Open Forum – Sunday

22 January 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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80 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  22nd January 2017

    The summer dawn breaks in North Welly with yet more leaden skies, horizontal pluviation, and howling sea breezes slamming as yet not fully flight-qualified fledglings into the trunks of trees.

    Reply
    • Little wind but much rain here in Dunedin.

      Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  22nd January 2017

        Some precipitation overnight. Sir Al to provide metrics later. Three drops of gods champagne added back to the sunday morning nip in celebration

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  22nd January 2017

          Lot of wind and rain when we hit the sack about midnight but just a few gusts and dry now. Will have to wait till I read the rain gauge to see what we got but it was definitely worthwhile and should grow a bit of grass for the horses and other folk’s sheep and cattle.

          Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  22nd January 2017

          Very glad tidings from the rain gauge – a healthy 50 mm of much needed water last night. Morning is clear and breezy so I think we can wave the 1 mm forecast away. Time to walk the dogs and share our crop of tomatoes all ripened at once with friends.

          Reply
          • Two inches should be a decent drought breaker.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  22nd January 2017

            Unbelievable. The weather here is just getting worse & worse. The wind’s roaring & the rain’s pounding the house & patio. I’ve abandoned any thoughts of feeding Mr Pooky & Mrs Pook Pukeko & assorted mallard hens in the stream, which is now a raging brown torrent.

            Reply
            • Pickled Possum

               /  22nd January 2017

              Rain Glorious Rain and I had Plenty of it
              Well I must not skite butt I am stoked.
              Collection tank filled to brim and the biggy up the hill filled to top
              Sigh … my 3rd world water problems solved, today.
              Veggie plants are growing as I watch.

              After a 6 week drought and bad management has the rain fallen
              enough in Mangawhai and Kaiwaka???
              May their tanks be filled to the brim.
              I heard there was ‘water theft’ in a town
              With culprits caught in the ‘ACT’
              According to the neighbours of the 4 square owners
              2 people had used the OUTSIDE tap
              to help themselves to the liquid gold.

              Don’t they know that they are to suffer the little children
              Who ask for a drink from the tap or a squirt with the hose to cool down,
              To the mother of a new born who didn’t want to use plastic nappies
              but has No water to wash her cotton cloth ones.
              A new Sophie’s choice?
              To the great Unwashed of Kaipara District is your mantra to be …
              Limited Achievements coming at you via Kaipara DC once again.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  22nd January 2017

            My wife wants to know why anyone lives in Welly, G? Can you enlighten her?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  22nd January 2017

              Parents who need me & effectively can’t & won’t leave it, Alan. And last year was a cracker & I love my current location when you can’t beat Wellington on a good day. The air is clear, if occasionally excessively turbulent. It has several engaging characters among the population, cafes, and Te Papa, & a stunningly beautiful harbour at any time of the day or night. But that’s possibly about it.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd January 2017

              You are a good man, G. Wellington doesn’t deserve you but your parents do. I think it’s time Wellington developed underground malls and railway stations so its captives don’t have to face the tornadoes.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  22nd January 2017

              Why? Simply to prove it can be done Al. For no other reason

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd January 2017

              Why ? Why wouldn’t anyone want to live there ? It’s a glorious place to live and if I could afford a house there, I’d be back tomorrow.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  22nd January 2017

            @PG, yes, certainly helped all the water tanks. The problem with a single dose of heavy rain is it tends to bounce off the concrete-hard clay and run away. It’s better to have slow gentle rain for a day or so first to soften it up. We did have a bit a week ago though so here’s hoping.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd January 2017

              PP, you are taling nonsense about the water theft.

              It was at least two groups of people.We know nothing about who they were, so your sentimentalism was based upon nothing.

              The drought is affecting everyone, so taking someone else’s water is a very mean theft. If the shop had an unlimited supply, this would be very different. I can’t believe that anyone’s children are in such dire need of a drink that the parents have to steal water-or that wanting a splash from a hose to cool down does, either. How would they put the water into the hose ?

              The shop is also a bakery, it needs water to function and it is on tank water like everyone else so was almost out of water for its own needs.This water was part of the small amount that they had left to keep the place going.

              The owner and his family have to go to a farmer friend to have showers and borrow water for their own needs. The shop doesn’t have a bore, and when its water runs out, it will have have to close.

              Ever since we had a few water outages, I have made sure that I keep emergency supplies. These haven’t been needed for a long time, but they are still there just in case.

  2. Gezza

     /  22nd January 2017

    Paru was right though. The miserable beggar has to buy friends with tomatoes.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  22nd January 2017

      * Damn. God got me for that one. Patu.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd January 2017

        Serves you right, G. As does your weather. I’ll go back to my laundry now.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  22nd January 2017

          I’m not surprised your good lady banishes you to that location Al.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  22nd January 2017

            Al Jazeera has just clarified what the protest is about. Racism, misogyny, and sexism.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  22nd January 2017

            I suspect it proves it’s actually men who can do anything, G.

            Reply
    • patupaiarehe

       /  22nd January 2017

      That’s not very nice of you G. I’m sure that Alan is top bloke, when he isn’t discussing politics… 😀

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  22nd January 2017

        I believe His Lordship does have some praiseworthy qualities buried deeply beneath a brusque & gruff exterior, but revealed during musings upon nature, his dogs, and horses.

        Reply
  3. FREE SPEECH FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT THREATEN FREE SPEECH. I have been thinking about this blog’s guiding philosophy in the context of the Liberal=Democratic or should I say Progressive feminist reaction to the election of President Trump. The words, denial, hate, obsession, organised defiance, out of control, unethical behaviour, extremest behaviour, plain criminality have all flashed through my mind, as I revisit the causes of the current global marches.

    When one looks at it, an election has been held, and a candidate has been elected in accordance with the electoral law of the US. However this result has been the catalyst fr organised opposition on a global stage to the winning Candidate. Immediately the word anarchy flashes to my mind. It is not acceptable in a democracy that the losers be permitted to change the result by any course other than the application of the Constitutional law as it applies in that democracy. So we ask, at what point does the reaction against this organised opposition start, and in what form. It seems to me that the US is rapidly approaching a cross road where free speech seems to be one-sided in its interpretation.

    It is one thing to say that you do not like or accept the result, but it is an entirely different thing when you start to organise active opposition to a legitimate leader. That is revolution and that is a threat to the free speech of those who elected resident Trump, and sadly, an element of NZ Society are guilty of denying the exercise of freedom of expression to legitimate electors in the US. To what purpose? One comment in an old video made by a younger and probably less sensible person has been blown totally out of proportion and has become the reason for hate speech against President Trump. Who is threatening fee speech now? Where does it end, and will there still be free speech for all?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  22nd January 2017

      I think free speech will continue to prevail there Bj. The constitution & tradition are too strongly embedded in the national psyche for it not to, despite the example of the dark days of McCarthyism – which you will recall ended in his rejection by the people, the media & the politicians.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd January 2017

        Both here and there I think we are seeing the consequences of hysterical partisan election coverage in the MSM. Not only has it made the election result incomprehensible to its readers but has inflamed the political divide hugely.

        Also of course the professional feminists were anticipating their first female president and are bitterly disappointed at that.

        Reply
    • Anonymous Coward

       /  22nd January 2017

      @bj You seem to think that free speech is only a right for those who agree with you. The million woman march is an exercise of free speech, and it’s in no way the first time people have taken to the streets to register their disapproval of an unpopular leader.

      If you parse “FREE SPEECH FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT THREATEN FREE SPEECH”
      you’ll find that it’s meaningless. Free speech is a right, it can’t be threatened. What that line is trying to say is that some speech is freer than other speech, which is also ridiculous. The only antidote for speech you don’t like is more speech.

      Reply
      • Anon, I disavow any claim that suggests that free speech is only for those who agree with me – for instance I allow you to say something about me that is baseless. But that is your right. On the other hand when you exercise the right to speak freely you also have an obligation to show evidence of what you claim is true.

        Reply
        • Anonymous Coward

           /  22nd January 2017

          You don’t allow me anything, I have every right to formulate an opinion of your diatribe.
          You say “That is revolution and that is a threat to the free speech of those who elected resident Trump” There is no threat to those who elected Trump, they spoke, he was elected. Calling the free speech of those that don’t approve ‘revolution’ and ‘anarchy’ implies that you believe that speech should not be spoken.

          Reply
          • Diatribe? I think now it is more a monologue and we are obviously speaking past each other. So organised actions to unseat a legally elected President that has been announced by a range of Liberal Progressive Groups is not a threat against President Trump? How about the group who are putting together the Impeachment case against him? It is at least a revolt, if not a revolution.

            Reply
          • Anonymous Coward

             /  22nd January 2017

            Impeachment is a legal process, not a free speech issue. A president can only be impeached for very specific things, they will either succeed or fail. I understand there may be reason to believe that Trump has or intends to break some impeachable rules.
            I can’t be sure what “organised actions’ by “progressive liberals” you’re talking about. You’d have to be more specific.

            Reply
      • MaureenW

         /  22nd January 2017

        I thought the antidote was political correctness – sucked up by fools for the last 15 years.

        Reply
  4. patupaiarehe

     /  22nd January 2017

    Kitty & I were discussing distracted drivers on Friday, and I related to her how many people I have seen texting while behind the wheel. This is a tragic reminder of why it’s not really a good idea. You may get away with it 99 times out of 100, but that one time you don’t, can really hurt….
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11785838

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  22nd January 2017

      I wish the cops would stop trying to defend the stupid law by pretending the risks of texting and talking are comparable. They are not. Taking your eyes off the road to text is a totally different level of risk compared with talking. Cops’ b.s. needs to stop because misinformation kills.

      Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  22nd January 2017

        I agree Alan. I still talk on my phone while driving, despite the law, because my eyes are on the road. Texting, however, is thoroughly irresponsible IMHO.

        Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  22nd January 2017

      That was a very sad read Patupaiarehe, that young man is still hurting. 😦

      “Between January and September 2016, almost 22,000 drivers were pinged for using a mobile phone while driving, amounting to $1.7 million in fines.
      In comparison, 18,600 drivers were caught drink driving in the same period.”

      That is an eye opener that 22 thousand people paid $1.7 million in fines, where does that money end up, to whom does it go to?

      Jez I feel a research coming on. And what do the 18,600 DD fiends pay? jail, fines, loss of licence.

      @ Al I agree with what you write re talking and texting not being comparable. Because you would not be able to say to your beloved wife while driving, If there were 4 lanes we would be in Auckland by now and not behind this ‘@#$%^&*()?’ slow driver.

      Imagine hopping into your car and then having to sticky tape your mouth to stay within the law. Hands free phones will be a part of the future for all sensible drivers imho.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd January 2017

        Phones are also clever enough to read and send texts via spoken word already. People should be encouraged to use technology properly instead of idiots talking b.s. which the public ignore.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  22nd January 2017

          The money goes into general government funds, as is well known and $1,700,000 would be a tiny % of what road crashes cost.

          Nobody will be obliged to drive in silence, of course. But anyone who drives and looks at a screen is an idiot.

          Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  22nd January 2017

      Patu, I had heard of drivers and passengers using sign language-which means facing each other, of course-and a while ago I saw it for myself. Driving along in Auckland city., look, Mum, no hands (on the wheel), driver facing the passengers beside and behind him as he and they yakked away in sign language….The passengers were doing it at first, then the driver joined in. How to give other drivers heart failure. ‘Red light ? what red……

      Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  22nd January 2017

    I’m having a chuckle, the drones are getting wound up over on kiwiblog,due to the women’s march,they hate them.but men surrender when female legs have been closed to them for months. So kiwiblog posters are either gay or women bashers or posters whose reality hasn’t smacked them around the face yet

    Reply
    • patupaiarehe

       /  22nd January 2017

      Good to know that your Mrs doesn’t ‘smack you around’, Lurch…. 😀

      Reply
  6. patupaiarehe

     /  22nd January 2017

    That is an eye opener that 22 thousand people paid $1.7 million in fines, where does that money end up, to whom does it go to?

    That’s a very good question Possum. I imagine it is probably spent on those silly billboards, that seem to pop up every few kilometers on our State Highways. I saw one the other day that said something like “Keep your eyes on the road”. Surely it would be a lot easier to do so, if I wasn’t repeatedly distracted by silly billboards…
    I also imagine that the unfortunate 22,000 who got tickets, had their phone held to their ear, where it is easily seen by the law. Those who sneakily hold their mobile below window level, and repeatedly look at it, most likely escaped without consequences. Most of the time, anyway….

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  22nd January 2017

      Yep, silly laws always penalise the wrong people. If only our cops had more brains.

      Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  22nd January 2017

        Don’t blame the cops Alan, they don’t write the laws, they just enforce them…

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  22nd January 2017

          No, they don’t, patu. They advocate for them both before and after they have been passed. They are the biggest and best funded political organisation in the country by far.

          Reply
          • patupaiarehe

             /  22nd January 2017

            Jeezus Alan, cynical much??? You are confusing the behaviour of those in ‘ivory towers’, with the reality facing the poor constable in his patrol car, who most likely had to scrape some unfortunate individual off the road just yesterday…

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd January 2017

              I’m not confusing them at all. Most of the constables are simple decent folk trying to do a good job. The ones in the ivory towers are those who front the media and in general are a bunch of professional and very experienced liars and political operatives.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  22nd January 2017

              I can’t argue with that Alan. Touche’, e hoa

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd January 2017

              If anyone doesn’t want to pay the fine,. they shouldn’t break the law.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd January 2017

              Silly laws should be broken. Just don’t get caught unnecessarily. But texting while driving is inexcusably dangerous and stupid unless you are doing it with verbal commands.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd January 2017

              All lawbreakers think that the laws that they break are silly. Burglars think that burglary’s all right. Drunk drivers think that they are all right. Lou Girardin has written that he should be able to set his own drink-drive limit as well as his own speed limit because he’s a safe driver and isn’t dangerous when he drinks or speeds.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  22nd January 2017

              Lou might have to reconsider his opinion, after his head goes thru his windscreen….

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd January 2017

              I’ve far outlived two of the talking heads that used to lecture us on road safety via TV – and both died on the roads, Kitty. Strange karma.

              Probably most lawbreakers do regard the laws they break as silly, because the vast majority of law-breaking is of silly laws. The question is whether the lawbreaking is intelligent and harmless.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  22nd January 2017

              Seeing as how you are still alive, & as irritating as ever Alan, I’m guessing that you have only broken laws intelligently, & harmlessly… 😛

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  23rd January 2017

              That is my diligent endeavour, patu. I figure you can’t be alive if you don’t break at least one stupid regulation or law every day.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  23rd January 2017

              Funny Alan. I was trying to search my brain for reasons that I might like you, and you’ve just ‘summed it up’, in two sentences.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  23rd January 2017

              Glad to be of service, patu. Now I must hit the sack ready to push more paper at the accountant tomorrow.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  23rd January 2017

              Try not to ‘hit your sack’ too hard Alan 😀

          • Conspiratoor

             /  22nd January 2017

            Nonsense Al, Disingenuous. You tar them all with the same brush when you use the royal ‘They’ in reply to pat’s reference to cops. I have two cops very close to me and neither are interested in revenue gathering initiatives. I can assure you that you would be happy to see either of them in untoward circumstances and they would be happy to attend to your needs

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd January 2017

              Their ivory tower tars them all with the same brush when its senior members talk nonsense and advocate for stupidity. My original reference about more brains was intended for their top management, certainly not the guys at the coal face.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  22nd January 2017

              Too right C. I was at the ‘arse end’ of a really bad situation, a few years back, and the cops thought I was the offender. They soon enough figured out I wasn’t, when I threw my hands above my head, and told him “don’t try to cop a feel mate, but she is more than welcome to!”.
              Those fucktards, in their ivory towers, should get out more often…

            • patupaiarehe

               /  23rd January 2017

              One has to appreciate how ‘the other half lives’. The cops at the ‘coal face’ don’t know what they are getting into, and need to be suspicious of any situation. I don’t harbour any animosity for the cop who pointed a pistol at my head. He was told to go to a rural address, in the middle of the night, because someone (not me!) had threatened to shoot someone else (not me either!). As much as I dislike their employers, the two cops I dealt with that night, were completely reasonable, once they realised that I was. 5 minutes after pointing a gun at me, the bugger ‘bummed’ a ciggy off me! Better work stories alright….:D

  7. patupaiarehe

     /  22nd January 2017

    Here’s one for you G. I’d never heard of them until today, when dirty old google snuck them onto my playlist. Enjoy, e hoa…

    I’m off to cook dinner…

    Reply
  8. Kitty Catkin

     /  22nd January 2017

    The poor baby is dead in the Melbourne car killing is dead now.

    If the killers’ mother is anything to go by, they must be the most dysfunctional family in Australia. That news item was unbelievable.

    Reply
    • patupaiarehe

       /  22nd January 2017

      Yes Kitty, what a shame he was only shot in the leg…

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  23rd January 2017

        Yes and no. If someone’s shot dead, they can’t say why they did it. He will have a nice time inside-I don’t think. Babykillers are not popular inmates.

        They sound a dreadful family. Mother wasn’t so shattered that she hadn’t had her long red nails done. One brother sounds as bad as the other.

        Those people who were there will never be the same again.

        Reply
  9. PDB

     /  22nd January 2017

    Interesting thoughts below on what will be the next big public ‘scare’ (not including Trump of course);

    “Now that Trump is President, what will replace the dying climate crisis narrative?

    The replacement scare has to be a comparatively new field, with vast knowledge gaps which can be filled with wild speculation disguised as expert opinion. It must plausibly threaten the lives and security of ordinary people – to attract research funding. The exaggerated risks must have the potential to engage public imagination. The new scare must be radically different from previous scares – otherwise people will see it as recycled CO2 hype (think the methane scare). And the new scare must have the support of popular culture – Hollywood must get on board, to help spread the fear.

    There is a crisis narrative which ticks all these boxes – the rising threat of uncontrolled artificial intelligence”.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/01/21/the-next-eco-scare-story/

    Reply
    • The climate change issue won’t go away. Just because Trump wants to squash climate science it doesn’t mean the rest of the world will.

      Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  22nd January 2017

        Yup, it won’t go away. Too many ‘stakeholders’ have a financial interest in it, to let the myth die…

        Reply
      • PDB

         /  23rd January 2017

        It is already dying PG, many people moving on as the world hasn’t fallen over by now as computers predicted & the ‘cry wolf’ syndrome takes effect. Climate change is here to stay, man-made climate change not so much.

        Reply
  10. patupaiarehe

     /  22nd January 2017

    I’ve just introduced Jr to this one G, & he loves it! As much as he enjoys playing lead, he likes even better to turn his amp up to max, & create a ‘wall of sound’…

    Reply

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