Trump versus women

The issue of Donald trump’s attitude to women and his alleged inappropriate behaviour with women continues to dominate the US presidential election. More allegations have been published from women claiming that Trump has acted with them much like he described him being in the tape conversation that emerged a week ago.

This also brings to the surface a major issue of (some) male attitudes to woman.

The latest allegation is in the Washington Post: Woman says Trump reached under her skirt and groped her in early 1990s

Kristin Anderson, who was pursuing a modeling career, has told The Post that Donald Trump groped her on a couch in a crowded Manhattan nightspot in the early 1990s. The Trump campaign denied the allegations, as it has denied claims made by other women who have come forward in recent days.

Kristin Anderson was deep in conversation with acquaintances at a crowded Manhattan nightspot and did not notice the figure to her right on a red velvet couch — until, she recalls, his fingers slid under her miniskirt, moved up her inner thigh, and touched her vagina through her underwear.

Anderson shoved the hand away, fled the couch and turned to take her first good look at the man who had touched her, she said.

She recognized him as Donald Trump: “He was so distinctive looking — with the hair and the eyebrows. I mean, nobody else has those eyebrows.”

Over the years, Anderson, now 46 and a photographer living in Southern California, has recounted the story to people she knew, casually at first.

One friend, Kelly Stedman, told The Washington Post that Anderson informed her about the encounter a few days after it happened.

Anderson, who said she doesn’t support Trump or Democrat Hillary Clinton, did not initially approach The Post. A reporter contacted her after hearing her story from a person who knew of it, and she spent several days trying to decide whether to go public.

“Mr. Trump strongly denies this phony allegation by someone looking to get some free publicity. It is totally ridiculous,” Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks said in an emailed statement.

The growing number of complaints against Trump, triggered by his denial he never acted the way he described in the tape, are a major distraction for his presidential campaign.

And they seem to be having an effect in polls. Trump is losing support amongst women.

A spokesperson for Trump has just said on Fox News that the allegations are very difficult to deal with (understandably). He also said he knows Trump very well and “he didn’t do any of these things”. That means nothing unless he was with at the time of each alleged grope.

The latest Fox News poll: Clinton leads Trump by 7 points:

Hillary Clinton’s lead over Donald Trump has increased to seven points, as more than half of voters say he is not qualified to be president.

  • Hillary Clinton 45%
  • Donald Trump 38%
  • Gary Johnson 7%
  • Jill Stein 3%.

Last week, Clinton was up by two points in the four-way contest (44-42 percent).

In the two-way matchup, it’s Clinton over Trump by eight (49-41 percent).  She had a four-point edge a week ago (48-44 percent, Oct. 3-6).  

That’s a significant move.

Breakdowns show that Trump is best supported by less educated white males, and his support from women is slipping.

Trump’s support:

  • Men +5 points
  • Whites +14
  • Whites without a college degree +25

But he has declining support with:

  • Voters ages 65+ down 11 points
  • White college graduates down 6
  • Regular church goers down 8
  • Women ages 45 and over down 12
  • Suburban women down 10
  • White women with a college degree down 7
  • GOP women down 6

That is significantly reducing support from women.

Trump’s enthusiasm advantage is also down, and Clinton’s is up:

70 percent of his backers “strongly” supported him last week.  That’s 63 percent now.  

For Clinton, it’s 66 percent, up from 57 percent.  

Honest and trustworthy:

  • Clinton 32% (up 1)
  • Trump 31% (down 3)

The right temperament to serve effectively as president:

  • Clinton 62% (up 1)
  • Trump 34% (down 3)

“Regardless of how you might vote, how qualified do you think Hillary Clinton is to be President of the United States?”

  • Very 41% (up 4)
  • Somewhat 26% (up 1)
  • Not very 8% (down 3)
  • Not at all 24% (down 3)

“Regardless of how you might vote, how qualified do you think Trump is to be President of the United States?”

 

  • Very 16% (no change)
  • Somewhat 26% (down 1)
  • Not very 9% (down 5)
  • Not at all 49% (up 7)

 

Clinton has her own problems with the drip feed from WikiLeaks, but at this stage it seems that Trump is being damaged more by the sexual impropriety allegations, especially amongst female voters.

UPDATE: There’s yet another woman who has come out and claimed Trump assaulted and kissed her during episode 5 of The Apprentice. She has just appeared with her lawyer in an interview from Los Angeles.

I’ve been watching Fox News coverage of this as it happens and as they covered the latest Trump speech and even from Fox he is getting bad coverage. They are showing contradictions in Trump’s denials, and showing him calling all the women liars and implying and saying that some of them are too ugly for him to assault.

He spent most of his speech (in Greensboro, North Carolina) denying accusations and attacking the women who have come out and accused him.

And he also continued with claims that the media is conspiring with the Clintons against him and that the whole election is rigged.

Some lap this stuff up but it’s looking increasingly like a major stuff up for the Republican Party.

There’s some irony here – Clinton has been promoted as a a great role model for women, especially if she wins the presidency.

But it may be Trump’s abuse of women and women’s reaction to that in the ballot box that loses the election for Trump more than Clinton winning it.

Politico:

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62 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  15th October 2016

    The orange freak is in the toilet,all it needs is to be flushed

    Reply
  2. Kevin

     /  15th October 2016

    He’s running for president of the United States, not president of the world morality police.

    Reply
    • The Fox poll shows that clear majorities don’t think he has the temperament to be president (66%), or he is suitably qualified to be president (58%). They didn’t ask about morality.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th October 2016

        It’s not being morality police to not want someone as President of one of the largest countries in the world to be a foulmouthed, overbearing, ‘I can grope anyone, because I’m a star’ buffoon. I am neither young nor beautiful enough to be the target of his roving little hands, thank goodness. But would you want the leader of NZ to talk like this ?

        Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th October 2016

    Trump Abused Me has been made a meme that any woman who ever met him can join for five minutes of fame.

    In Lucy Lawless’s case even in the absurd variation “Trump didn’t abuse me but he probably wanted to”.

    Historic allegations will mostly be impossible to refute which is all that matters to the media which publishes them. I think Trump’s campaign is doomed and we are stuck with the corrupt and incompetent Clinton.

    Reply
    • Most women are very reluctant to go public when they are sexually assaulted (as are men).

      Of those who have over the last few days Trump has attacked them, called them liars and has been derogatory about them – not things that most women would volunteer for publicity for.

      One of Trump’s problems with women is that women are generally very good at reading body language and will be assessing how he comes across in his denials versus how the women who are accusing him appear. And the polls seem to be saying something.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  15th October 2016

        It only needs a handful of women from the thousands he has met in his lifetime, let alone those who just think they might have met him. There is no defence against that. The media don’t need to convince all women, just enough to tip the electoral scales at the margin. 5% will suffice.

        Reply
        • Trump was already about 5% down. This makes a comeback (and there have been significant fluctuations in support over the last few months) increasingly difficult.

          Reply
      • Klik Bate

         /  15th October 2016

        There’s still millions out there…..

        Reply
      • Pete, I think you should say “Most women were very reluctant … etc as was the case years ago. The worm, as it were has turned and I believe women feel much easier about speaking out about unwanted behaviour At least I hope that is true.

        Reply
  4. Corky

     /  15th October 2016

    Did Trump do some of this stuff? Yes? Is his attitude toward women vastly different to many men? No.

    As i’ve gotten older I have found it hard to tolerate many Kiwi males attitude towards women. That goes for all classes of men. I went to a high brow Charity fund-raiser once. The attitude towards women was appalling. One respected member of the legal fraternity told us what he planned to do with his office girl once she was on his yacht. Others suggested he video it for prosperity. He never got to regale us with more stories because his wife and daughter excused him to make a speech for all us upstanding members of the community..

    All Trump can now do for the 3rd debate is simple. It has to be Policy Policy and Policy. Its a waste of time playing tit for tat given his predicament

    But how dumb are Americans? Bill Clinton fugged everything in sight. That didn’t make the government collapse. I doubt Trump would get half the chances to play up should he become President.

    Reply
    • “All Trump can now do for the 3rd debate is simple. It has to be Policy Policy and Policy. Its a waste of time playing tit for tat given his predicament”

      That’s just about all he did in his latest speech, tit for tat, complained about the attacks and conspiracies against him, attacked Clinton, and he barely mentioned policy.

      He is playing into the Clinton campaign’s hand but doesn’t seem to be able to resist making it all about him.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  15th October 2016

        Ego is a tyrant hard to control for some. And as you say, WikiLeaks can’t compete with the salacious sex allegations Trump is accused of. The public don’t seem interested in the dry words of Wikileak. Maybe if they converted Wikileaks into cartoon form the public may get to understand better.

        Reply
        • If emails reveal that Clinton has a long history of sexually assaulting men then I think that would get a lot of media attention.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  15th October 2016

            Would it what !!!

            What a bloody, bloody fool Trump is-dismissing that woman as ‘something’ (not someone, unless I am remembering it wrong) that he would have any interest in-and making dismissive comments about Hillary Clinton’s appearance on the debate. It was a debate, not a beauty contest-what did he expect her to wear ? A sleeveless top with a plunging neckline and a slit skirt ?

            His lawyers must be making that throat-cutting gesture-shut up, shut up, shut up. How can he be such an idiot ? These remarks are just digging him in even deeper !

            I do wonder just what he sees when he looks in a mirror, if he feels entitled to make such insulting remarks about the appearance of women who are 100x better looking as women than he is a man.

            Reply
  5. How convenient that they all are coming forward now after decades where they could have done so and successfuly… I smell an extremely large rat

    Reply
    • Many women have had to silently deal with sexual assaults for a very long time.

      Some women have come forward against Trump in the past.

      Some are apparently now reacting to a presidential debate where he denies doing things he is in tape bragging about doing.

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  15th October 2016

      A extremely large rat? You think he’s being ratteDon?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th October 2016

        The trouble is that it’s your word against theirs.If it’s not too serious, then it’s not worth bothering for the most part.

        I didn’t report the attempted rape by my ex-partner’s (youngish) uncle, as it failed, the thought of going through it all again was unappealing, and it would have been terrible for the family as well as me. He was so devastated when he sobered up that that would have been a worse punishment than any handed down by a court. Serve him right. I refused to accept his apology attempts and cut him dead whenever I saw him.

        The problem is that the hassle of reporting an unwanted sloppy kiss (ugh) or a grope is probably not worth it-as it wasn’t worth reporting the the theft of our cheap solar lights.

        I don’t believe that all or even most men are like this. And no, I am not that naive, I have had unwanted attentions.

        I worked in a place where a woman was very flirty and touchy with the men-who did not appreciate this. She would have been humiliated had she heard what they said about her and her unwanted attentions, I suspect.

        The worst ones, in a way, are the ones that are presented as just friendly. The hug that’s too close and too long. It’s very hard to do anything about that.

        The inappropriate talk is best treated by ‘not hearing’ or a blank gaze ‘I have no idea what you mean.’ so that it falls flat and the person looks very foolish.

        Reply
  6. duperez

     /  15th October 2016

    I put all this stuff together, tidied it up in my mind and came up with the logical conclusion – Donald Trump is merely a false allegation.

    Reply
  7. duperez

     /  15th October 2016

    Something that came to mind – the Mils Muliaina case.

    “The All Blacks legend was on Monday cleared of grabbing a 19-year-old’s bottom, which was alleged to have happened on the dance floor of a crowded bar in the Brewery Quarter of Cardiff city centre.”
    “He was accused of having had his hand on a woman’s clothed bottom but says he still can’t understand why he was charged at all when neither video evidence nor witness statements identified him as the person ­allegedly involved in the incident.”

    Remember the drama, the headlines, the condemnation? Alleged to have grabbed a bottom and was hauled off in front of the TV cameras? I guess things are different in the UK.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  15th October 2016

      I don’t remember that at all. What injustice, it’s as if arn a one’s better than narn a one. The real person must have been laughing his head off.

      l saw a headline about a vicious assault (pick any cliche) after New Year’s Eve ( I think) in the UK. A man and a woman, unknown to to each other, had an argument and she pushed him over in the street, causing minor injuries whose nature I forget. When he stood up, he gave her a backhander across the face. Guess who was the villain of the piece in the headline and article ? The one who could have been killed or the one who did it and had a smack across the face in exchange ?

      Yes, right answer, it was the one who was knocked into the street.

      It goes both ways.

      Reply
  8. zedd99

     /  15th October 2016

    Its a bit like the parnell ponytail puller.. if it had been just ‘Joe Blow’ he would have been arrested & locked up.. BUT money & power… :/

    Reply
  9. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th October 2016

    The question is whether this form of attack would have worked without the Bush-Trump interview tape? If so, I think it will set the scene for future campaigns as it will be impossible to counter for most men and all it takes is a handful of women with a grudge, a political PoV and/or a neurosis that wants publicity and validation. In a country the size of the US that won’t be hard to find.

    Maybe only female candidates will be relatively immune from this stuff from now on.

    Reply
  10. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th October 2016

    Actually, I think Trump should frame the debate like this:

    Yes, men like me love women and try to use their opportunities to get them into bed.
    But women like Clinton try to use their opportunities to get money and personal power. Take your pick, folks.

    I guess that would be the French and Italian approach. They’ve had a lot of experience.

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  15th October 2016

      I could care less about hair Drumpf’s public masturbation rants.. i for 1 dont want this nut-job with his hands on the ‘Nuke codes’ of USA 😦

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  15th October 2016

        Be gentle on Trumpy, Zedd. Don’t forget if Hills becomes Prez, you may have trouble excusing one crisis after the next. Everyone is forgetting POST ELECTION. LOL, snigger!

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  15th October 2016

      Right and Righteous thinking, Alan. Apart from being true.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  15th October 2016

        How can he love all women ? That’s nonsense. If you love someone, you don’t talk about how they have to be treated like shit (his words), you don’t talk about grabbing their genitals, you don’t walk in on them naked in a dressingroom-I’m a star, I don’t have to knock-you don’t talk about wanting to fuck them or say that they have just been fucked. Those are not respectful words, either.

        If a woman grabbed your genitals, would you see this as ‘love’ ? Or the action of someone who claimed to respect men ?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  15th October 2016

          “all” is your insertion, Kitty, not mine. Love encompasses lust, it doesn’t exclude it. Yes, his recorded words were obnoxious and disrespectful and he rightly apologised for them.

          As for the grabbing you mention, interpretation would certainly depend on context. It might signal disrespect or it might signal serious interest and intent. I would hope for the latter!

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  15th October 2016

            If one says that one loves women, ‘all’ is surely implied. It’s nonsense, anyway. How can anyone love half the human race ?

            Lust for a stranger has nothing to do with love.

            If you met a woman at a conference and she took the first opportunity to grab your dangly bits with no warning or lead-up, you would surely regard this as a sexual assault or a sign of nymphomania-or insanity. If a woman you had just met grabbed you and began kissing you intimately,lips all over your face, trying to put her tongue in your mouth, surely you would find this disconcerting to say the least.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  15th October 2016

              If Trump said that he used his position to get women into bed, he’d make himself a laughing-stock, as if he couldn’t do this any other way. Which is probably true.

              He’d also be revealing himself as a serial adulterer, which is what he has accused Bill Clinton of being,

              We all know that there are women who will sleep with rich men for that reason alone. He’d be saying that he loved women-but saw them as whores !

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th October 2016

              No-one can love all women but plenty of men enjoy making love to them as often as possible – at least in their imagination.

              As I said, context is everything. I suspect lust for a stranger has precipitated at least as many marriages as it has ended. Even for Trump.

              And for his alleged assaults, the first question is whether the allegations are true and accurate. I certainly don’t defend them as reported.

              Women are now widely regarded as not responsible for any bad decisions they make while intoxicated. Has a woman ever been charged with sexual assault on a man (not a minor)? Why do you think it never happens?

  11. Joe Bloggs

     /  15th October 2016

    How convenient that they all are coming forward now after decades where they could have done so and successfuly… I smell an extremely large rat

    Trump Abused Me has been made a meme that any woman who ever met him can join for five minutes of fame.

    While not all sexual assault survivors’ stories will rise to the level of national news, the majority of survivors who speak out can expect to face similar doubt, name-calling and harassment as Trump’s accusers — which is exactly why two-thirds of sexual assaults go unreported.

    It seems common practice that when survivors come forward they’re revictimised either by social media and the press, or by the court system. That’s a big part of why a lot of women choose not to come forward. There are all kinds of cultural forces at work that try to blame the victim and put her on trial instead of the alleged perpetrator.

    There’s no payoff for women who come forward about their assaults, especially when their allegations are against a man as wealthy and powerful as Trump. The suggestion that they’re pursuing money or fame is baseless — their accusations have been made long after the statute of limitations has passed and they’ve made no mention of any financial compensation. As for fame, there have been plenty of examples in the past of women who have come forward about their assaults only to be revictimised. Who would willingly choose that?

    In fact, they’ve made their motivations quite clear. Jessica Leeds said she was incited by Trump’s denial that he’s ever committed sexual assault at Sunday night’s debate. Rachel Crooks wanted to ‘put the record straight’. Just like the women who stepped forward to put the record straight about well known ‘entertainers’ in the UK and USA.

    As for accusations that this is dirty politics that reaches back decades to smear Trump? Well before the second debate, Trump put forward women who had made sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton decades earlier, and tried to blame Hillary Clinton for mistreating them. Trump and his surrogates said “every” woman who accuses a man of assault should be believed. And even as Trump blasts Hillary Clinton for not believing her husband’s accusers, Trump’s not giving his accusers the same deference, saying they’re lobbing false accusations, calling their accounts ‘phony’, accusing them of ‘looking to get free publicity’.

    Of course Trump’s already damned himself by his own words “grab them by the pussy”
    And not forgetting how he bullied and tried to fat-shame Alicia Machado. Or the way he performed on camera mocking a disabled journalist. Or his put-down of the parents of a soldier who gave his life for America. Or his Twitter assault on Megyn Kelly. Or his performance the next night on CNN when he described her appearance during the debate by saying, “You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her wherever.”…. This list could go on for hours. Fortunately The New York Times has compiled a list already…
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-insults.html?_r=0

    ——–
    Oh, wait… but what about the emails??? Well don’t blame the press for not covering the emails as long as they have videotape evidence showing one of the two candidates for president brags of being a sexual predator.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  15th October 2016

      The problem is that so many sexual ‘assaults’ are minor and nasty rather than serious. It’s like being thumped rather than beaten up.

      I would guess that DT is one of these who knows just how far to go before it becomes something that the person would report rather than making a resolve to avoid his roving little hands and slobbery lips in future.

      A psychologist would have a field day with him.

      Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  15th October 2016

        I would guess that DT is one of these who knows just how far to go before it becomes something that the person would report rather than making a resolve to avoid his roving little hands and slobbery lips in future

        I would guess the same Kitty. Similar to the offender in this case, who I can’t name here for legal reasons: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11355598
        At the time, there was a bit of speculation in the smoko room about who this ‘man’ was. When I told the boys his name, one of the older guys exclaimed with a laugh, “You’re fucking kidding!”. He then went on to tell us how, over a decade earlier, his wife had worked in the same office as (name suppressed), and that all the women there were careful to never be alone with him, as he had a reputation for being a perv. Of course, no-one ever made a formal complaint, since he was higher up than them (and for other reasons which may identify him, so I won’t go there)

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  15th October 2016

          In the place I worked where that woman did a lot of what would have had her at least warned had she been a man, there was a man who was known to be a bit of a perv. When he was promoted and would have been in an office with a lot of girls, they all said that they wouldn’t work with him-it was them or him. Management chose them.He was a dirty-mouthed talker for the most part, if there was anything else I don’t remember it, but that was unpleasant enough. The odd thing was that he had a lovely wife who also worked there-one reason why people were reluctant to complain, as everyone liked her.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  15th October 2016

            He must have a bit of explaining & quick thinking to do when he had to tell his wife why the new job wasn’t happening. Serve him right.

            Reply
  12. Alan Wilkinson

     /  15th October 2016

    “The suggestion that they’re pursuing money or fame is baseless”

    Maybe, maybe not. All the big media are competing for the best dirt. Someone whose life isn’t working out might be rewarded with validation and support – or see that as a prospect. There have been plenty of false allegations of rape for a variety of motivations including some hard to fathom. For good reason there is a statute of limitations as it is so difficult to determine truth with little evidence in historic allegations. Even without the criminal implications two people can have completely different recollections of something that happened long ago with little guarantee that either represent the truth. Add in political motives filtering recollections and who knows what really happened.

    Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  15th October 2016

      Of course false allegations occur… in a recent research study in America, false reports were found in between 2 and 10% of cases.

      But that leaves 90 – 98% of reports where allegations were proven. In short most reports of sexual assault, and other serious crimes turn out to be true. When a man says he was beaten up, or a woman says she was assaulted, most of the time it really did happen. And the majority of people who are accused of a crime do turn out to be guilty.

      That’s why we listen to victims.

      You might be interested in reading this:

      Click to access Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

      It concludes in part: Research shows that rates of false reporting are frequently inflated, in part because of inconsistent definitions and protocols, or a weak understanding of sexual assault. Misconceptions about false reporting rates have direct, negative consequences and can contribute to why many victims don’t report sexual assaults.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  15th October 2016

        I read it. It is from a lobby group, but says false reports of rape are in the 2-10% range. However, it also says it doesn’t count “unfounded” accusations as false reports and gives no estimate for that range.

        So there is a significant likelihood of false accusations which may well be heightened during a political witch hunt as is currently in progress in the US media.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  15th October 2016

        And this is why accusations of rape should not be taken verbatim as reliable and why the history and character of the accuser may be relevant:
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/14/footballer-ched-evans-cleared-of-raping-teenager-after-two-week/

        Reply
      • Joe Bloggs

         /  15th October 2016

        Alan, re my previous link being from a lobby group, here’s another study conducted by researchers in Boston Universities. They observe in their abstract that 5.9% of allegations of sexual assault in their study were coded as false allegations. “These results, taken in the context of an examination of previous research, indicate that the prevalence of false allegations is between 2% and 10%.”

        http://vaw.sagepub.com/content/16/12/1318

        And from a study conducted by Nicola Gavey at the University of Auckland:
        The coding “unfounded” can also come about by police who “wrongly accuse women of making false rape accusations because of inadequate training, inappropriate interviewing techniques, and a desire to close the file on cases that are difficult to resolve”
        – Gavey, N., and Gow, V. (2001). Cry wolf’, cried the wolf: Constructing the issue of false rape allegations in New Zealand media texts. Feminism & Psychology, 11(3), 341-360.

        Gavey and Gow also quote Brownmiller (1976): “the most bitter irony or rape . . . has been the historic masculine fear of false accusation”

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  15th October 2016

          Our courts were devised solely to protect the individual from false allegations – otherwise there would be no need for trials. False allegations of rape are the easiest to make and sustain because obtaining independent evidence of consent is near impossible, just as true allegations are similarly impossible to prove.

          The cause of justice is not advanced by prejudices about truth and falsity but only by improvements in the quality of evidence.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  15th October 2016

            There is often physical evidence that proves force, we all know what that is, I think.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th October 2016

              Even where that exists it can be ambiguous – as per my link above. But probably in most disputed cases there is little or no evidence of physical force.

          • Joe Bloggs

             /  15th October 2016

            False allegations of rape are the easiest to make and sustain

            That may be so but studies (plural) not only from lobby groups but from universities as well have shown that the prevalence of false allegations is between 2% and 10%…

            Which still supports my contention that the large majority of women (if not all of them) who have come forward about Trumps predatory behaviour 1) are genuine, and 2) want to put the record straight

            And it also qualifies your earlier comment that “There have been plenty of false allegations of rape”… well there may have been “plenty of false allegations” of rape, but there have been whole orders of magnitude more allegations of rape that have stood up in court.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  15th October 2016

              I didn’t say the lobby group did the studies, they just interpreted them. And as I point out they subtracted the unquantified “unfounded” category to arrive at the 2-10% false segment.

              The fact that a high proportion of allegations don’t make it as far as court suggests that the “unfounded” category may be quite large.

              As for assuming that a similar proportion of historic Trump complaints of sexual impropriety to the media are true/false I think that is no better than speculation given the difference between going to the police shortly after a rape to accuse a private individual and face court compared with joining a media witch hunt on a political figure with a historic accusation of varying levels of sexual impropriety.

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  15th October 2016

              A media witch-hunt? That’s just gaslighting, straight out of Trump’s playbook. You’re way behinds the times Alan. Trump’s blaming the Mexicans now:

              https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/14/trump-groping-accusations-new-york-times-rally

  13. Kitty Catkin

     /  15th October 2016

    I would guess-and it’s just a guess-that he is one of those who could make something that would be all right when most men did it seem sexual and offensive. The kind of friendly hug that my late husband’s friend gives me-an arm around the shoulders-would be done in such a way that one would wonder when the hand was going to go further down, even if it never did.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  15th October 2016

      Who knows, Kitty. I certainly don’t. In a lifetime a man’s proclivities and opportunities may vary considerably I expect as may female interest in him. The nuances of human sexual interaction are infinitely varied.

      Reply
  14. patupaiarehe

     /  15th October 2016

    Reply
  15. Joe Bloggs

     /  15th October 2016

    One of the biggest ironies here is that it will likely be the women’s vote that decides whether Trump wins or loses.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  15th October 2016

      The level of irony may depend on the result of the Clinton presidency it produces.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  15th October 2016

        They’ve mentioned several times on Aljaz news items lately that there are more women than men voters in the US. Nobody has said why that is. Curious though.

        Hey, you know how the yanks like to combine parts of couples’ names – like Kimye, Tomkat etc – I’ve decided to call this couple of presidential candidates CLUMP.

        Reply
    • Klik Bate

       /  15th October 2016

      Facebook has been sending out regular reminders to users in the US, that they need to register in order to vote. They say they will continue to do so right up until a week before the election. Some States have already recorded the largest number of voter registrations ever.

      When you consider that most time-wasting Facebook users are over 60% female, there is no doubt WHO will decide the outcome!

      Reply

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