Snowden and the Russians

Edward Snowden appears to be more than a whistleblower. Spy and traitor are words that will no doubt be examined.

Posted at Kiwiblog but also of interest here: Kremlin admits Snowden gave them information

In a remarkable interview this week, Franz Klintsevich, a senior Russian security official, explained the case matter-of-factly: “Let’s be frank. Snowden did share intelligence. This is what security services do. If there’s a possibility to get information, they will get it.”

With this, Klintsevich simply said what all intelligence professionals already knew – that Snowden is a collaborator with the FSB. That he really had no choice in the matter once he set foot in Russia does not change the facts.

Klintsevich is no idle speculator. He is a senator who has served in the State Duma for nearly a decade. More importantly, he is the deputy chair of the senate’s defense and security committee, which oversees the special services. The 59-year-old Klintsevich thus has access to many state secrets – for instance regarding the Snowden case. …

His statement outing Snowden’s relationship with the Kremlin therefore cannot be an accident or a slip of the tongue. For whatever reason, Putin has decided to out Snowden as the collaborator that he actually is – and has been for three years already.

One reason for this may be Snowden’s recent tepid criticism via Twitter of Russia’s draconian new laws on domestic surveillance – which vastly exceed any of the activities of the Western democracies that Snowden has so strongly criticized from his FSB hideaway. Indeed, his hosts finally allowing their American collaborator to tweet negatively about Russia – many had noted Snowden’s silence on FSB repression and worse – may be a sign that the defector has outlived his usefulness.

In truth, Snowden was never all that well informed about American intelligence. Contrary to the myths that he and his mouthpieces have propagated, he was no more than an IT systems administrator. Snowden was never any sort of bona fide spy. There are no indications he really understands most of what he stole from NSA.

The FSB therefore milked Snowden of any valuable information rather quickly. He likely had little light to shed on the million-plus secret files he stole. Instead, his value to Moscow has been as a key player in Kremlin propaganda designed to discredit the Western intelligence alliance.

In that role, Snowden has done a great deal of damage to the West. But he was never a “mole” for Moscow inside NSA. In reality, the Snowden Operation is probably a cover to deflect attention from the one or more actual Russian moles who have been lurking inside NSA for years, undetected.

Based on the cases of previous Western intelligence defectors to Moscow, Edward Snowden faces an unhappy future. Whatever happens to him is up to his hosts, who control all aspects of any defector’s life. There no longer can be any honest debate about his relationship with the Kremlin, which has settled the matter once and for all. Putin and his special services consider Snowden to be nash – there is no question about that now.

David Farrar comments:

So Snowden stole information from the US, and has shared it with Russia. Can’t see him getting a pardon anytime soon. He should get used to living in Russia.

Many people won’t be particularly surprised by the gist of this, but it puts a different complexion on the whole issue.

Whistleblowers going to the media or publishing secrets online is one thing. Working with ‘the enemy’ or an opposition state is quite a different matter.

Leave a comment

44 Comments

  1. Missy

     /  5th July 2016

    The fact that the Kremlin releasing this information means that Snowden has either outlived his usefulness, or he has upset his hosts – possibly a combination of both.

    The Kremlin have ensured he can now never return to the US without being tried as a traitor, and therefore he is stuck in Russia, but as it appears his hosts are no longer happy with him I am not sure how comfortable that life will be now.

    As his passport has been cancelled there is only one place he can go, the US.

    You have to admire the Russians, they have played this well, and put Snowden in what may end up being an untenable position.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  5th July 2016

      The Russians—specifically Putin—are far more calculating and strategic than their “opponents”. Turkey, a Western ally, has been neutralised. Don’t know what’s going to happen to the Kurds’ dream of a homeland now. Israel, to maybe everyone’s surprise, has a rapproachment with Putin.

      In Syria, Putin, and Assad, are winning. The “ceasefire” has never been observed. There was IMO never any intention to do so. Kerry is still giving speeches explaining how peace is to be achieved when Russia finally wakes up and co-operates with the West to achieve regime change. There are no “moderate muslim” opposition parties. Many of them have been in and out of alliances with the Al-Qaeda eqivalent there. The kurds come closest to being friends with the West, but they’ll probably want their own state as payment. Iran & Hezbollah are co-operating with Putin/Assad.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  5th July 2016

        And Trump’s strategy for dealing with ISIS sounds remarkably like GW Bush’s. And look where that’s got them/the West/us?

        Reply
  2. Nelly Smickers

     /  5th July 2016

    Holy shit! Thought I recognized the name…….he started following me weeks ago!!

    Wayne said I need to block him immediately – just in case :/

    https://twitter.com/Snowden?lang=en

    Reply
  3. As usual the slanderous corporate apologists confuse “stole” with “copied”.

    The real enemy here is ignorance:

    Secret for over 40 years, Gladio is a NATO-backed network of armed soldiers inside the nations of Europe outside effective control of national governments. Ostensibly intended for use only in case of a Soviet invasion, Gladio carried out a string of false flag terror attacks. In 1990, the European parliament asked all member states to launch investigations, but only 5 national governments did so.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Operation_Gladio

    Reply
  4. Moscow (Pravda): American experts believe that despite the fact that relations between the US and Russia reached the worst point since the Cold War, Putin caused Obama only small troubles so far. Analysts believe that this “calm before the storm”. Putin is going to hit once, but he’s going to hit hard. Russia is preparing the release of evidence of the involvement of the US government and intelligence services in the September 11 attacks. In the list of evidence is included the satellite images from 9/11.

    Published material can prove the US Government complicity in the 9/11 attacks and the successful manipulation of public opinion. The attack was planned by the US government, but executed by using proxies, so that an attack on America and the people of the United States looked like an act of aggression of international terrorism.

    The motive for deception and murder its own citizens served US oil interests and the Middle Eastern state corporations.

    The evidence will be so convincing that it utterly debunks the official 9/11 cover story supported by the US government.

    Russia proves that America is no stranger to using false flag terrorism against its citizens in order to achieve a pretext for military intervention in foreign countries. In the case of “the September 11 attacks,” the evidence will be conclusive satellite imagery.

    http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=11352

    Reply
  5. Brown

     /  5th July 2016

    I don’t know if Snowden is as bad as stated or not but he doesn’t seem much different from the relationship the British govt had with the USSR post WW2. The quality of Soviet jet technology came as a nasty surprise to the US in Korea but they shouldn’t have been surprised because the Brits had given modern technology to their friends in the East. I guess its all about sharing and helping your enemies to create a level playing field.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  5th July 2016

      Do you think we should be involved in this war Brown. I’d really appreciate your opinion.

      Reply
      • Brown

         /  6th July 2016

        Which war? There are so many to chose from that I get confused.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  6th July 2016

          The one that started all the others in the Middle East, North Africa, Central Africa, Asia, Europe, USA, Britain, Australia—everywhere really—that have a religious component. Iraq.

          Reply
          • Brown

             /  6th July 2016

            I don’t think that started it really although it was a noticeable blip on the old and fragile existing landscape foolishly divided up post WW1. Anyway, I think no, we should abstain until we are prepared to name the enemy. The US is far too incompetent to be around at present no matter how much Key likes Obama and the TPP beckons.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  6th July 2016

              Agreed, my friend. Sadly, we are in the minority. I fear sooner or later we will bring one or more of people back in a body bag. For nothing.

            • Gezza

               /  6th July 2016

              * our

  6. duperez

     /  5th July 2016

    Methods, madness and manipulation.

    I have taken virtually no notice of Snowden and all the opinions about him.

    From the original Mary Louise Kelly article Farrar quoted which sees another little wave of hysteria and hanging ropes being thrown over boughs:

    KELLY: That’s Mark Galeotti, an authority on Russia spy agencies, also a professor at NYU. He believes Snowden has almost certainly shared what he knows – secrets about NSA operations – with his Russian hosts. I put this question to Frants Klintsevich. He’s the equivalent of a senator here in Russia and deputy chairman of the powerful defense and security committee.

    FRANTS KLINTSEVICH: (Speaking Russian).

    KELLY: “Let’s be frank,” he says. “Snowden did share intelligence. This is what security services do,” adds Klintsevich. “If there’s a possibility to get information, they will get it.” It’s a possibility that Snowden’s lawyer, Ben Wizner of the ACLU, denies.

    “He [Mark Galeotti, an authority on Russia spy agencies] believes.”
    Then Klintsevich, “Snowden did share intelligence. This is what security services do.”

    No agendas for any of those people, believe everything that is said, literally, read into it what you will and embellish and build it up into what you want to believe and what you want others to believe.

    Have you ever been to a press conference where the subject throws somethings out, morsels, knowing they will be, wanting those to be, construed, miscontrued, garnished and grown? You know the sort of Bill English, Nick Smith or John Key sorts of things which end up to be positive headlines for people like , say, David Farrar. 🙃

    Reply
    • Iceberg

       /  5th July 2016

      “read into it what you will and embellish and build it up into what you want to believe and what you want others to believe”

      You mean, like you just did?

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  5th July 2016

        Certainly. But what’s my agenda?

        Reply
        • Iceberg

           /  5th July 2016

          Bagging National and Farrar

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  5th July 2016

            No. The point was to suggest that some things should be read carefully and have questions asked of them before conclusions are jumped to and then used as bludgeons.

            Bagging Farrar only in the sense that maybe the question could be asked about whether his intent was what I just said. Pixilated propaganda reliant on no filters?

            Reply
            • Iceberg

               /  5th July 2016

              OMG, Farrar is biased???

            • duperez

               /  5th July 2016

              Of course it’s not about Farrar being biased. Bias is everywhere and expected and can be honest and reasonable. Some consider distortions and malevolence to be different.

  7. Jeeves

     /  5th July 2016

    I like Putin. He’s one of us.
    He makes good, honest sense about world geopolitics, about Russia’s place in it, about how they are again and again forced to react to Western interests stirring up the eastern pot.
    If I had to choose an ally, in the long term, it would be the Russians. They understand freedom and how it can be lived, as opposed to the US who understand freedom like ISIS understand allah u Akbar – a meaningless chant to be repeated ad nausea.

    US – the land of the free-
    where it is illegal for a woman to earn money having sex, unless she is 18 and someone is filming it , then you can beat and torture and degrade her, because she’s not a whore now, but an actress. But she can’t buy a beer, and she certainly can’t have an abortion.

    Where 1% of their male young population is incarcerated

    Where apparantly all life is sacred, unless it wanders on to your property then its just a target;

    Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  5th July 2016

      Lovely sentiments Jeeves. Yes Russia where a man is free. Free to drink himself to death as he contemplates life in his happy little socialist paradise and looks forward to reaching the grand old age of 65

      qz.com/403307/russia-is-quite-literally-drinking-itself-to-death/

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  5th July 2016

      Too true old chap. If only it was true. Just ask the neighbours ( what are also hard bastards)
      Personally I prefer mom and apple pie, minus the Russian Mafia who make the Italian mob look like Disney caricatures.

      Reply
  8. Iceberg

     /  5th July 2016

    “They understand freedom and how it can be lived”

    That’s probably the stupidist thing on the internet today.

    Reply
  9. Conspiratoor

     /  5th July 2016

    Jeeves speaks highly of Putin. He is not the lone ranger in this view. I would highly recommend ‘the man without a face’ as a revraling insight into the background of how an unassuming, incorruptible, lowly kgb operatchic suddenly found himself in charge of Russia. An extraordinary series of coincidences.

    Reply
    • Who is Jeeves?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  5th July 2016

        A secret Russian moll stationed at the ” River”

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  5th July 2016

        Cameron Slaters ghost writer Uggers. I thought this was common knowledge

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  5th July 2016

          How long before nige is back in the driver’s seat do you reckon c?

          Reply
          • Conspiratoor

             /  5th July 2016

            Have dusted off the crystal G and can report that after a respectable period his colleagues will plead the case whereupon his wife who is three times his size will put her big German hoof down and that my friend will be the last we see of nige

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  6th July 2016

              Yep. Don’t have to like everything about someone to respect them. He’s fought the good fight and not been scared to take the incoming. Time for the log fire fire, fishing rod & a good book.

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