Attack in Munich

Several days after an attack in a train in Bavaria that injured several people before the attacker was shot dead there is news of a shooting in a shopping mall in Munich.

Spiegel Online: Tote in München – Polizei spricht von Terrorverdacht

Die Welt: München ruft “Sonderfall” wegen einer “Amoklage” aus

CNN: Munich shooting: Police operation underway, report says several killed at mall

A police operation is underway after gunfire erupted at a shopping center in Munich Friday. CNN affiliate NTV reports several are dead and others are wounded. Authorities shut down public transportation and warned people to stay home or seek protection.

Here’s what we know so far:

  • At least one shooter is still on the loose after a shooting inside a McDonald’s across from the Olympia shopping mall, police spokeswoman Claudia Küntzel said. “There could be several dead and one or even several shooters are on the loose,” Küntzel said. The shooting at the McDonald’s happened around 5:50 p.m. (11:50 a.m. ET), she said. It’s unclear whether shootings have occurred at other locations, and whether the gunfire has stopped.
  • Gunfire also broke out inside the mall, witnesses said.
  • On Facebook, police said gunfire was reported in several locations, and that witnesses report seeing three different people with firearms.
  • “At the moment, we have not been able to arrest any perpetrators. The manhunt is underway at high speed,” police said. “Because of the unclear situation we ask all people in the city area to stay at home or to look for protection in any nearby building. The operation of public transportation service has been stopped.”

Guardian: Munich shooting: at least three people killed – live updates

  • German interior ministry confirms three deaths
  • Witnesses report three gunmen in area around shopping centre
  • Authorities declare emergency and advise residents not to leave home

What I don’t know and I don’t know if anyone knows is whether the recent attacks in Nice, Wurzburg and now Munich have any connection as some sort of campaign, or whether they are a spate of individual attacks with one perhaps precipitating the next independently.

Newstalk ZB seem to be overhyping their headlines: Many killed in Munich shopping mall shooting

But: “German NTV is reporting the Bavarian interior ministry has confirmed three people have died in the shooting” and “German NTV is reporting the Bavarian interior ministry has confirmed three people have died in the shooting”.

Guardian updates:

Six dead, German police say
German police confirm that there was a shooting in Hanauer Street, adjacent to the shopping centre. Six people have been killed and an unknown number injured.

Police are now saying that there are nine people are dead. They do not know at this stage – and are checking – whether the additional person is one of the gunmen.

Asked if this was a terror attack, a police spokesman said: “If a man with a long gun in a shopping centre opens fire and eight people are dead, we have to work on the assumption that this was not a normal crime and was a terrorist act.”

He confirmed that the police were looking for three perpetrators and said officers were getting support from elite units but have not found any weapons.

Another death confirmed but a suggestion it could be an attacker.

There are now unconfirmed reports in local media that about 20 people are injured; some of them very gravely. Earlier, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German foreign minister, said that local authorities were doing all the could to save lives.

Guardian: Here’s where things stand at 3:30am GMT

Nine people were shot and killed, and a further 21 injured, in an attack at a shopping center in Munich on Friday evening
Despite early reports of multiple attackers, there was only one gunman, whom police identified as an 18-year-old with dual German and Iranian citizenship.
The gunman shot himself, bringing the death toll to ten
His motive is still “fully unknown”, the chief of Munich police told a press conference in the early hours of Saturday morning
Sixteen people remain in hospital, police said, three of whom are in “serious” condition

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57 Comments

  1. Gee i wonder how isis terrorists could posssibly have got into Germany?

    Reply
    • With open borders in the EU there are many ways that could happen.

      Reply
    • Kevin

       /  23rd July 2016

      I’m looking for the words “Islamist”, “ISIS”, “terrorists” in any of the reports. Nope, can’t find any of them. Just another attack by lone wolves.

      Reply
      • Currently “no information about motives or perpetrators”. It’s unwise to jump to conclusions.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  23rd July 2016

          Al Jazeera live Breaking News: Obama at a Press Conference is offering US assistance to the German Authorities. Commentator in the US being interviewed advises this could mean things like personnel from ATF, services of the NSA “which as you know has extensive capability for monitoring electronic communications, which may be useful identifying any cellphone communications between the men, for example” …

          Reply
        • Kevin

           /  23rd July 2016

          They had guns. They attacked a crowd of people. Every other very recent attack of that kind in Europe has been committed by Islamists with possible connections to ISIS. What else are we supposed to think?

          Reply
          • I’d hope you could have an open mind until facts become known.

            There are unconfirmed reports that it could be an anti-foreigner attack.

            Reply
            • MaureenW

               /  23rd July 2016

              Sounds odd that an “anti foreigner” attack would target a shopping mall.

            • Gezza

               /  23rd July 2016

              AJ has just shown footage of one of the shooters on a roof – apparently has been shouting that he’s German (they suggest possibly to cause confusion) & whatever he’s yelling out apparently it includes a lot of expletives …

              Special Police Forces have arrived.
              9:11 am

            • Gezza

               /  23rd July 2016

              Has anyone from here made any comments yet Pete:
              Al-Huda mosque, Dunedin

            • What’s the relevance of that? I don’t monitor all people and groups in the world.

            • Gezza

               /  23rd July 2016

              Just curious. Thought the Imam might be horrified & have rushed to express the view in the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful, on how un-Islamic this sort of thing is.

            • I don’t see how he could have any responsibility for an attack in Germany and where the identity and motivation of the attacker or attackers remains unknown.

            • Gezza

               /  23rd July 2016

              No I’m sure he doesn’t, but I just thort he might have wanted to be as keen as possible to put kiwis’ minds @ ease that this sort of thing couldn’t happen here because we don’t have any troops supporting the US to help train Shiite army recruits to kill Sunni Muslim fundamentalist terrorists in the Middle East.
              Oh … wait …

            • I think that singling out one person is quite unfair, especially as details are currently scant but I have never seen you demand anything similar of a Christian or an atheist or a Hindhu when they don’t have any responsibility for the actions of everyone who might share similar beliefs.

            • I didn’t see you ask that local police bosses rushed to express the view law enforcement officers on how un-professional shooting people lying in the ground with their hands up is.
              [video src="https://cdn.theguardian.tv/mainwebsite/2016/07/21/160721miamishooting2_desk.mp4" /]

            • Gezza

               /  23rd July 2016

              You’re right. Sorry. I utterly detest Anders Brevik. And the Hindu terrorist groups who are becoming prominent in India, especially apparently since Narendra Modi became Prime Minister.

              What’s the total number of people killed by Christian & Atheist & Hindu extremist suicide attackers over the last, say 20 years? Do you know?

              I’m not sure what their Scriptures say about killing unbelievers or those who might be considered to be attacking atheism or Hinduism, or Christianity (but the New Testament is squarely against this sort of thing I understand). I haven’t read the atheists or the Hindu scriptures.

            • Have you read this scripture?

              1 Do not sacrifice to the LORD your God an ox or a sheep that has any defect or flaw in it, for that would be detestable to him. 2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.

              Or this one?

              12 Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.

            • Gezza

               /  23rd July 2016

              I didn’t see you ask that local police bosses rushed to express the view law enforcement officers on how un-professional shooting people lying in the ground with their hands up is.

              I’m totally against this – especially since AJ reported last night on their News that when the Florida police officer was asked why he did it – even by fellow officers on the scene who were incredulous, he said he “didn’t know”.

              I’m fairly sure our local Police Commanders, & police officers generally, are dead-set against this sort of thing, & imagine they probably didn’t see any need to reassure the NZ public they wouldn’t do that sort of thing themselves.

            • Given the New Zealand police have shot two people recently wouldn’t some reassurance be in order?

            • Gezza

               /  23rd July 2016

              @ PG. Yes, I think the NZ police should probably be reassuring people that if they don’t threaten them, or members of the public, with weapons like machetes & shotguns when they’re committing offences or off their faces on drugs, they probably won’t be shot dead.

              Aren’t we getting a bit off the topic here, though? Didn’t you do a post on this issue recently? Maybe we should discuss this on that one? Though I’m pretty sure I’ve answered your questions about this & would really rather focus on Today’s Posts. Thanks.

    • Gezza

       /  23rd July 2016

      Have you read this scripture?
      1 Do not sacrifice to the LORD your God an ox or a sheep that has any defect or flaw in it, for that would be detestable to him. Etc.

      Yes. I think that’s from the Old Testament, isn’t it? The Jewish Bible part? Jesus reportedly had a totally different idea – like forgiving people, & not judging, leaving that his Dad, & being tolerant etc so that stuff really supersedes the Old Testament stuff & is the behaviour that Christians are told to emulate after the Gospels.

      Reply
      • So you are cherry picking parts of the total scripture. As many people with religious beliefs do, especially in the modern world, usually for the better.

        But some people do use old bits to excuse despicable behaviour.

        A Whanganui man used Old Testament Bible verses to say his alleged sexual abuse against a teenager was consensual, a court has heard.

        An acquaintance gave evidence in a trial in the Whanganui District Court on Thursday, saying he discussed the allegations with De Vries, who quoted Bible verses from the Old Testament.

        One was about how if a woman was raped in the town but did not cry out for help, the act was considered consensual.

        http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11678874

        Reply
        • Should Christians in Germany have condemned this?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  23rd July 2016

            @ PG
            Should Christians in Germany have condemned this?
            Well, if it was being splashed all over their media – I think yes, they should, & I imagine quite a few of them would if they were asked what they thought about it by TV interviewers.

            Reply
        • Gezza

           /  23rd July 2016

          Well, no I’m just making a point about the numbers of Islamic extremists who commit suicide attacks on unbelievers. Brown’s probably the best man to talk to about what the Bible says. I’m an agnostic so I think it’s all a load of bull – but he’s pretty convinced about it all I think.

          Reply
  2. Gezza

     /  23rd July 2016

    Al Jazeera TV News is currently reporting the Munich Police are advising there are 3 shooters on the the run & 6 known dead so far. Their commentator, Marwan Bishara, was asked to confirm it was another Islamic Terrorist attack – he replied along the lines:

    “Well, who knows if it’s ISIS on not, but lets get real here, there have been attacks like this going on now for months, in fact the whole of Europe is now under attack by asymmetrical warfare, which is very difficult to fight against – if it walks like a duck … ”

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/germany-shots-fired-munich-shopping-centre-160722163422857.html

    The transport system has been shut down, at least one shooter may have fled to the Underground, Police are urging people to stay indoors, & a massive manhunt is going on.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  23rd July 2016

      Latest update from AJ reporter – one – unconfirmed report – has been received in the last 10 minutes that one of the shooters may have shot himself dead during an operation by the Police to arrest him … they are broadcasting footage live from the area.

      The newsreader said the German Security Service is advising there are two shooters.
      But “witnesses said they saw “three shooters with long rifles”. So the number of attackers is still unconfirmed …
      7:18am

      Reply
    • Kevin

       /  23rd July 2016

      Now do we all get that we are at war?

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  23rd July 2016

      Al Jazeera reporting right now that Munich Police say after reviewing all the video tapes they now believe there was ONLY ONE gunman involved and that he shot himself in the head as Police closed in on him.

      10 reported dead at the moment. That may include the gunman.
      12.05pm

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  23rd July 2016

      Al Jazeera News: Munich Police report that the gunman was an 18 year old German-born German Iranian. They say that at this stage his motive is not known.

      As with the Nice attacker, I’m sure that over the next two or 3 days as their investigation continues, more information will come to light & whether this was an Islamic-terrorist-inspired suicide-by-cop attack or not.

      As was my position on the Nice Islamic extremist mass murderer, I am fairly confident that the investigation will quickly turn up information showing that this young mass murderer will also be found to have become radicalized and that this will be his motivation.

      Of course, it’s very early to call it, & I could be wrong … but, as with the Nice killer, this ftoo its the type of suicide attack on Western country citizens ISIS has called for. And, as I’ve also said b4 many times ,,, if I’m right, it’s not parents, it’s the kids you’ve got to worry about.

      Reply
  3. Missy

     /  23rd July 2016

    Daily Mail are reporting witnesses claiming one of the gunman shouted f*** foreigners.

    Also of interest, and may or may not be of significance if the above is true, it is 5 years to the day after Anders Breivik murdered 77 people in Norway.

    Reply
    • artcroft

       /  23rd July 2016

      Its all a bit ho hum these days. Just like the news of a pile up on the Auckland motorway – happens every other day. Journalist can get out the template article, change the place names and dates and file the story.

      Reply
    • David

       /  23rd July 2016

      Are you sure? The Daily Mail headline is:

      “Gunman shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ executed children in Munich McDonald’s”

      Is Allahu Akbar German for f*** foreigners?

      Reply
  4. The European Civil War is obviously in the very near making. I’d foreseen that in 2011. Next step of their quite imaginative imagination: direct attacks to every symbols of our government. The police, ‘la Gendarmerie’, City-Halls all throughout our French territory, ‘prefectures’, ‘sous prefecture’, should be very cautious—and even, double gear with their safety procedures. It seems as if a contest has just been launched; such as:’Who can kill more than the last one?’. This is just a premonition, that’s all!

    Reply
    • I wasn’t quite finished. I was about to
      warn all fathers or single moms to start opening your eyes wide open. Obviously, our police can’t do shit—never there when they should be urgently needed. Thus, we need the 2nd US’ amendment—if not to counter attack bad guys, at least to defend ourselves and our love ones. But once again, would you think our French leaders would ever care about this argument? They just want us to be ready to get killed like Ducks in hunting-season. Things never change, we’ll have, once again, to illegally purchase these needy protective guns if we wanna be able to sale expensively our hide.

      [If you are new here, welcome. Please note site guidelines: https://yournz.org/about/

      If you are returning under a different identity then you should know this is contrary to site rules. PG]

      Reply
  5. Brown

     /  23rd July 2016

    I agree with Pete that we should ignore our common sense in the hope that reality may be what we want rather than what is.

    Reply
  6. Our leaders have created this, we pay for it. They have the protection, and we, we have: nothing. We get killed and slaughtered and mutilated, and them: they’re safest SOBs on her earth. Remember what I keep repeating:”There’s No Greater Tyranny, than that which is perpetrated under the shield of law and in the name of Justice.”
    Montesquieu

    Reply
  7. As it turns out PG’s admonition to wait for the facts seems to be correct. The latest information from Germany is that the single perpetrator killed himself as the police moved in to get him. Totals killed =10 persons including t perpetrator who appears to have both Iranian and German nationalities and was a teenager. The police have not confirmed that he was in possession of a German ID card. Claims he shouted “Allahu Akbar” in the area of a toilet as quoted on video have not been separately confirmed. Some 20 other people were claimed to have been injured in the attack. The authorities are downplaying any use of ISIS ISIL Daesh and Islam in connection with the incident, which seems to be consistent with the EU approach.

    Reply
  8. Zedd

     /  23rd July 2016

    another ‘Lone WOLF’ OR have ISIL or Al Qaeda created a ‘MK ultra cell’ ?

    did they find a copy of ‘Catcher in the Rye’ laying nearby ?? :/

    “Help me to forget today’s pain !” 😦

    Reply
  9. Guardian:

    Iran has condemned the attack, which police say was carried out by a teenage German-Iranian gunman.

    Foreign ministry spokesman Bahram Ghasemi denounced “the killing of innocent and defenceless people” and expressed Iran’s solidarity with the German government and people, official IRNA news agency reported.

    Ghasemi also called for a “relentless and comprehensive fight” to eradicate violence.

    The attacker has been described as German born with dual German and Iranian citizenship.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  23rd July 2016

      Aren’t Iranians Shiites? They’re deeply involved in Iraq now, Lots of their military officers helping train the Shiite militias there. They’re having quite a big problem with the Iraqi Shiite militias still killing, harrassing & wrecking the houses of Sunni Muslims wherever they go unsupervised in Iraq. They don’t do the suicide bombing/suicide attack thing though – so it’s not surprising that they’re against this.

      Reply
  10. Richard Gutjahr who filmed the Nice France Bastille Day attack is married to Mossad agent and Knesset member Einat Wilf.

    http://forum.clonehost.net/topic/27/bouhle-truck-attack-nice-france/3

    Reply
  11. Brown

     /  24th July 2016

    I loved Pete quoting the Bible despite having next to no knowledge (according to Pete) apart from enjoying Jesus Christ – Superstar. I think ignoring context in both Christian and Muslim theology reflects a prejudice that is unfortunate and does not expand knowledge. I could sum up Christianity in three words but suspect Islam is far too convoluted to be treated like that.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  24th July 2016

      I could sum up Christianity in three words

      Interesting. Do you mind doing so now?

      Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  24th July 2016

        I’ll have a go G. “Jesus loves everybody”

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  24th July 2016

          Question: “What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?”

          Answer: The unpardonable/unforgivable sin or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22–30 and Matthew 12:22–32. Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter” (Mark 3:28), but then He gives one exception: “Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin” (verse 29).

          According to Jesus, the unpardonable or unforgivable sin is unique. It is the one iniquity that will never be forgiven (“never” is the meaning of “either in this age or in the age to come” in Matthew 12:32). The unforgivable sin is blasphemy (“defiant irreverence”) of the Holy Spirit in the context of the Spirit’s work in the world through Christ. In other words, the particular case of blasphemy seen in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 is unique. The guilty party, a group of Pharisees, had witnessed irrefutable evidence that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, yet they claimed that He was possessed by the prince of demons, Beelzebul (Matthew 12:24; Mark 3:30).

          Reply
    • It wasn’t me quoting the Bible in trying to defend sexual attacks.

      Reply

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