Open Forum – Friday

11 November 2016

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.
  • Debate hard if you like but respect people’s right to have varying views and to not be personally be attacked.
  • Don’t say to a stranger online anything you wouldn’t say to their face.

Moderation will be minimal if these guidelines are followed. Should they ever be necessary any moderator edits, deletes or bans will be clearly and openly advised unless obviously malicious from anyone breaching site protocols, or spam.

Leave a comment

36 Comments

  1. “The men and women who have tried to bury the legacy of Seddon and Savage have done so because they are ashamed. Ashamed of the wounds they have inflicted on a country so many seekers after justice and equality travelled so far to create. Ashamed, too, because in this historically uncluttered paradise, the cruelties of economic exploitation and social injustice are not so easily hidden as in landscapes overburdened with the debris of violent centuries. Their long struggle, from Edward Gibbon Wakefield to Ruth Richardson, has been to make our New World as much like the Old World as possible. Unlike those who arrived here determined to shake off the shackles of class, creed and ethnicity, they struggle to keep tight the ties that bind.

    Our forebears took pride in being told how different New Zealand was from the rest of the world, but today we are taught to regard the beliefs they fought for, and the institutions they worked so hard to build, as useless junk from the nation’s attic – fit only for history’s rubbish heap. But those who have piled stones upon the grave of our progressive traditions have failed to silence the shouts for justice. And they always will fail. Because to be a New Zealander is to be a seeker, and a builder, and a fighter. Not for wealth and power, but for the chance to begin again, in a new place, and with a new purpose.”

    – Chris Trotter, ‘No Left Turn’, epilogue “In the running straits of history”

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  11th November 2016

      When ‘progressive’ really stands for ”regressive’……….

      Reply
      • That shame at having fowled and ultimately wrecked the nest our parents built for us and their grandchildren is one thing the market ain’t gonna fix PDB …

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  11th November 2016

          I was under the impression that, to a large extent, the early settlers were trying to create a new England-look at the names, the system of government, the laws, the retention of the Royal Family….

          CT’s article is so vague that it can be neither proved nor disproved.

          Reply
  2. PDB

     /  11th November 2016

    I thought the left were complaining that our parents have built such a large nest it means following generations can’t afford to have their own & must instead live in half an egg shell?

    Reply
    • Not how I read it PDB … The ‘Left’ as you call them … the decent folk … are complaining that some of us … the worst of the Baby Boomer ‘Me’ generation … ‘one dimensional man’, profits over people … We stripped our parents’ nest so threadbare getting ‘rich’ [Richwhite] our own children can’t afford one of their own …

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  11th November 2016

        One of PZ’s ‘decent folk’…..

        Reply
        • I don’t know who that is PDB, but presumably putting his photo up holds some prurient fascination for you …?

          There’s good and bad in every political movement. Look at Christian Heritage and Graham Capill? Arguably there’s good and bad in every person …

          But seldom have a group of people like the Treasury officials, Rogergnomes and Ruthanasers of 1984 – 95 set out to actively dismantle the social fabric of their own nation … and largely for their own personal gain …

          Reply
          • PDB

             /  11th November 2016

            If Rogernomics hadn’t come along there wouldn’t have been a nation left…….the country under Muldoon was an economic disaster by 1984

            Reply
            • You purchased that *CROC* hook, line and sinker eh PDB? What you actually mean is you were told it was an economic disaster – by a newly elected Labour [workers, Lefties, unions] government – and you believed it …

              “The principal economic guardians of New Zealand’s capitalist state moved from the defensive to the offensive. Rather than find ways to resist the efforts of a political party intent on reforming the system in ways they considered dangerous, they co-opted a political party and used it to refashion New Zealand society in accordance with the new economic and social orthodoxies being communicated to them from Washington and London. This was a revolution from the top down – a bureaucratic [Treasury] coup d’etat.

              The ‘post election crisis’ was precipitated by a single sheet of paper ‘inadvertently’ released by Roger Douglas in the early stages of the 1984 election campaign …. devaluation … a figure of 20 percent was mentioned … the outflow continued. By the final week more than $120 million a day … converted to greenbacks, pounds, francs, yen. All the holders had to do was wait … and reconvert into a pile of NZ dollars 20 percent higher … ”

              “Was it a set-up?” asks Chris Trotter, but then he shies away from saying it was … “so many of the key players are still alive” …

              Things needed to change, certainly, but did we change them “The Kiwi Way”? We sure as fucking hell did not. The ‘crisis’ was our ‘shock’ [doctrine], followed by a simultaneous ‘pincer movement’ of appeasement via ‘social change’ … nuclear free, a women’s ministry, pay equity, Waitangi Tribunal extension, homosexual law reform etc etc … and the hard reality of ‘essential’ economic reform and ‘deregulation’ … TINA … actually TINAA … There Is No ACCEPTABLE Alternative …

              “At the same time, and with breathtaking … dispatch, the nation’s entire economic edifice, constructed since the late 1880s by the blood, sweat and tears of generations of progressive New Zealanders, would be dismantled … the demolition of Nash’s full-employment economy and Savage’s cradle-to-grave welfare state.”

            • Meanwhile, for 30+ years, several Scandanavian nations have proved beyond doubt there were and are alternative ways …

              We got Rogered … Right Royally … and then Ruthanased …

            • PDB

               /  11th November 2016

              You’re sounding more like Ugly truth every day PZ……..the changes were necessary and the proof is in the fact that we are here today and thriving economically. The only ‘proof’ you seem to have is some sort of ‘idealistic’ view of New Zealand (shared by Trotter) meandering along like it was 1960 or something, minding our own business & ignoring the global economy even though we are an isolated nation at the bottom of the world.

  3. lurcher1948

     /  11th November 2016

    TRUMP lesson 101 the future from America, watch and do…

    Reply
  4. lurcher1948

     /  11th November 2016

    TRUMP lesson 102, this is the worse the orange freak threatened TORTURE the USA in the very near future…PS trump HAS threatened to do this…

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  11th November 2016

      What is torturous Lurch is your posts………

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  11th November 2016

      There’s nothing wrong with a good waterboarding if needed. Not great to watch in real life, but very effective. That automatic reflex to breath, followed by the gag reflex puts stupendous stress on the body. Any physical weakness is found out quickly. Ah, Lurchy. The fun I could have with you if we lived in a truly free society.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  11th November 2016

        Corky you’re beginning to sound very disturbed. Are you on any medication? 😕

        Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  11th November 2016

        I take it corky that you are a 15 yo with pimples hunched over your keyboard sounding frightfully tough because you feel hurt due to female rejection,…just saying

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  11th November 2016

          lurch my dear old thing. Sometimes you let the mask drop and start to sound less like a retired printers assistant and more like another guy who blows through here from time to time. Cheers,c

          Reply
          • lurcher1948

             /  11th November 2016

            Yes threats of torture and calling me a printers assistant (i won a pride in print medal for the best printing job in NZ in a certain major printing field) is ok but corking has free reign to go after me, well i have broad shoulders and can handle the personal abuse,give and take im a man…..unlike

            Reply
        • Corky

           /  11th November 2016

          You’re quite right. My comments were pathetic. Just like your postings. I was tactfully trying to show you that. That you can call me on my postings means you have the intelligence to work out your own failings.

          Reply
          • lurcher1948

             /  11th November 2016

            Corky i was scratching my head and my butt trying to absorb your post and i thought there could be others struggling with your post like as follows…

            Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  11th November 2016

        [No. PG]

        Reply
  5. PZ, I for one would be interested inn you identifying the Scandinavian countries you hold up as examples to be followed?

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  11th November 2016

      Probably Norway which is rich because of its massive oil reserves that PZ would also be against utilising……

      Reply
      • Well NZ possibly could be oil rich except for Labour dominated local bodies passing motions against off-shore drilling. I have Norwegian family and their lives are not utopian, but feel free to migrate.

        Reply
  6. If you can excuse the language this guy makes some really good points about why Trump won 🙂
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1044777035645189&id=796085293847699

    Reply
    • That’s very good, direct, and ‘saying it like it is’ far better than I’ve ever seen Trump doing it.

      What’s the chance of the lefties taking that on board? Will it take another Trump? Another Brexit? Or are they stuffed.

      Reply
      • Hard to say. So many commentators still bewildered that they got it so wrong. Only saw what they wanted to see.

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  11th November 2016

        I think the liberal media are stuffed. They are clearly bewildered and they just seem incapable of understanding what motivates people

        Reply
  7. lurcher1948

     /  11th November 2016

    Keep the orange man alive as the VP is a total scary nutter.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s