Motives of Cox’s killer

The motives of Thomas Mair, the killer of British MP Jo Cox, have been the subject of a lot of speculation and denial.

Lone killer? Or connected to a radical group? Similar arguments were raised in the Orlando killing.

There have been suggestions that both Mair and Mateen were associated with radical groups, but claiming to be acting for ISIS or Britain First does not mean they are a part of those groups, just that they have used the groups for motivation or an excuse.

SB at WO claims:

Today’s face of the day Thomas Mair, wasn’t the politically motivated killer the media initially made him out to be.

screen-shot-2016-06-16-at-18-25-53-640x480

There must be some political motivation in a targeted killing of a Member of Parliament.

Martyn Bradbury takes an unsurprisingly different approach in So when will the right start blaming the killer of Jo Cox on Christianity?

It’s interesting to see the muted reaction to the terrible killing of British Labour MP Jo Cox. The killer has been connected to a far right Christian pro-apartheid group yet the right aren’t calling it terrorism by Christianity.

But it wil probably take time to determine what drove or inspired or corrupted these two killers. Particularly with Mateen, as he is now dead. Mair is speaking to police so may provide some insights.

A lack of insight is dominating comments so far. SB highlighted this:

The organisation Britain First, which was founded by former members of the British National Party, has denied that Mair was associated with it and say they condemn the killing.

– theindependent.co.uk

That means little on it’s own, especially when you see some of the Independent’s headlines as opposed to one selected paragraph:

From the second of those:

Speculation has raged about the motive for the attack after a number of separate eyewitnesses said Ms Cox’s attacker shouted “Britain first” – a longstanding far-right slogan – during the assault.

“Britain First” is also the name of a far-right organisation in Britain which recently publicly advocated “direct action” against Muslim elected officials. The group says it condemns Ms Cox’s killing.

Speculation is likely to continue to rage along with accusations and excuses.

Terrorism or not is a part of the discussions.

Mateen claimed allegiance to a terrorist group but he acted alone and his killings could just as easily be seen as a homosexual hate crime.

It’s still uncertain whether Mair has wider connections or is a lone killer, but I’m sure there are more than a few politicians facing some terrifying realities of their high public profiles and the abuse and threats that are often publicly or privately made against them.

Mair’s motives may emerge in time but the scene has been set already for entrenched opinions based on scant information.

 

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65 Comments

  1. duperez

     /  18th June 2016

    Any scene is set for entrenched opinions based on scant information in just about any incident. The opinions fly free and spin into a fabric woven of half-truths, possibilities, postulations, wild guesses and hope.

    Some who wrap themselves in that blanket are so happy to be warmed by it they can’t see how threadbare it is, gossamer, a mirage time will dissolve.

    Recognition of the eventual dissolution is unlikely, unwanted, as a next blanket is sought, woven and grabbed to swaddle a new ignorance.

    Reply
  2. PDB

     /  18th June 2016

    If the far left here were keeping to type why are they not blaming British MP Jo Cox for daring to publically voice views that ‘stir up’ nutters like Thomas Mair?

    Sue Bradford on the WINZ shooting: “Shocking news coming in of Work & Income shooting: awful, but a risk when office becomes front for brutal policies.”

    David Shearer also said recently that Bennett was ‘out of touch’ because the police decided to give her protection at a recent public meeting. The kind of violent incidents like the killing of Jo Cox suggest it is David Shearer who is the one out of touch.

    Reply
    • David

       /  18th June 2016

      “If the far left here were keeping to type why are they not blaming British MP Jo Cox for daring to publically voice views that ‘stir up’ nutters like Thomas Mair?”

      Because its only the ‘right wing’ who stir up hatred. If the left do it, its a genuine expression of opinion and for the greater good.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th June 2016

      That remark of Sue Bradford’s was appalling; it was really justifying the shootings.

      Brutal policies ? I’d like to know which WINZ policies are as brutal as two murders, I must have missed these.

      I now depend on WINZ for my income, and it’s tiny, but I haven’t murdered the local WINZ workers because of this.

      Reply
  3. Kevin

     /  18th June 2016

    “Martyn Bradbury takes an unsurprisingly different approach in So when will the right start blaming the killer of Jo Cox on Christianity?

    It’s interesting to see the muted reaction to the terrible killing of British Labour MP Jo Cox. The killer has been connected to a far right Christian pro-apartheid group yet the right aren’t calling it terrorism by Christianity.”

    If the Bible had passages calling followers to kill hippy politicians. And if the killer had acted in the name of “Jesus” then, sure, I’d blame Christianity.

    Oh, and the reaction by the Left has been far from muted. They’ve been very quick to blame the extreme Right. Contrast that with the Orlando killings where we’re supposed to hold of making a judgement call until we “know all the facts” instead of pointing the finger at Islamism.

    Reply
  4. Kevin, I understand your point. However, we don’t have anymore than media reports on the incident, and speculative comment about the killer’s motivation. Initial comments I have read indicate the killer may have an obsessive mental condition, which I conceded is no excuse for murder. Was it preplanned? Or was it a spur of the moment act? I don’t believe the latter is the case as he was carrying a pistol and a knife. I just regret that such a young intelligent and warm hearted woman was murdered in a so-called civilised place.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th June 2016

      It could have been both planned and spur of the moment-he was thinking about it and then saw his chance to actually do it.

      Reply
      • Its the fact that he was carrying the gun and a knife is evidence of prior planning to kill.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  18th June 2016

          He could have been a fantasist whose fantasy suddenly became the real thing when he saw Jo Cox in the street.

          Reply
  5. David

     /  18th June 2016

    ” The killer has been connected to a far right Christian pro-apartheid group yet the right aren’t calling it terrorism by Christianity.”

    I imagine this is for a number of reasons.

    – There is not a culture of mass murder in the name of Christianity in recent history.
    – Not a lot of Christian religious figures seem to be calling for the deaths of female MPs
    – There doesn’t seem to be many Christian countries who have the death penalty for female MPs
    – I don’t recall many Christians crushing female Mps under walls or throwing them off high rise buildings
    – He dose not seem to be a regular at a local church
    – There are not dozens and dozens of Christians committing acts of terrorism every year that I can recall.
    – The Pope doesn’t seem to be down with killing apostates.

    Just a thought.

    Reply
    • Brown

       /  18th June 2016

      The lefties will find out that its possible the killer’s great great great grandfather was possibly seen at church one Christmas in 1857. That will be evidence enough to blame Christianity.

      Reply
      • David

         /  18th June 2016

        I don’t think they would bother actually getting out and trying to find something like that out. They will just keep repeating any suitable lie until it becomes the ‘truth’.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  18th June 2016

          A significant problem with the MSM is that they rush to interview anybody including people who claim to have spoken to someone who said they saw or heard something, then they print or show interviews with them on tv. But they don’t follow up & correct that information when those interviewees’ statements are found to be wrong or just gossip. The US authorities are more likely to disclose more official information early to the press than the UK or NZ police, who tend to wait for the case to come to Court for the details to come out.

          Reply
    • duperez

       /  18th June 2016

      As soon as the terrible incident happened a thousand media outlets were on missions to find who the killer was connected to. They wanted to find something before anyone else did, they wanted to find connections no-one else found.
      A zillion consumers were out here wanting connections to grasp on to, ready to be angered astonished, amused, appalled, entertained or boosted into action.
      Being Muslim (or not) black (or not) are merely the first “go to” currently. Those are the beginning connections we demand be checked.

      In five years time it could be that initial searches are about whether or not a particular perpetrator wasn’t breastfed from birth. That couldt happen if some researcher comes up with data that says 93.8% of mad killers weren’t breastfed.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th June 2016

      There have been terrible things done in the name of Christianity in the past-and not only the distant past, either. The murders at Waco (and they have to have been murders, nobody would stay and be burned to death, the instinct to flee would take over) killed 76 people in the name of Christianity.

      Reply
      • David

         /  18th June 2016

        “There have been terrible things done in the name of Christianity in the past-and not only the distant past, either. ”

        There must be a Goodwins law for false equivalency.

        “The murders at Waco (and they have to have been murders, nobody would stay and be burned to death, the instinct to flee would take over) killed 76 people in the name of Christianity.”

        Nobody would strap on an explosives belt and blow themselves up along with random children in the name of god either would they?

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  18th June 2016

          Oh dear, you are beginning to sound like someone who used to be here and who leapt on almost everything I said, no matter what it was. Very tiresome.

          Reply
  6. Gezza

     /  18th June 2016

    Seem to be a few differences. There seems to be a lot more information on Mateen’s background now, and a lot more info on his old man who also seems an oddball character with islamic extremist views of his own. Mateen rang 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS and said he was carrying out a lone wolf attack during the actual assault. Also he’d been investigated twice by the FBI for making statements supportive of Islamic terrorism/terrorists. He might well be a nutter as well, but he aligned himself much more squarely with Islamic terrorists than Mair has done with Christianity. And he’d been on the FBI’s watchlist.

    Mair, well, we know he had mental health problems, reportedly subscribed to at least one South African white supremacist magazine some time ago, may have called out “put Britain first” during his attack (conflicting reports on that – but the press was in the faces of everyone who wanted to talk to them, so 2nd hand gossip reports won’t be as much value as those of the ones who were close enough to actually hear and see what happened) and, from what Missy says, Mair had googled, and purchased books on how to make his own firearms, Give it a few more days and we may know more about him than just according to “bystanders” and a neighbour.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th June 2016

      I don’t blame the bystanders for fleeing, I fear that I would have, too. Their recall will inevitably be confused, nobody stops to take notes at such a time, and they would be in shock. I made notes immediately afterwards of what I saw of the assault in the main street of Hamilton, but had there been a shooting I would have run away, and I imagine that the girl who took the video that she handed over to the police would have, too. I do admire her good thinking, taking a handy little film to show what was happening-three rescuers were on their way by this time. There’d be nothing that one could do with a loony who has a gun and one could be the next victim.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th June 2016

      If it was a home-made gun,. that might explain why the shots didn’t kill her.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  18th June 2016

        Anyone who calls 911 for such a thing (pledging allegiance to Isis) has to be a loony.

        Reply
  7. Zedd

     /  18th June 2016

    The UK Labour party should demand the Death penalty for ASS-holes like Mair !

    now we seen what the extreme right are capable off 😦

    RIP Ms Cox :/

    Reply
    • David

       /  18th June 2016

      Nothing like the regressive left in action. There is of course the chance your being ironic, but somehow it doesn’t seem so.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th June 2016

      Stalin and his merry men showed what the far left is capable of.

      Reply
  8. PDB

     /  18th June 2016

    Exclusive!!! media look into Thomas Mair’s extremist topiary gardening links!

    Newsworld: “According to his half brother, Duane St Louis, who is of mixed heritage and 41—the same age as Jo Cox—Mair had not had a girlfriend for years, and threw himself into gardening. He was unemployed, but always on the lookout for a job and cut neighbor’s hedges voluntarily”.

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  18th June 2016

      nobody goes around cutting anybody’s hedges ‘voluntarily’………..

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  18th June 2016

        They might if they were bored enough and hoped that the neighbour would pay them…

        If Mair really was a topiarist, I wonder what shapes he cut the plants into. Swastikas ? Nazi saluting hands ? I wouldn’t be letting a far right extremist near my trees. Or a far left one, either.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  18th June 2016

          Or a frenchman. They’d probably be cutting them in the shape of a coq.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  18th June 2016

            A rooster shape would be rather kitsch and difficult to maintain. 😀

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  18th June 2016

              The far lefty would make the bushes into hammer and sickle shapes.

            • Gezza

               /  18th June 2016

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  18th June 2016

              Blimey. I’m glad that I don’t have to maintain that. Topiary isn’t my scene, anyway. I like the unti-er, the natural look. A neighbour pruned the straggly overhanging branches of my oak tree, and now I’ll have to do them on my side as the oak tree looks rather an odd shape. Why some fool put an oak tree there is beyond me.

  9. Halliver

     /  18th June 2016

    I don’t think we should over look the fact that her killer was a Christian extremist terrorist. We should be keeping a close eye on those radical chuchies.

    Having reviewed all that facts I have come to the conclusion that this is a false flag event. If it could happen to David Kelly it can happen to anybody.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  18th June 2016

      How do we know he was a Christian extremist?

      Reply
      • Halliver

         /  18th June 2016

        It’s all the news

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  18th June 2016

          I haven’t seeing anything saying he was killing for Jesus or was overtly Christian in any way, only that he was supposedly a supporter of a far right group.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  18th June 2016

            I can’t imagine the Britain Firsts wanting to acknowlege him as one of the bros, even if he was one-or even a prospect. Our own dear ( oh blast, the name has just eluded me-the nationalist, racist group-you know who I mean) would be disowning any of theirs who did such a thing, The BFs (good initials) are probably too gutless to admit that Mair was a member, even if he was.

            Hallioliver doesn’t say how these churches are to be selected. Does he advocate the old-fashioned Russian way of spies joining the congregation of any possibly extremist churches ? It wouldn’t take too long to work out who they were. I have known two cases, and everyone knew that old Mrs X was the church spy and that you were careful about what you said to Fr Y* as it could go straight back to the embassy. My old man, who was that religion, would have known many more as, with some nationalities of that particular church, there was certain to be a spy in the congregation-or was at one time. I don’t know about now, but I wouldn’t rule it out.

            * I was told by another priest that nobody would make their confession to a particular priest. When I knew more about him-he was a spy-I could see why. But this was known by the local churches for years and was very stale buns when he was outed & it made the press. Yawn.

            Reply
        • Missy

           /  18th June 2016

          Not that I have seen. Please link to the articles that state he was a Christian Extremist.

          Reply
  10. Missy

     /  18th June 2016

    I find it frustrating so many are trying to call this terrorism and say this is the same as Islamic Terrorism, it is not.

    Terrorism is the calculated use of violence or threat of violence against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nations, this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. (this is from the oxford dictionary).

    What this was is not part of a sustained campaign of violence for political or ideological gains, nor was it intended to instil fear in the population. This was not an act of terrorism, no matter how much the lefties or islamist apologists would like it to be. When a loner acts in the name of ISIS it can be referred to as terrorism as the group themselves have called for their supporters and members to rise up and act individually in their own countries – so the actions of someone like Mateen, who claimed to be working in the name of ISIS, and had his actions claimed by ISIS are terrorism. This man was not working in the name of any political organisation.

    His alleged shouting of Britain first – or Put Britain first as some have suggested he said, can be taken in another way to the spin of the hysterical lefties. This was a man with mental issues who had seen his treatment cut due to austerity measures, from what I understand in the media coverage I have seen and heard today he blamed his MP for it as she was part of the ‘establishment’ that led to it, he didn’t differentiate between Government and Opposition MP’s, but also note she was a supporter of Syrian refugees and of more immigration, this could also have led him to believe his MP was not looking out for British people. An unstable man in an emotional state, with unknown Mental Health issues was pushed too far. I am not excusing him, but showing why this is not the terrorism some would like to label

    His far right extremist links are so far limited to buying a book from a group, having neo-nazi memorabilia, and I believe membership of a South African group about 10 years or so ago, I have not seen as yet where he was a current member of any group, though it is hard in the saturation of media coverage and the rush to blame anyone with links to far right groups or the Brexit campaign by the media to read everything being written. His friends, neighbours and family have indicated that he was not usually political.

    It is these reasons I believe using the word terrorism in describing this is wrong. In my view this is an assassination, not terrorism. This is one person with a grievance (and mental illness) out to kill a political figure – assassination not terrorism.

    Those calling it terrorism are, in my opinion, deliberately trying to muddle the discussion and will in my opinion be making matters worse. And those calling it far right Christian terrorism are being deliberately deceitful as it hasn’t been stated anywhere that he is a Christian – far right or otherwise.

    I do note however, that conveniently no-one here appears to have made mention of the fact that this MP had been the target of a sustained hate campaign, she had been receiving hate mail for months, and some pretty disturbing sexually motivated threats as well from what I have heard reported here. The police were about to increase her security as a result of the campaign. This is the tragic result of those who feel emboldened when little or nothing is done about these kind of threats. I hope that the NZ police are looking at this, and will be tougher on those online who write threats against MP’s and Ministers, I have seen some pretty vile threats on FB and in blogs, and the reaction of most people is that it is just words and means nothing, and of course people won’t act on it – this shows that someone can and will act on it. And before the resident lefties get in, I don’t just mean far right, I mean anyone, there were some vile attacks last year against UK Labour MP’s that were carried out by supporters of Jeremy Corbyn – the left are as capable as the right.

    Reply
  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  18th June 2016

    Odds are that both killers are principally seriously mentally disturbed and any political or ideological contribution to their motivation was secondary and arbitrary.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  18th June 2016

      They’d have done something anyway-they were just waiting for a trigger ? I am inclined to agree. The slack gun laws in the US are a gift to nutters with paranoid tendencies. I am tired of hearing that guns don’t kill people, people kill people-how disingenuous. If Mateen hadn’t had a weapon of the type that he had, 50 people wouldn’t be dead. If he’d gone in with a baseball bat or a knife, he couldn’t have killed so many, he’d have been shot dead by the armed security guard or overpowered by the others.

      If they hadn’t been attracted to the groups to which they professed allegiance, it would have been another group.

      Reply
  12. Missy, I accept your general thesis. However, terrorism is mot just aimed at civilians, it is also aimed at the military. Believe me, it is no fun driving around in an atmosphere where IADs are being used, and thinking about military families in a combat zone, not knowing from moment to moment whether they are safe or not. The tempo of life changes, and the enjoyment of time together in a protected environment is precious. We don’t respect how lucky we are at times here in NZ.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  18th June 2016

      bjmarsh – true, my definition was from the Oxford Dictionary, but as you say Military are as much a target of terrorism as civilians, and I should have acknowledged that, especially as I live a couple of blocks from where the only act of terrorism against the Military on UK soil happened, and it is a daily reminder when I pass the spot where it happened.

      Reply
    • Halliver

       /  18th June 2016

      Except our military doesn’t fight, they just wave, smile and hand out lollies

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  18th June 2016

        Yep exactly, that is why in the last 10 years two soldiers have been awarded two of the highest Military honours – a Victoria Cross and a NZ Gallantry Star (the latter only recently), they give those out for waving and handing out lollies…. (/sarc)

        Don’t make such stupid comments when you obviously know nothing about it.

        Reply
      • Halliver

         /  18th June 2016

        no they give those medals out as part of the pro war US empire war propaganda. Don’t be so nieve

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  18th June 2016

          Can we have the other Halliver who spells better?

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  18th June 2016

            is that a spelling or grammatical mistake…how about this …Iceberg,anyone…’I dear you to jump off the cliff’…spelling mistake or grammatical error?thx.

            Reply
        • Missy

           /  18th June 2016

          what is nieve? I don’t understand the meaning of that word.

          As for why they give the awards out, how would you know? Have you read the citations? Because I know for a fact the Gallantry Star that was awarded was nothing to do with anything the US was involved in – I have read the citation.

          Don’t be so ignorant.

          Reply
          • Missy

             /  18th June 2016

            Hold forth, just looked up the dictionary meaning of nieve.

            Archaic Northern British or Scot meaning: a clenched fist or closed hand.

            Halliver, I am not sure why you think I am being a clenched fist or closed hand, but as I wasn’t being either of those things that makes your last sentence irrelevant.

            Reply
        • Halliver

           /  18th June 2016

          you don’t get it do you Missey? you must be one of those people who have difficulties learning.

          Reply
          • Missy

             /  18th June 2016

            Since I have ‘difficulties learning’, and obviously don’t understand, even after reading the citation and knowing what the Gallantry Star was awarded for, and you obviously know all about it, could you be so kind as to explain to me what about the Gallantry Star recently awarded was to do with ‘he pro war US empire war propaganda.’

            After all, for you to be so insulting towards me about my understanding of it, you will have read the citation, spoken to the soldier and his comrades, know exactly what he was doing, where he was serving and what he did to earn it – right? and so therefore be able to explain exactly what it has to do with US war propaganda.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  18th June 2016

              Missy, really-do you know who, or rather what Holliver is ? He is a former military sniper, SAS trainer, intelligence officer and I forget what else. He must know what he’s talking about. His real name is Munchausen. Oh dear, I’ve let it out. Please forget that you heard that. If he says that his former trainees were given VCs and other medals for something particular, that’s what they were given them for. He’d know, he was there.

            • Halliver

               /  18th June 2016

              David Dunncan got the star for being shot in the leg and willie apiata go a VC for carry a comrade to safety. If they gave awards out for that kind of stuff during WW2 then hundreds of thousands of soldier would have got stars and VC. It just reinfoces my point that these medals are propagnda stuff for the invasion of Afghanisatn.

            • Missy

               /  18th June 2016

              Sorry Halliver, you are wrong. David Duncan did not receive the NZ Gallantry Star, he received the NZ Gallantry Award. Try Again.

              Don’t be such an amateur.

            • Missy

               /  18th June 2016

              sorry, I was wrong, David Duncan received the Gallantry Decoration not the Gallantry Award.

              But still not the star.

              Just to help Halliver, check the GG Facebook page from a week or so ago…. you might find a post there to help you.

            • Missy

               /  18th June 2016

              Oh, and just to point out, no-one would have got the NZ Gallantry Star in WWII, it wasn’t around then, and only 3 soldiers have received it since it was instituted. It is NZ’s second highest award, second to the VC. Also, the VC wasn’t handed out that easily either.

              Don’t be so ignorant.

            • Halliver

               /  19th June 2016

              “VC wasn’t handed out that easily either.”

              well it is now, willie got a vc for what many NZ soldiers have done over the years, for carrying a comrade to safety. Where are there VC? you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

            • Missy

               /  19th June 2016

              Willie Apiata’s VC was for a bit more than that according to a guy who was there, but I haven’t read the citation.

              Since you seem to be having so much difficulty with the NZ Gallantry Star recipient Halliver (though seriously it is so easy), here is what I said about it last week after the investiture in Buckingham Palace:

              “This is not actually comment on something in NZ media, but rather something that should be.

              Today at Buckingham Palace a former New Zealand soldier was invested with the New Zealand Gallantry Star, this is the second in line behind the Victoria Cross and before today had only been awarded to two other people, so this is a very big deal. This was given by HRH prince of Wales.

              Here is a UK article about it.

              http://m.plymouthherald.co.uk/Devon-army-major-honoured-rare-bravery-award/story-29381865-detail/story.html

              So, as you see it wasn’t the guy you thought, and it is a very rare medal. He got it in South Sudan doing UN work – nothing to do with the US war propaganda.

              And just so you don’t get confused again the NZ Military Gallantry and Bravery awards are:

              Victoria Cross
              NZ Gallantry Star
              NZ Bravery Star
              NZ Gallantry Decoration
              NZ Bravery Decoration
              NZ Gallantry Medal
              NZ Bravery Medal

              The guy you think received the star actually received the NZ Gallantry Decoration, and MAJ Faraday received the NZ Gallantry Star.

              I understand how you could have been confused Halliver, and there is no harm in admitting you were wrong and didn’t know about the Gallantry Star, and the difference in the medals – it is the sign of a mature person that they can admit they were wrong about something, no-one will think less of you for it.

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