Trump’s ‘voter fraud’ ego-obsession

Donald Trump’s claims of massive voter fraud are unsupported by evidence and debunked by experts. Some of his claims are plain ridiculous, not just the numbers (the millions claim happens to be about the size of Hillary Clinton’s overall vote majority over Trump)  but also that all fraudulent votes were for Clinton.

So far there have been four prosecutions for voter fraud, and two of them voted Republican.

From Trump’s interview on ABC with David Muir trump continued with his claims:

DAVID MUIR: I wanna ask you about something you said this week right here at the White House. You brought in congressional leaders to the White House. You spoke at length about the presidential election with them — telling them that you lost the popular vote because of millions of illegal votes, 3 to 5 million illegal votes. That would be the biggest electoral fraud in American history. Where is the evidence of that?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: So, let me tell you first of all, it was so misrepresented. That was supposed to be a confidential meeting. And you weren’t supposed to go out and talk to the press as soon as you — but the Democrats viewed it not as a confidential meeting.

DAVID MUIR: But you have tweeted …about the millions of illegals …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Sure. And I do — and I’m very … and I mean it. But just so you — it was supposed to be a confidential meeting. They turned it into not a con … Number two, the conversation lasted for about a minute. They made it — somebody said it was, like, 25 percent of the … It wasn’t. It was hardly even discussed.

I said it. And I said it strongly because what’s going on with voter fraud is horrible. That’s number one. Number two, I would’ve won the popular vote if I was campaigning for the popular vote. I would’ve gone to California where I didn’t go at all. I would’ve gone to New York where I didn’t campaign at all.

I would’ve gone to a couple of places that I didn’t go to.

But Clinton wasn’t campaigning for the popular vote either. She was concentrating on the crucial swing states, like Trump.

And I would’ve won that much easier than winning the electoral college.

Typically brash over-confidence.

But as you know, the electoral college is all that matters. It doesn’t make any difference.

So why his obsession with the popular vote then? As is common, his words and actions are contradictory.

So, I would’ve won very, very easily. But it’s a different form of winning. You would campaign much differently. You would have a totally different campaign. So, but … you’re just asking a question. I would’ve easily won the popular vote, much easier, in my opinion, than winning the electoral college. I ended up going to 19 different states. I went to the state of Maine four times for one. I needed one.

I went to M — I got it, by the way. But it turned out I didn’t need it because we ended up winning by a massive amount, 306. I needed 270. We got 306. You and everybody said, “There’s no way you get to 270.” I mean, your network said and almost everybody said, “There’s no way you can get to …” So, I went to Maine four times. I went to various places. And that’s the beauty of the electoral college.

He didn’t win by a ‘massive amount’ – in fact he won based on a few thousand votes in each of a few key states. Winning electoral margins in the last ten elections:

  • 2016 Trump 306-232
  • 2012 Obama 332-206
  • 2008 Obama 365-173
  • 2004 GW Bush 286-251
  • 2000 GW Bush 271-266
  • 1996 Bill Clinton 379-159
  • 1992 Bill Clinton 370-168
  • 1988 G Bush 426-111
  • 1984 Reagan 525-13
  • 1980 Reagan 489-49

Being registered in more than one state is not illegal, it’s common. Many people don’t realise they didn’t de-register from one state when moving and registering in another.

It’s only illegal if they vote on more than one state, and there’s no evidence of that.

With that being said, if you look at voter registration, you look at the dead people that are registered to vote who vote, you look at people that are registered in two states, you look at all of these different things that are happening with registration. You take a look at those registration for — you’re gonna s — find — and we’re gonna do an investigation on it.

Media have already been investigating, and have found that these people are registered in two states:

  • Tiffany Trump (Trump’s youngest daughter)
  • Jared Kushner (Trump’s son-in-law)
  • Sean Spicer (White House press secretary)
  • Steven Mnuchin (Treasury Secretary nominee)
  • Stephen Barron (chief White House strategist)

So much for Barron being a genius strategist. Perhaps he has no control over Trump’s egocentric excesses.

DAVID MUIR: But 3 to 5 million illegal votes?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, we’re gonna find out. But it could very well be that much. Absolutely.


PRESIDENT TRUMP: But we’re gonna find out.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: In fact, I heard one of the other side, they were saying it’s not 3 to 5. It’s not 3 to 5. I said, “Well, Mr. Trump is talking about registration, tell–” He said, “You know we don’t wanna talk about registration.” They don’t wanna talk about registration.

You have people that are registered who are dead, who are illegals, who are in two states. You have people registered in two states. They’re registered in a New York and a New Jersey. They vote twice. There are millions of votes, in my opinion. Now …

Kushner is registered in both New Jersey and New York, as is Tiffany Trump.

DAVID MUIR: But again …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: I’m doing an …PRESIDENT TRUMP: … investigation. David, David, David …

DAVID MUIR: You’re now, you’re now president of the United States when you say …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Of course, and I want the voting process to be legitimate.

DAVID MUIR: But what I’m asking …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: The people that …

DAVID MUIR: … what I’m asking that — when you say in your opinion millions of illegal votes, that is something that is extremely fundamental to our functioning democracy, a fair and free election.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Sure. Sure. Sure.

DAVID MUIR: You say you’re gonna launch an investigation.


It was thought that an investigation would be officially announced yesterday but that didn’t happen.

NZ Daily News: Vice President Mike Pence told members of Congress that the Trump administration will launch a “full evaluation” of U.S. voting rolls and “the overall integrity of our voting system,” according to a leaked audio recording.

DAVID MUIR: What you have presented so far has been debunked. It’s been called …false.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, it hasn’t. Take a look at the Pew reports.

DAVID MUIR: I called the author of the Pew report last night. And he told me that they found no evidence of voter … fraud.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Really? Then why did he write the report?

DAVID MUIR: He said no evidence of voter fraud.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Excuse me, then why did he write the report? According to Pew report, then he’s — then he’s groveling again. You know, I always talk about the reporters that grovel when they wanna write something that you wanna hear but not necessarily millions of people wanna hear or have to hear.

Bizarre, but typically so.

DAVID MUIR: So, you’ve launched an investigation?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: We’re gonna launch an investigation to find out. And then the next time — and I will say this, of those votes cast, none of ’em come to me. None of ’em come to me. They would all be for the other side. None of ’em come to me. But when you look at the people that are registered: dead, illegal and two states and some cases maybe three states — we have a lot to look into.

DAVID MUIR: House Speaker Paul Ryan has said, “I have seen no evidence. I have made this very, very clear.” Senator Lindsey Graham saying, “It’s the most inappropriate thing for a president to say without proof. He seems obsessed with the idea that he could not have possibly lost the popular vote without cheating and fraud.”

I wanna ask you about something bigger here. Does it matter more now …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: There’s nothing bigger. There’s nothing bigger.

Bigger to him perhaps, but I doubt that most voters care – especially those who voted for him, successfully.

DAVID MUIR: But it is important because …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Let me just tell you, you know what’s important, millions of people agree with me when I say that if you would’ve looked on one of the other networks and all of the people that were calling in they’re saying, “We agree with Mr. Trump. We agree.” They’re very smart people.

Claiming that millions of people agree with him on this, without any proof of course.

The people that voted for me — lots of people are saying they saw things happen. I heard stories also. But you’re not talking about millions. But it’s a small little segment. I will tell you, it’s a good thing that we’re doing because at the end we’re gonna have an idea as to what’s going on. Now, you’re telling me Pew report has all of a sudden changed. But you have other reports and you have other statements. You take a look at the registrations, how many dead people are there? Take a look at the registrations as to the other things that I already presented.

He has presented little other than nonsense.

Dead people tend to not de-register themselves. They also tend not to vote.

DAVID MUIR: And you’re saying …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: And you’re gonna find …

DAVID MUIR: … those people who are on the rolls voted, that there are millions of illegal votes?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: I didn’t say there are millions. But I think there could very well be millions of people. That’s right.

He contradicts himself, he denied and then he agreed.

DAVID MUIR: You tweeted though …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: And I also say this …

DAVID MUIR: … you tweeted, “If you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally, I won the popular vote.”

PRESIDENT TRUMP: David, and I also say this, if I was going for the popular vote I would’ve won easily. But I would’ve been in California and New York. I wouldn’t have been in Maine. I wouldn’t have been in Iowa. I wouldn’t have been in Nebraska and all of those states that I had to win in order to win this. I would’ve been in New York, I would’ve been in California. I never even went there.

If the election was for popular vote both trump and Clinton would have campaigned much differently, and voters would have thought differently. It’s impossible to predict what the outcome could have been.

DAVID MUIR: Let me just ask you, you did win. You’re the president. You’re sitting …


DAVID MUIR: … across from me right now.


DAVID MUIR: Do you think that your words matter more now?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Yes, very much.

DAVID MUIR: Do you think that that talking about millions of illegal votes is dangerous to this country without presenting the evidence?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, not at all. Not at all because many people feel the same way that I do. And …

So as long as he thinks many people agree with him it doesn’t matter if he talks unsubstantiated crap?

DAVID MUIR: You don’t think it undermines your credibility if there’s no evidence?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, not at all because they didn’t come to me. Believe me. Those were Hillary votes. And if you look at it they all voted for Hillary. They all voted for Hillary. They didn’t vote for me. I don’t believe I got one. Okay, these are people that voted for Hillary Clinton. And if they didn’t vote, it would’ve been different in the popular.

He is claiming millions of fraudulent voters all voted for Hillary.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Now, you have to understand I — I focused on those four or five states that I had to win. Maybe she didn’t. She should’ve gone to Michigan. She thought she had it in the bag. She should’ve gone to Wisconsin, she thought she had it because you’re talking about 38 years of, you know, Democrat wins. But they didn’t. I went to Michigan, I went to Wisconsin. I went to Pennsylvania all the time. I went to all of the states that are — Florida and North Carolina. That’s all I focused on.

He is right here, the Clinton campaign did stuff up on Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, but I think she tried hard in Florida and North Carolina.

DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, it does strike me though that we’re relitigating the presidential campaign, the election …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, no. We’re looking at it for the next time. No, no, you have to understand, I had a tremendous victory, one of the great victories ever. In terms of counties I think the most ever or just about the most ever. When you look at a map it’s all red. Red meaning us, Republicans.

One of the greatest victories ever.

The greatest victory ever for Trump. Otherwise the voting margins were nothing spectacular.

But, again, I ran for the electoral college. I didn’t run for the popular vote. What I’m saying is if there are these problems that many people agree with me that there might be. Look, Barack Obama — if you look back — eight years ago when he first ran — he was running for office in Chicago for we needed Chicago vote.

And he was laughing at the system because he knew all of those votes were going to him. You look at Philadelphia, you look at what’s going on in Philadelphia. But take a look at the tape of Barack Obama who wrote me, by the way, a very beautiful letter in the drawer of the desk. Very beautiful. And I appreciate it. But look at what he said, it’s on tape. Look at what he said about voting in Chicago eight years ago. It’s not changed. It hasn’t changed, believe me. Chicago, look what’s going on in Chicago. It’s only gotten worse.

But he was smiling and laughing about the vote in Chicago. Now, once he became president he didn’t do that. All of a sudden it became this is the foundation of our country. So, here’s the point, you have a lot of stuff going on possibly. I say probably. But possibly. We’re gonna get to the bottom of it.

And then we’re gonna make sure it doesn’t happen again. If people are registered wrongly, if illegals are registered to vote, which they are, if dead people are registered to vote and voting, which they do. There are some. I don’t know how many.

I can guess how many dead people voted.

We’re gonna try finding that out and the other categories that we talk about, double states where they’re — registered in two states, we’re gonna get to the bottom of it because we have to stop it. Because I agree, so important. But the other side is trying to downplay this. Now, I’ll say this — I think that if that didn’t happen, first of all, would — would be a great thing if it didn’t happen. But I believe it did happen. And I believe a part of the vote would’ve been much different.

He claimed it was important to investigate to make sure it doesn’t happen again, but then swung back to his main focus, “a part of the vote would’ve been much different”.

DAVID MUIR: And you believe millions of illegal votes …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, we’re gonna find out.

DAVID MUIR: Let me ask you this …

PRESIDENT TRUMP: We’re gonna find out. And — and, by the way, when I say you’re gonna find out. You can never really find, you know, there are gonna be — no matter what numbers we come up with there are gonna be lots of people that did things that we’re not going to find out about. But we will find out because we need a better system where that can’t happen.

So he is going to find out what “you can never really find out about”.

In doing so he is taking a risk. If he does launch an investigation and it doesn’t back up his claims then his ego and credibility will take hits.

His bizarre and contradictory claims about voter fraud are damaging his credibility already.

Trump’s ego-obsession is proving to be a major distraction, and none of his advisers seem to be able to stop him.



  1. duperez

     /  January 28, 2017

    It happened. In some senses it doesn’t matter how he got there, Trump got there.

    The phenomenon will be studied, but quite simply many people wanted him many did not not want him enough to vote for his key rival.

    Of more importance than shaking the head to clear it and asking “How the hell did that happen?” is strategising to manage around the fact. It could be that the prime reason for that is survival, it could be that the prime reason is to avoid unprecedented civil disorder in attempts to “rein” him in.

  2. Joe Bloggs

     /  January 28, 2017

    Not simply a stubby-fingered, pussy-grabbing vulgarian, but an incoherent babbler as well.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  January 28, 2017

      Dead people are automatically taken off the roll here, I think-I don’t remember notifying the electoral wossname when my husband died. His papers just didn’t come any more. If this is the case, and it’s the case in the US, anyone trying to register as a dead person is taking a great risk. They’d have to be the same age, of course, and be doing it with the dead person’s ID. You’re________ Catkin; that’s odd, Mr Catkin died last year.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 28, 2017

        I can’t see that many people risking it. If someone’s in a country illegally, would they even be able to vote ? Who’d risk being caught ?

  3. Conspiratoor

     /  January 28, 2017

    Reagan eviscerated the demos second time round. Donald has a similar grasp of the issues that affect ordinary folks and has blown the demos out of the senate and house. So I wouldn’t be surprised if he achieves the same result in 2020

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  January 28, 2017

      I suspect that ordinary people are not impressed-especially when Trump’s daughter is doing what he is frothing at the mouth about other people doing !