US discussion – Wednesday

If there’s news or issues from the USA worth discussing today you can do it here.

77 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  February 8, 2017

    The DONALD OF THE UNITED STATES Twitter rants so far today:

    Donald J Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    45th President of the United States of America
    Washington, DC

    ……
    “The failing ‪@nytimes‬ was forced to apologize to its subscribers for the poor reporting it did on my election win. Now they are worse!”

    [NB: Plagiarism? #WORSE!, from yesterday, = Wellington’s ‘Orriblest Ruddy Summer Ever]
    ……
    “The threat from radical Islamic terrorism is very real, just look at what is happening in Europe and the Middle-East. Courts must act fast!”
    ……
    “I don’t know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy – yet Obama can make a deal with Iran, #1 in terror, no problem!”
    ……
    Wed 8 Feb 2016 0600 hours

  2. Pete Kane

     /  February 8, 2017

    Why Donald Trump ‘Is In Charge,’ And Not Steve Bannon | Morning Joe | MSNBC

    • Gezza

       /  February 8, 2017

      Fascinating discussion PK. Looking forward to the visa ban Circuit Court Appeal decision. They are expecting a panel of judges by the sound of it.
      Czech exit: off to the Rest Home.

  3. Anonymous Coward

     /  February 8, 2017

    Brand new unbiased news site launched today.
    At least I think it’s unbiased, judging by the name. I’ll let the likes of Al and PDB be the judge of that, I guess.

    http://whytrumpisgreat.com

  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 8, 2017

    DeVos is confirmed by the Senate so it looks as though Trump will score 100% on his nominations to date.

    Democrats screaming, shouting and losing.

  5. Anonymous Coward

     /  February 8, 2017

    Cosmopolitan (yes, I know) has come out and revealed that Kelly Anne Conway told them all about the Bowling Green Massacre in an interview she had done previous to her disastrous television appearance, they didn’t publish it. In that instance she told of a trip to Iraq for training and the deaths of soldiers at the hands of the terrorists. She also told the story to TMZ. So not such a slip of the tongue at all.

    https://thinkprogress.org/conway-bowling-green-twice-8c04dab61b53#.q6azonh3w

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 8, 2017

      Don’t suppose you are interested in the facts, AC, but here they are:
      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/5/kellyanne-conway-correctly-spoke-about-bowling-gre/

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  February 8, 2017

        I read his court documents the other day, I’m in possession of the facts.
        The Author of that article seems to be constructing their own – “Although the refugees did not commit a massacre in Kentucky, one of them did in Iraq”.
        One of them admitted the use of IED’s in Iraq, but nowhere in the court documents or anywhere else are there numbers for how many people he killed, or even that he did – he admitted to damaging vehicles.
        So on the use of the rather emotive term ‘massacre’ I’m calling BULLSHIT. Unless you can prove otherwise.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  February 8, 2017

          “damaging” Humvees and Bradleys carrying US soldiers. How twee can you get, AC? Massacre = indiscriminate killings.

          She used the words “Bowling Green attack” to TMZ not massacre.

          • Anonymous Coward

             /  February 8, 2017

            When she told Cosmo, the soldiers died at Bowling Green, not Iraq.

            I’m not being twee, I’m saying there is no proof he killed anyone, and so no justification for using the word ‘massacre’ however you define it. (your definition is conveniently missing ‘…of many people’, by the way).
            You’ve been called upon to provide the proof he ‘massacred’ troops in Iraq, not to (il)define Massacre.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              The Feds caught the terrorists because one’s fingerprints were on IEDs in Iraq so he was a Al Qaeda bomb-maker who boasted of the hits on US soldiers he had made as well as being a sniper. He wound up serving a long sentence in consequence.

              You can quibble all you like but most folk won’t be on your side or the Dems.

            • Anonymous Coward

               /  February 8, 2017

              Not denying ‘hits’ Al, still waiting for your proof of deaths.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qaeda-kentucky-us-dozens-terrorists-country-refugees/story?id=20931131

              Suspects Linked to Attack That Killed 4 US Soldiers

              Pennsylvania National Guard soldiers who had served in Bayji in 2005 saw news reports about the two arrests, and Army Staff Sgt. Joshua Hedetniemi called the FBI to alert them to an Aug. 9, 2005, IED attack that killed four of their troopers in a humvee patrolling south of the town. The U.S. attorney’s office in Louisville eventually placed the surviving soldiers in its victim notification system for the case, even though it couldn’t be conclusively proven that Alwan and Hammadi had killed the Guardsmen.

              The four Pennsylvania soldiers killed that day were Pfc. Nathaniel DeTample, 19, Spec. Gennaro Pellegrini, 31, Spec. Francis J. Straub Jr., 24, and Spec. John Kulick, 35.

              “It was a somber moment for the platoon, we had a great deal of love and respect for those guys and it hit us pretty hard,” Hedetniemi said in an interview in the Guard’s armory near Philadelphia. “I think that these two individuals are innately evil to be able to act as a terrorist and attack and kill American soldiers, then have the balls to come over to the United States and try to do the same exact thing here in our homeland.”

          • Pete Kane

             /  February 8, 2017

            “Conway: Happy To Have “Raised Awareness” Of Bowling Green Incident Because Trump Ban Would Have Prevented It”
            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/02/07/conway_i_am_very_happy_to_have_raised_awareness_of_non-massacre_in_bowling_green.html

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  February 8, 2017

        Also the facts at hand are now that she told the same lie, three times – not so much the substance of her lie. I’m calling diversion.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  February 8, 2017

          She made the same shorthand mistake twice. Presumably in the course of longer interviews. We have no context to make judgements.

          • Joe Bloggs

             /  February 8, 2017

            diversion – Conway’s been caught repeatedly mischaracterising the arrest of two men in Bowling Green. Not once, not twice, but three times.

            End of story.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              Did she repeat the mistake after it had been pointed out to her?

              That is the salient question, surely?

            • Anonymous Coward

               /  February 8, 2017

              She didn’t repeat them after she made them in public, and her lie was pounced upon. Unfortunately that was the third time she’d told that lie.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              It was a mistake, not a lie, which apologised for and did not repeat after it was pointed out to her. If she had repeated it after that it would have been a lie but she didn’t.

              This is the same sort of crap that Key used to get as a spokesperson who makes hundreds of statements a week and if one is mistaken or not exactly precise it gets trumpeted as a lie by the loony Left.

            • Anonymous Coward

               /  February 8, 2017

              For politicians a mistake is a lie that got found out.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              Doesn’t apply to Winston. He never makes mistakes apparently. Trump is the same. Never admits to any. But normal people do make mistakes and apologise and correct them when they are pointed out. As Conway did.

              And normal people accept that.

            • PDB

               /  February 8, 2017

              No mention AC or Bloggs of these two ‘lies’ (as you term them)……..need to remove the eye-patch occasionally.

              http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2220379-maxine-waters-says-putin-invaded-korea/

              “Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters, in an attempt to discredit President Donald Trump, made a gaffe, saying that Russian leader Vladimir Putin invaded “Korea.”

              “While it’s only been a couple of weeks since the inauguration, we’ve seen nothing that I can work with President Bush on,” Pelosi said.

        • Gezza

           /  February 8, 2017

          👍 “I’m calling diversion.”

          Dunno how I forgot that one. Must’ve been diverted. Added to Scoreboard point loss criteria.

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  February 8, 2017

        That site redirected my browser to a Mackeeper page, why would a reputable news source be redirecting it’s viewers for ad-clicks.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  February 8, 2017

          Dunno. Didn’t redirect mine. Maybe doesn’t like your browser or you have some adware installed.

          • Anonymous Coward

             /  February 8, 2017

            It was my ‘unprotected’ one that I use for loading third party stuff – disqus comments in this case.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              Sounds as though you have picked up some malware.

            • Anonymous Coward

               /  February 8, 2017

              May have done, but the only sites that have any info on this redirect all want me to download something to get rid of it.
              Luckily I’m on a mac, the next security update always gets rid of these things. Still not convinced it wasn’t that site, or at least an ad on that site.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              Seems pretty unlikely that malware on the website would choose to target only Macs when Windows would give a far bigger market.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 8, 2017

              On the other hand if it is in your browser it should show up on other websites so if it doesn’t maybe you are right.

  6. Joe Bloggs

     /  February 8, 2017

    Poor wee alt-right snowflake Trumpy:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-twitter-attack-new-york-time-nyt-white-house-life-revelations-bathrobe-sean-spicer-a7566821.html

    The more Trump tweets, the more he reinforces that he has something to hide. And the more he attacks the media, the more they’ll shout out when what he’s hiding is finally revealed.

    Interesting too that alt-right junior snowflake, Sean Spicer, picks the bathrobe comment as the one to refute, ignoring the comment that Trump signs Executive Orders without having read them.

    This is all gonna end in alt-right tears…

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 8, 2017

      Bob Jones famously won a court case where he declared he signed far too many papers to bother reading them all.

  7. Joe Bloggs

     /  February 8, 2017

    Yet more White House lies exposed by the media:

    The White House has issued a list of 78 terrorist attacks, saying most were underreported. The Trump administration, under fire for immigration restrictions and other policies it says are designed to curb terrorism, has portrayed the news media and other institutions as playing down the threat.

    But the list, which was released on Monday night and details episodes from September 2014 to December 2016, includes dozens of attacks that were covered heavily in the news media…

    Right-wing violence has been rising in the United States, according to a recent report by the New America Foundation, and has in some years claimed more lives than Islamist attacks in the country.

    The White House’s list, by focusing on a significant but narrow slice of terrorism, feeds into perceptions that the administration is seeking to target Muslims with other policies, particularly its immigration restrictions against predominantly Muslim countries.

    And The Grauniad takes a similar tack to expose the deceit of Trump, Spicer and assorted alt-right minions:

    David Gergen, a political analyst and former adviser to four US presidents, condemned Trump’s remarks.

    “I think this is one of the most outrageous claims the president has made, among many, because it really says, basically, that the press is not doing its job because it has its own political agenda,” he told CNN. “It doesn’t want you to know the truth about how dangerous terrorism is. It doesn’t want to be out there, it’s just pulling a leftist agenda on you, which is clearly not true.”

    Gergen added: “He engages in these falsehoods without producing any serious evidence. The list includes San Bernardino, as if the press didn’t cover that sufficiently. It’s just astonishing and it’s beneath the dignity of the presidency and I think it tears at the fabric of what holds us together as a people when we can’t trust each other, we can’t trust the White House, and he’s telling us we can’t trust the press. This is the way democracies come unravelled.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/07/white-house-list-donald-trumps-undereported-terror-list-paris-attacks-berlin-truck-killings

    • Gezza

       /  February 8, 2017

      You’re on the Scoreboard starting with 7, Joe.
      Anybody can have their name removed from it by request, except Alan.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  February 8, 2017

        I’m thinking of putting an IED under it, G, except I can’t decide whether to target it or you.

        • Gezza

           /  February 8, 2017

          Luckily for you, meaningless threats don’t lose a point & a good laugh scores one.

  8. PDB

     /  February 8, 2017

    I’ll play devils advocate here…….some thoughts on the other side of the argument;

    Trump’s camp is saying those attacks are under-reported but the newspapers you quote are talking about giving those attacks coverage – two quite different things and down to an individual’s opinion as to what ‘under-reported’ or ‘adequate coverage’ means.

    The other thing the newspapers bring up is this: “Right-wing violence has been rising in the United States, according to a recent report by the New America Foundation, and has in some years claimed more lives than Islamist attacks in the country. The White House’s list, by focusing on a significant but narrow slice of terrorism, feeds into perceptions that the administration is seeking to target Muslims with other policies, particularly its immigration restrictions against predominantly Muslim countries.”

    I think that is unproven, the point could be that the media play down Muslim related terror attacks whilst giving all other attacks far better coverage hence why those aren’t on the list. Their absence from the list could simply be that they already get adequate (or overboard)coverage.

    I think it’s a pretty piss poor effort from Trump’s camp however which misses out on one of the key issues of the MSM covering such terror events in playing down the role of terrorism in these events with ‘lone wolf’ etc being a commonly used diversion. Must do better.

  9. PDB

     /  February 8, 2017

    More anti-immigrant nonsense from the Trump camp! When will it end?

  10. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 8, 2017

    I see the mother of the Australian woman victim of the French Muslim lunatic’s backpacker killings is protesting Trump’s inclusion of that as a terrorist act.

    Just because he hadn’t been directly in touch with ISIS doesn’t mean it wasn’t an ISIS inspired copycat crime as he shouted Allahu Akbar. GIven the palpable lunacy of many of the ISIS terrorists and their acts I don’t believe certifiable lunacy or no direct links to the organisation are sufficient grounds to decide this is not a terrorist act.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 8, 2017

      More accurately, a British tourist victim in Australia, not Australian.

  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 8, 2017

    Assad’s victims. I wonder how Trump will react to this:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11796526

  12. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 8, 2017
  13. lurcher1948

     /  February 8, 2017

  14. Prime news tonight had a critical news item about President Trump and “fake news”. They reported he had provided a list of 78 Terrorist incidents that he claimed had not been the subject of MSM accurate reporting. Prime criticised him for not mentioning two white hate incidents one in Canada and the other in the US, asking why they were not on the list and criticised the naming of an Australian reported terrorist incident that had been apparently found to be incorrect. How balanced is that? Were you around in 2001 when the planes were flying into the twin towers. I get the feeling our MSM reporters are pea-brained lacking any memory, or the physical capacity of Googling “Twin Towers New York” and getting the details!

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 8, 2017

      I commented on the Aussie case here: https://yournz.org/2017/02/08/us-discussion-wednesday/#comment-162776

      If he had named the “white hate” incidents they would have said he was lying because they were not terrorist attacks.

      Balanced is not the objective from the MSM at present.

    • duperez

       /  February 8, 2017

      The part I liked on the TV3 news was when Trump claimed that the murder rate was the highest in 47 years (or something like that) , “You know that don’t you?” Then a graph was shown with the numbers which showed he was talking crap.

      Amongst all the “false facts” and “fake news” some people get a little upset when Trump gets called a bloody idiot.

      Accepting that the murder figures shown on the TV3 news were right, anyone believing what he said is a bloody idiot. The funniest thing is him talking about the “Pure outright dishonesty” of the media.

      (Numerous other sources back up the figures shown. e.g. http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/07/politics/donald-trump-murder-rate-fact-check/

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4201650/Trump-claims-MURDER-RATE-47-year-high-despite-FBI.html)

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  February 8, 2017

        Some commentators have suggested Trump, who campaigned on restoring ‘law and order’ may have been referring to the spike, an 11 per cent increase which was the largest increase in 50 years. But a year-over-year increase is not the same as the overall rate being at a 50-year high.

        • duperez

           /  February 8, 2017

          Possible I suppose. If so, having seen the clip, interesting observations could then be made about his mental facility.

  15. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 8, 2017

    An interesting sketch of education union politics in the US: