Open Forum – Saturday

21 January 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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48 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  21st January 2017

    Strange things city folk do in the US:
    Worry about climate change (supposedly, though polls usually show it at the bottom of the worry list. Like abortion, it attracts fanatics so it gets onto presidential websites despite that.) then pass laws banning clotheslines.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  21st January 2017

      I’d be all right-I don’t have one. I stand clothes horses outside because we never got around to replacing our useless clothesline. I suppose that they might count as clotheslines-the clothes dry free in the sun rather than using electricity that one has to buy.

      Reply
  2. Christians and Politics? Amongst all the one-sided op-eds – and so many opinion pieces masquerading as news – this guy makes some good points.
    “…many citizens and commentators have given up… on the idea of politics as a bipartisan attempt to achieve the common good. In the place of it, they’ve embraced a winner-takes-all mentality.”
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/20/three-things-every-christian-owes-president-trump.html

    Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  21st January 2017

    Global warming strikes again following “hottest year on record” as India fails to read its adjusted thermometers correctly:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-elephant-jumpers-villagers-knit-protect-near-freezing-temperatures-weather-mathura-a7535101.html

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  21st January 2017

      Cmon Alan, it’s ‘Climate Change’ nowadays, two words that incorporate anything that occurs with the climate and hence scientists can never be wrong. Put ‘man-made’ in front of it, spin tales of impending doom and the research money keeps rolling in.

      Be it the crap summer we are having here, hot temperatures in Aussie (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jan/18/eastern-australia-swelters-under-heatwave-as-hottest-january-on-record-looms), or the coldest snap in decades in Europe (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/winter-weather-photos-europe-hit-by-lowest-temperatures-decades-1600528) it’s all man-made climate change to blame.

      http://nypost.com/2017/01/19/spanish-towns-see-first-snowfall-in-decades/

      “Authorities in the southeastern resort town of Torrevieja say that emergency services are on alert for flooding. Intense sleet storms came hours after the first snowfalls in more than 90 years coated the town’s beaches white.

      In the nearby resort town of Denia, classes were suspended as rainstorms followed the first snowfalls in more than three decades”.

      http://www.dailysabah.com/turkey/2016/12/23/first-snow-in-more-than-2-decades-engulfs-antalya

      “Antalya, one of the rare year-round sunny spots in Turkey, was taken over by snowfall yesterday and Wednesday, the first such precipitation since 1993”.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/20/stunning-photos-capture-rare-snow-sahara-desert/

      “The last time snow was reportedly seen in Ain Sefra, known as ‘The Gateway to the Desert’, where the Atla mountains meet the Sahara Desert, was on February 18, 1979, when the snow storm lasted just half an hour”.

      Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  21st January 2017

        Well said pants. From anthropogenic global warming, to just global warming and now to climate change. The alarmists can never be wrong. Someone needs to call time on this nonsense and I think that man has just arrived.

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  21st January 2017

          An inconvenient truth about CO2;

          “Greenhouse gases form about 3% of the atmosphere by volume. They consist of varying amounts, about 96.5% is water vapour and clouds, with the remainder being trace gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O. CO2 constitutes about 0.037% of the atmosphere. And then the human portion of that 0.037% is incredibly small.

          But isn’t CO2 the most important of the greenhouse gases? Nope. Not even close. Most of the greenhouse effect is due to water vapor, which is about 100 times as abundant in the atmosphere as CO2 and thus has a much larger effect’.

          A very good resource here;

          http://www.iloveco2.com/2009/01/top-15-climate-myths.html

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  21st January 2017

            By itself that fact is not the issue. The relationship between CO2 (or simply atmospheric temperature) and water vapour is more crucial but far more complex given the reflectivity of clouds and circulation patterns of both atmosphere and oceans.

            It is also important to note that even the theoretical impact of CO2 becomes exponentially less as its concentration grows. The same quantified impact results from successive doubling as for the first but of course the amount of CO2 required for that becomes vastly greater.

            Reply
            • Conspiratoor

               /  21st January 2017

              It’s also important to acknowledge the role of the sun in terrestrial climate change

        • MaureenW

           /  21st January 2017

          The Climate Change page has been stripped from the White House website for starters

          Reply
          • That should make any possible problems go away.

            Will they strip any references to ISIS from the White House website too? Maybe they have found a revolutionary new way of making problems disappear.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  21st January 2017

              Since climate change consistently ranks at the bottom of polled lists of public concerns I guess more significant and urgent problems will be addressed.

            • Like building a wall? Is that on the White House website yet?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  21st January 2017

              Check it out for yourself, PG:
              https://www.whitehouse.gov/america-first-energy

            • One of the first things I saw was ‘the movement continues’. Does Trump really think he is leading a mass movement? Many of those who voted against the status quo are as likely as not to vote against him in four years unless he delivers on massive promises.

            • MaureenW

               /  21st January 2017

              Having it on their (along with ISIS) didn’t make it go away either

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  21st January 2017

              @PG, yes, I think Trump does believe he has a movement behind him. His big campaign audiences probably supported that belief. But it’s not an organised movement, just an emotional revolt against the old order which had discarded them and regarded them with contempt.

              I think you can measure Trump’s policy positions against the motivations and needs of that “movement” he has picked up on. He will work on those if he doesn’t get distracted by other crises. His supporters will judge him on his delivery and focus for them. If he abandons them, they will abandon him. I don’t think he intends to, but who knows what challenges fate will produce.

    • But there’s always other sides to climate change sstories.

      Ancient warm period hints at bigger sea level rise

      A study in the journal Science, however, said on Thursday that sea temperatures in a natural warm period about 125,000 years ago were “indistinguishable” from today, rather than up to 2degC hotter as previously thought.

      “The trend is worrisome as sea levels during the last interglacial period were between six and nine meters (20-30 ft) above their present height,” Science said of the findings led by Jeremy Hoffman at Oregon State University.

      The experts studied deep seabed sediments, containing chemical signals of temperatures, at 83 sites. It can take centuries or thousands of years for rising temperatures to thaw vast ice sheets.

      “The study suggests that, in the long term, sea levels will rise six metres at least in response to the warming we are causing,” said Andrew Watson, a professor at Britain’s University of Exeter who was not involved in the research.

      “The good news is that with luck it will continue to rise slowly so that we have time to adapt, but the bad news is that eventually all our present coastal city locations will be inundated,” he wrote in a comment.

      Anders Levermann, a professor at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, said the study was a hint both that ice sheets would melt at lower temperatures than previously expected and also more rapidly.

      “It could mean that sea levels will respond faster” to global warming, he told Reuters. He added that there were still many uncertainties about inferring rates of sea level rise from the pre-historic temperatures.

      Uncertainties for sure. And those uncertainties can work both ways – overestimating risks and effects, or underestimating them.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  21st January 2017

        As I said, one very big problem for climate science is long climate cycles and short reliable data series. The best way to track risk is to monitor changes closely and well. I’m sceptical of the global surface temperature series as there is too much interpolated and interpreted as well as plain missing data. The satellite technology surely has to be the future for measuring most global data series.

        Reply
  4. PDB

     /  21st January 2017

    Therefore your statement disagrees with the ‘science is settled’ mantra we are meant to believe?

    Reply
  5. Kitty Catkin

     /  21st January 2017

    Misery is a small dog standing looking through the door at the rain, knowing that he’ll be going out in it soon and watched to make sure that he does, and doesn’t just stand on the bottom step for a few seconds before coming back in.

    Reply
    • patupaiarehe

       /  21st January 2017

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  21st January 2017

        …but revenge in the form of jumping into the heartless human’s nice dry bed like this and hearing their reaction is very sweet.

        Reply
        • patupaiarehe

           /  21st January 2017


          Still waiting for you to ‘get your meme on’ Kitty…

          Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  21st January 2017

          No rain here yet. Supposed to get 17mm tonight, fingers crossed. Dogs just did their night walk in the wind. Cat went out after them. Horses were spooky in the wind earlier which stopped and then started again. Spotted a dead sheep in our friend’s paddock and texted them on their way home from Auckland. Got a strange feel as the weather changes after the long, long, fine spell.

          Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  21st January 2017

        It didn’t work when I tried it.

        Reply
  6. patupaiarehe

     /  21st January 2017

    Reply
  7. patupaiarehe

     /  22nd January 2017

    Still up G?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  22nd January 2017

      Nup. Fell asleep an hour ago patu.

      Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  22nd January 2017

        I thought as much. Piker! 😉

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  22nd January 2017

          Underneath this rock hard exterior I’m actually quite sensitive & that really hurts.
          I’m not the greatest fan of ‘heavy’ music, but Tool have definitely got something & I quite like some of their stuff. I gots to to go, my bro, and sleep some mo’. Don’t tell anybody what time it is. Catchya tomorra. 💋

          Reply
          • patupaiarehe

             /  22nd January 2017

            I promise not to tell that its quarter to two G…Oh, oops… 😀
            Check this one out, Labour might have half a chance, if they ‘adopt’ it as a theme song. Beats the hell out of the Nats attempt at piracy the last time… 😀

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  22nd January 2017

              Bastard. I even accidentally repeated a ‘to’ in my previous post in my haste to get it up there before you posted another one. Now look, BRO, I’ll listen to this one and that’s IT! 😉

              Last thing I want is for dave & AC to see that double ‘to’ or even worse another cock up made in desperation to stop you feeding my music addiction!

            • patupaiarehe

               /  22nd January 2017

              I’m glad you brought up the ‘to’ thing G. I thought you had a stutter, and would have felt rude mentioning it. I blame the ipad 😉

            • patupaiarehe

               /  22nd January 2017

              One more, just coz’ I can. I can’t believe that you’ve never heard of Chevelle…

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