Open Forum – Friday

8 July 2016

RomanForumPedestal400

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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36 Comments

  1. Missy

     /  8th July 2016

    Today’s update on the goings on in Westminster. It will be relatively short, as today there wasn’t a lot of movement on anything other than the Conservative Leadership Race.

    Brexit:
    Same old same old, I think some of the ‘activists’ protesting Brexit have moved on to Tony Blair and the Chilcot Report. No more information around the initial reporting on the legal challenge.

    Labour:
    This has stagnated. Those challenging Corbyn seem reluctant to actually make a move, Len McCluskey (Unite Union Boss) has been having one to one meetings with Corbyn and Tom Watson to try and come to a compromise, but nothing is moving as Corbyn stubbornly hangs on to leadership, and everyone around him tries to get him to go. It is reported that the MP’s would like him to resign gracefully, but that is looking less likely.

    Conservatives:
    So, it will be a woman, after today’s second MP vote it is down to Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom’s CV is coming under scrutiny as it is being revealed that she may have exaggerated some aspects of her career in the city, It is hard to know if this will impact her standing with the membership.

    There has been a lot of talk on twitter that the front runner with the MP’s has never won the leadership, however, some have pointed out that isn’t entirely correct as Cameron was second in the first round and topped the second round in the MP’s vote.

    Results from today: May 199, Leadsom 84, Gove 46.

    Yesterday Labour put a motion for EU migrants to have the right to remain in Britain regardless of what happens in the negotiations. This passed in the Commons. I personally think this is a stupid move, it weakens the UK in negotiating their exit, as the EU countries are safe knowing their citizens can remain in the UK, but they have not given the same assurance to UK citizens in the EU – and now don’t have to. This, in my opinion, is also a betrayal of UK citizens in Europe. The Commons have acted on public opinion and emotion, and not acted in the best interests of their citizens. Interestingly only Theresa May, out of the leadership candidates, was willing to make the decision to use right to remain as a negotiating tool, to try and get a reciprocal agreement for UK citizens in the EU.

    HeatSt, a right wing online media organisation, has published an article suggesting Boris was collateral damage in an attempt to neutralise (not literally) Andrea Leadsom. The article is here:

    http://heatst.com/uk/was-boris-stitched-up-in-a-plot-to-banish-andrea-leadsom/

    The membership will elect the new party leader on September 9.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  8th July 2016

      Here is the Telegraphs summary of Leadsom and May.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/conservative-leadership-election-runners-and-riders-for-the-tory2/

      I note May’s odds have slipped (I think that is right) as she is now at 1/5 – only a week ago she was 1/1.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  8th July 2016

      Ronya Missy. It’s a post already. If I have any comments I’ll make them there. 🙂

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  8th July 2016

        Ditto; it seems as if this issue is dominating YNZ, and if it has its own post, I see no need to have it here as well.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  8th July 2016

          Ever thought about writing a post yourself on anything Kitty? From some of your writings here that I’ve read from time to time you clearly have the skills.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  8th July 2016

            I can’t think of anything off-hand…

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  8th July 2016

              Then don’t make it off-hand. 🙂 Make it about something you’ve been thinking about, and know something about, that you’d maybe like to know what other people think about. If you’re not sure, you can email it to Pete and ask him what he thinks of it and whether it’s worth posting. Maybe be careful if it’s a contentious issue. But I think you’ve shown you have the guts to say what you think about things whatever other people might say.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  8th July 2016

              Kitty, you struggle financially while keeping true to your liberal principles. That is strikingly unusual. You could certainly write about it.

            • Gezza

               /  8th July 2016

              @ Alan … and believe it or not, you’ve certainly broadened my perspective on a number of issues on politics and economics and, well, life really. I’d love to see one from you.

            • Nelly Smickers

               /  8th July 2016

              Wayne has always had a real way with words. so I just suggested he might like to write a post on his own fave subject. But he said, “Nah, rather just leave that to you babe” ❤

            • Gezza

               /  8th July 2016

              Cool ! Will it have pictures & animated gifs n stuff? o_O

  2. Corky

     /  8th July 2016

    Heard this on the radio.

    Donald Trump: “He was a bad guy ( Saddam) — really bad guy. But you know what? He did well? He killed terrorists. He did that so good. They didn’t read them the rights.” Hopefully, Donald, the West will catch up with your blindingly obvious observation on how terrorism is to be tackled on the domestic front.

    The other was on ZB. They spliced Hillary rejecting allegations against her. That was followed by a commentator reading from the recently released FBI report.

    Example:

    Clinton: I only ever used one device.
    Commentator: It was found multiple devices had been used.

    And on it went…lie after lie after lie. ThIs women is as suss as a 3 dollar bill.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  8th July 2016

      Gave you an uptick, mainly for the comment on Hillary, That’s interesting.

      Re Trump,unfortunately, Saddam also killed a lot of people who weren’t terrorists, just people who opposed his dictatorial rule and the cruelty of his sons and henchmen. He wasn’t that much of a muslim himself, but he may have helped create a few muslim terrorists. In the early stages of the post-invasion occupation ‘insurgents’ seemed to be mainly motivated by wanting to fight foreign invaders & their corrupt cronies who were installed and are now sitting protected in the Green Zone while Baghdad goes to hell.

      That outcome was predicable. Saddam was helped to stay in power by the US providing support during his war against Iran, I could be mistaken, but from what I read some time ago it seems he got mixed messages & was shocked to find the West objected to his taking Kuwaiti oilfields. After that his dictatorial personality made him too stupid to see they would bash the shit out of him to get it back under their control.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  8th July 2016

        “Re Trump,unfortunately, Saddam also killed a lot of people who weren’t terrorists, just people who opposed his dictatorial rule and the cruelty of his sons and henchmen”

        Quite true. He went after a colleague who got a question about cricket wrong.. The guy was too quick for Saddam. He was across the border with the whanau within an hour. Pays to know your friends as well as your enemies.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  8th July 2016

          There were serious suggestions being made—after his army was thrown out of Kuwait & his retreating troops set (I think it was hundreds) all their oil wells & installations on fire—that the victorious allied forces should have pursued them all the way to Baghdad and deposed him.

          But, if remember right, that was a UN Security Council-authorised international military campaign mounted solely to rescue and protect the people of Kuwait, and to punish & repel an invader who had waged unprovoked aggressive war by invading another country which it was not in any imminent danger from, and who refused a UN ultimatum to leave or face the consequences. That was as far as the legal UN mandate went, and everybody respected it.

          The Chilcott Report makes clear that later, some of them, decided not to worry about such niceties, and to go in there anyway, followed by US Oil interests, Halliburton, and other corporations like security companies who expected massive profits from the invasion and the rebuild.

          I remember some charred bodies of private security officers being hung up on a bridge somewhere, I think it was near Fallujah. So it didn’t work out well for those guys, although I’m sure it did for their employers, once compensation for their deaths was sorted out with their families.

          I don’t know how many of these US corporations/companies are still involved in Iraq, but if any are, the government and civil authorities installed by the occupation forces, (and largely probably reinstalled by their elections) and their military, and maybe some militias, are all reportedly so completely corrupt, the corporations & companies are quite possibly still sharing a tiny portion of any massive profits they make with them.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  8th July 2016

            These crassly ignorant remarks-and his showing that he doesn’t know the difference between an adjective and an adverb-should make shivers go down spines. No need for cissy old ‘rights’; just shoot. Might is right.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  8th July 2016

              You’re replying to my comment. Are you talking about … me? o_O
              I know I do make a few typos and other errors from time to time.

            • Blazer

               /  8th July 2016

              bit drastic there Kitty,pay the ultimate price for bad grammar!

  3. Zedd

     /  8th July 2016

    Another white cop shoots a black guy in USA.. sparking more talk of a possible ‘race war’ OR are cops ‘judge, jury & executioner !’ ??

    I for one, am happy that our front-line cops are not all armed 😦

    Reply
    • Klik Bate

       /  8th July 2016

      In the case of the shooting of Alton Sterling in Louisiana on Wednesday, you could understand if the cops were acting as ‘judge, jury & executioner’

      Alton Sterling has a rap sheet as long as your arm. Bloods gang member, convicted pedophile, and registered sex offender. He has been arrested10 times for drugs, weapons, and assault.

      Sterling never gave a shit about anyone’s life, why should anybody give a shit about his?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  8th July 2016

        Interesting. Source?

        Reply
        • Klik Bate

           /  8th July 2016
          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  8th July 2016

            One relationship-he was dating the girl, not that that makes it all right, no matter how willing a partner she was-doesn’t make someone a paedophile.She wasn’t a child, but he should, of course, have known better. And too bad if the teenager’s a willing partner, the adult is still a sex offender-in that one case.

            Past convictions don’t make it acceptable to shoot someone who’s not doing anything. The article made it sound at first as if he’d been in gun battles with the police, which wasn’t the case.

            If the police are to have open season on anyone with previous convictions, that would make the US a very dangerous place to live. He was selling CDs, which may not have been legal (we don’t know, of course, if a hawker’s license was needed) but would hardly be grounds for giving someone the death penalty. What if he had just happened to look like someone with form ? Too late when he’s been shot dead-oopsie, wrong man. Bugger. A friend’s ex-husband, a Dutchman, is almost the double of a South African man here who has all sorts of form. I am not a great fan of the ex, but I’d hate to see him shot dead for selling CDs without a license.

            Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  8th July 2016

        You make him sound like a serial killer or mass murderer. Klick. The video showed someone who couldn’t understand what he’d done to invoke this treatment, who was flung down and knelt over by a cop and shot dead-the only signs of ‘resistance’ were the instinctive movements of anyone who’s about to be shot dead for no reason.

        There can never be a case for the police to decide who’s worthy to live. They enforce the law, they don’t make it. Would you like to see courts and the rest done away with and the police acting as executioners, deciding who is worthy to live and who isn’t ? How to make sure that decent people don’t join the police force.

        Reply
        • Klik Bate

           /  8th July 2016

          Did you even bother to read his Rap sheet and criminal history Kitty? I suspect not.

          And if you did, it’s then hard to believe that you would not come to the same conclusion as the vast majority of most other sane thinking and concerned citizens – that the world is an infinitely better place without scum like that.

          Have a good night.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  11th July 2016

            I did read it. I commented upon it, which you failed to notice. I didn’t repeat it, anyone that interested can look it up.

            You assume that everyone who thinks as you do is sane and concerned. Sane and concerned people don’t see murder as acceptable, and nothing that this man had done would have earned the death penalty. It’s not up to a policeman to decide that the world would be a better place without someone, so it’s all right to kill them. If you had a gun, would you decide that it was all right to murder people because, in your opinion, their past made them unfit to live ? How would you decide this ? I have a friend who did time for bank robbery. He is now a great citizen and a contributor to society. Among other things, he spends time removing and painting out tagging locally. No doubt to a ‘sane thinking and concerned citizen’ his unsavoury past would mean that the world would be a better place without him..

            At the time of his killing, the ‘scum’ was selling CDs in a car park. I am insane and unconcerned enough not to think that this justified killing him.

            Reply
      • “Sterling never gave a shit about anyone’s life, why should anybody give a shit about his?”

        Because of due process.

        Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  8th July 2016
    Reply
  5. pickled possum

     /  9th July 2016

    During Labour
    the pain is so
    great that a
    woman …
    can almost
    imagine what a
    man feels like
    when he has a cold.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  9th July 2016

      XD XD XD XD XD

      Tena koe, Possum

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  11th July 2016

        Labour pains must be not too bad, then-not what i have heard.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  11th July 2016

          🐱 :/

          Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  11th July 2016

          Men are far more likely than women to be staunch, ignore things and not go to the doctor. Men are applauded when they play sports like rugby that frequently lead to injury. Boxers (and before them, prize-fighters) are applauded for a gladiator style sport that sees them being knocked out. Men are forced to go to war and suffer wounds whose pain would leave labour pains standing. Then they are rewarded by being called heroes and, if they are killed, having their names put on a memorial. Some recompense. I have read a first-hand account of a gas attack in WWI.

          Don’t talk to me about men regarding colds as agony. This is arrant sexism. Read a few books about the two world wars-or any war in which men have been wounded and killed-and then see if you think that men make more of a fuss than women.

          See how much is spent on prostate cancer as opposed to breast cancer.

          Whose life-expectancy is the longer of the two ? No surprises there, it’s women.

          Reply

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