Debating Castro’s legacy

There have been contrasting responses to the news of the death of Fidel Castro. A hero who stood up to the US, or a brutal dictator? Both.

Wikipedia:

Castro is a controversial and divisive world figure.

He is decorated with various international awards, and his supporters laud him as a champion of socialism and anti-imperialism whose revolutionary regime secured Cuba’s independence from American imperialism.

Conversely, critics view him as a totalitarian dictator whose administration oversaw multiple human-rights abuses, an exodus of more than one million Cubans, and the impoverishment of the country’s economy.

Through his actions and his writings he has significantly influenced the politics of various individuals and groups across the world.

In Browning can’t understand why Cuban exiles are celebrating Castro’s death David Farrar points out  a Facebook comment of Green MP Stefan Browning.

I’m saddened by the death of Fidel Castro. He represented so significantly the battle against the worst of the forces of capitalist greed and the tyranny of oppression by the USA industrial military complex. Cuba has problems but its achievements and humanitarian reach have been significant too, especially considering the blockades and measures against it. I was disappointed by this Stuff announcement that has so much about those celebrating Fidel’s passing, when millions will be mourning.

Fans of socialism have turned a blind eye to some appalling un-democratic, authoritarian and brutal leaders.

Farrar comments:

I’m saddened by the fact an MP who has never had to live under an authoritarian dictatorship praises it so much and can’t understand who the hundreds of thousands who actually lived under it despised it.

Castro imprisoned gays, killed political opponents, tortured prisoners, censored the Internet, banned trade unions, made strikes illegal etc etc. But because he was an enemey of the US, Browning thinks he was a great guy.

Browning is attracting huge negative feedback on his Facebook page for his tears of sadness at the death of an authoritarian dictator.

Even on the left there has been a very mixed reaction to Castro’s death.

The Standard: Fidel Castro has died

Cuba is a unique place with some weaknesses and problems but with other features that are outstanding.

RIP Fidel Castro.

That was under the authorship of ‘Notices and Features’ so someone chose not to put their own name to it. There was some support and also harsh criticism of Castro’s legacy.

Martyn Bradbury: Rest in Revolution Fidel Castro

2016 has been a shit year, and it continues to find ways to keep killing off all my heroes, this time 2016 has managed to wrestle life from the Godfather of the Revolution, Fidel Castro…

…and the World lost an idea that common people could join together and fight the forces of Capitalism with weapons if need be.

A revolutionary hero just turned up at the pearly gates demanding a meeting with the workers – Rest in Revolution Fidel.

That must be the workers Castro didn’t torture or murder. It’s odd that Bradbury should suggest castro has arrived at the ‘pearly gates’ when thought that religious beliefs were backward and viewed the Roman Catholic church as ” a reactionary, pro-capitalist institution” (however Castro ended up organising a visit to Cuba by the Pope in 1998).

Is a Castro type revolution what Bradbury keeps trying to talk up for New Zealand?

Comments at The Daily Blog were also a mix of praise and condemnation.

 

 

 

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88 Comments

  1. Conspiratoor

     /  28th November 2016

    How is it possible to put a positive spin on a regime where more than 10% of the population is prepared to risk their lives to flee to a better place?

    Reply
    • How many people have emigrated from New Zealand?

      In 2013 there were about 480,000 New Zealand born people living in Australia alone, and that’s about 10% of our current population.

      http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/kiwis-overseas/page-4

      Reply
      • Anonymous Coward

         /  28th November 2016

        But how many of them braved drowning and sharks to get there on a cobbled together raft. And how many died on the way? I’m going to say none.
        It’s not in where you go, it’s how desperate you are to leave.

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  28th November 2016

        Disingenuous pg. Kiwis emigrating to oz walk through an open door. Cubans ’emigrating’ to the usa jump into the sea in a variety of flimsy craft

        Reply
    • PDB

       /  28th November 2016

      Either left-wing ‘hypocrisy’ or ‘the end justifies the means’ – take your pick.

      We see this all too often when gay/woman’s rights are ignored by the left in countries they support, often for the sole reason that the country in question in anti-USA.

      Castro systematically organised the killing & imprisonment (with hard labour) of thousands of his own people without the opportunity of a fair trial and for no reason at all but because he felt like it or didn’t like the look of them. To fob that off as just a ‘part of revolution’ doesn’t wash considering these killings & imprisonments occurred for decades.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/fidel-castro-dies-dead-cuba-dictator-communism-human-rights-abuses-executions-freedoms-censorship-a7440636.html

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      ask yourself why people emigrate…(to better themselves)…apparantly things aren’t good in Afghanistan,Iraq,Syria,many African states….who is responsible for conditions there?We know the U.S tried to cripple Cuba and punish cubans with decades of sanctions.

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  28th November 2016

        So two wrongs make a right? Forget the USA for a minute and judge Castro purely on his own accord. Castro had an opportunity to help his own people but ironically himself became the very same capitalist & suppressor he was supposed to have overthrown.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th November 2016

          Because as head of state he didn’t live like a …pauper?He was a survivor and a winner against the odds.His people loved him,thats the measure.

          Reply
          • PDB

             /  28th November 2016

            His people loved him? Really??

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  28th November 2016

            His people couldn’t question his policies or his politics without fear or punishment, though. That’s another measure.

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  28th November 2016

              The Chinese ‘people’ still ‘love’ Mao even though he was the biggest mass murderer of his own people the world has ever seen. Systematically being brainwashed into loving your oppressor isn’t true love.

          • His people loved him? Like this?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              ‘Systematically being brainwashed into loving your oppressor isn’t true love.’….well if people can be systematically brainwashed’…they will clearly believe …anything!

            • Corky

               /  28th November 2016

              Great work if you can get it. Good to see Dear Leader standing. Usually he’s suffering from gout. Isn’t that a rich man’s disease? Must all that fine Western food. Lucky his people, some whom eat grass, won’t have that problem. Poor girls, this will probably be the highlight of their lives…touching a murderous thug.

            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              @Corky…no gout is not a rich mans disease.Are Blair and Bush murderous thugs?

            • Corky

               /  28th November 2016

              Are Blair and Bush murderous thugs? Of course not. They are on our side.

          • Goldie

             /  28th November 2016

            Blazer: “His people loved him,thats the measure.”
            At the risk of invoking Godwin’s law, Germans loved Hitler too. I suppose that makes him OK with Blazer?

            Of course, the fact that a large proportion of Cuba’s population were desperate to escape is an inconvenient fact for Blazer.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              Hitler was popular ,had a Trump like platform.The people who finance war,financed him too.They care not about loss of life ,only profit.Lending to governments has been the best game in town ,since Waterloo.Not surprising people that want to escape to greener pastures,thats human nature.The U.S sanctions crippled the Cuban economy…bullying,vengeful and uncalled for.

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  28th November 2016

        Do refugees emigrate?

        Reply
  2. Brown

     /  28th November 2016

    He made a fortune while treating the people at large as cattle to be abused as he saw fit. Great communist, shitty human being. Good riddance.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      Since WW2 millions have been killed in the name of profits/capitalism.Workers are exploited like cattle everyday,all around the world.Cuba became a world leader in health and education,despite decades of crippling sanctions.

      Reply
    • PDB

       /  28th November 2016

      There is similarities between the outpouring of grief from the left in Castro’s passing & the beating of a pathway to Dotcoms money by the left wing in our last general election.

      “The former bodyguard says Castro sailed to the island on his luxury yacht, the Aquarama II, fitted out with rare Angolan wood and powered by four motors sent by the Soviet president Leonid Brezhnev. “Castro would sit in his large black leather director’s armchair … a glass of Chivas Regal on the rocks (his favourite drink) in his hand,” writes Sánchez.
      Other presidential properties, he writes, included an “immense” estate in Havana complete with rooftop bowling alley, basketball court and fully equipped medical centre, and a luxury bungalow with private marina on the coast.”.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/21/fidel-castro-lived-like-king-cuba

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  28th November 2016

        what are the ‘similarities’?

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  28th November 2016

        Just be listening to quotes from this bodyguards book on the Radio. Poor naive Cubans thought he lived in a simple fisherman’s hut on the coast.

        Its a similar story with communist and socialist leaders globally..they don’t live or believe in the philosophy they tout. Or, more correctly, they believe only until they gain power see the fabulous wealth and possibilities only capitalism can provide. And, for the first time in their lousy lives they can partake of. Stuff the millions who will suffer under the bullshit yoke of communism.They will be long forgotten.

        Capitalism is the natural philosophy of goal-oriented human beings. The drudgery and grey shades of life working for a collective, along with goals that are never realised, aren’t.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th November 2016

          where is this form of Capitalism you speak of practised ,where risk=reward,and btw where does ‘money’ come from?

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  28th November 2016

            You’re telling the story. I will listen.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              Capitalism relies on Capital.The ability to create capital ,really a transfer of credit ,is the domain of the militarily dominant power.Any and all attempts to undermine that power,political ,popular or military are met with ‘extreme prejudice’.Herein lies the answer to the world as it is.Who has military might,has its currency as default for international trade and has the most influence?

            • Corky

               /  28th November 2016

              That’s the socialist view:

              http://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-capitalism: Capitalism is the social system which now exists in all countries of the world. Under this system, the means for producing and distributing goods (the land, factories, technology, transport system etc) are owned by a small minority of people. We refer to this group of people as the capitalist class.

              Not quite correct though is it?

              This is more like it:

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets.

              Here’s your problem, Blazer. You tackle this problem from a ” what’s wrong with capitalism point of view.” Most of us accept Capitalism and its derivatives have there faults but its still by far the best economic system for humans. That has been proven time and again. Just ask Cuban and Muslim refugees.

            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              those definitions of Capital agree …a few private owners control capital…i.e a modern feudal system with layers.My problem,if indeed I have one is thinking there must be a better way ,where resources are more evenly allocated,where real merit and democracy,and freedom is in place and not just paid lip service.

        • Not quite true. Che lived simply from what I have read on his life. A true believer. Castro F was more lukewarm on communism until it became obvious he couldn’t paly the Yanks and Ruskies off against other and reap the dividends form both sides…

          Reply
  3. Klik Bate

     /  28th November 2016

    My niece in the US says everyone feels that Obama sending condolences to Fidel Castro is absolutely despicable!

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      what does your niece have to say about U.S interventions in Central America?The heinous murders and abuse of human rights that took place there, are the equal of any .

      Reply
    • Klik Bate

       /  28th November 2016

      As my niece went on to say about the weaselly statement from Obama on the death of the Cuban Dictator, “….it’s about what you’d expect from a leftist admirer”. Sounds like you may well fall into the same boat Blazer.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  28th November 2016

        My cousins, friends local hairdresser says that the trouble with rightist admirers is that they are never balanced or objective,just …deluded.

        Reply
  4. If you dare question Cuba’s lack of freedom or reference the hundreds of political prisoners, you’re either met with replies about sun, rum and the Buena Visit Social Club (music) or omission idealism re high literacy and free healthcare. Plenty of democratic, free Western countries achieve all this and more with free elections and transparent justice. Why is Cuba the beacon of hope. Why is a demogogic despot a symbol of hope? The irony that many, if not most Castro supporters in the West would have been jailed for their outspoken views in Cuba escapes them. As for Trade unionists, heaven help them in particular as all STRIKES are banned.

    To me all that matters is that Cuba is a Castro-dynastic dictatorship with no semblance of democracy. Idealogues in the West, like Laila Harre, and apologists like Justin Trudeau, can rate Castro’s model of authoritarian, dictatorial Communism as much as they like, but the only influence Cuba actually has had on the outside world was from the high value people who fled brought to the world, especially the USA. Oh the irony.

    https://twitter.com/lailaharre
    http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/11/26/statement-prime-minister-canada-death-former-cuban-president-fidel-castro

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      try putting nearby Haiti under the microscope…what Cuba escaped becoming!!!!!

      Reply
      • That’s a pretty low standard of comparison – why Haiti? The idea is to put all countries who abuse their citizens under a microscope. Some things are plain wrong – the Castro family dictatorship presiding over a country with terror and not even nod to democracy is one of them.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th November 2016

          Haiti because as a near neighbour it has many similarities except that the U.S influenced regime change and its leaders at their command.A perfect comparison…there are plenty more basket cases in Latin America that were U.S acolytes…guaranteed.Castro freed the Cubans from slavery.

          Reply
      • That’s my homies!

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  28th November 2016

        Love it posser. The salsa. Cuba’s second gift to the world. Not their best number though. If I get time later I’ll track a better one down and throw it on open forum. Cheers,c

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      meanwhile in Godzone….http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11737537………………..why does Cuba do so much better?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  28th November 2016

        Oh , that’s simple. Cuba overall doesn’t even rate compared to our standard of living. However, as to the child abuse problem, that’s simple. Read- Maori, Islander, large underclass that excuses are made for and help is not provided in case it may offend these people. I wonder how ole Castro would have taken care of our problem, eh Blazer?

        You tell us!

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th November 2016

          I will tell you that a hypotheses is a waste of time.I have outlined the reasoning behind’standards of living’elsewhere.Health and education in Cuba is pretty impressive too though Corky.

          Reply
          • Blazer: “Health and education in Cuba is pretty impressive too though”
            And I am sure he also made the trains run on time.

            Castro was a brutal dictator. Your revisionism shows the moral bankruptcy of so much of the Left wing today.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              Castro as a so called ‘brutal dictator’ is no contest against U.S puppets like Marcos,and the Saudi dynasty to name but 2.

            • PDB

               /  28th November 2016

              So you are arguing that Castro is a top bloke because he wasn’t as bad as someone like Marcos? If anything today you have continually highlighted the hypocrisy of the left-wing.

              Keep digging that hole son, going all the way to China!

            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              ah hypocrisy,and irony 2 words alien to the far right….delicious!

  5. Ray

     /  28th November 2016

    “Is a Castro type revolution what Bradbury keeps trying to talk up for New Zealand”
    Of course Bomber has a dream where he leads The Revolution
    It explains everything you need to know about him
    Beard✅
    Bombastic personified✅
    Not born from the class he claims to represent ✅
    Prepared to speak for 3+ hours to children on the minutiae of the revolution✅
    Happy to lead a glorious revolution where he and his family will allow us (those who survive) live equally ie in poverty ✅

    Reply
  6. David

     /  28th November 2016

    The funnest one I’ve seen so far is The Guardian printing an obituary on Castro by Richard Gott, while failing to mention Richard Gott spent decades in the pay of the KGB.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/26/fidel-castro-obituary

    Reply
  7. Blazer

     /  28th November 2016

    forgetting about who the author of the obituary is,what parts of it do not withstand scrutiny?

    Reply
  8. Back to the serious business. Who’s Justin Trudeau’s Papa?

    Reply
  9. Oh dear false equivalence arguments rolled out by Flicker…via his NZ Herald linked story.

    QUOTE
    “It’s not the black eyes, it’s more children that have had a lack of sleep because there’s been a party going on at home. Or not being picked up on time, or not being brought to school.”

    O’Dowda says the partying and overcrowding put children at risk.

    “We have just done a pubertal change unit with the seniors [Years 6-8, aged about 10-12],” he says.

    “For our girls, their major concern was how do you protect yourself from men, because they know there are parties and there’s lots of people around. So we have now got a two-day self-defence programme coming in this term just for our Year 6-8 girls.”

    UNQUOTE

    And all of that is zero to do with Government and all to do with SCUM parents and relatives putting their base needs ahead of their children. Plenty of poor people out there who sacrifice for their kids. But not the scum referenced in Flickers article [link above].

    As for Castro. He freed his people from a nasty army run regime who sold their own for the yankee dollar. SO started a hero.

    Then he screwed up royally. Alienated the US via confiscations, sponsored foreign war while failing to build a sustainable economy at home and then claimed a working health and education system made up for it all.

    His attitude to his own people was exemplified by his pressing the USSR to start a nuclear war with a first strike from Cuba. Imbecile who would have sacrificed his entire population for an opportunity to kill a few million Americans….. no hero of the people does that.

    He blew his chance to be a true leading light with his neglect of his own people and his inability to negotiate a rapprochement with the West.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      when the supreme power in the world,right next door, imposes sanctions to destroy the Cuban economy,it makes what he did achieve ,quite remarkable.Saw off over 600 assassination attempts,9 U.S Presidents and was lauded by the likes of Mandela as a true patriot and man of conviction.

      Reply
      • Blah, blah, blah… Marxism is the saviour of the people… blah, blah, blah….

        The US imposed sanctions because Fidel and his two committed communist advisors in bro’ Raoul and the Argentine Che chose to alienate the US. There was a path of achieving their goals but not alienating the US if they had chosen to follow it. They chose martyrdom and their people suffered for it.

        Besides which they had all of the Soviet bloc to trade with – and as we all know that could and did provided everything the Cuban economy needed… oh except Soviet tech was shit in terms of what turned up on the Soviets forward base of Cuba.

        Marxism-Leninism failed. Failed spectacularly in Cuba and elsewhere, and who paid??? The people. While Fidel drank his fine imported whiskeys, lived in lovely housing, his people suffered.

        Blame everyone you want Flicker. But he was in control and chose to hurt his people while he avoided the suffering personally.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th November 2016

          I see you would like to reinvent history.The U.S invasion at the Bay of Pigs was repulsed and just as in Vietnam,nasty repurcussions followed…trade sanctions for decades.’Alienating the U.S’ too,too funny.The U.S had regimes in place throughout Latin America however,and not one of them could hold a candle to Cuba.Hey check out Haiti,Panama,Nicaragua,Grenada,El Salvador….you are either stupid or wilfully blind.

          Reply
          • PDB

             /  28th November 2016

            Amnesty International said: “Cuba has always used the excuse of the U.S. embargo and restrictions to crack down on dissidents. Among those persecuted were priests, political opponents and homosexuals”.

            When one echoes the sentiments of the delusional Jeremy Corbyn who claimed ““for all his flaws” Fidel Castro was a social justice hero” you are the only one that looks stupid Blazer – luckily for you that is your usual state and no one here will notice.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              what did amnesty int say about Marcos,Duvalier,M’Boto,Mbasogo,Pinochet,Abdullah….I could go on ..all night.

            • PDB

               /  28th November 2016

              Your argument has now gone to ‘even though Castro was awful I like him because he wasn’t worse than Marcos etc’ – that’s like saying Hitler was a good bloke because Stalin was worse.

              They are all bad Blazer, you only like Castro because he stuck it to the USA which is no excuse or reason for his well documented human rights abuses.

            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              No, your facile arguement is Amnesty said Castro is bad….however we can overlook the really bloodthirsty strongmen that the U.S supported.

            • PDB

               /  28th November 2016

              Hate to break it to you Blazer but the title on this post reads “debating Castro’s legacy’, not somebody else.

            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              well break this to yourself…wtf has Castro’s legacy got to do with Kim Dotcom?

          • Flicker. BoP happened AFTER all US citizens and firms property in Cuba was seized with no compensation. Up until then the US had tried to negotiate with the new Cuban regime but Fidel decided to take their assets and spit in their eye.

            What did you expect of the US? Turn the other check?

            The USSR was on the rise and was looking to acquire a base on the US doorstep. What did you expect the US to just accept that?

            To quote you – you are willfully blind and definitely stupid….

            I like you don’t address any of the critique of Fidel in my post. Might require some honesty from you but that is a forlorn hope…. eh flicker. You just continue your little tanty about the US. Seriously bro’ immigrate to a nice communist country and see how brilliant it really is…

            See you in the new year flicker….. thats enough chatting with you for a month or so..

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              No kidding Dave!So it was quite nice of the U.S to send an invasion force in to try and recover the Mafia’s casinos and to reclaim slavery on the plantations for U.S business.Good Dave,very good,you have been well conditioned ,no doubt by decades of soaking up contoured MSM.

            • Flicker…. sigh you are such a halfwit, its a surprise you don’t bleed to death shaving your armpits….. I must admit though your relentless, monotonous bs is a great cure for insomnia…. Oh look is another Flicker moment… snoreeeeeeeee

            • Blazer

               /  29th November 2016

              so long as its helping WAKE you up Dave!BOL.

  10. Blazer also thinks that Pol Pot was a visionary urban planner, Kim Jong Il did much to prevent North Korea’s obesity epidemic, Mao promoted equality and youth culture, and Stalin established a chain of holiday camps.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      No I think none of those things,but I do know that the so called ‘axis of evil’ refused to become run by the private central bankers cartel.Educate yourself.

      Reply
  11. Conspiratoor

     /  28th November 2016

    Carribean communism vs capitalism. With a social safety net but fewer freedoms, is life better in Cuba than in its capitalist Caribbean neighbours?

    Who is more free: a person who is officially guaranteed free speech and the right to advance in society but is sick, hungry, and frightened of the police, or one who is guaranteed security, education, and basic levels of health and nutrition but must curb his conscience, knows that his life may never improve, and cannot depart to try his luck elsewhere? Which is it worse to deny people: the freedom to nourish their bodies, or the freedom to nourish their minds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/22/cuba-communism-human-rights

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2016

      interesting article..I know which I prefer…and you?

      Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  28th November 2016

        I believe much of the world would be better suited to the Cuban model. Africa, middle east etc. Primitive feudal societies just can’t seem to make democracy work

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  28th November 2016

          democracy is a sham catalyst for exploitation of labour and resources,it is mainly an illusion.So saying imperial forces usually prefer compliant dictatorships ,its easier and profitable.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  28th November 2016

            So what would be better?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              real independent ,democracy with as many interests at the table as possible.

            • Gezza

               /  28th November 2016

              Do you have a model or are you talking about designing something that doesn’t currently exist?

            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              the main problem is the influence of money in elections.Big business has the money to buy politicians.The Donald upset them,but they are pragmatic and will inveigle their way in.NZ has one of the better systems but the Nats are gaming it with dirty tactics,cabinet club and the like.Sovereign banks are the key to democracy imo.Any attempt at that and heads roll unfortunately.

          • Conspiratoor

             /  28th November 2016

            Would you put China in the category of ‘imperial force’? They appear to be doing very well out of their dealings with compliant dictators in Africa and elsewhere

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  28th November 2016

              China uses ‘soft’ diplomacy…they just buy influence.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  28th November 2016

              Interesting. Buying influence with soft diplomacy. I’ll need to sleep on that. Cheers,c

          • patupaiarehe

             /  28th November 2016

            Yeah, rightyo Blazer. Remember the saying, “You can’t fool all of the people, all of the time…”. Speaking for myself, I can figure out where ‘big money’ is involved, and will vote against it…

            Reply

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