Open Forum – Monday

30 January 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.
  • Debate hard if you like but respect people’s right to have varying views and to not be personally be attacked.
  • Don’t say to a stranger online anything you wouldn’t say to their face.

Moderation will be minimal if these guidelines are followed. Should they ever be necessary any moderator edits, deletes or bans will be clearly and openly advised unless obviously malicious from anyone breaching site protocols, or spam.

62 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 30, 2017

    Democrat, ex-Nato supreme commander, supports Trump’s willingness to cooperate with Russia:
    http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316708-former-nato-commander-us-should-cooperate-with-russia-whenever

  2. Conspiratoor

     /  January 30, 2017

    Nudging 30 deg. Too hot to blog, wiil leave it to the southern men …and Al

    • Gezza

       /  January 30, 2017

      Fairy Nuff. Al can be wrong enough on his own. He doesn’t need anyone else’s assistance.
      Nice calm day in North Welly, so the gentle light rain is falling vertically for a change.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 30, 2017

        Guests left today, more in tomorrow, so laundry busy. Good drying day, warm and breezy. All good here. Time to wind G up between loads.

        • Gezza

           /  January 30, 2017

          Some kind of difference of opinion between the green beaks & the orange beaks down in the stream. A lot of agitated quacking, few bits of down flying around. All hens. The drakes might be bigger, but they just looked shocked & paddled out of it asap.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 30, 2017

            It’s blimmin hot here, too, I walked the dog and came home cooked. I have ceramic tiles, and Dog lay on them spread out like a furry starfish.

            Orange and Green ? Are your dux from Ulster ?

            • Gezza

               /  January 30, 2017

              One could be forgiven for thinking so. Their majesties, the pooks, resplendent in their royal purple robes & red crowns, just stand there in the shallows watching the revolting peasants all around them & shaking their heads.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 30, 2017

              It was very funny when the pook was checking out this place and decided that it wasn’t good enough-the way it looked up said clearly ‘I’ll let you know if I want it.’ (but I won’t because I don’t, it’s not up to my standard)

            • Gezza

               /  January 30, 2017

              Anyway, I’ve been awoken from an involuntary nana nap by ma reporting on the day’s doings at the RH, so I’d better pop out to the stream to deliver the daily welfare handouts.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 30, 2017

              The stream doesn’t have banks, it has a foodbank (larfs at own wit)

              My birdtable is well-used, even if it’s not the bird multicultural centre that I fondly imagined that it would be. I love it that the word goes out that the cafe’s open. They must take it in turns to be sentry.

              I didn’t hear the wolf-whistling bird today; it was funny, but might not be for the people next door 😀

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 30, 2017

        You wascally wotter, you stole my pun.

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 30, 2017

    There’s been a multiple shooting at a mosque in Quebec City.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  January 30, 2017

      Five killed-or five dead so far. It could have been far worse, vile as it is that people were going about their business and had this happen. The people will never feel safe in the mosque again. Hideous.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 30, 2017

        A report that the attackers yelled ‘Allahu akbar!’ No confirmation they were actually Muslims though:
        http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-gun-shots-1.3957686

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  January 30, 2017

          I’d be surprised in the circs-I could be wrong. But it seems more like mockery.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 30, 2017

            I read on the CBC’s website that it has been running a series of articles investigating the far right extremist groups in Quebec City since December. There seems to have been an explosion of these in reaction to the big intake of Muslim refugees that Canada has opened itself up to. They seem to be modelling themselves on extremist groups in Finland and France and some are potentially violent and extremely hostile to Muslim refugees and immigrants. It looks all too likely this is a hate crime from the most extreme of these groups.

            • Missy

               /  January 31, 2017

              Alan, I am not sure many of the liberal left will disagree with you, they will not be inclined to practice the caution of ascribing motive or ideology to these attackers as they are when an Islamic Extremist commits a terror attack.

              There are reports that one of the suspects arrested is a Moroccan immigrant, possibly a Muslim himself. A local Canadian TV network have apparently identified the suspects as Mohamed Khadir and Alexandre Bissonnette. Also, Radio Canada has been told by a source that they were both University Students, and one was Moroccan. It has also been reported that the police have said that the suspects were not on their radar, which would rule out known hate gangs, or extremists – of either the far right or muslim.

              I think the PM was very irresponsible to immediately label this a terrorist attack, it possibly is, but more likely to be a hate crime than a terrorist attack.

              Kitty, on the yelling of Allahu Akbar by the attackers, I haven’t seen in any report where the witness said they thought it was mockery, it may have been, but if the reports of the origins and religion of one of the attackers is correct then there may be some doubt on that.

            • Missy

               /  January 31, 2017

              And between reading the story & copying the link to posting the link the story has changed. The police appear to have changed their story and now claim only one arrested is a suspect. Seems like it is a fluid situation. Though this could mean one is still in the run.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 31, 2017

              That is no surprise. Potentially violent ???

  4. Joe Bloggs

     /  January 30, 2017

    And in other news, Trump has given a permanent seat on the National Security Council to neo-Nazi Steve Bannon, but has REMOVED the permanent status of the chair of the Joint Chiefs and head of the NSA. They are now invitation only members of the National Security Council.

    At least we had the travel ban to divert our attention…….

    • Conspiratoor

       /  January 30, 2017

      Joe, I’m aware he’s called himself a Nationalist but where’s your evidence he’s a neo-nazi?

      • Joe Bloggs

         /  January 31, 2017

        Stop sea-lioning. Stop normalizing this man. Stop calling him a hardcore conservative or a nationalist.

        He’s much, much worse than that. He is being openly celebrated and adored by hate groups because they see him as one of them. They seem him as one of them because he is. Steve Bannon is a neo-Nazi bigot. He has created a home for bigots and anti-Semites.

        His own boss Andrew Breitbart complimented him by comparing him to a Nazi propagandist.

        His ex-wife has described him as an anti-Semite.

        His own former employees have openly said that Breitbart News, under Bannon’s leadership, has openly embraced bigotry, white supremacy and anti-Semitism.

        He’s worked for years to not only normalize the alt-right movement, but to give it a home and that movement is fundamentally bigoted.

        He walks like a duck, he quacks like a duck, he has other ducks from friends…

  5. Half way through the Aussie innings the Black Caps looked home and hosed, but they nearly blew or, or at least Marcus Stoinis nearly pulled off an incredible win for the Aussies, ending up not out on 146.

    Josh Hazlewood took part in a fifty run partnership without facing a ball, then took off for a suicide run and was run out without scoring, the first time he has been dismissed in a one day match. Australia 289, New Zealand 286/9.

  6. Conspiratoor

     /  January 30, 2017

    G, where’s pat tonight? I have a delightful little story…

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 30, 2017

      Not expecting to hear much from patu tonight. His wife and children are home again so end of the sleepless nights..

      • Gezza

         /  January 30, 2017

        Once should be enough. She’ll be tired. She won’t be wanting to be pestered,

  7. Conspiratoor

     /  January 30, 2017

    G, I want you to give Al a tune up tomorrow. He let ac back him into a corner, rolled over and let him stroke his belly. Now ac’s coming after me and demanding my surrender. But the silly bugger has got so carried away with Al’s capitulation my comments have gone straight over his head. Cheers,c

    • Anonymous Coward

       /  January 30, 2017

      What was your point? That the list of 7 came from Obama? I got that.
      Now tell us that story, I’m dying to hear it too.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 30, 2017

      I figure I can afford to be wrong once a year, c. And when I am wrong I always admit it straight away otherwise you just look silly. (G hasn’t learnt that yet.)

      • Gezza

         /  January 30, 2017

        As I look silly most of the time let me assure you this is not a significant factor in my determining whether or not you have suffered a loss in debating my arguments.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 30, 2017

          I have noticed that, G.

          • Gezza

             /  January 30, 2017

            Point are awarded & deducted, under my system, for gentlemanly & ungentlemanly behaviour, & also points are awarded for successful angling.

            • Gezza

               /  January 30, 2017

              These are bonus points, I hasten to add. Upticks will generally be awarded to a good argument, especially one with supporting credible evidence. Occasionally a downtick might have to be awarded for a shit argument, especially one with non-credible supporting evidence. On the whole, I’m sure you would agree that I can be trusted to be fair, objective & impartial, Al.

    • Conspiratoor

       /  January 30, 2017

      You’ll have to wait ac. I need to get G and pat into the same room together because they are so obsessed with ticks. G has indicated pat has some domestic duties to attend to. Maybe tomorrow night

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  January 30, 2017

        I’ve got a feeling I know what it is, so I’m impatient to find out if I’m right.
        But you just keep teasing it out.

        • Conspiratoor

           /  January 30, 2017

          I’ve got a feeling your feeling is wrong but when the story is told you will confirm your feeling was right.

          • Anonymous Coward

             /  January 30, 2017

            I’ve got a feeling your story will be full of hyperbole and not stand up to greater scrutiny.

        • Gezza

           /  January 30, 2017

          I have also formulated an undisclosed hyothesis.

        • Conspiratoor

           /  January 30, 2017

          In order to test my hypothesis I executed a plan so cunning it was worthy of that italian fellow with the long name. In fact it was so beautifully orchestrated I felt that warm tingly feeling down the inside of my pants

    • Gezza

       /  January 30, 2017

      Not sure where you mean. Seemed to be some gentlemanly discussion going on over on a trump-related thread. A respectful concession there by him where his error was obvious. I put another one up there for Al for it, so he’s back up to four on the board again.

    • Conspiratoor

       /  January 30, 2017

      That’s okay Al, although I’m not convinced you’re wrong. I once apologised to blazer. A dead rat would be more palatable

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  January 30, 2017

        He was wrong. I’m not going to explain why though.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 30, 2017

          My life strategy has always been to discover my mistakes before anyone else does. It has served me well in general despite Gezza’s random (and notably self-serving) score-keeping recently.

          • Anonymous Coward

             /  January 30, 2017

            I don’t think you’ve got a hopes chance of beating G while he’s the only one that knows how to score it. Ever seen that show Q.I, with it’s mystery points scheme? This puts me in mind of that.

            • Gezza

               /  January 30, 2017

              My strategy is to keep him unbalanced.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 30, 2017

              @AC, that’s ok. I’m letting him think I care.

            • Gezza

               /  January 30, 2017

              It’s not totally random, although there are random elements, and totalling the scores is done on an ad hoc basis, relying a lot on memory rather than careful review of empirical data.

            • Gezza

               /  January 30, 2017

              Yes, late enough for me too I think Al. Enjoy your hot chocky.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 30, 2017

              Done and dusted, G. Good night.

          • Gezza

             /  January 30, 2017

            I see what patu means about some people’s tendency to cast totally unwarranted slurs in others’ good character.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 30, 2017

              Patu is in bed which is where I should be too. I’ve heard the pukes say it certainly wasn’t the drakes that were upsetting those ducks.

            • Gezza

               /  January 30, 2017

              Damn. I’ve deducted two points for posting in the wrong place today. Back down to six on the board for me.

  8. Gezza

     /  January 31, 2017

    Shivers, Al. Just got an email notification of a facebook update by my nephew’s Mrs. She’s signed the online petition to Trumpy demanding that his tax returns be made public & she wants others to as well. Just needs another 13,000 sigs to get to 75,000.

    Some of the signatories’s reasons seem pretty compelling:

    “See why other supporters are signing, why this petition is important to them, and share your reason for signing (this will mean a lot to the starter of the petition).

    I want to make sure the citizens of the USA are represented in foreign policy not the business interests of Trump.

    I want to see the assholes taxes.

    The president of the United States should be completely transparent. (He might just mean not orange?)

    He is a shameful human being with many secrets. We deserve to know the truth

    We have the right to know his by business affiliates.

    I pay taxes and my unfit for the job president doesn’t? This needs to end.

    He’s the president. That’s why.

    Transparency is the key to good governance!

    I believe he should release his tax returns–as he promised!

    U.S. citizens deserve to know the truth about Trump as our new president. If he doesn’t want to share something as simple as his tax returns as other presidents have easily done, then he is disrespecting the honest & hard-working citizens of this country.

    It’s unreal that he keep saying would now he is refusing because he in office. Our President should be a man of his word and stop hiding.

    I want to see his tax returns

    I’m signing because this traitorous lying bigot has to go!

    No one should be above the law.

    I’m signing because all citizen are igual . He must to releasing his tax returns like a citizen as president of the United State. (This lady has a mexican-looking name.)

    What’s fair is FAIR.

    I’m singing,because I don’t agree with anything he’s doing.. (This lady might be in a choir)

    He should, if he’s got nothing to hide

    We need to see how compromised this guy is. (She might have a point?)

    It is important for me for our president to be transparent in business dealings.

    etc.”

    My nephew wants Congress to look at removing Trump for mental impairment. His Missus wants to see how broke he actually really is. They’re in Maryland. They’re both teachers – in their 30s, two sprogs, both boys sadly, I don’t think she wants another one. I don’t think they’re Republicans. I haven’t ‘like’d it yet. Still thinking about it.

  9. Gezza

     /  January 31, 2017

    Good Evening Missy

    Aljazeera has just had an item on a Petition up & running over there to stop Trumpy making a State Visit to UK because it would be an embarrassment for her Majesty to receive him.

    100k sigs needed for it to go to Parliament. Sounds like it’s going to make it pretty soon.

      • Missy

         /  January 31, 2017

        There is sceptism over the number of genuine signatures after the debacle of the petition on the referendum.

        A Muslim MP, who is an Iranian or Iraqi immigrant, was on GMB this morning and he said he welcomes Trump to the UK so that they can engage with him on his policies and try to influence him. He is someone who was going to be potentially affected by it, and he said rather than having a knee jerk reaction he thinks the UK should engage and talk to Trump. Much more mature than some of the MPs who wouldn’t even be affected by the policy.

        • Gezza

           /  January 31, 2017

          Still, early days, any visit wouldn’t be until later in the year. A stuff.co article mentions concerns felt in the US he might get an ear bashing from HRH Prince Charles about climate change. Re engaging & influencing Trumpy, unkind souls have suggested that the best way to try and get through to him would probably be with a brick.

          • Missy

             /  January 31, 2017

            The visit has no date so yeah wouldn’t be until later in the year. As for influencing, those that know him say that he can be swayed by a good argument and he is open to changing his mind as he is not influenced by rigid ideology – and he is a businessman. Time will tell.

            • Gezza

               /  January 31, 2017

              A gold one might be persuasive I imagine. Aljaz has really got it in for him. It’s very noticeable, even before the visa free ban fiasco. They always gave Obama & John Kerry favourable coverage – or at least they faithfully showed them doing their thing, with generally favourable commentary, & they constantly pretended Kerry stood a chance of achieving something in Syria when any half-wit could see The Vladimir was just urinating all over him.

              The coverage by Aljaz at the moment is all about the protests in the US & everywhere. They give the viewer the impression the country must be coming to a stop.