Trump on full term abortions

Donald Trump has made many preposterous claims in his campaign. Some of his most troubling and ridiculous came out in the third and final presidential debate, on abortion.

Trump said he would make Supreme Court appointments that would overturn Row v. Wade.

Donald Trump’s Supreme Court Would Overturn Roe v. Wade

Donald Trump said during the third presidential debate Wednesday night that his Supreme Court would overturn Roe v. Wade, the landmark 1973 abortion rights decision that protects a woman’s right to end her pregnancy until the fetus is viable outside the womb. 

“If we put another two or perhaps three justices on, that will happen,” the Republican nominee said. “That will happen automatically in my opinion, because I am putting pro-life justices on the court.” 

Openly saying he would stack the Supreme Court must be a concern.

Trump also pandered to conservatives but annoyed votes he desperately needs to pick up on his Supreme Court comment.

Trump saying he will appoint SCOTUS justices to overturn Roe v. Wade caused his numbers with independents to tank.

📉

More from Huffington:

Trump said earlier this year that if abortion were illegal, women should “face some sort of punishment” for having one. When Clinton criticized him for that comment in the debate Wednesday night, Trump fired back with the misleading claim that Clinton supports abortions “on the final day” of pregnancy.

“If you go with what Hillary is saying, in the ninth month, you can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb of the mother,” Trump said. “Just prior to the birth of the baby. You can say that that’s OK, and Hillary can say that that’s OK, but it’s not OK with me.”

“Because based on what she’s saying and based on where she’s going and where she’s been, you can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month, on the final day. And that’s not acceptable.”

Birth happens on the final day. It is ludicrous to suggest that babies are ripped out at all let alone aborted at full term.

90 percent of abortions take place in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a research group that supports abortion rights.

Dr Jennifer Gunter at Huffington Post: Donald Trump Confuses Birth With Abortion. And No, There Are No Ninth Month Abortions

To put it in perspective, 1.3 percent of abortions happen at or after 21 weeks and 80 percent are for birth defects.

Put another way, 1 percent of abortions that are at or after 21 weeks and are for birth defects and 0.3 percent of abortions are at or after 21 weeks and are not for birth defects (some of these will be health of the mother and a very few will be for other indications).

Birth Defects

This could range from Down syndrome to anomalies incompatible with life. The generally accepted limit of viability is 24 weeks.

After 24 weeks, birth defects that lead to abortion are very severe and typically considered incompatible with life. These procedures are either a traditional induction, just like labor, or something that requires instrumentation. Because of the nonsensical partial birth abortion law women who wish to have a dilation and extraction (a modified technique for more advanced procedures) need to have fetal cardiac activity stopped with an injection into the uterus. Either way, it’s a two or three (or even four) day process to get the cervix to dilate enough.

The further along in the pregnancy, the more likely the procedure will be an induction of labor. But a skilled practitioner can do a dilation and extraction at 32 or 34 weeks. I’ve never heard of a dilation and extraction for any other reason than severe birth defects, and often, it is for a woman who has had two or three c-sections for whom inducing labor might pose other health hazards, like uterine rupture. Are we to force women to have c-sections for a pregnancy that is not compatible with life?

Other

Some of the 0.3 percent of abortions after 21 weeks will be for personal reasons. Often these are called elective abortions, but I don’t like that term. Usually this happens when it took too long to find a clinic and raise the money. These abortions happen before 24 weeks. There is no ninth month action here either.

The Facts

There are no ninth month abortions. Really. A ninth month abortion is a unicorn and so it’s ridiculous to even discuss it. Terminations after 24 weeks are for severe fetal anomalies.

 

 

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26 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  21st October 2016

    Yes, I think this position was far more devastating for Trump than the fuss about accepting the election result.

    Reply
    • It highlights either extreme ignorance, or deliberate gross misrepresentation.

      And it won’t help him gain ground where he needs it, from independent voters, especially women.

      Reply
      • Bill

         /  21st October 2016

        Is this really an issue of Trumps making, or a position expected of a republican candidate.
        I personally feel this is not an issue for governments but it has a long tradition in American politics.

        Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  21st October 2016

      far more devastating and revealing as well – despite all his bluff and bluster about no-one respecting women more than him he wants to totally control what they do with their bodies…

      Domestic violence is all about controlling women’s bodies, and I’ve said it before that Trump exhibits all of the characteristics of an abuser personality.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  21st October 2016

        Trump exhibits “all of the characteristics of an abuser personality”?

        You mean he’s an ignorant bloody idiot?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  21st October 2016

          Maybe, on the abortion issue, or maybe he’s just targeting the anti-abortion voters with a wilfully dishonest misrepresentation of her position, & the true situation, as outlined in PG’s post. I was surprised she didn’t say as much before going on to support Roe vs Wade.

          Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  21st October 2016

        Pretty sure this position results from expediency rather than belief. He was reportedly losing the Catholic vote and this is to shore it up. But it must lose him most independent votes as Luntz highlights. Clinton will be happy with this outcome.

        Reply
        • Bill

           /  21st October 2016

          It’s been a pretty split when it comes to the issue of abortion rights and presidents.
          Pro life presidents
          Jimmy Carter
          Ronald Reagan
          George H.W Bush
          George W. Bush

          Pro Life Vice Presidents
          Hubert Humphrey
          Dan Quayle
          Dick Cheney

          Pro Choice Presidents
          Richard Nixon
          Gerald Ford
          Bill Clinton
          Barack Obama

          Pro Choice Vice Presidents
          Nelson Rockefeller
          Walter Mondale
          Al Gore
          Joseph Biden

          Reply
        • Joe Bloggs

           /  21st October 2016

          Pretty sure this position results from expediency rather than belief

          Translation: he says whatever the fuck he thinks people want to hear rather than what he believes.

          Synonyms: manipulative, narcissistic, toxic, dishonest

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  21st October 2016

            Pragmatic?

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  21st October 2016

              I am pro-life. It’s not just a woman’s body, it’s the baby’s body as well.

              BUT his ideas are just rubbish, a gross distortion. Who would bother to kill the baby when it’s being born anyway ? What would the point be ? The only time that anything like the late abortion (I can’t remember the proper term) thing is done is when severe birth defects mean that the poor baby will die anyway (has no brain or something like that) or when there is some really extreme medical emergency. I remember when this issue was first raised, and even a passionate pro-lifer like me was reassured when we heard that the melodramatic vision of babies being killed in/at birth was urban myth.

              His crazy line does the Pro Life movement no favours.

              No wonder HC said nothing, she would know that he was having the opposite effect to what he intended and was playing into the hands of those who believe that aborting babies is acceptable.

              I know a woman who is passionately pro-life, and who puts her money (what there is of it) where her mouth is. Having raised 10 of her own, she
              might well have considered that her child-rearing days were done, but not she. The house still has children and babies in it and I know that M——- has taken in ones who would have been aborted had she not pledged to look after them if the mother felt that she couldn’t have the baby herself. I would say that even if she had to have them sleeping in fruitboxes and drawers, she would turn no baby away from her house.

              Next DT will be repeating the garbled urban myths about organ harvesters going into abortion clinics and persuading the women not to kill the babies then but to wait until they were full term and do it then for money so that the organs/stemcells/whatever could be sold on. I have heard this told as a true story, happening in the US. Nobody explains why the clinics don’t notice or don’t mind that their clients are being recruited by people walking in to take away the abortionists’ business.

              What a vile way to earn a living, working in an abortion clinic.

            • Bill

               /  21st October 2016

              I agree Alan, the alternative is often far worse for mother and child even if the mechanics of it can be seen as vile, or any other descriptive words one chooses to use.

              This stance from Trump won’t sit well with many, but its been a polarizing issue of all American elections in modern times.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  21st October 2016

              It’s still taking life.

              HC probably thought that it would be 1000x more effective to let this loony statement speak for itself. The people who believe it will, of course, but anyone with any sense won’t-they would know that it couldn’t be true.

  2. lurcher1948

     /  21st October 2016

    But wait,the right who post here and elsewhere thinks the sun shines out of his arse and he can do no wrong…just saying.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  21st October 2016

      Just sayin, Lurchy. we don’t think the sun shines out of Trumpy’s arse. We just think Hillary’s arse-light isn’t as bright, and is accompanied by a far more malevolent odour.

      Worse, according to an astrologer on the radio…her Neptune is afflicted during November.
      While Trumpy has a strong Neptune rising during the same PERIOD.

      Trumpy, make America great again.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  21st October 2016

        Trump’s arselight must be what’s made his face go that colour. His mouth is so seldom closed that the light must be on almost all the time.

        Someone was seriously wondering what would happen if HC was President…every month at ‘that time of the month.’ Not a real worry at her age, I imagine, but a worry that an adult man would think that it would be still relevant to a woman of over 60.

        I do tire of Americans saying how great the country is, but not saying why-just that it is. Aren’t other people supposed to say that about you ?

        Reply
    • Bill

       /  21st October 2016

      You don’t have to think Trumps a great guy, to see what’s wrong with the Clinton machine.
      The fact that our own media has now shown it is unable to look behind the media hype and is participating 100% for the Clinton camp, should be more worrying than who wins the election.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  21st October 2016

        People here have boasted about vote-rigging and how they have voted in every booth in the electorate (the more fools they), bought votes from friends and family, stolen voting papers and filled them all out themselves…..

        Does it work ? No.

        Reply
        • Bill

           /  21st October 2016

          Yeah Kitty, but so you know I didn’t post the vid in support of Trump, but to show how vile, out of control and divisive this race has become.The paying of mentally ill people to fight at rallies, isn’t something to be applauded.

          I just think views many express when taking sides on the up coming election are based largely on political spin, maybe more than we’ve ever seen before.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  21st October 2016

            Oh dear, I meant people in NZ-not YNZ ! It has been raised before, and I meant ‘here’ in that context, not as in this blog. At the last election a few people were publicly boasting about it, inc. one on Facebook who didn’t realise that the police have computers and so do the Electoral Commission.

            The paying barmy people to fight has been debunked, it didn’t happen. The Trump statement that they were is pure fantasy. HE may have done this, of course, but investigation has disproved that she did not. It would be very counter-productive when it came out and wouldn’t be worth it. What would be the point ? Where does one recruit loonies to fight ? What if they just take the money and run ? They’d just be removed and arrested. Anyone loony enough to take the offer really would be a loony.

            Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  21st October 2016

          Four people think that it did work and change the election results ?

          Dream on. How could it possibly ? Even stealing the papers wouldn’t work, you’d need thousands & thousands of them and couldn’t possibly get away with it. The same person turning up over and over with a different name and expecting that nobody will notice would be a real optimist. If the real people had already voted, and the fraudster wouldn’t know if they had, the new voter who tried to vote as them would be explaining themselves to the police. I forget what the penalty is, but it’s very severe from what I remember.

          Reply
  3. My family went through this dilemma. At almost full term, our doctors determined that my first grandson did not have a viable brain. My daughter and her husband decided to accept the recommendation of the Doctor and the son’s life was terminated about teo months from full term. I have absolutely no problems with the termination process, as it was the mother who made the decision. I just hope that people realise the strength of such an emotional decision. When you publically debate such matters people, remember you may be affecting others who have had to deal with the problem, and perhaps display a little humanity?

    Reply
  4. Two, not teo!

    Reply
  5. Mary Rhine

     /  25th January 2020

    Unicorns are real apparently because New York will let you have a full term abortion as disgusting and immoral as it is . Is it still ridiculous to discuss? What is the human race becoming? What are women becoming?

    Reply

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