Open Forum – Tuesday

22 November 2016

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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22 Comments

  1. Klik Bate

     /  22nd November 2016

    NU ZILIND – but not as we know it 😡

    At least ‘Bishop Brian’ is good for a laugh! But this type of crap? MEH, not so much.

    But at least Dame Susan Devoy is ‘looking into it’…….that should fix it

    Reply
    • And yet this Kiwi FrontLine crap passes muster somehow …

      http://www.kiwifrontline.com/home

      Introduced diseases minimized:
      http://www.kiwifrontline.com/enlightenments/introduced-diseases

      female infanticide promoted, on-page as “daughter slaughter” :
      http://www.kiwifrontline.com/enlightenments/female-infanticide

      And all the rest … Maori genocide: Musket Wars … using pakeha muskets …

      Treatygate Con: http://www.kiwifrontline.com/enlightenments/the-treatygate-con

      We don’t find this “offensive or insulting”, “totally inappropriate … or unequivocally condemn any divisive comments of a similar nature”. Well, actually … I do.

      Presumably KFL is only researching history and putting forward an alternative viewpoint based on facts and anecdotal evidence? Exercising their right to freedom of speech?

      Bit of a double-bind here. I can’t really speak about this further without appearing to support the Iman, which I certainly DO NOT. There is unnecessary invective in his sermonising, focused on Jewry. However, by contrast, its very similar to the kind of thing we see TO SOME EXTENT in political electioneering … sometimes regarding Muslims … The simplistic ‘quasi-human’ way of rallying any group is to have a common enemy … I don’t hear the Iman actually inciting violence … [in at least three different speeches] …

      Well, I’ve had a little look at history, and in the same general sense, I find plenty of factual and anecdotal evidence that Imperial Christianity’s [at least] “protocol is to rule the entire world”. I find 100 million people killed, mostly murdered, in the colonisation of the Americas, 60 million dead from slavery – putting even Hitler’s death camps, Stalin’s gulags, Mao’s ‘revolutions’ and Pol Pots ‘Year Zero’ to shame – and 10 million Congolese dead from just 20 years of Belgian resource exploitation in their African ‘colony’ under Leopold II … I find Imperial Christian Resource & Market Wars which have devastated and are devastating whole regions of the Earth … like the Middle East … killing millions …

      Personally, I also find much that is dubious about the establishment and operation of the Zionist State of Israel.

      That’s what these things look like to me … Am I not allowed to say so?

      I might ask Dame Susan to give her opinion on Kiwi FrontLine … ?
      I wonder if anyone has done so already …?

      Reply
      • Klik Bate

         /  22nd November 2016

        You must admit though PZ, they’ve got a great Anthem ❗

        Reply
        • Rousing stuff Klik … the very essence of music-lite as propaganda … and sung more in an Aussie accent than a Kiwi one …

          I wonder if all the people shown agreed to have their images included in this clip? And then to have it promote the anti-race-based, racist enabling Kiwi FrontLine website?

          Might be some interesting copyright issues to be explored there …?

          Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd November 2016

        I read a couple of pages of that website and the material seems well-documented and objective. Is there something factually wrong that you have identified, PZ, or do you just not like those facts?

        Reply
        • Oh Alan, I don’t have time to even begin to answer that question …

          “Daughter Slaughter” is well-documented and objectively researched, do you reckon?
          I’ve previously posted well researched evidence and opinion by several reknowned historians which contradicts and negates KFL’s insulting distortion of ‘history’ …

          Item 1 – Te Tiriti o Waitangi was written and understood by the Chiefs, in te reo Maori, who had no concept of ‘sovereignty’ as ‘The Crown’ understood it, and consequently did not cede sovereignty to the Crown. The Maori language doesn’t include a word for ‘cede’ …

          Reply
        • THIS is objective, “Maori supremacists and their European sycophants parrot the generalisation that ‘atrocities’ were committed on Maori people during the colonisation period. Pre-1840 were savage and lawless times …” – KFL ‘Atrocities’

          Followed by a list of ‘Maori atrocities’ including …

          3. The killing of twelve helpless captives at the Wairau in 1843, – ‘Twisting the Treaty’ page 126

          Firstly, Is there a small but significant discrepancy here? The Wairau Incident happened in 1843! Three years after Te Tiriti and the “pre-1840 times”, which KFL are surely alluding to being something other than colonisation times?

          Next, here’s other viewpoints on the incident, much more balanced IMO

          http://www.theprow.org.nz/maori/wairau-affray/
          http://www.theprow.org.nz/maori/te-rauparahas-account/
          and
          http://nzhistory.govt.nz/wairau-incident
          http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/1966/wairau-affray

          “Governor Fitzroy who arrived in New Zealand in December 1843 investigated the Wairau Affray and exonerated Te Rauparaha and Te Rangihaeata. When Spain sat in Nelson in 1844 he declared that the Wairau had not been sold [to the New Zealand Company]” – The Prow

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  22nd November 2016

            That quote doesn’t appear on any of the pages you previously linked or that I read as far as I can see so I presume you have struggled to find something factually incorrect on those.

            As for the Wairau massacre of disarmed prisoners your link scarcely defends it: http://nzhistory.govt.nz/wairau-incident – and on that page it is merely one of eleven incidents.

            Reply
            • My quote certainly does appear at the bottom of THe Prow ‘Wairau Affray’ page –

              http://www.theprow.org.nz/maori/wairau-affray/

              Chris Trotter begins ‘No Left Turn’ with a brilliant analysis of The Wairau Incident in Chapter 1 – ‘E.G. Wakefield’s wicked dream’.

              One of eleven incidents on KFL’s ‘Atrocities’ page? Yes …. NINE of them post-1840 … despite the page ostensibly being about “pre 1840 … savage and lawless times” … ALL of them a simplistic, one-sided ‘White’ view …

              No mention of John Bryce’s cavalry charge on defenseless teenage boys at Handley’s Woolshed, a “heroic” ‘action’ in which he cleaved one lad’s head to the shoulders with his sabre …

              Perhaps they were savage and lawless times because of pakeha!?

              The KFL people are unwell Alan … like Von Mises and Rothbard …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd November 2016

              I was referring to your lead-in quote: “Maori supremacists …”

              The Atrocities page refers to the colonisation period which was obviously largely post-1940. The pre-1840 comment was an aside. It doesn’t purport to list atrocities committed by the colonists and it is obviously putting a case rather than adjudicating one. That doesn’t make it “unwell” or incorrect.

            • Well, when I go on KFL, which nearly makes me retch, and select ‘atrocities’ I get this text heading the page –

              “Maori supremacists and their European sycophants parrot the generalisation that ‘atrocities’ were committed on Maori people during the colonisation period. Pre 1840 were savage and lawless times.

              It is left up to readers to decide which culture committed the most atrocities.”

              So they want to base ‘adjudication’ on which culture committed the most atrocities? How very mature of them …

              How very mature of a qualified medical doctor to write a book claiming, amongst other things, that the only two factors in Maori population decline 1800 – 1920 were “Maori Genocide” [changed very recently I think to] “Maori Holocaust against Maori” and “Daughter Slaughter” …

              http://www.kiwifrontline.com/enlightenments/female-infanticide

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd November 2016

              John Robinson is not a medical researcher. His resume is quite impressive and I would expect reasonable scientific rigour and objectivity from him. Neither is he a raging right-winger as you can see from his publication list:

              https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/johnrob

            • Yes, I must apologize to John Robinson for the medical reference. I got him mixed up with someone else of the same name in a search. My mistake …

              Regardless of his publication list, some of which sounds very interesting and I’d like to read, I find his alignment with KFL as biased, disreputable and repugnant as you probably find Chris Trotter’s proclivities and leanings …

              “Daughter Slaughter”? Really!? From someone with a PhD from MIT!?

              Sets alarm bells ringing in my ears straight away …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd November 2016

              John Robinson is a common name. It took me a while to find the right bio for this one.

              I don’t find Trotter disreputable and I used to respect his writing and find it insightful but now find it sadly lacking much more often than not.

              “Daughter Slaughter” is just a catchy name for female infanticide by mothers which is what he is reporting. I don’t see why it is incompatible with his qualifications since he is writing for the general public and not an academic publication. Whatever.

            • I don’t think he’s writing for the general public. I think he’s writing for the ‘Right Brigade’.

  2. patupaiarehe

     /  22nd November 2016

    Ka kite y’all, I’m tired, not retired…

    Reply

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