Q&A: immigration, People’s party, global water

This morning on NZ Q&A:

Immigration

Is it time for an immigration debate?

Political Editor Corin Dann talks through the numbers with Immigration Minister Michael Woodhouse – has the Government got our immigration settings right?

People’s Party

A new party for immigrants, the New Zealand People’s Party will launch next month. Greg Boyed asks its leader, Roshan Nauhria, whether his party can succeed.

They might get a chance to respond to attacks from Winston Peters – see People’s Party none of Peters’ business.

Global water issues

Plus, KPMG Global Head of Corporate Citizenship, Lord Michael Hastings, has been visiting New Zealand to talk about global water issues. Corin Dann finds out what he thought of New Zealand’s water problems.

And…

We also have an update on the situation of the young Mangere mother of three with a high-risk sex offender living over her back fence.

Joining our host Greg Boyed on the panel is political scientist Dr Raymond Miller, Islamic Women’s Council’s Anjum Rahmun and CE of the Auckland Chamber of Commerce Michael Barnett.

 

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29 Comments

  1. Nelly Smickers

     /  4th September 2016

    Wayne’s mum was telling us she got up early this morning to watch *Q&A*……..she always likes to be well informed on matters relating to Politics and Immigration etc, so she can have an intelligent conversation with all the other superanuitants at the Remuera Bridge Club.

    She just emailed this pic to Wayne and said, “Never mind about *Winston*, this is the bloke that will be the *Maharajah Maker* following next years General Election” :/

    Reply
  2. Zedd

     /  4th September 2016

    Woodhouse just making excuses for ‘Team Key’ giving priority to foreign workers who will come here & work for minimum wage (or less ?) then likely vote for the Govt. that gave them the access ?! :/

    more evidence that they are only concerned about promoting the ‘neo-liberal’ agenda (favouring the wealthiest business-folk).. not ‘average kiwis’ 😦

    Reply
  3. Zedd

     /  4th September 2016

    btw; if the global news networks report further on ‘water pollution in Aotearoa/NZ’ then the whole ‘clean green, 100% pure’ (B-S) will finally be seen for what it really is (an advertising slogan, (from ‘Team Key’) with no basis in reality.. in the North Island, at least).. then we wont be able to give it away.. never mind; “sell it off to the higher bidder !” 😦

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  4th September 2016

      Your ‘hate’ of John Key is overwhelming you……….”the whole ‘clean green, 100% pure’ (B-S) will finally be seen for what it really is (an advertising slogan, (from ‘Team Key’)”.

      Tourism NZ: “When 100% Pure New Zealand was launched in 1999”

      http://www.tourismnewzealand.com/about/what-we-do/campaign-and-activity/

      Click to access pure-as-celebrating-10-years-of-100-pure-new-zealand.pdf

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  4th September 2016

        my comments are about ‘Team Key’ (the party ?) not just their ‘dictatorial leader’.. wake up !

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  4th September 2016

          Nice attempt at covering your mistake but ‘Team Key’ is a very recent thing and refers to John Key being the focal point of the last election campaign.

          Considering Key wasn’t around parliament in 1999 you could hardly say the ‘100% pure’ slogan was something ‘from Team Key’.

          I stronger person would have admitted their error, you not so much……

          Reply
          • Zedd

             /  4th September 2016

            .. again.. “wake up” :/
            I’m not talking about the original of the slogan.. BUT the fact that this Govt. (aka ‘Team Key’) are still using/promoting it, when most know its total B-S 😀

            Reply
            • John Schmidt

               /  4th September 2016

              JK has been so unsuccesful in tourisim that it now exceeds dairy as our largest earner. Imagine what would happen if JK was successful. I guess we have different views on what sucessful looks like.

  4. Re immigration –

    Immigration Minister Michael Woodhouse gets his mucking furds wuddled by saying “What I have less time for is that xenophobic streak that underpins a small cohort of New Zealanders who don’t want people who look like them to come in.” Never mind, we can guess what he means. But there’s no talk about cluster limits, the need to keep non-Western immigrants from forming ghettos which is a major source of complaint from ordinary Kiwis. Not to mention civic leaders who say things like, “Hamilton risks social unrest similar to that seen in France if it ignores the plight of its refugees.” Brexit succeeded in no small part because Europe’s leaders were blind to the concerns of ordinary residents. The much misrepresented rise of the Far-Right (it’s not, it’s simply ordinary citizens voting for a party which offers to look after their own interests as native rather than immigrants) is a direct consequence. Yet electoral balance can be easily achieved by considerate management of immigration, and permitting entry to people with an ethnic or national record of assimilation.

    But there’s more digressive discourse from Woodhouse. He refers to a BERL report talking about the economic value of immigrants, but fails to differentiate between, for example, temporary students, skilled employees and wealthy immigrants, and those who come in under refugee and other international provisions who do not contribute in the same way as the former category. The government’s ideological blindness, not to mention ignorance, is nationally destructive for our future in the same manner that affects Europe now.

    Dr Miller put it better, [The government doesn’t] want to stir up a cocktail of resentment around housing, education, health-care, low wages, so from their point of view particularly given the advent yet again of the Winston Peters party, they’re very keen to ensure that they undergo a review and see whether the numbers are actually right.

    Michael Barnett puts it better still when he says businesses want a matching of skills. “What we do see is people coming into this country with high skills that are working for the minimum wage because their skills aren’t being recognised here in New Zealand. We do see students who are coming into this country, they are working through the system in the first year, they’re applying for residency in the second and they’re bringing out family in the third. It doesn’t match what the country needs right now. So it’s not about numbers, it’s about the right skills and matching.

    Anjum Rahman is patently dishonest when she says “when we are talking about immigrants it’s a code word for people of colour,” not those from England or the USA. Then says that the Punjabi community are celebrating 125 years of existence in New Zealand, indicating their inability to lose their racial identity while blaming it the resulting self-inflicted prejudice on others. Chinese, to their huge credit, do manage to drop this sort of insult to Kiwi identity, and that is, to my way of thinking, because they don’t have rigid theological or ideological background, and are more racially and culturally inclined to meld.

    Rahman mentions the vulnerability of migrants and talks of them being mistreated and exploited, yet newspapers print story after story about how it is other migrants, almost exclusively of the same race, who commit these acts. But Rahman’s implication by omission is that it is ordinary Kiwis who are doing this.

    Rahman is building up a record of rather obtuse and anti-assimilationist thinking, and the respect she seems to get from media and government outweighs her credibility.

    Humans are, by their nature, homophilic. The opposite, heterophily, is, ipso facto, an unnatural state and one which has to be to a greater or lesser extent enforced. The West’s process of mandated heterophily in Europe is becoming manifestly unstuck. NZ still has an opportunity to learn lessons from Europe’s growing chaos, but media, bien pensants and the government’s tardy arousal is a serious worry for NZ’s future.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  4th September 2016

      A post. Excellent polemic Kit. Don’t know if I agree the Indian community doesn’t assimilate. A young Indian nurse looked after dad in hospital yesterday. I expected her to have an Indian accent but was as Kiwi chick as you could possibly expect to get. She even said, when she couldn’t find dad’s zimmer frame “someone must’ve tooken it”, so she pretty clearly was educated here.

      I see lots of kids of Indian immigrants round here. They all look, talk, & dress like all the other kiwi kids, and hang around with them as well.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  4th September 2016

        There was a young Indian nurse in the group getting their citizenship in the Kaitaia ceremony with my wife and stepdaughter. She had a big group of Maori supporters and was fluent in Te Reo.

        Reply
      • I didn’t say they don’t assimilate, and it does depend on their religion, of course. Anglos assimilate seamlessly given their names, two I know of are Adrian O’Brien and Andrew Paul, both Indian born and of light Indian appearance but you know their progeny will be Kiwi (or Aussie in Adrian’s case) through and through. Hindus less so, with their reluctance to use Kiwi given names – compare that with Chinese who almost all have a Kiwi given name, even the immigrants themselves. Sikhs less so again with their absurd religious regalia and rules, which is, in India at least, forming a level of extremism. The only Sikh woman I’ve met impressed me as a model of urbanity, but the religion may fail them, too, if their desire to mimic men’s headdress gains strength. Then we come to the Muslims … enough said.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  4th September 2016

          Sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying Kit. It was the last sentence here that threw me:
          “Then says that the Punjabi community are celebrating 125 years of existence in New Zealand, indicating their inability to lose their racial identity while blaming it the resulting self-inflicted prejudice on others. Chinese, to their huge credit, do manage to drop this sort of insult to Kiwi identity, and that is, to my way of thinking, because they don’t have rigid theological or ideological background, and are more racially and culturally inclined to meld.”

          What did you mean here?

          Reply
          • Just that Kiwis who feel compelled to celebrate, five generations later, where their ancestors came from, seem to lack an assimilatory gene. I have significantly more respect for Chinese, who tend to make a greater contribution to Kiwi culture rather than impose their own on Kiwis. And they rarely make an issue of their heritage. I know little of Chinese religions, but they seem never to get in the way of secular social progress. My observations, such as they are, of marriage for both Chinese and Indians is that is miscegenation is much more common with the former than the latter.

            Does that help?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  4th September 2016

              Yes, but it doesn’t match entirely with my observations down here. I have two sets of Chinese neighbours. One of them has two daughters. The youngest got in a relationship with a pakeha and has been cut out of the family. The eldest has a Chinese boyfriend. Probably not typical bot I had a discussion years back with female Chinese NZ born work colleague who had married a pakeha. Her parents had accepted that, she said, but made it clear her sister had to marry an ethnic chinese.

              Also, In North Welly where i am I see lots of Kiwi-sounding young Indians. More of the girls, at least, have pakeha (ie white European) boyfriends & partners than Indian ones.

            • Corky

               /  4th September 2016

              ”Her parents had accepted that, she said, but made it clear her sister had to marry an ethnic chinese?”

              What should we make of that? I have may interpretation, but I would like to hear yours.

            • Corky

               /  4th September 2016

              *my*

            • Gezza

               /  4th September 2016

              @ Corky. In the context of the conversation, it was very clear that her parents wanted at least one daughter to provide them with 100% ethnically Chinese children. But they loved this country & their mixed race grandchildren too, & they were hoping her sister would date & marry an NZ- born Chinese man. They were market gardeners who had been here for years and had all their children born here.

            • Gezza – there’s clearly a risk with personal anecdotalism and I would very much like to see an analysis of comparative miscegeny of Indians and Chinese in NZ.

            • Corky

               /  4th September 2016

              I can’t help but believe they subconsciously think they won’t have true grandchildren until they are 100% Chinese. That only full blooded Chinese grandchildren can be imparted with all their knowledge of things Chinese ( and maybe most of their heirlooms?). I say that because of the rider they have imposed on the unmarried daughter.
              I keep thinking of the half American/ Vietnamese kids who are ostracised from society in Vietnam.

              Obviously that’s not the case here, and I certainly wouldn’t hold it against them because similar edicts can be found in Pakeha, Maori and Indian society.

              My point is sometimes people don’t realise how powerful the instinct to propagate their race can be. A non-racist person to me isn’t someone who treats all fairly because that’s the ideal behaviour. Its someone who realises when inherent racial traits arise in their conciousness and demand they asses and act on those hard-wired instincts.

            • And some say only Caucasians can be racist! It’s long been my opinion that the greater factor for in-group/out-group differentiation is culture (exemplified by shared experience, cultural capital and ‘class’) rather than race per se. But this may apply optimally in a high-diversity environment such as ours. So the question to ask of people such as this representational Chinese family is what is at the heart of their concern – millennia-old Chinese culture, the Chinese race, or a Weltanschauung of which even they cannot articulate.

              Your last paragraph is very perceptive and reinforces my point about innate homophily. But the failure of the chattering classes to understand this subtle distinction means that the all-purpose epithet of ‘racism’ will place undeserved guilt on Caucasians and silence debate on mandated heterophily.

      • Nelly Smickers

         /  4th September 2016

        To be fair though Geez, you may find the Indians down your way are from a *different caste* compared to the ones we see in Remuera ?

        Reply
        • Nelly raises a very serious point. If a Sikh or Hindu is to assimilate into an alien host culture such as NZ’s it is of paramount importance that they repudiate the caste structure. I suspect that this will not be the case, with surnames often giving the game away. It could be that Indians of those backgrounds will maintain it. If a resurgence of racio-religious identity in these cultures occurs here there will be some serious un-Kiwi conniptions.

          Reply
          • Nelly Smickers

             /  4th September 2016

            To be fair Kits, I can’t take full credit for the comment….it was Wayne’s mum that sent it to me XD

            Reply
        • Zedd

           /  4th September 2016

          @NS

          .. a bit like the ‘maori king’ (kingitanga) supposedly speaking for all maori, saying ‘dont vote Labour’.. vote for the Maori Party, who are moving & further & further to the RIGHT, by the day ! 😦

          Reply
          • Zedd

             /  4th September 2016

            I heard Te Ururoa & Marama saying ‘being at the table’ is better than not.. BUT do they really want to sit at the table, where they are effectively ‘selling their soul to the DEVIL & his minions’ ? 😦

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  4th September 2016

              Probably they’ve discovered it isn’t the Devil and his minions at the table. But don’t let long distance prejudice worry you.

  5. Pete Kane

     /  4th September 2016

    British country house cooking

    Reply

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