PM at Waitangi – no speak, no go

Prime Minister Bill English says he won’t go to Waitangi on Waitangi Day because he has been told he wouldn’t be able to speak.

Newshub: Bill English to skip Waitangi celebrations

Bill English is planning to spend his first Waitangi Day as Prime Minister in Auckland – not Waitangi.

The Prime Minister traditionally attends the traditional powhiri at Te Tii Marae, but Mr English has turned down the marae’s invitation because they’re not willing to let him speak.

“After the issues surrounding the previous Prime Minister’s attendance at Te Tii Marae last year, my office sought clarification from marae kaumatua that I would be welcomed and able speak about issues of importance to New Zealand, as is tradition.

“However, my office was advised I could attend the powhiri but not speak – conditions which are not acceptable to me.”

Fair enough. There’s no point in going to Waitangi and being the subject of protests and abuse when he won’t have a right to speak.

John Key didn’t attend last year, and Helen Clark stopped attending in 2004.

Mr English will still go to Waitangi, just not on Waitangi Day. He’s accepted an invitation to lead a delegation of ministers to meet the Iwi Chair’s Forum on February 3.

So he isn’t snubbing Waitangi altogether, he’s just trying to avoid what has become a protest circus. Last year a woman threw a dildo at Steven Joyce, this won’t have helped restore confidence in Waitangi being a respectable forum.

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111 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  9th January 2017

    Surprised they won’t let him speak.That is a very unusual,almost unbelievable…protocol.

    Reply
    • It does seem a bad way to start a realtionship with a new Prime Minister.

      Reply
      • Depends if the relationship with the new PM matters to them Pete? I get the feeling it doesn’t under these circumstances. Specifically Te Tii being a forum for “tribes to discuss their greivances” …

        What is so difficult to understand about this?

        Reply
  2. Tracy

     /  9th January 2017

    Well done Bill, people are getting tired of mixed blood Maori separatists who claim through the grievance industry so called lost rights. There are no full blooded Maori left, just multicultural New Zealanders from all parts of the world.
    The time is very close to where this type of behaviour is deemed to be of a terrorist Nature. Stop suppressing the issue and get off your backside New Zealand and deal with these people before you completely destroy your country!
    This nonsense is not accepted overseas by culturally mature nations.

    Reply
    • Please name those nations Tracy?

      Reply
      • Which “culturally mature nations” are they again …?

        Reply
        • I’m really keen to know who these “culturally mature nations” are Tracy …?

          Lots of Pakeha might want to move there …

          Reply
          • Tracy

             /  9th January 2017

            Why so you can copy these cultures and keep cultural harmony in NZ? Your ignorance is shown by facilitating the destruction of harmony by making such comments that show you support separatist behaviour.
            Japan is an example of cultural harmony, they keep cultures out that destroy exactly what you appear to support.
            Everyone is welcome to live in Japan, except for those that want to create disharmony and then watch what the Japanese Authorities do when there is a problem.

            Reply
      • Blazer

         /  9th January 2017

        another….magician.

        Reply
  3. “In 1875 the Ngapuhi tribes opened the Tiriti o Waitangi Marae as a potent symbol of the significance of the Treaty, and as a place where the tribes could gather annually on the anniversary of its signing to discuss grievances arising out of Pakeha infractions of it. Maori leaders knew the [settler] Parliament was the source of their afflictions.” – Ranganui Walker ‘Ka Whawhai Tonu Matou’ Struggle Without End; Penguin 2004 pg 152

    They surely have the right to say who is welcome on their marae and how manuhiri ought to behave if invited?

    Not speaking at Te Tii must be perceived as an affront to Bill English’s mana?
    I have no doubt English was welcome to speak in the open forum later in the day.

    “For Päkehä to gain legitimacy here, it is they who must place their trust in Mäori, not the other way around. They must accept that it is for the tangata whenua to determine their status in this land [on this marae] and to do so in accordance with tikanga Mäori. This will involve sorting out a process of negotiation which is driven by the principles underpinning tikanga, a process which Päkehä do not control.” – Ani Mikaere ‘Are we all New Zealanders yet? The search for Pakeha indigeneity’ – Bruce Jesson Memorial Lecture 2004

    Reply
    • Likewise I always insist guests to my house remain silent at all times and listen to my rants about Maori land rights. Surprisingly I have few visitors.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  9th January 2017

        try supplying food and drink….and you may get a few more,with….earplugs.

        Reply
      • You’re fudging it Arty … You get the visitors you invite, the ones who listen to your raves about Maori privilege, ‘racial separatism’, the musket wars and perhaps ‘daughter slaughter’ … ? Dissenters don’t bother to come …

        Have you worked out when this new form of racial separatism began yet …?

        I’d dearly like to know. Was it the end of apartheid? The signing of the Treaty? The end of the Land Wars perhaps? The abolition of slavery (in England) just 4 years prior to Te Tiriti …?

        Reply
    • Tracy

       /  9th January 2017

      Firstly the treaty was a document between Queen Victoria, NZs Governor and Maori tribes not the current people of New Zealand, who continue to pay for a document that has no legal standing.
      The treaty has been reviewed by many legal minds in recent times and is being misapplied to the current and past grievance claims.
      Stop living in the past, you will live to regret the separatism that is being foster by a culture that is not indigenous to New Zealand. Maori were a transient culture to the Pacific region and thus have no long term claim to New Zealand’s future.

      If there is to be peace amongst other cultures in New Zealand the nonosence at Waitiangi must stop.
      If Churches behaved in the manner that you quote above about who can talk or are welcome on the Marae which included woman in the past I note, the world would be in worse mess than it is now.
      If Maori want to be separate from the rest of New Zealand’s residents then stop expecting them to pay for supposed injustices of the past.

      You will start strife with other cultures within New Zealand that won’t accept your nonsense.
      It’s only a matter of time before this issue gets very nasty and being a Maori will have the same label that a certain Middle East religion has due to fundamentalist members creating trouble with terrorisim, unfairly to the rest of the religion.

      Wake up to yourselves and look at similar issues around the world and side whether the price for Sovereignty is worth the long term issues created by people that are not representative of the old people of New Zealand past.

      Reply
      • I guess you mean the old British & European ‘discoverers’, colonial resource exploiters, land grabbers and early settlers Tracy?

        Queen Wikitoria’s Governor was clearly a representative of the ‘Crown’, the name the government of first Colony, then Dominion, then Independent New Zealand has maintained as a Commonwealth member. Our Head of State is the British Monarch …

        Yes, the Treaty has been reviewed by many legal minds who’ve most recently decided Maori did not cede ‘sovereignty’ … The word ‘mana’ would have needed to appear in the Maori text, the one they signed for anything approaching ‘sovereignty’ to be understood … and if it had appeared they wouldn’t have signed it.

        The separatism you and your ilk cite IS a thing of the past Tracy, promulgated by all sorts of ‘Native’ legislation and bureaucracy … Its not something new … If it is, please tell me when it began?

        Churches do behave in exactly this manner! Women and Gay men cannot be Priests … Arguably, the world is the mess it is now largely because of Churches and the political institutions which grew from them …

        You think it wasn’t “nasty” in 1845 at Ruapekapeka, 1861 at Waitara or 1868 at the massacre at Handley’s Woolshed, 1881 at Parihaka or 1916 at Maungapohatu … and countless others!?

        “On Sunday morning, 21 Feb 1864, while the people of the settlement (Rangiaowhia) were at church, the Forest Rangers and the 65th Regiment mounted an attack. Rifle fire pinned down the congregation and the house was set alight. All inside perished, including two daughters of the Arawa chief Kereopa Te Rau” – Ranganui Walker ‘Ka Whawhai Tonu Matou’: Struggle Without End.

        Surprized you didn’t evoke ‘Waitaha’ and all the other peoples who were here before Maori, including Chinese and Celtic …

        Which similar issues around the world? … First Nation issues in North America? Indigenous peoples’ extinction in South America? Native Hawaiians? Every post-colonial nation in Africa … The list is endless …

        Presumably you are exhibiting “cultural maturity”?
        The Kiwi Frontline sort …?
        I’m still keen to know where these culturally mature nations are … ?
        Please, do tell?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  9th January 2017

          Just this Sunday, again, this time at Dad’s Rest Home, I’m busy playing Snap! at cards with dear old Jeanette, who’s being ostracised by the other ladies because she’s so haughty, forthright & blunt she’s rude, and she’s “a bossy bitch”, according to Doreen, when Jeanette says to me, “Are you a Maori?”. “No, why?” “You look Maori.”

          I told her there’s an olive-skinned strain in the Irish Celts & I’m often asked this question, but I don’t mind at all – & moved her on by slapping the cards down more quickly, because I didn’t think this conversation was going to stay amicable.

          PZ I’d never even heard of Kiwi Front Line until you started on about them a while back. Tbh I wouldn’t even want to advertise those dudes.

          Reply
          • What’s his name Gezza …. Oh yeah …. Godwin …

            It’s always best to know what they are and who they are …

            That people like Don Brash, Muriel Newman, Bob Jones, Ian Wishart and Alan Duff ascribe to this “musket wars and daughter slaughter”, ‘They Stone Age Brutes, We Iron Age Brutes’ BULLSHIT might just give some people reason to pause …

            Each person who turns away from the gates of this modern Kororareka, ‘hell hole of the internet’, is a success to my mind …

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  9th January 2017

              You have a tendency to assign people to categories or particular views or beliefs without them necessarily believing or saying all the things you say they must do. It can be very unfair & annoying. Do you have any links showing those you have identified above have specifically endorsed or espoused those particular extreme sentiments above.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  9th January 2017

              G, I’m curious. Were you a psychiatric nurse in a former life?

            • Oh, my apologies Gezza … Just one example, Ian Wishart …

              http://www.kiwifrontline.com/blogs/ian-wishart

              There’s a long list of others on the right hand side.

              Read on … http://www.investigatemagazine.co.nz/Investigate/13077/waitangi-tribunal-lying-maori/

              Wishart trots out the usual invective and convolution about how terrible pre-European Maori society was … based on European observations … the use of the word “kawanatanga” … and hangs a great deal of his argument on the Kohimarama Conference …

              “The Governor knew that the Imperial Army was not capable of fighting a general uprising of the tribes. As the situation in Taranaki deteriorated (forced upon Wiremu Kingi by Pakeha at Waitara in Feb 1860) … He [Governor Browne] convened a meeting of 200 chiefs at Kohimarama in July 1860, ostensibly to discuss the Treaty of Waitangi. Wiremu Kingi, whom the Governor was attempting to isolate, was not invited. Nor was the Maori King. The rangatiratanga of chiefs who were obstacles to the acquisition of land was set aside again by the well-tried colonial strategy of divide and rule” – Ranganui Walker

              The Maori King’s Council later declared they would not sell any more land and end their neutrality if Waitara was surveyed. 170 Chiefs petitioned the Queen for a commission of inquiry … and Governor Browne’s days were numbered … He was replaced in 1861 by Grey returning for his second term …

            • Tracy

               /  9th January 2017

              Get over it mate! You are spouting only what you have read or some radical lecturer has pushed with a slant.
              If you were where I was, you would see how pitiful and rear looking your detail is.
              You are on a hiding to nothing with your negative view of the past. Build a bloody future for New Zealand. The majority of the nation isn’t going to tolerate your ill informed view in the long run.
              If you and others like you destabilise NZ you will have overseas interests in NZ like a flash. You may have to answer to an authority that you can’t get past, such as the UN or Australia. But destabilising NZ will draw involvement by outsiders that have interests within the country. You may get a surprise???!!!
              Stop talking imature rubbish and get on being an asset NZ not a liability!!

            • Conspiratoor – “G, I’m curious. Were you a psychiatric nurse in a former life?”

              C’s all out of ammo Gezza.

              I’m off … got better things to do … later …

            • Gezza

               /  9th January 2017

              c, no, why – were you a patient?

            • Gezza

               /  9th January 2017

              (and yup, I know you knew that was coming, but that’s just betting odds 😀)

            • Gezza

               /  9th January 2017

              Gotta fly PZ. I’ll have squiz, but Wishart’s a fundy Chrisso, and a lotta his stuff’s right off the planet imo. Only phools phollow him. Catcha l8r.

            • @ Tracy – “If you and others like you destabilise NZ you will have overseas interests in NZ like a flash. You may have to answer to an authority that you can’t get past … ”

              What’s this? Veiled threats now …?

              This is so off the planet its comical. Oh dear, you mean overseas interests are poised to enter NZ!? You mean they haven’t already? You mean, that’s not what Rogernomics and globalisation was all about …?

              The only ‘authority’ I might not get past would be you and your ilk if you ever attain some semblance of power … though I’d fight you with my last breath if you do …

              I see a total of 1,400 people ‘like’ Hobson’s Pledge … a massive 0.03% of the population …

              I’m an asset to this nation, don’t you worry Tracy. I bet you respect how the United States constantly upholds the right of people to dissent?

              Where you and KFL are concerned … That’s me!

            • Tracy

               /  9th January 2017

              It’s not a veiled threat it’s reality fella.
              When you realise it’s not the European Maori’s that actually think they run NZ you will have come back to reality. The Olagarcs of the business world do and right now they are just humouring you lot.
              When you become a problem see what actually happens. Hence why I make reference to you not being in touch with reality.
              People like you can’t run a nation with this type of attitude before a correction needs to be made.
              In mean time you make your own peoples lives and the rest of the community more miserable with your disfunctional nonsense.
              Your responces inferrs an idealist with little practical experience with the real world, somewhat insulated from other cultures needs.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  9th January 2017

              Never been a patient (wonderful come back btw) but I have been inside one or two and tbh some days I feel like the lunatics have taken over the asylum. No, it’s just that you appear to have a calming way of communicating to folks who are becoming quite excitable. Nothing wrong with being a psyco nurse btw, grandaddy was one and although he developed the thousand yard stare in later life by all accounts he was very good at his job. Cheers,c

        • Tracy

           /  9th January 2017

          So with all of what you have said being what you have been led to believe, where does that leave current New Zealanders who have non of the past nonsense in their viens or have been involved in your perceived and present injustices.
          You have been brain washed beyond belief to spout what you have just spouted.
          Get over the past mate and get with the future, you were eating each other 150 years ago, you moved on from that.
          So start focusing on ensuring you kids get breakfast each morning and there is a health system to keep them alive.
          Your not Maori any more, you are New Zealanders now. Keep your culture, but get past the radical brain washing you have been given.
          You will wake up one morning only to find that it is yourself that is to blame for the poverty and disharmony that exists through your radical views and behaviour no one else’s.
          I am one person that you can’t BS with what you have written, I am old enough to know different, this radical nonsense didn’t exist prior to the 1980s and listening to it from white so called Maoris is quite comical, they don’t realise how stupid they look and sound proporting to be ‘a Maori’ yeah right!!
          You will be taken seriously when you actually look after you own people and Maori children have better welfare and don’t end up in jail or running off the rails.
          The statistics are there for all to see, look after the many, not the few in maoridom!

          Reply
          • Oh yeah, right, I couldn’t possibly have come to any of these conclusions myself from study and experience! I had to be brainwashed.

            Yet you trot out all the old justifications … I’d forgotten about ‘cannabalism’.

            The apparent “smooth race relations” you so loved prior to the 1980s are the product of two things Tracy – Your own privileged White upbringing and Pakeha Society’s White Mythology. Any reading of history with the possible exception of Moon, Chapple and Co will tell you this …

            But of course they have a monopoly on historic truth, don’t they?

            Why else apart from greivances would Maori begin tribal rununga as soon as a settler Parliament was installed in 1854? Why instigate ‘Pupuri Whenua’ and attempt to withhold Maori land from sale … followed by the Kingitanga … Kotahitanga … and on and on it goes …

            Its simple: They did not believe they’d signed away their sovereignty.

            Found any names of “culturally mature nations” yet?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  10th January 2017

              @ PZ. I had a skim read of Wishart’s article – both links seemed to be to the same arty? Yes he’s very happy to mention old reports of savage behaviour isn’t he. Colonial & settler armies tended to be a bit less crude in their manner of despatching the locals, whether to Valhalla or to prison.

              To tell you the truth I don’t doubt such incidents did occur (didn’t see daughter slaughter/wholesale regular infanticide mentioned in there) – I came across something very similar when looking for some history of the Maori settlement of the Waikanae area last year – the night of the calabashes it’s called – and it was in a local history written by someone Maori in a local Iwi – may have been for a centennial. I didn’t realise the area had been settled by displaced Taranaki Iwi. The men of the defeated tribe all had their heads bashed in by the victors – I think it was pre-1840, but not by much.

              I see little point in denying there was savage behaviour by some Iwi pre and to a lesser extent post 1840. There was savage, perhaps more sanitised, behaviour by pakeha armies too. But that’s neither here nor there to me anymore. It’s not iwi Maori tikanga/kaupapa now, & hasn’t been for well over a century.

              There are stuff-all comments on Wishart’s article. To me that’s a measure of how little a man he is, influence-wise.

              The others you mention, I didn’t bother to see whether they were going on about daughter slaughter etc. I suspect not, but again, I don’t think this stuff enters the thinking of most kiwis, only some of the hard-outs here, who also aren’t having a big impact anywhere else – are we?

              What gets up people’s noses is Hone & crew stoking up the fires with inflammatory racist statements & those pakeha who do exactly the same – and take it to Waitangi & wave their banners & dildos about – & where the MSM (who everybody agrees are pieces of shit for their coverage of just about anything else) are suddenly given unwarranted credibility for completely misinforming dummies about exactly what the tikanga is all about up at Te Tii Marae. Duperez is right, I now realise. Bill & Wayne (!) are not stoopid, so they are being duplicitous for political advantage, imo.

            • Precisely … continuing the long, long Pakeha tradition of duplicity …

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  9th January 2017

      Not what this says, PZ. Who was right, Taonui or Walker?:

      This photograph shows the Waitangi marae at Te Tii in 1880, with the meeting house Te Tiriti o Waitangi (foreground) and the Waitangi Treaty memorial (right of meeting house). The photograph was taken by Josiah Martin shortly after the completion of the meeting house. The official opening of the meeting house was organised for March 1881. As one of the few surviving signatories of the Treaty of Waitangi, Aperahama Taonui was involved in its opening, and designed the planned ceremony as a statement of unity between Pākehā and Māori.

      https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/waitangi-marae-te-tii-1880

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  9th January 2017

      Nga Puhi get to make the rules on their marae (within the law applicable to all). The P.M. gets to say no thanks to their potential invitation under those rules.

      End of story. Most New Zealanders give a sigh of relief that posturing idiots will not get their annual platform to insult the nation.

      Reply
      • So Ranganui Walker was there in 1840, bullshit. His claims are just that claims and are NOT based on the written evidence. Remember the only authentic record of this history is written in English. The Maori “evidence” is entirely based on oral history that has a habit of changing as it is modernised. The English translation of the Treaty is the legal treaty and the written Maori treaty is a compilation of Missionary interpreted Ngapuhi language. Let us speak the truth. I repudiate the claims of tangata whenua status.

        Reply
        • @ Beejay – “Remember the only authentic record of this history is written in English.”

          What utter TOSH! Half of what’s written down as history is a written record of people’s oral history anyhow. He said this … and he said that! [Very little of it is “She said” anything!]

          Besides, if written history was the only authentic record it would never have changed, would it? Yet it is constantly being reinterpreted and written down differently [by degrees] or in other words “changing as it is modernized”.

          The Te Reo version of Te Tiriti is the legal treaty and hapu iwi understanding of it is the legitimate interpretation. How can it be otherwise? The Te Reo ‘translation’ is the document everyone signed!

          Reply
          • Dream on PZ. That is the elemental problem. Young Maori believe what they want to believe if it is for their benefit, but deny the truth if it is disadvantageous. I have no time for revisionist historians, so you are farting in the wind.

            Reply
            • Do you seriously believe that Pakeha DO NOT believe exactly what they want to believe if it is for their benefit?

              History is a cultural construct. Do you think Turkish history believes it was right and proper for ANZACs to invade their shores?

              You talk fatuous nonsense most of the time.

              All ‘History’ contains a good deal of revisionism.
              Much of it is little more than propogandist opinion!

  4. Blazer

     /  9th January 2017

    so ..he is allowed to speak….just not when he…wants to….completely different …isn’t it?

    Reply
    • ” … it is appropriate now to turn to the matter of human relationships. Let us begin by talking about the relationship between tangata whenua (loosely translated as hosts) and manuhiri (visitors or guests). When manuhiri go into the area of another people, it is understood that the tikanga of the tangata whenua apply. While there are variations between iwi and hapü in [the] way in which tikanga is practised, there is no question that within the domain of the tangata whenua, it is their interpretation and application of
      the principles underpinning tikanga that prevails.”

      She speaks the truth so clearly, this mighty wahine toa …

      ” … many Päkehä will find this [relinquishing control] challenging: their obsession with control over the Mäori-Päkehä relationship to date could almost be categorised as a form of compulsive disorder. [Pathological] Giving up such control requires a leap of faith on the part of Päkehä. In my view, however, nothing less will suffice if they truly want to gain the sense of belonging they so crave, the sense of identity that until now has proven so elusive.”

      Reply
  5. Noel

     /  9th January 2017

    Partizan you have a point. It’s the media who blow things our of proportion.
    I wonder if English would turn up if the media were not present.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  9th January 2017

      who would turn up if the media were not present?Its a media moment…mud,flying dildos,tears,and Titewhai….it wouldn’t be the…same.

      Reply
      • Two word answer Blazer … Iwi Leaders …

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  9th January 2017

          Ngapuhi leaders? An oxymoron

          Reply
          • Conspiratoors comment? …. An insult.

            Since we’ve been informed English will meet Iwi Leaders at Waitangi on 3 Feb, it might be safe to assume they’ll be present on Waitangi Day …?

            Reply
            • Klik Bate

               /  9th January 2017

              As a matter of interest, have the ‘alleged’ offenders arrested in connection with this outrage up North, been named yet ❓

            • Conspiratoor

               /  9th January 2017

              Oh spare the mock outrage parti. The things a shambles and you know it. You can’t put lipstick on a pig. If ngapuhi had displayed any leadership they would have had their snouts buried in a trough twice as deep as tainuis years ago.

            • Kliky – and the relevance of this is? They must have been Maoris, right? And all Maoris are the same … Something like that?

              Conspiratoor – Spare us the White Fright!

              As it turns out, the ‘thing’ has got nothing [directly] to do with you, or with the presence of Bill English. Neither you nor he can control it and that freaks you out. You resort to the time-worn ‘trougher’ allegation …

            • Conspiratoor

               /  9th January 2017

              Apart from seeing my taxpayer dollars funnelled into the trough I would agree it’s got nothing to do with me parti. I’ll stand back and marvel once more at the sight of the tattooed warriors and a nasty old drone assembling themselves into a circular firing squad. Cheers,c

            • Klik Bate

               /  9th January 2017

              Not at all PartiZ ! Some of my best friends are Maoris. It’s just there had been earlier speculation on social media that the people involved may have had some connection to previous Waitangi Day protestors.

            • Gezza

               /  9th January 2017

              Typical. Just a touch of makeup, a modest display of jewelery. Do you best to make yourself look nice, sound interested & make intelligent coversation, and there’s always some chauvinist PIG who’s always gotta bring THAT one up.

            • Klik Bate

               /  9th January 2017

        • PDB

           /  9th January 2017

          PZ: “Iwi Leaders”

          An oxymoron surely?

          Reply
          • I’d like to see you stand on their marae and tell them that PDB …

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  9th January 2017

              Dodging flying Dildo’s ain’t really my thing……was it one from your vast collection last time?

              Urban Maori haven’t had any help from their ‘Iwi leaders’ and continue to struggle, do you think the trickle down effect is likely to happen soon?

            • Blazer

               /  9th January 2017

              Likewise. Him and Al.

            • PDB

               /  9th January 2017

              PZ: “I’d like to see you stand on their marae and tell them that PDB …”

              The next REAL Maori leader will do just that PZ.

            • @ PDB – ” … do you think the trickle down effect is likely to happen soon?”

              Not the trickle down effect from Rogernomics and Ruthanasia we were all promised, Maori and Pakeha alike PDB, no!

  6. Gezza

     /  9th January 2017

    I hope PZ & Possum don’t mind but I have copied this over from Media watch because I think it is very wise & relevant to this post.

    PartisanZ / January 9, 2017
    Possum, do you think its possible to make that document relevant again?

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    Reply

    Pickled Possum / January 9, 2017

    No I do not think that the treaty has relevance in this day of imported and home grown racists. NZ is now a great big melting pot and the pot is not big enough.

    What we need is a great big melting pot / Big enough enough enough to take / The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more / And turn out coffee coloured people by the score.

    Dilution of our race means dilution of our tikanga, culture and our relevance as tangatawhenua. This does not appear to be a bad thing in my view as long as we are each treated like human beings of consequence, we share this land with many great people as well as not so nice.
    We will practice our tikanga and culture regardless now of how others think of it. We will say our hymns and sing our waiata practice our way of life in our homes without regard to what others may say or feel.

    Parti Te Tii Waitangi is for the Maori people from around the motu to have their say about what is happening in their part of the woods, what would the MP have to add to that that we would find relevant.

    1 0 Rate This

    Reply
    • I respect your viewpoint and opinions Possum …

      But I must say, isn’t this a bit like a Native American saying, “We’ll just stay on the reservation”?

      Will we each be treated like human beings of consequence? I believe his/herstory tells us NOT … not without regulations, without laws to apply to for justice … [I know that sounds trite and naive given our colonial his/herstory] … Not without ka whawhai tonu matou …? The Law is an evolving thing … as Treaty principles and settlements demonstrate …

      I suspect there will always be an element of the ‘power elite’ who will be suspicious of you saying your hymns, singing your waiata and practicing your way of life in your homes and marae … as they are now of Muslim people doing so in their homes and mosques … [and I won’t get started on what the hidden agenda of that might all be about?]

      I hope what you are proposing is enough to keep the language and culture alive and thriving, I sincerely do.

      When the time comes to have a written Constitution – before 2040 – where does Te Tiriti o Waitangi sit in there for you?

      Reply
      • Pickled Possum

         /  9th January 2017

        yea well good luck with that constitution Parti if we can’t get all the main actors in the whare at the same time howz that going to work?

        The language and culture have flourished without slowing down over the years from the inception of Kohanga reo to Wangana “In the education system of New Zealand, a wānanga is a publicly owned tertiary institution that provides education in a Māori cultural context. Section 162 of the Education Act 1989 (re-affirmed by the Waitangi Tribunal in 2005) specifies that wānanga resemble mainstream universities in many ways.”

        There are more taitamariki = teenagers that korero Maori now than 50 years ago.
        In Indonesia some children speak 5 languages, not that hard it seems.
        Matatini = kapa haka is growing from strength to rocking the world stage.
        Ta moko kuae = female chin tattoo is a common sight where as 30 years ago its almost died.
        Mau Taiaha = weapondry at Mokioa Island is an international event one which a Swedish man has won.
        Waka ama canoeing contests galore around the motu with national finals
        Movies written directed by young Maori like the Dead Land … history in the making.
        Our Culture is truly alive and well Parti without having fisty cuffs with non Maori every bloody day.

        As for your comparison of Muslims to Maori I must say that’s a far reach.
        Could this possible happen here in Aotearoa?
        is saying a kai karakia the same as ‘death to the infidels’ Parti or the waiata that Maisey Reka sings the same as what the Muslims sing.

        I don’t know because I am not sure it is relevant in this discussion. What the Catholics do or the Baptist is very different to what Ringatu do and say … and that’s all I wish to know.

        This is for you kia kaha Parti

        I admire your stand and your korero. You and people like you will be the ones to take this take = issue,matter, concern further and maybe write a constitution that will be favourable to all who live here.
        It is just all to much sometimes for me to see the trees for the forest … that grow on our land that are owned by overseas corporations, sucking all the goodness from Papatuanuku.

        I will return later to discuss some more with you as there are some real issues for me to tackle like te washing, art and gardening. Ma te wa

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  9th January 2017

          Tino pai, tuahine.

          Reply
          • Ae … and ae …

            My “comparison” between Maori and Muslims only relates to White Fright and the probable surveillance of both ‘groups’ as potential radicals and terrorists …. So yes, unfortunately, it has happened here … several times … most recently to Tuhoe and the eight …

            Waiata ataahua : Beautiful song … maha whakawhetai : Many Thanks

            Reply
            • Pickled Possum

               /  9th January 2017

              Oh I see said the blinded by the light wahine 😉

              butt Parti my dear friend as we are saying our hymns and singing our songs we do not practise weaponry or try to teach how to kill a pig or deer. We practice tikanga like …
              No shoes hair brushes or butts on kai tables
              Peace and kindness to visitors who come with out a agenda of war like statements. and the list is long for practising what is correct in our world.

              I am not that naive to think that If …
              ‘I have nothing to hide I have nothing to fear’ as Cardinal Richelieu’s statement says … “If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged”
              I fear I have nothing to hide … today.

              Muslims and Maori is a ‘comparison’ that has NO merit in this discussion take that out and I would agree in principle with a lot of what you write, I just don’t have the Hope you have … history tells us so, that if we fight we will all be losers.
              The winners being the prisons mental institutions and the deep dark ponds of the rubbish bins of life.
              Glad you like the song, of particular interest are the lyrics Maisey wrote

              United we all stand
              Divided we all plummet
              When problems arise
              Together we’ll overcome it

  7. MaureenW

     /  9th January 2017

    The sooner someone puts this cringe-fest day to bed, the better.
    The day should revert to New Zealand Day, a public holiday for all New Zealanders. If Maori wish to have their own special grievance day – knock yourselves out!.

    Reply
    • Tracy

       /  9th January 2017

      Well said!!

      Who endorsed and why wasn’t a referendum held, to change the the day from NZ day to Waitangi Day???

      Reply
      • What difference would it make?

        Probably none to Maori, who’ve been meeting at Waitangi since at least 1875 …

        Pakeha really got involved when they wanted to make the Centennial look good in 1940.

        A referendum? Oh ‘Right’ … like so many referendums are held about so many things …

        Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  9th January 2017

      @ Maureen … Another uninformed lady
      Waitangi day is a Holiday for Everybody New Zealanders tourists the LOT
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waitangi_Day

      Reply
      • MaureenW

         /  9th January 2017

        It’s not a holiday for New Zealanders living overseas and your pedantic stupidity is another matter

        Reply
  8. @ Tracy – ” … where does that leave current New Zealanders who have none of the past nonsense in their viens or have [not] been involved in your perceived and present injustices?”

    Its a FAQ in this realm of ‘discussion’ Tracy and although I consider it puerile, virtually rhetorical and very nearly not worth answering I’ll do so just for you.

    Where does Canada’s English/French bicultural, bilingual policy leave a post-declaration immigrant to Canada? [Where does it leave the First Nation’s people too?]

    Where does the aftermath of South Africa’s former Apartheid policy leave a post-independence immigrant to South Africa?

    Where does the United States’ heritage of all-but genocidal, trampled indigenous peoples’ rights, slavery and ‘Jim Crow’ racism leave a post Civil Rights Movement immigrant to the U.S.?

    Its you very Righties who are constantly saying “If you come here [you Asians, Muslims, foreigners] you’ve got to accept the Kiwi way of life … FFS! …

    Guess what Tracy?… A legacy of troubled race relations is part of the Kiwi way of life …

    Still I await the name of even ONE “culturally mature nation” …?

    Reply
    • Tracy

       /  9th January 2017

      PartisanZ open both eyes I have given an example via post of Culturally nature nation “Japan” it doesn’t put up with Separatists such as your self.

      Reply
      • You’re kidding me! Japan is culturally mature?

        What makes you think that?

        Is it their enforced opening to the West in 1853 by gunboat diplomacy? Is it their rapid quasi-Westernised Imperialism and the distortions created by this and its conflict with their true heritage of feudal Shogunism, which led to wars with China and then WW2 … their involvement in the latter being partly forced upon them by Imperialist United States embargos …

        Is it their re-Westernisation to the American standard as an utterly defeated, occupied, Atom bombed nation after WW2 …

        Could it perhaps be their 98.5% cultural homogeneity?
        Japan doesn’t have any separatists to “put up with” Tracy!

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan#Problems

        Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  9th January 2017

      @ PartizanZ. While I have some empathy for the arguments you make regarding cultures, the genie isn’t going back into the bottle. What do you propose to fix this grievance?
      The history of man-kind on planet Earth is almost entirely about those who came, conquered, stayed, those who were genocided out of existence, bred out of existence and those who moved on. Would you like everyone to go back to where they were thousands of years ago – back to Taiwan for the Maori (I believe)? Maybe Maori should paddle back there, and re-claim that as the rightful owners.

      Reply
      • Tracy

         /  9th January 2017

        Nice! That’s the reality of it PartisanZ, if you want what was, then the majority of the blood in you being European needs to be removed. It’s ironic how you fail to recognise this part of your heritage???
        Hence why you and others won’t be taken seriously and if you push your ideals beyond acceptance will be treated accordingly such as others who have attempted to destabilise society.

        Reply
        • Pickled Possum

           /  9th January 2017

          Gee Tracey I can see by your erroneous writing you are fairly new here and I will rewrite some of your misconceptions for you.
          Parti is English as they come probably more English than you, he has stated many times on this blog he stands on the side of fairness and equality albeit ‘at length’ his heritage is Kuini Wikitoria side.
          Your assumptions about people that have a different view from you just reeks of … umm what’s the word now, oh yea Silly.

          Reply
          • Tracy

             /  9th January 2017

            Who cares if he’s a regular!! There a large number of up to 7th generation Kiwis who have had enough of left wing so called Maori’s that are deliberately destroying NZ because they think they have been hard done by.
            I am not exaggerating this fact either!!
            NZ has gone so far backwards in the last fifteen years it’s beyond belief.
            New Zealand is heading towards third world status at the moment.
            You can fool some people but I’m not one of them.
            Who cares what colour PartisanZ is!!
            His ideals are doing nothing to move NZ forward.

            Reply
            • No, New Zealand has gone backwards in some very important ways during the last 30 years Tracy – the Rogered and Ruthanased years you no doubt support – forfeiting egalitarianism for selective ‘prosperity’.

              These years have ironically more-or-less coincided with progress in some selected areas of social and racial justice which you obviously abhor …

              Its one of those strange paradoxes … Right and Left …

              Could it be that one has ‘bought off’ the other …?

              That Treaty Principles and Settlements (plus other targeted social legislation) was the magic carpet the Sultan of Neoliberalism rode in on

              But look … MaureenW seems to think there’s no room for improvement anyhow …

            • Pickled Possum

               /  9th January 2017

              Jez Tray… Don’t blow a valve
              It’s not about colour really is it? It is all about the power for some
              Is this it for you
              ‘deliberately destroying NZ” OH Go On You Silly Woman

              If any one is going to destroy this land of ours it is people who have a crooked view of our history with a large dollop of prejudice throw in. Just because your little knitting circle all feel the same as you doesn’t make you all correct
              Where did you learn your so called history from? I bet from all the non Maori written books and where did they get their info from Traceee?

              Just how badly the conquerors wanted OUR land and OUR way of life is evident today still … just like all the immigrants flooding into NZ now and you and your lot will know just how it feels to be brushed aside for more buildings to house the *strangers, more tax payers money spent to keep the homeless from around the world.
              Oh and *strangers means pakeha not white people.

            • duperez

               /  9th January 2017

              Tracy, you say “The history of man-kind on planet Earth is almost entirely about those who came, conquered, stayed, those who were genocided out of existence, bred out of existence and those who moved on.”

              Are you saying that Maureen’s reference, “… left wing so called Maori’s that are deliberately destroying NZ because they think they have been hard done by,” is wrong, it’s not destroying, what is happening is just an evolutionary process?

            • Tracy

               /  9th January 2017

              Yes duperez I agree about evolution totally. But I think with a little country such as NZ to have destroyed in a lot of case some wonder bonds between the different groups is unacceptable. I know for a fact that radical Maori have been winding indigenous groups around the Ring of Fire and Australian Aboriginal groups with same nonsense
              Unfortunately as the Maori dilute and become more European the grievance e
              Claims become less helpful to New Zealand and the ultimate goal sovereignty is not palletable to multicultural New Zealanders. Maori have not shown the level of leadership needed to manage New Zealand. With the Tribes being at cross purposes to each other.

        • I said it the other day Tracy and MaureenW, regarding Land Wars and Gallipoli, I’m proud of what we ARE, warts and all, not what we PRETEND TO BE …

          Via the ubiquitous ‘everything’ – houses, roads, cars, currency, commodities, music, art, technology et al ad infinitum – I am constantly engaged with, both proud and critical of my English and Pakeha heritage …

          But speak anything Pakeha-critical or pro-Maori and I must be craving a return to cannibalism, daughter slaughter and musket wars, right?

          The “paddle back to Taiwan [or Africa]” argument is another oft-used KFL obfuscation, infantile, pathetic and utterly irrelevant, since here in Aotearoa New Zealand we have a Treaty, written and signed in Te Reo, acknowledging hapu iwi (Maori) as tangata whenua …

          I am Ngati Tiriti … People of the Treaty …

          I don’t like you’re veiled allusion to draining my blood Tracy. It lends credence to my suspicion you and your ilk are nasty, vicious people, who admire conquest and genocide … as MaureenW appears to do …

          Reply
          • MaureenW

             /  9th January 2017

            I do not admire conquest or genocide – I think human beings are utter morons -a Type 1 Civilisation as Dr Michiu Kaku describes. Our history consists of murdering each other over land(s), something that cannot be possessed. It’s as futile as fighting over water and air – oh wait???

            Reply
            • @ Maureen – “Our history consists of murdering each other over land(s), something that cannot be possessed.”

              Yet a central tenet of our economic system is private property in the soil. Go figure?

            • MaureenW

               /  9th January 2017

              I didn’t say it wasn’t PZ, I can still find it futile that a finite entity spends its existence murdering one-another over something that cannot truly be possessed

            • Yes but would you give up the ownership to stop the murdering?

          • Tracy

             /  9th January 2017

            You keep thinking that PartisanZ if you like???
            However my Family were closer to the Real Maori than your blood would suggest.
            My Grandmother wrote and spoke fluent Maori to the extent that Maori I know did not understand her at times. She did not have a drop of Maori in her, and had strong a relationship with them.
            Hence why I am agrieved at the destruction by these so called European Maori we see now. Wearing false Moko that they have never earnt, a disgrace.
            As I say you may have fooled the younger generation but you won’t fool mine.

            Reply
            • Tracy, I am totally on your side as I have had a father and grandfather who were fluent and spent their lives helping Maori in the Far North. Yet at my Dad’s funeral not a single Maori was prepared to speak. All take no give.

            • I regret any offence you may take Beejay, or think I direct at your father. No doubt his actions were well intentioned, as are yours …

              They came but didn’t speak …

              Speaks volumes …

            • @ Tracy – “Hence why I am aggrieved at the destruction by these so called European Maori we see now.”

              Don’t fret so Tracy. They are only destroying a MYTH, not a reality.

              They’re ‘Myth Busters’ …

            • Gezza

               /  10th January 2017

              Whaea Bernie, the 60 year old Kuia who helped me care for my wife in the final year of her life, was from Hawera. My mum, from Westport originally, was solid Irish, and a long term resident of New Plymouth where we grew up.

              Mum knew the family history on both sides, she was the matriarch. How did she did I don’t know but she was adept at, just in conversation, finding out the whakapapa of just about every woman her age that she ever cornered.

              I was amazed when she came & stayed with us & Bernie stayed all day koreroing with mum & figuring out how many freaking people they jointly knew in Taranaki. Bernie took me aside one day & gently admonished me for not according more respect to my wahine’s privacy when she was attending her. I loved her for that.

              When my lady died the funeral was packed, I wasn’t expecting that. Whaea Bernie asked if she could dress my wife, and I agreed. She was one of about three Maori faces in a packed otherwise Pakeha audience of mourners. She sat quietly in the back, and when my siblings finished speaking about her, others were offered the opportunity to do so if they wished.

              She walked down the aisle carrying her ukulele, and with tears in her eyes, she sang You Are My Sunshine. No tribute was greater.

            • Gezza

               /  10th January 2017

              PS: When that door was closed on me in the mornings, all I could ever hear was yackety-yackety-yack and giggling. Those two could not have been more different, but it didn’t matter – there was nothing between them but love & respect.

  9. Pete Kane

     /  9th January 2017

    “PM at Waitangi – no speak, no go”. Fair call – he is the Prime Minister

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  9th January 2017

      Except the email correspondence does not back Billy’s position.

      Reply
      • Pete Kane

         /  9th January 2017

        Down tick not from PDK Blazer

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  9th January 2017

        It certainly does. He asked for an invitation by 4 Jan and didn’t get it. Obviously the Marae committee was looking to assert their authority over the PM and equally he wasn’t about to tolerate that humiliation.

        Reply
  10. Come on PZ “A central tenet of our economic system is private property in the soil”? Sorry, it has no real place in the economic system that works here, ever since barter trading of food for things that were wanted by Maori started in the Whaler and Sealer days. I prefer to admire just how far we have come in a positive sense in such a small time. However to assert any sort of priority because of family relationship before others of equal need seems to me a challenge against true democratic principles. We have no choice on where we are born and into what ethnicity and gender we are placed. If you believe, it is God’s choice, if you don’t then it is genetics, but regardless we as individuals have no say in how and where we are born. So I accept that, and try and live to a code that says your colour, creed or beliefs are part of being human. and I as another human being accept that. I will never ever concede to any other person superiority because of birth right, it has to be earned.

    Reply
    • You got this the wrong way around Beejay, ” … ever since barter trading of food for things that were wanted by Maori started in the Whaler and Sealer days.”

      Ever since barter trading of things wanted by Maori, many completely new to their civilisation, was instigated by Whalers and Sealers in exchange for food they absolutely needed … They who came to pilfer and exploit hapu iwi ‘owned’ resources …

      I posit that the highest officers in the army you served in were there primarily because of birth-right? It was certainly the way until very recently … and perhaps still is?

      Reply
      • PZ, birthright as a selection criterion for the Regular Army in NZ? Never happened in the NZ Army, ever. In your haste to paint a false picture you are erring on the absurd. The facts speak for themselves . I speak as a former Director of Personnel (Army).

        Reply
        • Tracy

           /  10th January 2017

          Honestly PartisanZ you talk absolute rubbish, you talk about resources being stolen from the Maori as if you were there at the time.
          Isn’t there a law in NZ legislation that prohibits insigtment?
          Because the resentment and vitriol you have about early settlers in NZ verges on insighting hatred for any European or immigrant .
          I keep myself in check if I was you.
          You are quoting absolute rubbish based on written and verbal accounts that may or may not be accurate.
          Your knowledge on the NZ Army is also erroneous too.
          Find something useful to do rather that spout hatred based on past events!!

          Reply
          • Thank you Tracy, well said. However we are trying tochange a very fixed attitude not bothered by fact.

            Reply
          • @ Tracy – ” … you [PZ] talk about resources being stolen from the Maori as if you were there at the time.”

            Oh, you mean like you talk about knowing how Maori understood Te Tiriti as if YOU were there at the time … ?

            This is a mutant combination of Alan’s “The Only History is Self” (or Cultural Narcissism) and Beejay’s sanctification written history alone … I call CONTRADICTION and hyprocrisy on it as well as *CROC* …. It is nothing short of Twaddle-mongering …

            “They [the Whalers & Sealers of the last decade of the 18th Century] encountered a Maori world. Contact was regional in its nature; many Maori had no contact with Europeans. Where contact did occur, Europeans had to work out a satisfactory arrangement with Maori, who were often needed to provide local knowledge, food, resources, companionship, labour and, most important of all, guarantee the newcomers’ safety. Maori were quick to recognise the economic benefits to be gained in developing a relationship with these newcomers.”

            This is noted New Zealand ‘written’ historian James Belich FFS! (Or is there something ideologically wrong with him? Like maybe he doesn’t belong to KFL? Or does belong to the Labour Party … or something?)

            https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/pre-1840-contact/sealers-and-whalers

            “Visiting whalers also had a profound impact on Māori society. Especially in the Bay of Islands, whalers’ demands for potatoes and pork provided an early trade opportunity for Māori. In return, whalers often supplied muskets and alcohol, while their liaisons with Māori women further disrupted Māori society. On the positive side, it is said that the modern kūmara entered Māori horticulture as an American whaler’s sweet potato.”

            http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/whaling/page-4

            You people are only marginally sane IMHO … Do you seriously think you DON’T have fixed attitudes Beejay!

            Whalers and Sealers were one of the main causes of –

            1) European behaviour about which many Maori [and pious Europeans like the Missionaries] petitioned Queen Victoria for English government of the English population.

            2) Significant Maori depopulation from European diseases including STDs.

            3) The extinction or near extinction of various species of Whales and Seals.

            Reply
            • Tracy

               /  11th January 2017

              PartisanZ are you ok, do you need some support. You are very wound up about happenings that happened a very long time ago and historians can only surmise perhaps what happened actually in some cases. You have appeared to have taken their accounts literally and in some case they only demonstrate what may have happened.
              To be so bitter over an issue 150 years plus later is a sign of being a little disturbed.
              Move on mate, your behaviour and others like you will result in some sort of public correction if it is allowed to affect the general population.
              The world works a little differently to the way you appear to interpret it.
              Your diatribe does little to establish confidence in those that read it, in regard to your balanced outlook of life.
              No authority will allow this type of behaviour to influence the future of New Zealand.
              At some stage this type of thinking over steps acceptable behaviour and a legal correction will need to be made.

              Don’t destroy what regard is left for the Maori People by poor behaviour by you and people like you with Separatist and Radical behaviour.
              Set an example.
              The world sees a particularly religion now that is mistrusted and watched continuously where ever it appears displaying radical and terrorist behaviour.
              Do you want relationships in NZ to deteriorate in the same manner with similar behaviour you are displaying in what you write and appear to resent and think?
              You are not a Maori of those past times, you are a New Zealander who may or may not have mixed blood. You have no claim to the past, just the future like every other mixed blooded New Zealander who does not have a percentage of Maori blood in them.

              What you fail to realise is that those same New Zealanders won’t support your misconception of lost privileges you seem to have of a so called ‘Maori’

              Get some before you and other like you get yourselves in serious trouble.

            • You missed out Moas PNZ – oh wait!

  11. For example in the proposed name change of ‘North’ & ‘South’ Islands to Te Ika a Maui & Te Waipounamu, “biculturalism is increasingly being imposed upon them [Pakeha] and their own cultural heritage devalued and pushed aside in the process, with very little regard for the will of the majority.”

    What is fascinating about this analysis … is the suggestion that the names “North Island” and “South Island” somehow represent Päkehä cultural heritage, which must be defended at all costs.

    – Ani Mikaere, 2004 Bruce Jesson Memorial Lecture

    Reply
    • Tracy

       /  12th January 2017

      PartisanZ you can change the names of the two Islands but you can’t get rid of damn Pakeha’s. And at 10% of the population you are going to struggle to get majority political traction for Sovereignty. Oh the frustration 😱

      Reply

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