interesting that most of the other trivial islands’ flags are Union Jack plus Crest or Coat-of-Arms, the latters being on the list of 5 vexillologic “no nos”. Not exactly “a child can draw it from memory” material?

        Almost as though there’s a formula for previous Crown colony islands’ flags?

        • Patzcuaro

           /  25th March 2016

          @PartizanZ trivial was a little tongue in the cheek, Hawaii isn’t a country and Australia is a continent.

          In “Colonialism for Dummies” under flags, the book recommends using the Colonial powers flag in the top left quadrant with a local logo or crest to differentiate the various colony flags.

  26. Robby

     /  25th March 2016

    No surprises really, same as it is, same as it ever was. 26 million bucks down the shitter, for nothing. If you have any spare cash, please donate it to starship childens hospital, they might actually put it to good use….