Not nice in Nice

A horrible attack by heavy vehicle in Nice, France today, the murder of about 80 innocent people.

It is particularly awful for those closely involved, the victims and their families and friends, and those who witnessed the monstrous attack.

It is also awful for the city of Nice, and for France who again is the target of what appears to be a terrorist attack.

This is also having a chilling effect in different ways around the world, but I’ll leave that for another day.

For now I’ll just reflect on how badly some people choose to act disgracefully and inhumanely towards other people.

No nice at all today in Nice.

Leave a comment

95 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th July 2016

    Stayed a couple of blocks away a few years ago. Bringing such misery to a happy place is just pure evil and a desecration of everything human intellect and emotion has created.

    Reply
    • Humanism isn’t a positive ideology in the “civilized” West vs “barbaric” Islam endgame, it serves the same interests as the conflict does.

      Reply
  2. patupaiarehe

     /  15th July 2016

    For now I’ll just reflect on how badly some people choose to act disgracefully and inhumanely towards other people.

    A very small minority, who adhere to a very extremist interpretation of the quran, appear to be responsible. As terrible as it is, blaming all Muslims for this atrocity only aids the terrorists. The driver of that truck was solely responsible for the chaos he created, and has got exactly what he deserved. If people are going to start burning Mosques, and beating up random Muslims because of what he did, those people are just as guilty as he was.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  15th July 2016

      Can you shoot over to bottom of today’s Social Chat page pp?

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  15th July 2016

      I heard that he wasn’t wanted for terrorism. Thank goodness someone sees sense; it’s crazy and stupid to blame all Muslims for such things.It’s like blaming all Catholics for the IRA actions. Or all Norwegians for the horrible massacre there. Or all Baptists for the disgusting behaviour of the Westboro lot.

      It’s a pity that he was shot dead, though, as now we will never know why he did it.

      Reply
      • Brown

         /  15th July 2016

        He did it because he’s a Muslim and takes the writings seriously. It may be strange to you but that’s just how they have been for 1400 years. The nominal Muslims don’t matter in this because we cannot tell them apart and they don’t routinely rat on the nasty types.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  15th July 2016

          Do you do everything that the Bible commands you to do, like stoning disobedient sons at the city gates ?

          Reply
          • David

             /  15th July 2016

            “Do you do everything that the Bible commands you to do, like stoning disobedient sons at the city gates ?’

            When was the last time a christian stoned someone to death, or threw a gay off the top of a high rise?

            Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  15th July 2016

          You must be very stupid if you can’t tell the difference between nominal, moderate and fanatical members of a religion. Would you be surprised if people thought that you were a nutter like the Waco people or Westboro Baptists, or were money-mad and grasping like the Tamaki clan ? Yet you and they would all declare Christian beliefs.

          Reply
          • Brown

             /  16th July 2016

            They can call themselves Christian but the Bible doesn’t support what they do and orthodox Christians will point that out. The Quran does support what the Muslims do. When you get that clear in your head everything fits.

            Reply
      • Gezza

         /  15th July 2016

        It’s a pity that he was shot dead, though, as now we will never know why he did it.
        Won’t probably take that long. Usually there’s internet records, stuff at home, people who kind of wondered about him … that sort of thing.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  15th July 2016

          The police don’t seem to have anything like that, if what we read is true-and surely they would have. I suppose that we can’t really speculate, it’s pointless.

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  15th July 2016

      How far into the Quran are you so far from that link I gave you a week or two back pp?

      Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  15th July 2016

        Had a bit of a look, and thought it wasn’t really worth any further effort. A few interesting stories, but IMHO as much of a work of fiction as the old testament, the new one, or the book of mormon.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  15th July 2016

          I’m sorry bro but unless you read it right through – I don’t think you can assume you know what Muslims believe.

          Reply
          • Nelly Smickers

             /  15th July 2016

            I’m also a bit like pp to be honest. I did try reading parts of the Quran a while back, but found I just couldn’t get inspired…..probaly my strict Catholic upbringing. What I did discover in my search for knowledge was this website…

            http://www.barenakedislam.com/

            You can quickly bring yourself up to speed with what’s going on in the world of Mozzies every day if you want.

            Reply
            • patupaiarehe

               /  15th July 2016

              Even if you agree with propaganda Nelly, it is still just that

        • patupaiarehe

           /  15th July 2016

          I think that to get an informed perspective on it, I would have to speak with a Muslim in person. The only one I know has a very thick accent, and his English isn’t too flash, so is not much help really 😉

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  15th July 2016

          That’s only going to give you his perspective on it. I saw Sadiq Khan, the new Mayor of London, interviewed on Al Jazeera immediately after the Brexit decision. He was saying his primary concern was to ensure that The City, the financial district, kept functioning & didn’t lose money – the message he wanted to get out was that London was open for business.

          What he believed as a Muslim came up coincidentally, He said, very clearly, that he could speak for himself as to what he understood Islam to be all about, but he couldn’t speak for his parents, nor for any other Muslim.

          The Quran, & belief in the nonsense contained in it that rules for pretty much everything were passed from Allah, the creator, to the perfect man, Allah’s Messenger, Muhammad, by the angel Gabriel is central to what Muslims are supposed to believe. Hearsay from one, has no bearing on the opinion of another in the totality of their belief.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  15th July 2016

          Come on mate. Be honest. It’s a turgid, repetitive, load of bollocks that nobody but the most determined scholar or ignorant peasant would even want to try & struggle through. Isn’t it? It can be done but it damn near does yer head in & at the end of it you struggle to remember where any of it even is.

          Reply
          • patupaiarehe

             /  15th July 2016

            He said, very clearly, that he could speak for himself as to what he understood Islam to be all about, but he couldn’t speak for his parents, nor for any other Muslim.

            Sounds like an honest account to me G

            It’s a turgid, repetitive, load of bollocks that nobody but the most determined scholar or ignorant peasant would even want to try & struggle through.

            Look back at my earlier comment, I think I said that already, in not as many words.
            I think we should imprison all Christians, because some of them have bombed abortion clinics. Well I don’t think that, but do you understand why I would say that???

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            Fair enuff. It’ll take you a bit of time but it’s do-able. Don’t try & do it tonite I’m really looking forward to a music nite e hoa.

            Go find out and tot up the numbers of people killed by Christian terrorists around the world over, say, the last 20 years, and then the numbers killed by Muslim terrorists over the last 20 years – there’s a page on Wikipedia somewhere that lists all of those I think. I did it some time ago but I didn’t keep the numbers & I’m not going off to do it now.

            But you’ll be amazed at the ratio – I can tell you that now.

            Reply
            • patupaiarehe

               /  15th July 2016

              I bet I wouldn’t be. I do follow the news G. Muslim extremism is obviously a real problem, but if we are going to hold all members of a certain religion responsible for the misdeeds of a few, we should just build a time machine, go back seventy years or so, and tell Hitler he was right.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th July 2016

              Not a matter of holding all members responsible, but it is a matter of recognising where risk and threats almost certainly lie and doing something about it. The debate is only about how to do it with greatest efficiency and accuracy.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  15th July 2016

              Exactly Alan. With accuracy

          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            And the other thing to do when you’re getting the numbers is to keep a separate running total of the numbers for each which were suicide attacks;

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  15th July 2016

              The Islamic extremism genie is out of the bottle, patupaiarahe.

              For the reasons set out in my guest post, and the comments in that – it ain’t going back in, and anyone who thinks so, is dreaming.

            • But what do you think might work best, ostracising, attacking and trying to contain 50,000 people, or ostracising, attacking and trying to contain 1,500,000,000 people?

            • patupaiarehe

               /  15th July 2016

              Judging by the comments on here, the extremists are achieving exactly the result they wanted…..

            • Gezza

               /  15th July 2016

              Here, in a nutshell, is the problem with the clash of Western & Muslim freedoms:
              https://yournz.org/2016/07/14/i-am-a-muslim-so-that-makes-me/#comment-116975

            • patupaiarehe

               /  15th July 2016

              Yes G, I saw that yesterday.

    • Corky

       /  15th July 2016

      So all those people who filled streets across the Muslim world when news of 9/11 broke, are what? Why they are the secret millions od Muslims,whom don’t cause trouble. but secretly support such actions against the West. Such Muslims only show their true colours when there is a large enough Muslim population to shield them. You sound like Hilary Clinton who has called on security forces to better coordinate their activities. That against a backdrop of Muslims entering America. Unbelievably dumb, but typical of people who believe the world thinks like us.

      Reply
  3. Conspiratoor

     /  15th July 2016

    Not Nice? A fart that lingers long after the offender has left the scene is ‘not nice’. A three day old dead rat behind the fridge is ‘not nice’. This is not ‘not nice’. This is a massacre of innocents driven by a depraved ideology. A call to action. A defining moment in the war on islamic terror.

    Eventually the tolerance shown towards this ideology today is going to morph into a deeper mistrust, and then hatred.

    I saw this elsewhere today. From Kipling. It is worth reposting here…

    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late,
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    They were not easily moved,
    They were icy — willing to wait
    Till every count should be proved,
    Ere the Saxon began to hate.

    Their voices were even and low.
    Their eyes were level and straight.
    There was neither sign nor show
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not preached to the crowd.
    It was not taught by the state.
    No man spoke it aloud
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not suddenly bred.
    It will not swiftly abate.
    Through the chilled years ahead,
    When Time shall count from the date
    That the Saxon began to hate

    Reply
    • “A call to action. A defining moment in the war on islamic terror. ”

      That may well be what the perpetrator of this atrocity wanted to precipitate. So the world would do well to pause to consider things carefully rather than rushing to a response that may escalate things.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th July 2016

        I agree that ‘not nice’ is totally inappropriate to describe something like this. The nice/Nice play on words is ancient, and to describe the deaths of so many people as ‘not nice’ trivialises the horror of it.

        Reply
        • It’s better than the “Nice attack” headlines.

          And with something like this I think the facts of the attack speak for themselves and everyone is capable of applying their own descriptions.

          I find it difficult to express strongly enough what I think.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            I think you deserve the right to neutrality on this issue PG, as the blog moderator and operator.

            Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  15th July 2016

        ‘a response that may escalate things’

        I’m sure you have noticed pg but ‘things’ have actually escalated of late. What would you propose to de-escalate ‘things’? We head off to the middle east to talk to them? I’m interested in your solution to this.

        Reply
      • Indeed Pete. A calm head required…. but that will be hard for the families of those killed like sheep to the salughter while celebrating their national day

        And if it kicks off, a major fightback and retaliation, it won’t end well for the followers of Muhamed.

        The question is Pete…. why are extreme fanatics like this not turned in by the “peaceful” muslims? Why are the next tier up and the one behind that, all the way up to the headmen in country in a place like France allowed by their fellow believers to swim among them undetected, when the peaceful majority well know who the the fanatics are?

        They can’t all be afraid… many of the supposed peaceful majority quietly applaud this stuff….

        I don’t know the answer… but I do know Islam as a politico-religious philosophy and Western values and mores are just totally incompatible. Frankly we should be seriously considering complete disengagement from the Muslim world, stay well out of the Middle East and if this shit continues take extreme punitive action including deporting any non native muslims back to their home countries. That is harsh – but the west needs to look after its own..

        Reply
        • “The question is Pete…. why are extreme fanatics like this not turned in by the “peaceful” muslims? ”

          Think that one through and then tell me how you expect them to do that.

          There’s a growing risk that most Muslims, and most of the rest of us, could be the meat in a macho sandwich. There could be a lot of collateral damage if this escalates. And it might not be confined to the other side of the world going by comments elsewhere on New Zealand sites.

          Reply
          • Mate I have thought that one through. It doesn’t need to be a public calling out. A quiet anonymous tip.

            You haven’t address the other thing I said regarding the fact a big chunk of Muslims, as measured by various pew research research, quiet support the spread of shariah to the West.

            Islam and Western values are not a happy match. Haven’t been since the start of Islams expansion out of Arabia…

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th July 2016

              Members of the IRA plant a bomb.

              Irish Catholics at the other end of the country-or the world-who don’t even know who they are,can’t be blamed for not turning them in with ‘a quiet anonymous tip’. Be realistic.

              Nice attack could only be an attack ON Nice, not a ‘nice’ attack, surely.

            • If Roman Catholics had a visible minority calling for death/destruction and seemingly peaceful Roman Catholics responded and carried out random terror attacks…. would you ask questions about why no one dobbed them in from the Roman Catholic community?

              This isn’t the IRA. This isn’t about a discrete politic goal – unified Ireland in your example.

              This is about 2 world views that are incompatible clashing, and one of the world views is inviting the other to colonise its territory.

              I am happy to agree with get out of the Middle East and leave their political economies alone.

              But this shit has been escalating since 2001 and it won’t stop because people say its not all Muslims. Muslims need to fix it inside their communities – because our Western governments aren’t sorting it out.

              If neither do fix it, then populist politicians will take advantage and blood will flood. That is the lesson of history Kitty as I am sure you are aware…

            • Blazer

               /  15th July 2016

              you have no idea what you are talking about,your head must be a sponge that soaks up neo liberal propaganda.Wake up…and learn about history and empire.

            • Gezza

               /  15th July 2016

              You’ve got the same position on this as me I think dave.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th July 2016

              Oh, don’t be silly, all of you. My point was that there’s no sense in expecting someone who doesn’t know something to tell about what they don’t know.

              Something can’t be both discrete and unified, the two words have opposite meanings. The case for a united Ireland has never been discreet, either, if that’s what you mean by discrete.

              In the case of the IRA, there were smaller numbers because of the smaller population, but they were quite ready to use mass murder of people who had nothing to do with the cause-so my analogy wasn’t as foolish as you are attempting to make out.

              I can assure you that I do know about history. You ought to see the number of books on the subject in this house. More, I’d venture to guess, than any of you have.

            • The IRA had a single goal Kitty – a unified Ireland. Happy now?

              I’ll say it again. The fanatics inside Islam aren’t a few – they are a sizeable number and a far great number of the Ummah support the fanatics goals they just don’t trumpet it.

              This is a problem for Muslims to fix. If the Quote Peaceful Majority of Muslims Unquote actually said no this will no longer happen the problem of terrorist attacks in Europe would be fixed…… I don’t see them taking that risk – do you Kitty?

              Get the West out of the Middle East – and then see if it stops. But I bet it won’t.

              I don’t own books Kitty – I borrow them fom libraries and friends, read them and return them. trying to claim some type of intellecutal superiority because you have a big library is a bit naff…

              But back to the point comparing the IRA and its political objective with Jihadis overt politico-religious objective doesn’t wash. Jihadis are not rational and won’t stop because death delivers to them a reward, in their belief system. The IRA ultimately turned out to be rational and accepted a peace treaty went violence didn’t achieve their goal…. similar but not the same. The IRA were not warriors for God – that was a sidebar to the whole thing. The IRA we terrorists pursuing a political goal

            • Gezza

               /  15th July 2016

              Kitty never make the mistake of assuming, in this day of the internet, that people don’t know much about History. In fact you can probably find a heck of a lot more of any kind of history you want to think of online now than you realise. And it’s linked to countless documentaries and videos which cover even more ground. The problem with history books is so many of them are out of date in 10 years or less now.

        • Conspiratoor

           /  15th July 2016

          What about the oil Dave?

          Reply
          • The Middle Easts oil? Given the shale resources of the US, the Oil&Gas that can be traded for with South America, Africa and the resources of Australia do we really need it?

            Add in new energy technologies and refinements – I think the Middle East becomes irrelevant over time say 10-15 years

            And if that causes a spike in price levels in the West as long as it doesn’t get out of control that would not be a bad thing given the current moribund economic growth we currently have

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            If we want to buy it c, they’ll sell it to us – what we need to do is recognise that the West should never have invaded either Afghanistan or Iraq – that, plus before that, Sykes-Picot and Big Oil – caused all this shit.

            Reply
  4. Kitty Catkin

     /  15th July 2016

    The Marseillaise must be the oddest national anthem ever, with its calls to bloodshed.

    Come, children of the fatherland/The day of glory has arrived/Against us of the tyranny/The blood-stained standard has risen/To arms, citizens ! Form your battalions !/How an impure blood soils our pikes.’

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  15th July 2016

      Furrows, not pikes. I always translate that wrong.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  15th July 2016

      Wouldn’t be too keen to fight with them on their soil in case they surrendered on you & left you stuck across the ditch needing yachts and launches to take you back to the UK before the hun arrived at your dugout.

      Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  15th July 2016

        Beautiful G. Cheese eating surrender monkeys. Must away, got a farce to watch.
        Je m’en vais

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  15th July 2016

          Au revoir, mon ami.

          Reply
        • Blazer

           /  15th July 2016

          quoting fatboy now.Get a mind of your own.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            WTF are you raving on about now?

            Reply
            • Don’t bother engaging him/her/it Gezza….. complete waste of space which is descending daily to new depths of rambling incoherence, bluster and insult….. [he/she/it is referring to Mr Slater and his descriptors of the French]

            • Gezza

               /  15th July 2016

              I know – been watching for a while now. Just here to disrupt. Nothing ever more than slogans, Incapable of actually articulating anything worth reading, Personality of some snotty nosed bitchy schoolgirl. Late nite tick-sniper last nite too – spotted it last nite pop in & out to post a nasty to kitty, then this:
              https://yournz.org/2016/07/14/missy-rather-quiet-today/#comment-117118

              Just probably going to ignore it ignore it now dave.

            • Gezza

               /  15th July 2016

              😀

          • Conspiratoor

             /  15th July 2016

            I believe it was an American general in WWII who first coined the term but you are correct burning man i heard it first from my good friend Cameron. Cheers, c

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            😀

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  15th July 2016

              Soz – should’ve been the one above you. :/

    • Corky

       /  15th July 2016

      What the hell is your point, Kitty?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th July 2016

        My point is what I said-that their national anthem calls for bloodshed-and clebrates the Reign of Terror. What don’t you understand about that ? It’s not exactly breaking news or a well-hidden secret. .

        Bastille Day is celebrating the beginning of an era of mass killings, but nobody seems to think that this is a justification for someone now doing a mass killing. I wonder how people would feel about a Muslim country doing the same thing-I bet that then it wouldn’t be perceived as being long-gone history.

        Do you not think that a national anthem and national day that celebrate the bloodiest era in France’s history when thousands of people were killed are a little odd ? Oh well, never mind.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  15th July 2016

          So in actual fact you have no point germane to this topic? Yes or No?

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  15th July 2016

            Here’s something germane to the above. France has had fair warning of what would eventually come. Hard to believe this is happening in a fist world country…or to be more specific, an ex first world country. Notice the old Frenchman say even non-Muslims in certain areas are pressured not to eat pork.

            But you know what I find most offensive? You call me a racist. I say better that than being called a fool.

            Reply
  5. Brown

     /  15th July 2016

    “I find it difficult to express strongly enough what I think.”

    That’s just spiffing Pete. You should pop down the road for a kebab to show solidarity with Muslims who are worried that people may start asking what’s with that Quran that says this is acceptable behaviour.

    Reply
    • You should not try to tell me what to do, nor should you make crappy insinuations. I don’t think food vendors in New Zealand have anything to do with what happened in France and it’s more than crappy to try and associate anyone here with it.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th July 2016

        The Bible advocates mass murder, Brown. Should people be worried around church op-shops ? Should I have run screaming out the back door on Tuesday when a clergyman and his wife came to the front door ? Should people who come here and see all the ikons race out again in case I am so under the influence of my late husband, an Eastern Orthodox, that I will leap on them and try to kill them ?

        Reply
        • Do you think that the flood was an act of mass murder?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            Not at my place. I just left the tap running & forgot about it. Just needed a few towels & it was sorted. Bit of hall carpet got soaked but dry in a day.

            Reply
        • Brown

           /  16th July 2016

          Bollocks KC. I’m so sick of this rubbish. We know that we have nothing to fear from local Chuches of attendees.

          Reply
  6. Blazer

     /  15th July 2016

    what evidence is there that the perp is
    1…a muslim
    2…not just a lone wolf crazy

    Reply
  7. The driver of the truck was shot dead by police. Investigators are trying to determine if he had accomplices. The incident is being treated as a terrorist attack, but no group has claimed responsibility.

    French media reported that the killer was known to police but for petty crime, not terrorism. A police source told Reuters that the driver was was a 31-year-old Franco-Tunisian born in Tunisia.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/14/nice-bastille-day-france-attack-promenade-des-anglais-vehicle

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  15th July 2016

      I’ll catch up on the latest on Al Jazeera News @ 1 am. They’ll be pretty comprehensive I expect. If I can stay awake.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  15th July 2016

        Do you ever get nauseous after watching AJ, then switching to our news media? I keep thinking of the elderly without a computer who probably think our news is as it is around the world. The reality is relying on our media makes you woefully under informed.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  15th July 2016

          Absolutely Corky – I watch One News to see what made it onto the 1st 2 segments. My News IS Al Jazeera – every 2-3 hours if I’m home – just runs in the background in the lounge. With AJ I guess around half of what’s officially news of the world – is news of the world. Our telly news is a farkin embarrassment to the max once you’ve watched that channel for half a day. It’s full of kiwis apparently.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th July 2016

            Bugger – should’ve said: “With AJ I guess around half of what’s NOT officially news of the world – IS (still) news of the world.”

            (Listening to music vids @ same time as posting not always good idea)

            Reply
  8. patupaiarehe

     /  16th July 2016

    Reply

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