Orlando shooting

A shooting at an Orlando night club is the worst mass shooting in US history with 50 reported dead and over 50 injured.

The gunman, who has been named by law enforcement sources as Omar Mateen, is also dead.

Orlando Police have described it as a “domestic terror incident” with one report saying that the lone killer has pledged allegiance to ISIS.

Stuff has a summary:

  • Reports of shots fired at 2.02am local time.
  • Orlando Police engaged in gun battle with suspect who went back into Pulse nightclub and started a hostage situation.
  • The gunman was armed with an assault-type rifle and a handgun, and had a “suspicious device” on him.
  • Orlando Police have confirmed at least 50 people died in the shooting.
  • 53 people were injured, including one police officer.
  • There were “no witness accounts of a second shooter”, according to police.
  • The gunman, named by law enforcement sources as Omar Mateen, is dead.
  • Authorities have warned the public to stay away from the area.
  • Heavily-armed police were searching cars near Orange Regional Medical Centre, a short distance from Pulse Nightclub.
  • A “loud bang” heard from inside the club was a controlled explosion by law enforcement.
  • Shortly after the attack began, a message was posted on Pulse’s Facebook account, reading: “Everyone get out of pulse and keep running”.

Barack Obama: “We will not give into fear and turn against each other”.

Barack Obama: “This is an especially heartbreaking day for our friends our fellow Americans who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender.”

Newshub: Omar Mateen father says his son wasn’t religiously motivated but rampage may have been sparked by “gay couple he’d seen kissing on streets”.

The US has 5% of the world’s population, but has had 31% of public mass shootings.

ISIS has just issued its daily news bulletin. Of note – no mention of Orlando.

“The father of the shooter said his son became incensed by sight of two gay men kissing.”

While this mass shooting is the worst in US history it is claimed to be the 133rd mass shooting in the US this year, the 15th in Florida and the 4th in Orlando.

We’re 164 days into 2016. We’ve had 133 mass shootings

The non-profit Gun Violence Archive (GVA) tracks mass shootings in the United States.

And their data shows that there have been 76 days this year with mass shootings in the United States — and 88 days without.

A total of 207 people have died in those incidents, including the known victims of the shooting this morning in Orlando.

Gunman Omar Shaddiqui Mateen, 29. Had been identified by FBI as “ISIS sympathiser”. Born in New York, parents from Afghanistan.

ckypubmuoaacwse

Mass murder Omar Mateen

Mateen was previously under investigation by the FBI in 2013 and 2014.

cvlfyx8wiaagjdp

Leave a comment

172 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  13th June 2016

    One sick country

    Reply
  2. Strong For Life

     /  13th June 2016

    The religion of peace strikes again…

    Reply
    • It wasn’t a religion, it was one person.

      Violent man strikes again in country with appallingly lax and strongly defended gun laws.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        It wasn’t a religion, it was one person.

        From your post PG: Gunman Omar Shaddiqui Mateen, 29. Had been identified by FBI as “ISIS sympathiser”. Born in New York, parents from Afghanistan.

        Guess what? ISIS executes gays – often by throwing them off tall buildings in front of crowds. They get the idea from an interpretation of one of the less strong Hadiths. Other fundamentalist Islamists execute them by beheading. It’s easy enough to do this because the scholars can find something in the Quran and / or Hadith to justify it.

        It’s a major worldwide problem, so many of these “not a religion, it was one person”s, killing so many of their fellow men and women for whatever screwed up politico-religious-pyschopathic reason, and they nearly all belong to this religion.

        Reply
      • David

         /  13th June 2016

        But its not one person is it? How many walls get built just to crush gays?

        Reply
  3. Blazer

     /  13th June 2016

    ‘….While this mass shooting is the worst in US history it is claimed to be the 133rd mass shooting in the US this year, the 15th in Florida and the 4th in Orlando.’The ‘American Dream’ writ large.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th June 2016

      We are in agreement, Blazer !!!

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        Having a whiskey and a cigar here. This is so rare something’s needed to mark the occasion.

        Reply
  4. artcroft

     /  13th June 2016

    This is what happens if you don’t have enough guns.

    (This message was brought to you by the gun makers association of America.)

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  13th June 2016

      No, Arty. This is what’ll happen when the Muslim populations gains parity with us in the West.

      Keep that six shooter well oiled, and well loved, son.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  13th June 2016

        Two of the 133 were done by Muslims. This man seems to have been a nutter, and nutters are not confined to any one group. Remember Aramoana ?

        I wouldn’t be surprised if this was old-fashioned homophobia done by someone who happened to be Muslim and a loony.The Muslim population is not the same in numbers in the West as ‘us’, surely. And as 131 of this year’s US mass shootings were done by non-Muslims, it is a non-sequitur. If they continue at this rate, there’ll be about 250 by the end of the year.

        The supposed right of anyone to have a gun in the US, nutter or sane, is their decision. Can they really be surprised when the nutters who have guns as of right use them ? You can’t have it both ways.

        Reply
  5. Klik Bate

     /  13th June 2016

    WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT

    Nightclub killer and suspected Islamic Terrorist, Omar Mateen, was a registered Democrat.

    Latest Updates and Muslim Leaders reactions to the worst terror attack on US soil since 9/11…….

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/2016/06/12/muslim-terrorist-attack-at-orlando-gay-club-at-least-50-dead-more-than-53-wounded/

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  21st June 2016

      Bare Naked Islam is so biassed and fanatical that it’s as least as bad as the extremists that it condemns-allthough as it assumes that all Muslims are as fanatical as it is, it’s probably worse.

      I don’t believe that this was a terrorist attack. It was a homophobic loony who happened to be Muslim.

      Reply
  6. Blazer

     /  13th June 2016

    ‘Nightclub killer and suspected Islamic Terrorist, Omar Mateen, a U.S citizen ,born in America with easy access to an assault weapon was a registered Democrat.’

    Reply
  7. Corky

     /  13th June 2016

    Another probable Muslim nut let lose to reek havoc on our western values because his Muslim parents were allowed to immigrate.

    What will never be canvassed in this massacre is the core beliefs this nutters parents held, and whether they had some bearing on his attitude towards gays. We know extreme conservative Christian values foisted on children can colour their world-view. The difference is Christian nutters are our “own.” They belong to us…and few go on to commit atrocities like Muslims do. Muslims don’t belong to us, and in my opinion we don’t need them.

    I’m looking for a measured response from Trump. He must not jump on the bandwagon and start shouting. His response should be something like: ” I have already spoken of my plans should I become president. I will just repeat, if I’m elected to the White House I will do my best to stop this stuff. That is my promise.”

    The voters will do the rest.

    Meanwhile liberals are at it again trying to deny Americans the right to bear arms. The latest is some nut saying the old days are over. We don’t need to defend ourselves against the British and French anymore. This correspondent doesn’t realise the only reason America is not a police state is the government knows they may be a able to wipe liberals out, but gun owners, Conservative and Democrats, will fight to the death.

    America is not a true democracy. Its is a republic.

    Reply
    • David

       /  13th June 2016

      “Meanwhile liberals are at it again trying to deny Americans the right to bear arms.”

      Of course. There response to this attack on freedom will be to strip Americans of more freedoms.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        the only reason America is not a police state is the government knows they may be a able to wipe liberals out, but gun owners

        America already is a police state. They’ve got so many police and security agencies operating there now it’s difficult not to see them as one.

        Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th June 2016

      I can’t see that it would be any better to be shot by a Christian than a Muslim. One is just as dead.

      The parents of this young man didn’t come to the US with the sole aim of having a son who would develop a mental illness and wreak (not reek) havoc. They can no more be blamed than David Gray’s parents.

      Reply
  8. Blazer

     /  13th June 2016

    ‘ The difference is Christian nutters are our “own.” They belong to us…and few go on to commit atrocities like Muslims do.’…You will find the majority of mass shootings are done by disaffected white men,many are ‘Christians’.

    Reply
  9. Brown

     /  13th June 2016

    I always wondered what would see us turn a corner in respect of questioning Muslim theology. I wondered whether a Muslim killing a whale would offend progressives enough to raise awareness but here a Muslim goes way further and kills 50 gay people. Even killing those that belong to the current darling cause doesn’t seem to have made a difference. I smiled at Pete regurgitating the “lone wolf” excuse for Islam. When the numbers mount the lone wolves become a pack. I’d say that point was reached about 1400 years ago but that’s just me and hindsight. This moron was doing what the Muslim theology teaches – nothing more.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th June 2016

      I know a medical practice where there are four or five Muslim doctors and two gay Kiwi ones. The Muslims haven’t shot the other two.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        Of course they haven’t. They’d be arrested. Not all muslims kill gay people or non-muslims or muslims from different sects. It’s the ones who do you’ve got to worry about. And sometimes their parents are fine, it’s the kids who end up doing the killing – the ones who are easier for the Islamist extremists to exploit.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  13th June 2016

          Not all straights beat gays to death, most marriages don’t end in murder. Most Christians don’t turn into Waco-type nutters and most Christian leaders don’t engage in sex abuse as Hopeful Christian did/does. Most Muslims in the West don’t do any sort of crime.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  13th June 2016

            Wasn’t it just last week that a Muslim American was feted as being one of the greatest American sportsmen of all time and whose funeral cortege had flowers thrown all along the way to the cemetery by the who knows how many people turned out to see it ?

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th June 2016

            What’s your point? I’m talking about the ones who kill non-muslims for things like doing cartoons of mo.

            Reply
  10. Nelly Smickers

     /  13th June 2016

    Wayne was just saying that we’re due to find out sometime this week, whether or not the Government is going to double this country’s intake of Moozie refugees o_O

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  13th June 2016

      Yes, its almost a given. More Muslim refugees because Key wants to placate liberals who live in leafy suburbs where throngs of immigrants don’t exist and everything is nice and white. Should a terrorist attack happen from within the latest intake, I believe John Key should be impeached and charged with treason.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        We could maybe take some of the Christian refugees from the ME who’ve escaped the muzzies who were trying to kill them.

        Reply
        • Dougal

           /  13th June 2016

          I think this is THE only option Gezza. These people are most likely to face persecution, death or torture. The rest are just running from a bad situation. A true refugee is one who escapes tyranny, death or persecution or would face such things on return. While I have sympathy for many others there are displaced, not refugees.

          Reply
        • Blazer

           /  13th June 2016

          who were trying to kill them for collaborating with invaders.

          Reply
      • Blazer

         /  13th June 2016

        Agent Orange would fix the ‘leafy’ suburbs problem Corks.It did in Vietnam.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  13th June 2016

          They are called Muslims. Would you find it acceptable to be called honkies or another deliberately insulting and derogatory name ? If not, please call Muslims by their correct name.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th June 2016

            Sorry. مسلمون

            Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  13th June 2016

            There are immigrants in ‘leafy suburbs’. My parents were immigrants, A man I know who was a Vietnamese boat person now owns businesses here, has a house on the North Shore and sends his daughters to a private school. He began as a baker and worked his way up. My town would be the poorer for not having one particular Chinese immigrant.

            I would suggest that Corky look up the definition of treason.

            To someone who’s had to leave their home, the descriptions refugee and displaced person are probably academic.

            Reply
  11. Corky

     /  13th June 2016

    Come out from under your wifes skirt, Obama. If its confirmed this was an Isis attack, will you have the balls to call it Islamic terrorism? Of course you won’t. That’s why you need to go.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  13th June 2016

      An ISIS ‘sympathiser’…he grew up riding the subways,running with people,up in Harlem,down on Broadway….hes a native New Yorker.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        The overwhelming majority of Native New Yorkers who grew up riding the subways, running with people, up in Harlem, down on Broadway aren’t ISIS sympathisers.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  13th June 2016

        True, but if his parents didn’t immigrate he would have been born in the shit-hole he belongs in and fifty people would be alive, and thousands wouldn’t be mourning.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  13th June 2016

          Imagine if you were born in Fallujah ,and woke up to find your neighbourhood destroyed and your neighbours,friends and family dead,killed by a bombing operation by a foreign nation thousands of miles away.Might make an impression on you…you think!

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th June 2016

            Imagine if you were gay or Christian or Shia & born in Fallujah and woke up to find the place taken over by radical Sunni ISIS militants. Might make an impression on you you think? The West should get right out of it and let them sort it out.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  13th June 2016

            Tell our families about it in WW2. We mostly got over it. Muslims never will.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  13th June 2016

              When you declare war ,you have to ‘get over it’.

            • Corky

               /  13th June 2016

              True, we declared war on Germany because Hilter didn’t lie to us.

        • Brown

           /  13th June 2016

          Get the picture Gezza? The vast majority of NY’rs are not Muslim and that is what sets them apart from this bloke. That we all get along no matter what culture we hold to is a nice concept but political Islam doesn’t hold to that except when under the thumb of civilisation. Take the thumb off and you get Lybia, Syria, Iran, Saudi, Quatar, Dubai, Pakistan etc … All very lovely. My butcher’s mate and his wife spent a few days in supposedly civilised Dubai coming home from the rugby world cup. Having had his wife repeatedly insulted and spat at in the street by Muslim men he’s never going back.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th June 2016

            Yup. That’s the thing Brown, isn’t it? If people think Islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion they should emigrate to one of those countries or at least get a 6 month work permit there.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th June 2016

            More votes for Trump.

            Reply
          • Blazer

             /  13th June 2016

            ever heard the term …’the cradle of civilisation’…Brown…check it out.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              Mesopotamia Blazer. Before there were any muzzos there.

            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              And when do you want to get started on honour killings & stoning for adultery?

            • Blazer

               /  13th June 2016

              Wiki….Mesopotamia (/ˌmɛsəpəˈteɪmiə/, Ancient Greek: Μεσοποταμία “[land] between rivers”; from Ancient Armenian Միջագետք (Mijagetq); Arabic: بلاد الرافدين‎‎ bilād ar-rāfidayn; Persian: میان‌رودان‎‎ miyān rodān; Syriac: ܒܝܬ ܢܗܪܝܢ‎ Beth Nahrain “land of rivers”) is a name for the area of the Tigris–Euphrates river system, roughly corresponding to modern-day Iraq, Syria and Kuwait, including regions along the Turkish-Syrian and Iran–Iraq borders……so Islam became the religion of this cradle of civilisation as it developed…yes?

            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              Nope. The cradle of civilisation had already developed. Islam came along from the shithole we call Saudi Arabia and eventually took over the whole area. A few early Islamic scholars did some great science but then the religion went fundamentalist throughout the region and all that advanced stuff came to an end. Unislamic. The West had to pick it up and continue the scientific advance.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  13th June 2016

            I know people who work in Saudi Arabia and keep going back. The women aren’t spat at. There must be some reason for Brown’s friend having this happen. I know nobody who’s been there and reported such experiences.

            Corky-Barack Obama would have to go anyway-they can only do two terms as President, I believe.

            Reply
      • Zedd

         /  13th June 2016

        @blazer

        sounds like a song, I once heard.. ‘talking that street talk.. u’r the heart & sole of NY city’ so… ‘where did all those yesterdays go ?’ (Love it) 🙂

        Reply
  12. Nelly Smickers

     /  13th June 2016

    I have just been listening to Leightin Smith on ZB, and he was saying, “The gunman’s father said his son was homophobic, and became very angry last week when he saw two gays kissing in the street……” :/

    Goodness me, even Wayne gets totally *grossed-out* when he see’s two men kissing each other, but all he ever does is make me change the channel.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th June 2016

      This isn’t the time or place for being ‘funny’ about Wayne, Nelly.

      50 men are dead. It’s a bit more serious than someone being grossed-out by seeing two men kissing, and changing the channel. We’re talking mass murder, not Wayne’s prejudices.

      Reply
      • Nelly Smickers

         /  13th June 2016

        No one’s being ‘funny’ Kitty!! I was just telling it like it is……

        And to be honest, I feel about as much sympathy for the 50 men that are dead, as they would have felt for me when my dad died last year.

        Reply
  13. Dougal

     /  13th June 2016

    This couldn’t have come at a better time for Trump. Sad, but true. Many LGBT voters are democrats and this tragedy may have some effect on the way they vote. Clinton has nothing other than weasel words for sorting out ISIS. While I reserve judgement on Trump, under Clinton, these sorts of attacks will not diminish and may in fact become more frequent. Diplomacy is not and has not ever been a valuable negotiating tool when dealing with terrorists.

    Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  13th June 2016

      Meanwhile your bestie Trump is tweeting “Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism” and “I called it”…

      From the WashPo: “Making a moment like this one about yourself – “I was right!” is the essence of Trump’s tweet – is a giant swing and miss when it comes to understanding what the broader nation requires of its leaders.”

      Trump’s task as president (and Gods forbid that should ever happen!) is not just about being a tough and unapologetic leader, but also about empathy for those who’ve lost loved ones. These tweets show him up to be a self-centred jerk.

      Ed Milliband nails it: “Can there be a more heinous, self-serving, disqualifying statement about the murder of 50 people?”

      Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  13th June 2016

      and here’s a lesson in dignity and compassion and empathy:

      We as Americans, we grieve the brutal murder, horrific massacre, of dozens of innocent people. We pray for their families who are grasping for answers with broken hearts. We stand with the people of Orlando who have endured a terrible attack on their city. Although it’s still early in the investigation, we know enough to say that this was an act of terror and an act of hate. And as Americans, we are united in our resolve to defend our people.
      – Barack Obama

      and there’s plenty more dignity on display here:
      http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/12/obama_on_orlando_massacre_an_act_of_terror_and_an_act_of_hate.html?utm_content=inf_10_2641_2&wpsrc=socialedge&tse_id=INF_9e62a21030ca11e69519013b248da655

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  13th June 2016

        I’m not sure Americans are in the mood for gracious losers like Obama and Clinton, other than the Lefty journalists you cite. Time will tell.

        Reply
  14. Blazer

     /  13th June 2016

    @Gezza…’And when do you want to get started on honour killings & stoning for adultery?’…leave our allies Saudi Arabia out of this.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  13th June 2016

      Saudi Arabia? Why pick only one country. Check out all the other muslim countries.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        In fact check out all countries there’s muzzos in. They’ve got up to it in Britain & no doubt any other countries where there’s enough of them to have the fundamentalists and ignoramuses.

        Reply
      • Blazer

         /  13th June 2016

        I mention Saudi because I thought we (the West)may have some influence there,as we haven’t tried to bomb them to bring freedom and democracy there….yet!

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  13th June 2016

          We shouldn’t be trying to bring any of them freedom and democracy. If they want that they can stop being muzzos.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  13th June 2016

            GW.Bush reckons they’re just jealous though.Recanting Islam will solve all problems…you think.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              No. They have to get rid of some of the Arab culture and customs before they’ll get freedom & democracy.

              Don’t talk to me about that war criminal G W Bush. He and his cronies including that poncy Blair should be up before the ICC. If they weren’t the world’s only superpower and they were Africans or from Serbia they would be. Those plonkers created this situation, or they certainly made it worse.

  15. Blazer

     /  13th June 2016

    ‘the first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban II’s plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land. After the First Crusade achieved its goal with the capture of Jerusalem in 1099, the invading Christians set up several Latin Christian states, even as Muslims in the region vowed to wage holy war (jihad) to regain control over the region. Deteriorating relations between the Crusaders and their Christian allies in the Byzantine Empire culminated in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Third Crusade. Near the end of the 13th century, the rising Mamluk dynasty in Egypt provided the final reckoning for the Crusaders, toppling the coastal stronghold of Acre and driving the European invaders out of Palestine and Syria in 1291.’…so there is a long history of Christians invading Muslim countries.Did not seem to work as a way of converting them.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  13th June 2016

      Now go and look up Muslim Crusades. Took quite a while to chuck the buggers out of parts of Europe too.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  13th June 2016

        so the moral ‘ of the story is?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  13th June 2016

          The muzzos take over if they get half a chance.

          Reply
        • Joe Bloggs

           /  13th June 2016

          Blazer, there is no moral to Gezza’s story – he’s just repeating a mischievous discourse that’s intended to marginalise Muslims.

          Here’s a bit of balance from Amin Maalouf’s book ‘The Crusades Through Arab Eyes’:

          the Muslim chroniclers were more clear-eyed than their Christian counterparts: they saw the Crusades, not as a holy war by Christians against Islam, but as a land grab by people from Western Europe of territories that had been ruled by Muslims since the seventh century”

          and from Carol Hillenbrand’s ‘The Crusades: Islamic Perspectives’:

          the concept of Crusade is a Western one. It has no particular resonance for Islamic ears, and the Muslim historians are not concerned with it. For them, these are simply wars with an enemy

          and from Malise Ruthven, in his introduction to Maalouf’s book:

          Indeed the Arab term for the Crusades, al-hurub al-salabiyya (‘the ways of the cross’) did not appear until the anti-colonial struggles of the nineteenth century. The Crusaders’ Muslim contemporaries employed much less emotive, secular terms: ‘the wars of the Franks’

          Note that I’m not in denial about Muslim propensity for war, just pointing out that their wars were never considered as Crusades by the Arabs fighting them. That’s just a Western fabrication.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th June 2016

            Yeah fair enough, blogsie. Call the muzzos’ campaigns to conquer their surrounding countries and parts of Southern Europe/Balkans/Asia what they were – invasions.

            Reply
  16. duperez

     /  13th June 2016

    I wondered what the reaction of Donald Trump would be to the horrific incident, expecting that whatever it was it would be news. The first I’ve seen is a Washington Post item in the Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11655480

    No surprise at all. The questions the article begs are around whether the views are absolutely personal and coming through no filters, constructed with or by a team of advisers for electoral reasons or a mixture of personal views moulded into a marketable format.

    Reply
  17. Corky

     /  13th June 2016

    Yep, turn on the Radio to hear Mark Sainsbury say this guy just hated gays… he was American born, Islam has nothing to do with it. Guns need to be controlled blah blah blah.

    Hey Mark. Under Trump as Prez this nuts parents wouldn’t have been let into America.

    I wonder if Mark can work out the implications of that policy????!!!

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  13th June 2016

      How high is that Wall the Donald is building again Corks?

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  13th June 2016

      You mean that Trump himself, with his forbears not being allowed in, wouldn’t have been in the USA ?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        His forebears probably didn’t shoot 50 people in a saloon.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  13th June 2016

          Sorry – that’s only the dead. What are there, 30-50 wounded who survived?

          Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  13th June 2016

          This wasn’t a saloon, either.

          If Donald Trump has relations in Germany, they would have been there at the time when Germans committed the mass murder known as The Holocaust. 6,000,000 Jews alone murdered and who knows how many others-gays, Gypsies, Communists….

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  13th June 2016

            that doesn’t mean they participated Kitty.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  13th June 2016

              Those who didn’t actively participate did nothing, for the most part, to stop it. A country can’t murder that number without everyone who isn’t living under a stone knowing about it. The murder victims were taken in cattle trucks from ordinary railway stations in full view of everyone in those towns to killing camps that were easily accessible-and often visible. The people knew. What did they think was going on in there, with what were obviously crematoriums belching out smoke ? They have to have known. They did know.There was a thriving industry around the mass murders and labour camps. It was written about, forsooth. People knew. There were rewards for dobbing in Jews who were in hiding. There were many mass killings in public. Nobody could pretend not to know that those were going on. I have seen photos of them.

            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              The reason many people did nothing about it was the same reason people living under ISIS control do nothing about it.

      • Corky

         /  13th June 2016

        Yes. Trump is a good Muslim name.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  13th June 2016

          Something you have to assume people will assume regardless of gramma. I’ll be more explicit next time.

          Reply
        • Blazer

           /  13th June 2016

          German apparantly…Trump’s familial name and how it changed upon entering the U.S. from Drumpf to Trump.At least the Germans didn’t practice mass murder….oops.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th June 2016

            There is that. But then everybody got into it.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  13th June 2016

              Everyone getting into it doesn’t make it right, Gezza.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  13th June 2016

              The numbers murdered in German* mass killings-I mean, those where people were killed in single incidents, as opposed to the killings in the camps-were many more than 50 at a time. Look at the mass graves, it’s impossible to tell how many are in there.

              The ones that took places in towns were enjoyed by the townspeople, many of whom brought their children to see the fun. Look, liebling, see the people being beaten to death-aren’t you glad that Mutti brought you to see this ? WHAT a treat, jah ? Ach-look, lieblings-there are people being shot-can you count them, or are there too many ? Isn’t this fun ?

              *and those Holocaust mass murders in places like Lithuania, of course.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  13th June 2016

            It was much more contained than ISIS, it could have been stopped-or not started. The Jews et al weren’t bombed, they were shot or gassed or worked to death for the most part. There is enough evidence that many or most Germans were behind to refute the idea that people were afraid to speak up that they would have us believe. Or that they didn’t know. They can’t have it both ways. They can’t have been afraid to speak against something they didn’t know about. They knew about the injustices which were the law. They saw the things that went on. People didn’t have to bring their children to see the fun. The soldiers who took part in the Aktions wrote home about it ! They sent photos home !

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              It was awful Kitty. I’ve studied it. It’s been going on for millenia though.

              The God of the Hebrew Bible commanded the Israelites to “destroy all the inhabitants of the land” of Canaan (Joshua 9:24). They were to conquer, kill, and cast out the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites (Exodus 23:23; Deuteronomy 7:1-2; Joshua 3:10). The Israelites “utterly destroyed all that was in the city [of Jericho], both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword…. [T]hey burned the city and all that was in it with fire” (Joshua 6:21,24). They also “utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai” (Joshua 8:26), killing 12,000 men and women and hanging their king (8:25,29). In Makkedah and Libnah, the Israelites “let none remain” (Joshua 10:28,30). They struck Lachish “and all the people who were in it with the edge of the sword” (10:32). The Israelites then conquered Gezer, Eglon, Hebron, Debir, and Hazor (10:33-39; 11:1-1). “So all the cities of those kings, and all their kings, Joshua took and struck with the edge of the sword. He utterly destroyed them, as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded” (Joshua 11:12).

              God had the Israelites kill countless thousands, perhaps millions, of people throughout the land of Canaan. It was genocide in the sense that it was a planned, systematic, limited extermination of a number of nation states from a relatively small area in the Middle East (cf. “Genocide,” 2000; cf. also “Genocide,” 2012). Granted, it was not a war against a particular race (from the Greek genos) or ethnic group. Nor were the Israelites commanded to pursue and kill the Canaanite nations if they fled from Israel’s Promised Land. The Israelites were only to drive out and dispossess the nations of their land (killing all who resisted the dispossession).

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th June 2016

      Would President Drumpf allow the next David Koresh’s forebears, the Bundys or the McVeighs in ? Or all the forebears of the school mass shootings ? Would there be a question on the immigration form-Do you intend or expect to have a child or grandchild who will one day do a mass shooting ? [Y/N]. Do you intend or expect to have a mentally ill child or grandchild ? [Y/N]. Do you intend or expect to have a child or grandchild who will grow up to be a serial killer such as a sniper who will terrorise an entire state ? [Y/N.]

      Reply
  18. Zedd

     /  13th June 2016

    In their zeal to condemn this as a ‘militant islamic. terrorist attack’ many seem to have overlooked that it was in a ‘Gay-Club’. Maybe this was his real/main purpose ?
    Maybe the ‘Islamic connection’ is just over-exaggerated ?? :/

    Maybe ISIL are just ‘claiming it’ to cause more controversy & hatred in USA ???

    Come on guys.. no every shooting in ‘the west’ is connected to ISIL ! 😦

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  13th June 2016

      Maybe, Zedd. Was he a muzzo? Was he an ISIS sympathiser? Do you know?

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  13th June 2016

        @gezza

        now that he’s been shot too.. we will likely never know.
        Maybe he was just ‘homophobic’ (for whatever reason)? :/

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  13th June 2016

          Oh I think we can definitely say he was homophobic, Zedd. His old man says so. Plus he killed 50 gay people and wounded at least 53. Most likely reason he was homophobic is he was an ISIS sympathiser and a muzzo. Muzzos don’t like gays. ISIS claiming it is probably just exploiting it post-event. More to come no doubt.

          Reply
          • David

             /  13th June 2016

            “Oh I think we can definitely say he was homophobic, Zedd”

            I don’t think you can, he very clearly was not in any way afraid of gays.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              I think he was. He just wasn’t afraid of unarmed gays.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  13th June 2016

              It’s going off at a tangent to say that homophobics are afraid of gays. The word has changed its shade of meaning too long ago for it to mean only fear of gays; we all know what’s meant by it.

              Homophobia has come to mean bigotry against gays rather than fear of them, as everyone must know. Just as awful and artificial no longer have their original meaning.

            • Gezza

               /  13th June 2016

              And acronym.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th June 2016

      Acronym cannot mean anything other than initials that can be said as a word, or it becomes meaningless. If all initials are acronyms, then everyone’s initials are acronyms. Some words cannot change their meanings-usually nouns. House, tree, foot, dog, road and chair mean what they always have.

      Reply
  19. Zedd

     /  13th June 2016

    @gezza

    i need to be careful what I say; I’ve read the english translation of the Qur’an/Koran & I’ve got a beard too ! :/

    BUT I have not recited the ‘Shehadah’ (?)/testament of faith (yet)

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  13th June 2016

      The Quran’s not specifically anti-gay Zedd. In fact you can even find early homoerotic islamic art. Sharia law is though.

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  13th June 2016

        @gezza

        The Qur’an may not be ?
        BUT the ‘God’ of the Bible sounds like he is; remember Sodom & Gomorah ? :/

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  13th June 2016

          He’s caused a lot of trouble as well Zedd. Paul didn’t help.
          http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_homosexuality.htm

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  13th June 2016

            Not only Sodom and Gomorrah, Zedd. St Paul was extremely homophobic as well as laying down the law about women not preaching in churches-something almost all churches ignore-and various other things that modern churches ignore. How many Christians obey the Book of Hebrews’ injunction to visit widows in their affliction ? A grand total of one in my case (one visit) and this seems to be par for the course from what I gather.

            I have had far more care and kindness from my Muslim GP, far above and beyond the call of duty, than I have from any Christian, although I know so many who go to church every Sunday and call themselves Christians-people whom I naively imagined to be my friends.

            Reply
    • Gezza

       /  13th June 2016

      How many of these were 50 gays dead and 53 currently known wounded?

      Reply
    • Brown

       /  13th June 2016

      Bill Whittle claimed that once you eliminate black on black and black on white shootings the numbers of shootings drop to a level that is trivial with US stats better than NZ’s. I’ll see if I can find the link. I don’t think its guns – its culture and, in the case of Muslims, religion.

      Reply
    • David

       /  13th June 2016

      How many of those are gang related exactly?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  13th June 2016

        If that’s a country’s culture, I don’t want to live there.

        What’s the point of eliminating killings of blacks ? They’re just as dead as whites. The US murder rate is far higher per 100,000 than ours. It’s higher than most places.

        How many school shootings did we have last year ?
        When was the last time someone went into a cinema and shot a lot of people ?
        Which universities here have had mass murders ?
        When did we have a sniper going around in a specially adapted car so that he could shoot out of the boot ?
        When did we last have drive-by shootings, or mothers killed by their toddlers when these have found and used mummy’s gun ?
        When did we last have a serial killer ? We have had a few serial rapists, but serial killers ?

        Reply
    • duperez

       /  13th June 2016

      I often hear about the USA being Christian country. So does that mean most of those mass killings were done by Christians?

      Reply
  20. Gezza

     /  13th June 2016

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  13th June 2016

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  13th June 2016

        No argument from me.

        Reply
      • Pete Kane

         /  13th June 2016

        Wonder if the Australian one relates to the removal of the Whitlam Government? (May equally relate to bases and the entry point into SE Asia)

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  13th June 2016

          Unless we know what was going on there, this tells us nothing. What about the Korean and Vietnam wars ? I assume that there are included.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  13th June 2016

            Any assumption that these were all Muslim related is based upon nothing except bias.

            Reply
      • Corky

         /  14th June 2016

        What’s your point?

        Reply
  21. Pete Kane

     /  13th June 2016

    Our own Governments announcement on raising the refugee quota (in about half an hour) will no doubt displease many. That’s assuming as signalled it will be an increase and from the current Middle Easton exodus. Although I suspect the latter will be played down.

    Reply
  22. Joe Bloggs

     /  13th June 2016

    Just a small observation on how this is being framed as the “most deadly shooting in American history” or the “largest mass shooting on American soil”

    I wonder what the more than 150 (Dee Brown wrote of over 300) men, women, and children of the Oglala Lakota killed by the US 7th Cavalry at Wounded Knee in 1890 might have said about that…

    and the eye-witness accounts:

    “There was a woman with an infant in her arms who was killed as she almost touched the flag of truce … A mother was shot down with her infant; the child not knowing that its mother was dead was still nursing … The women as they were fleeing with their babies were killed together, shot right through … and after most all of them had been killed a cry was made that all those who were not killed or wounded should come forth and they would be safe. Little boys … came out of their places of refuge, and as soon as they came in sight a number of soldiers surrounded them and butchered them there.”

    “I know the men did not aim deliberately and they were greatly excited. I don’t believe they saw their sights. They fired rapidly but it seemed to me only a few seconds till there was not a living thing before us; warriors, squaws, children, ponies, and dogs … went down before that unaimed fire.”

    …for which heroic action at least twenty of the ‘Fighting 7th’ were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor…

    Reply
    • David

       /  13th June 2016

      76 died at Waco, that was a mass shooting wasn’t it?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  13th June 2016

        not christians involved in either incident…I hope……..

        Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th June 2016

      Don’t be silly, Joe, those were redskins-they didn’t count, it wasn’t like white people. THAT won’t be quoted, you can bet.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  13th June 2016

        Most at Waco weren’t shot, they died in fires begun by Waco people, but it’s the same principle. I had forgotten the fires. The ones who began the fires were the killers. The survivors tried to claim that the (troops*) had begun the fires, but this doesn’t stand up. Maybe one could have been begun by the firing, but not all, and recordings have men inside Waco taking about spreading fuel. I have real doubts about the wisdom of sending in the (troops) rather than just surrounding the place, I must say.

        Christians do mass killings ? Never.

        The fact is that most Christians/Jews/Muslims/believers DON’T do these things,

        * I forget who these were, I forgot to look.

        Reply
  23. Zedd

     /  13th June 2016

    Al Jazeera reports: that Mateen’s father said ‘It has nothing to do with religion’.. BUT he apparently hated ‘Gays’ ?
    & his ex-wife said ‘he had mental illness & was very violent’.. thats why they split up :/

    BUT the Police are treating it as a ‘terrorist attack’ anyway, based on supposed ‘radical statements’ ?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  13th June 2016

      More to come no doubt.

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  13th June 2016

        entirely possible… 🙂

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  13th June 2016

          Gunshops will be doing a brisk trade again I imagine.

          Reply
          • Brown

             /  13th June 2016

            Yep, you don’t see shootings where guns are allowed. Even Fort Hood was gun free when a Muslim brought about an ‘industrial accident’.

            Anyway, here’s Bill to sort you anti gun pansies out.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  13th June 2016

              Well, no, one would hardly expect to see shootings where there are guns, any more than one sees car crashes where there are cars or air accidents which involve planes. Shootings done with guns ? Not in the USA. Not at Columbine, Sandy Hook or any other place where mass shootings didn’t really take place.

              Which version of the Bible do you read, Brown ?

  24. Brown

     /  13th June 2016

    I’m not sure you are being serious KC. Of course you don’t get car crashes unless there are cars or aeroplane crashes without planes but last time I looked I couldn’t buy a car or aeroplane and slip it under my kilt on the way to the night club. You can’t stop illegal guns because they are easy to buy so it seems sensible to let safe people have them as well. That’s Detroit’s problem – the bad guys go at it and good guys just have to suck it up with the rules meaning nothing is going to change.

    I’m not sure what your point is but I have lots of bibles – I like the old style of the KJV although, allegedly, its not the best translation.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  13th June 2016

      NIV’s probably the best these days. More scholarship’s gone into it.

      Reply
      • Brown

         /  14th June 2016

        Maybe, but at the end of the day its all about understanding through proper study using external resources and the learning of ages.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  14th June 2016

          There’s a heap of research into the Bible from all sorts of scholars, religious and purely academic Brown. I’m not religious but I still take an interest in it. More recent scholarship sometimes overturns earlier views. The New Testament is particularly problematic, it not even being possible to definitively identify the authors of any of the gospels.

          Reply
  25. Klik Bate

     /  13th June 2016

    I’ll just be pleased to finally see the arse end of Ramadanadingdong for another bloody year :/

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s