Open Forum – Tuesday

3 January 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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30 Comments

  1. Klik Bate

     /  January 3, 2017

    My niece in the UIS reteets……

    Reply
  2. unitedtribes2

     /  January 3, 2017

    Just read this

    “Here’s a fact of life that may startle you: 85 percent of all genetic variation is among people within a population and only 15 percent of the variation among humans is between different populations and continents. This means that any two black people chosen at random will have far more genetic differences from each other than a randomly selected white and a black person. Biologically speaking the old cliché is true: There is only one race—the human race”

    So much for progressive diversity policy

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/the-invention-of-the-white-working-class.html

    Reply
    • Good article UT2, even if the genetic variation stats are tenuous or debatable. I think Alan may be correct …

      ” … race is a social construction, a human invention used to create a hierarchy of power. It is not genetics. It is not biology. And in the case of the “white working-class,” it’s not even accurate sociology.”

      Les Leopold is, of course, involved in the short-term but (presumably) highly lucrative media industry of endless pawing over the bones of the US Presidential election. Consequently, possibly, or anyhow, he’s taken a cyclopsian, more-or-less purely economic view of ‘class’. Fallen into one of the many pit traps dug to protect neoliberalism and impaled himself on a ‘market society’ sharpened spike.

      He’ll recover after Trump’s inauguration, when pawing over the first 100 days will become the new American “happy place” …

      He’s disregarded a couple of important factors IMHO. One is straightforward, skin colour. Regardless of biology most of the planets population are programmed to think of this as ‘racial’, and many ‘racist’.

      The other, related though far more complicated, is what we’ve come to call “ethnicity” : the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition. Into this mix add gender and our colonial roles … coloniser or colonised … plus national, cultural and social … There’s an awful lot to consider in those factors as well as economics …

      A lot of diversity …

      Leopold nonetheless comes to a rational conclusion and asks a fitting though perhaps predictable question IMHO, vis – “the real question is this: Is it even possible for working people of all kinds to vote their economic interests given the corporate orientation of both parties?”

      A Native American woman probably wouldn’t ask the same thing. Hence it might be argued Leopold has asked exactly the question “they” – the power brokers – want him to ask?

      How you conclude this negates “diversity policy” has entirely escaped me …

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 3, 2017

        I presume he means that absent dominant genetic variation, “diversity policies” have to claim to address differences in brain content rather than genetic content. But I presume that is what they claim anyway when they are not claiming to address differences in wallet content.

        Reply
      • I don’t think it matters Alan, whether you are being facetious or not … [I can’t tell]

        To claim “So much for progressive diversity policy” because similarity of circumstances between various ethni-socio-economic groups can be drawn academically is rather like decrying the Kotahitanga and Kauhanganui movements [Maori Parliament and Maori King’s House of Assembly] of the 1880s & 90s for their “unity” … Their attempts to unify hapu iwi to prevent further land alienation, voice Maori grievances, seek redress and influence the settler government.

        The idea that doing this somehow negates hapu iwi ‘diversity’ is plainly preposterous.

        Concurrently though, the political unification of “working people of all kinds to vote their economic interests” is exactly what is needed. You’d no doubt call it “Leftie”, “socialist” and other derisory terms, but it could and perhaps will actually be the new ‘Centre’ …

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 3, 2017

          I was serious but merely analysing, not supporting, his comment. Everyone should consider their own economic interests but not have that as their sole consideration in voting for what they believe should be the best for the country. They must also consider what is best for others, their friends, family and what they may in the future become.The evil of the identity politics you and the Left advocate is that it attempts to narrow those considerations to simple direct bribes.

          Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  January 3, 2017

      Interesting UT. Coincidentally I’m in the process of having my DNA tested to establish my own genetic diversity (23andme.com). I’m particularly keen to know if I’m one of the 8% with mongol blood and further back whether I’m pure homo sapiens or part neanderthal. My great grandfather had a protruding forehead so I’m guessing sbout 50,000 years ago one of my ancestors was waking up in a cave somewhere in the icy primordial wilderness. Hungry and cold, they surveyed the skyline for animals to hunt for their hungry family. But instead of a woolly Mammoth appearing over yonder hill, they saw a line of strange looking two-legged creatures, with painted faces and spears approaching. Cheers,c

      Reply
    • United Tribes 2. Google “Bhinneka Tunggal Ika”. Frasa ini berasal dari bahasa Jawa Kuno dan seringkali diterjemahkan dengan kalimat “Berbeda-beda tetapi tetap satu”.

      “This phrase originates from ancient Javanese language and is ofter translated by the sentence ” Differing but still unified.’

      Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 3, 2017

    This means that any two black people chosen at random will have far more genetic differences from each other than a randomly selected white and a black person.

    No it doesn’t. It means that 85% of the difference between a randomly selected white and black person will be population variance and 15% will be racial differences. There will be 15% more difference in the inter-racial comparison than the intra-racial one.

    Reply
  4. Klik Bate

     /  January 3, 2017

    And another retweet from my niece in the US…..

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 3, 2017

      Nice, but the photoshop would be more convincing if it didn’t have the next girl’s belly smeared across the side of the Pope’s belly.

      Reply
      • Klik Bate

         /  January 3, 2017

        You need to understand Alan, there’s a reason for everything…….

        http://www.geometricdesign.co.uk/perfect.htm

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 3, 2017

          I looked at that and decided I didn’t need to understand it.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 3, 2017

            Altar, not alter.

            Reply
            • Klik Bate

               /  January 3, 2017

              You obviously never read the source Kitty…..that’s the American spelling.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 4, 2017

              It can’t be, it’s a different word. Surely they don’t spell the two the same !

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 4, 2017

              It’s wrong in any country; google it. Alter (change) and altar (church table or elevated place) are spelt differently in all English-speaking countries, even the US where the language is at best a dialect of English. They do, howeverm differentiate between alter and altar.

  5. Zedd

     /  January 3, 2017

    they still haven’t locked drump up !

    Reply
    • Zedd mate … I think you might have to give up on it …

      The predicted attacks on the U.S. Eastern seaboard by Russia and subsequent economic takeover of the US by China during 2016 didn’t happen either …

      I predict he’ll be inaugurated, assume office, tow the military-industrial line and disappoint most of those who voted for him …

      Reply
    • Klik Bate

       /  January 3, 2017

      And they’re never likely to Zeddo……Trumpy is now ‘AMERICAN ROYALTY’ ❗

      Reply
      • I retract Zedd …. Lock him up!

        What amazes me is that so many people are taken-in and admire this guy!? I’d find it entirely unbelievable if it wasn’t for John Key … Oh and Don Brash … Ruth Richardson … Roger Douglas … Ronald Reagan … Maggie Thatcher …

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 3, 2017

          People are tired of the old crap from politicians, PZ. They want to try new crap from Trump.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 3, 2017

            Toe the line, not tow it-tow the line is meaningless in this context.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  January 3, 2017

              Although you are perfectly correct in most cases where this phrase is normally used, I let that one go because I could easily visualise El Trumpo pulling the Military Industrialists along behind him, whooping with glee as they contemplated all the new business he seems to have promised.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 4, 2017

              I’d like to see him being towed along at the end of a line….a good, strong rope one….

  6. Blazer

     /  January 3, 2017

    New Year ..cheers…

    Reply
  7. Gezza

     /  January 3, 2017

    And a Happy New Year one for El Trumpo and ‘Mad Dog’ Mattis:

    Reply

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