Ngapuhi elder backs PM’s Waitangi decision

While there has been some criticism of Prime Minister Bill English’s decision not to attend the contentious part of the Waitangi celebrations there has also been a lot of support.

Ngapuhi elder Kingi Taurua, on reviewing  an exchange of letters between English’s office and the Waitangi Marae Organising Committee, has switched to supporting English’s stance, saying he had egg on his face after his initial criticism.

NZ Herald: Ngapuhi elder now backs PM’s Waitangi no show: ‘I wouldn’t go either’

A Ngapuhi elder says he wants to apologise to Prime Minister Bill English for calling him a “spoilt child” for not attending Waitangi – saying he now backs English’s decision to stay away.

Kingi Taurua said since making his criticism of English he had seen a letter that was sent to the Prime Minister’s office by the Waitangi Marae Organising Committee.

That stated that during the pre-Waitangi Day powhiri it was preferred that English’s “Maori representatives” speak on his behalf. After the powhiri there would be another event where English and others could freely talk, including about political issues.

Taurua told the Herald that he had mistakenly believed that English had only been told he could not talk politics during the powhiri.

He now felt he had “egg on my face” after he called on English not to be “a spoilt child and run away”, and wanted to meet the Prime Minister on his return from an official visit to Europe to offer an apology.

“I wouldn’t go either. If I got that letter, telling me not to speak and to get somebody else to speak on my behalf, I wouldn’t go anywhere near the place.”

“I want these guys [on the organising committee] out. I want these young bucks to get out. I want now the elderly people to take control of Waitangi Day.

“I’m not happy at all. A lot of the tribe are not happy.”

Taurua said there would be a meeting at Waitangi today.

The letters are here: PM and Waitangi Marae

Also John Armstrong: The tiresome antics at Waitangi have undermined the power and symbolism of the occasion

Bill English has done the right thing in following John Key’s example and opting to maintain National’s prime ministerial boycott of national day commemorations at Waitangi.

That remains the case, despite English opening himself up to accusations that his refusal to front at the birthplace of the nation’s founding document, on the anniversary of its signing, amounts to both a serious dereliction of prime ministerial duty failure of leadership.

The new prime minister’s decision to follow in his predecessor’s footsteps, and stay away from Waitangi, is the right one not only for himself.

It is the right one for the National Party.

Of even more significance, it is more likely than not the right decision for the country.

The brutal truth is that while the Treaty’s influence has grown to the point where it is now cemented into New Zealand’s unwritten constitution, Waitangi Day is sinking under the weight of its conflicting roles.

Leave a comment

56 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  January 12, 2017

    Trouble up at t’mill.

    Reply
  2. David

     /  January 12, 2017

    The tribe appears completely dysfunctional, they cant get agree on how to settle their claim despite the crown bending over backwards to facilitate it.
    I am with Seymour and ACT and take celebrations around the country and the country can witness the hosting by tribes that have long settled their claims and there is no divisions just a shared country where everyone plays a role and the special place that Maori have is recognized and respected.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  January 12, 2017

      It could potentially cause as much or more trouble than now David. Those with grievances, banners, dildos & anger issues could just follow it around & get into stoushes with the local iwi. Also there’d probably be argy bargy & grr about who’s turn it is, and there are some who didn’t sign because white man spoke with forked tongue. Also, Te Wai Pounamu was just claimed for The Royal We Utterer by right of discover.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 12, 2017

        Read the link I posted yesterday. The French would have been a much worse option for Maori.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  January 12, 2017

          Nonsense. They probably would’ve surrendered the minute te kairākau surprised them in the rear.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 12, 2017

            The Foreign Legion was a different story entirely, G. It’s prisoners didn’t survive.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  January 12, 2017

              Arabs though, Al. Not Maori.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 12, 2017

              That’s rather my point. Would you like to have added Maori to their burial lists?

            • Gezza

               /  January 12, 2017

              They would had their kepis shrunk while still wearing them Al.

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 12, 2017

    Ngapuhi have long established themselves as a bunch of arrogant fuckwits and until they reform have no mana and are unworthy to host Waitangi. That is the simple truth.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  January 12, 2017

      Although you are sometimes not correct at all about matters, it appears there may be something in what you say here Al.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 12, 2017

        It takes some people longer than others to admit I am right, G.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  January 12, 2017

          It doesn’t long for them to work out you’re certainly not left, Al.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 12, 2017

            I left that one for you to save face with, G. I thought about saying correct but decided it wouldn’t be right.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  January 12, 2017

              I can still get the last word here, if I want, just by waiting for you to go to bed. Remember that.

    • Pickled Possum

       /  January 12, 2017

      Morena Al
      Jez Al are you gonna get it from a retired Kernel when he sees yaw swearing!!
      but yes I have to admit sometimes their is gold in them there words of yours.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 12, 2017

        Hi Possum. Occasionally I let loose when necessary. It gives me no pleasure that the local folk have hopeless leadership that continually let them down.

        Reply
  4. They’ve hijacked the day and they’ve fine so with the complicity of the MSM. Time to out them. Great call by English. I’m over it and just want a street party a la Oz

    Reply
  5. When John Kirwan appears on TV and says stuff like “true strength is admitting you have a problem, showing your vulnerability and asking for help” we all mostly applaud … (even those who will probably never do so themselves?) … Does this make Kirwan a “timid fuckwit”?

    Information about the Maori historic view of Waitangi Day is much more difficult to find than the accepted, orthodox, official, monocultural pakeha view which says it was ‘invented’ in 1940 and officially made a public holiday in 1974. I am going to tell another story –

    Te Tii marae is built and consecrated 1875/1881 [or whenever] as a forum for Maori greivances, which it remained for many years. Even if some Maori wanted it to be for both races, Pakeha didn’t attend. The importance of the Waitangi site and Waitangi Day during this whole time is almost entirely for hapu iwi Maori.

    In 1934, anticipating the Centennial, Lord Bledisloe purchases the Treaty House site and bequeaths it to the nation, bringing Pakeha at large into the picture for the first time. Maori welcome them (perhaps thinking their grievances will finally be heard?).

    In 1940 massive Bicenntenial celebrations go ahead in a spirit of ‘partnership’ eagerly promoted by politicians like Ngata, Henare and Buck. Ngata speaks about Maori grievances.

    “Writing to Buck, he [Ngata] said that their ‘greatest service to New Zealand was the stocktaking of ideas of relationships between tribes and between the Maori people and the Pakeha, the partners in the agreements of 1840’.” – see link

    “The national festivities on the site in 1934 and 1940 reinvented Waitangi in the popular imagination, and Ngata and Henare ensured that Maori understandings of its symbolic importance had equal place with those of Pakeha. The modern history of Waitangi and of the Treaty dates from those events.”

    @ traveller – One might even say that Pakeha hijacked the day …?

    Sure enough, “there was also … another thread in the weave of Maori responses. On both occasions Pakeha political leaders began to learn that great ceremonial occasions [and] demonstrations of national unity also provided opportunities for Maori to remind Pakeha of their grievances. Only Ngata’s last-minute efforts had prevented a Maori boycott of the dedication celebrations in 1934.”

    I won’t quote at any more length. This is an exemplary read – Its about who we ARE, not who we PRETEND TO BE – warts and all … problems, vulnerabilities, needs …

    http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-RenCrea-t1-body-d3-d1.html

    How helpful is it calling people “a bunch of arrogant fuckwits” …?

    @ Alan – To paraphrase Jon Legend, “even when you win you’re losing” …

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 12, 2017

      Sometimes it is necessary to be blunt to be helpful, PZ. Nothing else seems to have worked for Ngapuhi so far.

      Reply
    • I admit the situation isn’t perfectly tidy …

      I gather the PM will already have met with Iwi Leaders on 3 February at Te Tii. I assume this involves his being welcomed?

      Perhaps the Te Tii marae committee should have said all along they don’t want any pakeha there on Waitangi Day? It’s their place.

      No doubt this would make Ngapuhi even more arrogant in Pakeha eyes? Sorry … eye.

      Pakeha can be welcomed if necessary at the Treaty grounds, the PM having already been welcomed at Te Tii (if my assumption is correct)

      Maori and Pakeha can celebrate together at the Treaty House and Grounds later and each talk politics if they want to.

      English’s (and his successors’) mana is preserved …

      Would this overcome the Pakeha obsessive-compulsive need to control the Maori-Pakeha relationship?

      Reply
      • “Would this overcome the Pakeha obsessive-compulsive need to control the Maori-Pakeha relationship?” How’s that. Many think its the other way around.

        Reply
        • That Maori have the control …? Really, do they? Or the compulsive-obsessive need to control?

          Is that what Kingi Taurua’s wavering opinion represents?
          Somehow I didn’t pick that up …

          Would you care to cite some examples traveller?

          Sounds rather like “culturally mature countries” to me …

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  January 12, 2017

          Yeah, that’s a bit of a strange view trav. People who think that really don’t have their feet on the ground & look around a lot imo.

          Reply
          • I don’t understand what you think is strange. Is it that I said some people think the opposite of the position tendered by pnz?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  January 12, 2017

              Oh, sorry. I luv ya like a sister trav. Didn’t mean to confuse. I just meant that if people think Maori are in control of the Maori-Pakeha relationship, they really need to get out more. Any disinterested outsider looking in I think would pretty quickly see who’s running things in NZ and it isn’t Maori.

            • PDB

               /  January 12, 2017

              In terms of re-writing NZ history Maori are well on top……..

  6. duperez

     /  January 12, 2017

    The whole business of Wellington politicians going to Waitangi inevitably meets up with the egos of locals. As much as we may say we should have a united NZ approach about Waitangi on Waitangi Day, that might not suit some locals for their own reasons. I say that without even thinking about those most famous for their protests on the days.

    Kingi Taurua might back the PM’s decision but what are his real reasons? Kaumātua of Te Tii Marae Rihari Dargaville was on RNZ early one day expressing his concern about the action of the marae people and supporting the PM. Later they added a bit describing him as a “senior National Party member.”

    There are a lot “internalising a very complicated situation in their heads” while many others see the situation and the factors in very simple terms.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 12, 2017

      It’s not complicated. Either you have good manners or you don’t.

      Reply
      • … and colonisation is the ultimate in bad manners ….

        Simple.

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  January 12, 2017

          Nor is eating other humans…….

          Reply
          • How many Pakeha got eaten again PDB …?

            Oh, but that’s right, we had to stop them eating each other …
            We, the morally superior White Man …

            We, who in 1837 still kept slaves and until 1823 executed people by hanging for picking pockets and stealing food. In In 1830 the death sentence was repealed for horse stealing and house burglary …

            “At the start of the Victorian period, [1837], executions were still carried out in public … [they] were public spectacles. The atmosphere could sometimes be quite festive, although riots occasionally broke out …

            At this time, the type of gallows used and the short drop resulted in death by strangulation, which could take several minutes before the victim lost consciousness.

            As the century progressed, it was realised that such a public spectacle did not deter criminals but encouraged troublemakers and allowed thieves easy pickings from the pockets of onlookers.”

            http://vcp.e2bn.org/justice/page11359-types-of-punishment-hanging.html

            Stick with ‘Right of Conquest’ PDB, you’re on much safer ground … although even Governor George Grey himself, who conducted the biggest ‘conquests’, would probably repudiate you.

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  January 12, 2017

              The problem you have PZ is you take a ‘good guys, bad guys’ attitude, when in actual fact in this instance Maori were no better than anybody else (including ‘white’ people) when it came to atrocities etc. The only reason they didn’t commit more atrocities is that they were too primitive and were stuck on an island with not that many people they could kill. However they gave it a crack where they could………

              The Moriori were non-violent and practised passive resistance.

              “Although the Moriori outnumbered the Māori, they chose to obey Nunuku’s Law of peace. They were nearly exterminated by the Māori. About 10% of the population was killed, some eaten, and the rest enslaved.”

              “The Maori] commenced to kill us like sheep…. [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed – men, women and children indiscriminately.”

              “The Taranaki tribes not only killed and enslaved the Moriori, but ate them as well.”

              “The use of the Moriori language was forbidden. The Moriori were forced to defile their ancient holy sites by urinating and defecating on them.”

              “While the invading Māori were waiting for the second ship to arrive, they killed a twelve year old girl and hung her flesh on posts – The Māori had a ritual that involved staking out women and children on the beach and leaving them for days to die painful deaths”

              Time to get off your high horse though I fear you are so far off the ground the fall may kill you.

            • PDB – Your Moriori example only confirms that many Pakeha will believe whatever reinforces their monocultural perception: Anything that denigrates Maori.

              Having failed with the old ‘Stone Age Culture’ argument – Cannibalism, Slavery, Genocide and Daughter Slaughter – you are now asserting inverse ‘Right of Conquest’ … Maori over Moriori …

              This justifies Pakeha conquest of Maori does it?

              So I guess you must be in favour of the current revival of Moriori culture, especially in light of their near extinction by Maori?

              “Many believed that Tommy Solomon, who died in 1933, was the last Moriori simply because he was the last known Moriori of full blood.

              Oh oh PDB …

              In the 1980s it began to be accepted that Moriori shared the same Polynesian ancestry as Māori, and had living descendants.

              Oh oh … here’s trouble Pantsdown …

              In the 1990s, Moriori began to rebuild their culture and identity.

              That’s a good thing eh PDB? Like Maori renaissance is good, eh?

              As a result of their claim to the Waitangi Tribunal –

              Oh no, Oh PDB, No! Not the Waitangi Tribunal!

              – the Moriori were recognised as the indigenous people of the Chatham Islands.

              Kojak: “Back away from the topic PDB … Just back away”

            • PDB

               /  January 12, 2017

              Took your time to reply PZ and no where in your diatribe do you admit that Maori are no better than the ‘white men’ you continually condemn. Just riddles and nonsense with no substance – typical.

              The fact that the Moriori live on DESPITE the best intentions of Maori to eradicate them somewhat eludes you.

            • Pakeha have treated Maori unequally and unfairly and mostly done so illegally.

              This is condemnation? I’m not sure it is condemnation. Pakeha stand accused of these historical Maori grievances. The Tribunal advises. The government accepts responsibility. Culpability. Apologises. Restitution is negotiated and paid.

              Okay PDB, Maori are no better than White Men.
              Therefore the inverse is true: White Men are no better than Maori.

              Maori have largely NOT treated Pakeha unequally and unfairly and done so illegally.

              Maori are different from Pakeha.
              Pakeha are different from Maori.
              Equal but different …

            • Maori live on despite the best intentions of Pakeha to eradicate them PDB … Whatever is your ‘lunar’ point?

            • PDB

               /  January 13, 2017

              PZ: “Maori live on despite the best intentions of Pakeha to eradicate them PDB”

              Do you even read the dribble you write? Don’t you always bang on about the ‘treaty’? How is signing a treaty with Maori then trying to ‘eradicate’ Maori?? Did Maori try to sign a peaceful treaty with the Moriori? No they tried to exterminate them – there lies your answer.

          • Gezza

             /  January 12, 2017

            I’m sorry, I’m getting confused. Are some of these activities being planned on both sides for Waitangi Day? I thought these things all pretty much stopped quite a while ago & they don’t happen now?

            Reply
            • No, they don’t happen now, but if they’d happened to your ancestors Gezza, do you think you’d remember? Especially if, for arguments sake, you had a bunch of insipient personal experiences as a victim of racism in your own life …

              These things did happen to a whole bunch of Maori peoples’ ancestors …

              Well, guess what? I’m a many generation Pakeha ‘Kiwi’. In a sense these things did happen to my ancestors too … Mine were on the other side …

              Try as we might its inescapable; Maori and Pakeha; subdued and dominant cultures. Different and treated differently, unequally and iniquitously for best part of 177 years. Ironically, its inescapable both because of and except for a document called Te Tiriti o Waitangi …

            • Gezza

               /  January 13, 2017

              My tribal ancestors’ lands were not taken from them by the English, though others’ around them were. It is not clear why that is but they were clearly not kupapa as the name is still well-respected in the homeland. But that was all in a far away place.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 12, 2017

          Hardly. Killing, enslaving, and speaking for hours in a language your guests don’t understand rank far worse.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 12, 2017

            … and in your case speaking rubbish in a language your guests do understand.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  January 13, 2017

            The answer is to learn Maori, which I confess I still have not done, but which means – as it the native language & it’s a shame I wasn’t offerred it @ skool instead of freaking latin (which was tits on a bull) – I therefore do not bitch about not understanding the native language because of my & other people’s laziness. I know just enuf French to accept their surrender if they ever try it on here & go up up against the 28th & a few mates.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 13, 2017

              I’m pretty sure that learning Maori wouldn’t make listening to PZ any less irritating, G.

            • Gezza

               /  January 13, 2017

              Having the French surrender on you when you thought you had an agreement to both see the huns off quick smart would’ve been irritating too Al. Just saying.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 13, 2017

              We have our own cheese-eating surrender monkeys, G. Here’s the big cheese at the Herald slobbering up to the EU:
              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11781302

            • Gezza

               /  January 13, 2017

              “At the same time, New Zealand needs to negotiate a new trade agreement with Britain. First, though, it has offered the expertise of its trade officials to help Britain negotiate new deals with the EU and with countries the UK has not dealt directly since joining the Common Market more than 40 years ago.”

              Well, at least we are trying to get them all get along.

            • Gezza

               /  January 13, 2017

              😡 *… help them all to get along. Soz, still upset about last night, probably. Need a bit of zen.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s