Open Forum – Friday

17 February 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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96 Comments

  1. Missy

     /  February 17, 2017

    A bit of a UK/EU update.

    By Elections:
    As previously reported next week are two by elections, and if some of the reports coming out are anything to go by Labour may be feeling a bit under pressure – or in the case of Stoke their activists are.

    Copeland: The Labour Party have sent out a leaflet on the NHS in Copeland, so far so good, but critics has slammed it as scaremongering, as the leaflets talk about the Government wanting to close the hospital and, quoting unnamed and unsourced midwives and GP’s, they say it will result in deaths of mothers and babies. I don’t know if the Government do or don’t want to close the local hospital (it will be awful if they do), but for Labour to try and scare people into voting for them does seem a little desperate. Some commentators are expecting Copeland to go to the Conservatives for the first time.

    Stoke: This is a little more concerning, and has resulted in a complaint from the Liberal Democrats to the Police. A Labour activists has sent a message to all Muslims in Stoke (approximately 7% of the population) stating that they have to vote for Labour or UKIP will win and it suggests they will go to hell if that happens. The message also said that if they vote for the Lib Dems Muslim candidate and UKIP win then they have succeeded in getting UKIP elected. The message suggests it is their duty as a Muslim to vote for Labour. Critics have seen this as a form of intimidation, but from what I have seen on social media about it, some believe it is spiritual influence which is apparently illegal in UK elections.

    EU:
    French MPs have apparently insisted Britain must be punished for leaving the EU, otherwise others will want to leave as well. This was produced in a report by a parliamentary committee in France.

    Still on France: Apparently in an interview Marine Le Pen has said if she wins the election then she will reinstate France’s relationship with the UK, and repair the damage done by the EU. The odds for Le Pen have been slashed due to the scandal surrounding the British wife of front runner Fillon (sorry, can’t remember his first name at the moment).

    The EU have threatened Britain with a massive bill for leaving the EU, but today a report said that it is likely that Britain will want a share of the EU’s assets, which are estimated to be worth around 130 billion pounds.

    Church of England:
    The Church of England are currently holding their Synod. Yesterday they voted on a report which stated that church marriages should remain between a man and a woman only. The church members voted against the report – thus rejecting the ban on gay marriages. However, today it has emerged that it is possible that some members may have voted against the report by accident, as there was reportedly confusion around what exactly the members were voting for. This has thrown the result of the vote into doubt.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/16/bishop-apologises-accidentally-pressing-wrong-button-crucial/

    • Missy

       /  February 17, 2017

      An image of the message that was sent to Muslims in Stoke on Trent.

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  February 17, 2017

        That poses the problem without providing the solution.

      • Blazer

         /  February 17, 2017

        ‘Tom,Dick and ..Harry’ …seem to have picked up the …vernacular.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 17, 2017

          I wonder if this is really by the people it purports to be by. Their English is inconsistent, like someone trying to sound as if it isn’t their first language and not quite succeeding. It’s like poison pen letters where the writer tries to make it sound like a different kind of person but makes slips like using incorrect grammar and punctuation in one sentence and not another.

          • Missy

             /  February 17, 2017

            What do you mean ‘the people it purports to be by’? I am not sure who you think it is purported to be by, but the reports are that it is a member of the Mosque called Navid Hussain, I understand that he is an immigrant and an activist for Labour. If he is an immigrant then surely his English will be inconsistent.

            Tell me Kitty, since you seem to know more than those in Stoke who have reported this, who did send this message to the Muslim voters in Stoke, if not the ‘people it purports to be by’?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 18, 2017

              Oh, don’t be so nitpicking. You are trying to put words in my mouth, which is stupid.

              I expressed no opinion as to who it WAS by or claimed to know more than the people of Stoke. I said that I wondered who it was by.Wondering means not knowing. I made none of the claims atrributed to me by you.Do grow up, you’re not in the 4th form now. Don’t try to make it seem as if people have said something that they haven’t when their words are there to disprove this idiocy.

              You have surely heard before of the form of propaganda in which views are attributed to someone else-it’s very old.

              If someone’s English is inconsistent, then it’s surely likely that the inconsistencies will be consistent in themselves and they won’t write something in Standard English in one sentence and the same thing incorrectly in another.

              If you want to be credible in attributing false views to someone, make sure that their actual words are not there to make you look a silly stirrer.

    • Missy

       /  February 17, 2017

      The big news this morning is that Tony Blair is to give a speech this morning in which he will urge Remainers to rise up and block Brexit. He is reported to have said that people are allowed to change their mind, and that they have a duty to do so, (I wonder if that goes for Remainers who now wish they voted to Leave?).

      According to media reports this morning Blair apparently believes that people who voted Leave were misinformed and voted on dubious facts – a little ironic coming from Blair.

      • Blazer

         /  February 17, 2017

        has Blair still got any credibility with the rank and file citizenry?

        • Missy

           /  February 17, 2017

          Nope, and in social media comments some who voted Remain said being told by Tony Blair to back remaining is enough to make them change their vote to leave – theory being if Blair thinks it is good then it is not a good thing.

  2. Tossing a spanner into the Sturgeon and Salmond works

    “Shetland Islands bid to BREAKAWAY from Scotland in revolt

    The power struggle is engulfed around the islands, which land more fish than ports in England, Wales and Northern Ireland combined.

    It is geographically and culturally closest to Scandinavia than Edinburgh and more politically aligned with Brussels and London.

    Ms Mason said: “We would like control of the seabed around us, the fishing ground around us, and the freedom to get rid of some of the bureaucracy that comes down from the EU, Westminster and the Scottish parliament.

    “Our seas are being plundered by foreign boats. We also contribute an enormous amount of money to the national economy through taxes, through the oil revenues, and yet we don’t get back our fair share.”

    It’d take away the relentless secessionist pairs grounds for blackmail over oil

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/768331/Shetland-islands-bid-breakaway-scotland-closer-UK

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 17, 2017

      Islanders tend to be tough, independent and resilient cookies. I doubt they have much in common with Glasgow’s welfare beneficiaries.

      • Conspiratoor

         /  February 17, 2017

        True dat Al. I have a number of porridge wog mates who just can’t get their heads around this reality

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 17, 2017

          Porridge wogs ?

          • Gezza

             /  February 17, 2017

            Persons of the Scots persuasion, patu.

          • Gezza

             /  February 17, 2017

            Oh, sorry – Kitty, I meant.
            Sometimes I get the two of you confused. Not very often though.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 18, 2017

              I’m not sure who should be more insulted by that G 😀

            • Gezza

               /  February 18, 2017

              Yeah, but you know what I mean. Sometimes when you two are communicating it just seems to be wall-to-wall cats 😃

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  February 17, 2017

          Ever been to Stewart Island or the Chathams, C? Classic examples. Own their own shipping and air services, salmon farms, fish processing. Make fortunes fishing in rough water and tough conditions. Great people.

          • patupaiarehe

             /  February 17, 2017

            I have Alan, what an unspoiled wilderness Stewart Island is. Had the best fish & chips ever, from a caravan in half moon bay. I don’t imagine that any other takeaways in NZ, has a fishing vessel that delivers their catch to them daily.

            • Anonymous Coward

               /  February 17, 2017

              There’s one in Nelson, on the way to Tahauanui, where the owners have a fishing boat. All the fish is displayed as fillets and battered or crumbed to order. They don’t open until they’re back from fishing.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

              Nothing compares to it AC, fresh fish straight out of the deep fryer. Damned splendid, IMHO.

            • Anonymous Coward

               /  February 17, 2017

              My favourite is eating fish and chips out of a rip in the paper while walking in the rain, they never taste better than that,

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

              For sure AC, the worst F&C taste great, with the right company…

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 17, 2017

      Apologies to Missy who was way ahead of me in the Media post.

      • Gezza

         /  February 17, 2017

        👍 S11 – gracious or fulsome apology.

        • Nelly Smickers

           /  February 17, 2017

          Could I also take this opportunity Geez, to say how *extremely sorry* I am for stealing your ‘Putin on a Biscuit’ giphy, and using it in response to Conspirator’s comment last night on the *US discussion…Thursday’ post. It wont happen again. My apologies.

          • Gezza

             /  February 17, 2017

            Don’t mention it Nelly. Only ever too happy to share good fortune. Feel free to use it again. And if there’s still a drought at home, check his phone.

            • Nelly Smickers

               /  February 17, 2017

              Do you think you could give me a 10 or 11 Geez ❓

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

              I can only give you one sista…

            • Gezza

               /  February 17, 2017

              Well, I don’t know, Nelly. If Wayne’s still not showing any interest it’s hard to judge from here whether you’d still be a 10?

            • Gezza

               /  February 17, 2017

              Oh, God – embarrassment. 😳 I see what you mean now. No, the best I could give would be one point I think, if it was a Scoring Day. But still, a point is not an easy thing to earn – especially after an assessment for any L’s, and you’d be treated fairly in the overall scoring, naturally.

          • patupaiarehe

             /  February 17, 2017

            LOL @ Nelly. ‘Explaining is losing’… Fortunately enough,tonight isn’t a ‘scoring night’. Well maybe it is for me… 😉

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

              OK, it is 😀 Give yourself an uptick on behalf of my ataahua wahine Nelly, she approves…

          • Anonymous Coward

             /  February 17, 2017

            It’s not a biscuit, it’s a Ritz cracker.
            It’s ‘Putin on the Ritz’.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

            • Gezza

               /  February 17, 2017
            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

              Call me young, but please remind me who ‘Gary Cooper’ is 😀

            • Gezza

               /  February 18, 2017

              Some Hollywood actor from my dad’s days who was already ancient when I heard of him as a youngster.

            • Gezza

               /  February 18, 2017

              That son was originally done by Fred Astaire I think patu – Cooper was a contemporary I think. It’ll be on EweChwb, I bet.

            • Gezza

               /  February 18, 2017

              Drat. * Song & * EweChewb. I’m not improving in the proof-reading department. Correcting stuff is a pain on the FiP.

  3. Kitty Catkin

     /  February 17, 2017

    Good luck with that, Britain.

    I have just heard that Pink Floyd have been making music for half a century. I don’t believe it. There was a small but fierce thunderstorm which sent the dog into a frenzy, so I missed most of the story.

    • patupaiarehe

       /  February 17, 2017

    • Anonymous Coward

       /  February 17, 2017

      You don’t believe that 1967 was 50 years ago Kitty? Pull the other one.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 18, 2017

        I imagined Pink Floyd to be a 70s band, not a 60s one.

        • They were a 60s band, forming around 1963, under the influence of Syd Barrett who was under the influence of stuff. But Syd became stuffed, David Gilmour joined in 1967, and Barrett left in early 1968.

          Floyd released three albums in the 60s, another in 1970, They had some success to that stage. But they took off to another level in the early 70s when they released Dark Side of the Moon.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2017

            That was the golden age of music.

            I hope that when the perpetrators of some of the worst of today’s stuff are old and helpless, they will have it played to them over and over when they’re a captive audience in the old people’s home-serve them damned well right.

  4. Kitty Catkin

     /  February 17, 2017

    Have people seen the ‘suspected drunk hedgehog’ story ?

    • patupaiarehe

       /  February 17, 2017

      Nope, do tell, Kitty

      • Gezza

         /  February 17, 2017

        I love Friday nights here. Sometimes.

        • patupaiarehe

           /  February 17, 2017

          Still waiting for Kitty’s story….

          • Gezza

             /  February 17, 2017

            2231 hours. Latish for Kitty, & she usually does Polish, not Czech exits. Sounds like a goodie. Might fill us in on the gory details tomorrow.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

              Spare me the ‘gory details’, I do enjoy a good story though…

            • Gezza

               /  February 17, 2017

              At least if it doesn’t involve The DOTUS there probably won’t be any crude language.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 17, 2017

              A little music would be good G…

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 18, 2017

        Google ‘suspected drunk hedgehog’. I don’t want to spoil it. I’ll just say that that hedgehog is probably still blushing.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2017

            I loved the way the story was written ! Poor Tiggywinkle, world-famous for something so embarrassing. The mental picture of a hedgehog staggering around with his head stuck in a yoghurt pot is hilarious.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 18, 2017

              Sure is Kitty 😀 We’ve got a family of hedgehogs living under our front step, who are slowly beginning to trust the humans who live above them & feed them. Our cats aren’t too fond of them though….

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 18, 2017

              Oh, you lucky !

              I love hedgehogs, and sometimes have one in residence in the garden. Baby hedgehogs are too sweet for words. We once found and looked after two wee orphans, or what we took to be orphans-no parents were ever found. One was quite happy to stay, the other wasn’t and made the one who was come away with him as soon as they were old enough.

              My dog loathes hedgehogs and barks furiously at them instead of minding his own business. He’s welcome to eat the slugs himself if he doesn’t want them to come in and do it. I hear that they eat ants, so if you have ants in the pantry, bring Tiggywinkle in and shut the door.

        • Gezza

           /  February 18, 2017

          👍 😃

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2017

            (blows coffee into keyboard at mere thought)

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2017

            I needn’t say that the local hedgehogs never disgrace themselves in this way.

            It was a surprise that Hoggy liked yoghurt so much that he stuck his head right into the pot-and couldn’t get it out 😀 I hope that he wasn’t like it too long, poor animal.

        • patupaiarehe

           /  February 18, 2017

          Our cats are well fed, but just can’t help themselves when they see something smaller than them scurrying across the lawn. I’ve lost count of the number of skinks I have rescued from them. My youngest is fascinated by skinks, whenever I rescue one, I make a point of showing him. As for the hedgehogs, they need no help from me. Our cats have learned the hard way that attacking them has unpleasant consequences… 😀

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2017

            ‘Fido’ (not his real name) must be able to hear or smell one at a great distance, even when the doors and windows have been shut last thing.

            I don’t know whether to be proud or embarrassed that he catches mice.

            We have untold geckos around here, every time I go out some run away. I saw one with no tail, so some cat must have had the fright to end all frights and the gecko a good laugh. As geckos have no sense of direction, I hate them to come into the house-so often they raced off in the wrong direction with us trying to steer them to the door. I have found a few little bodies (snf, snf) I’m glad that they are making use of the landscaped (ie. stones to make it not too deep) waterbowl, both for drinking and swimming. It’s one of those two section pet bowls. There’s a little wooden step in case they slip on the plastic and can’t reach the water.

            The sight of one standing on the kitchen bench, drinking drops of water was a real surprise.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2017

            My mistake ?. My geckos may be skinks. They are plainish brown and quite small.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 19, 2017

              The ones around here are really small Kitty, which is why my youngest finds them so fascinating. He is used to being the ‘littlest’, so when he sees something far smaller than him, that can run around & breathe all on it’s own, he considers it his new best friend. And our cats his new worst enemy…
              The last skink I ‘rescued’, had already lost it’s tail to one of our cats. It was a few seconds from losing it’s life, most likely… Mr 4 saw what ‘Kitty’ was up to, and held his hands above his head, then ran towards our cat screaming “NO!!!!”. Needless to say, ‘Kitty’ buggered off as fast as her legs could carry her…

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 19, 2017

              It’s hard to say what size mine are, as they move so fast, but (very roughly) the length of a middle finger. They are loving the sticky heat; I’m glad that it’s popular with some beings.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 19, 2017

              What is really great to see, as a parent, is how concerned my youngest is about the lizard who has had his tail ripped off. I really can’t give a ‘lizards perspective’ on anything, and I don’t imagine that losing ones tail is a pleasant experience…but it is survivable…
              Bloody kids! Ever since ‘Mr 4’ watched me save a skink from certain death, he is now ‘shadowing’ the cats…

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 19, 2017

              They actually fall off, so it’s not like an animal having its tail cut off; the lizard doesn’t seem to mind at all. I don’t know how they make them drop off, but when they do, the lizard just runs off as if nothing had happened. It seems to be like a person losing a garment. No blood or anything like that. It must give the animal who causes it the fright of its life. I saw one very time I went out this afternoon, so it must be a good season for them.

              There’s a technical term for animals who can do this, but I can’t remember it.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 19, 2017

              My youngest was nearly in tears, looking at the last tailess skink I rescued from the cat. It took a lot of explaining to make him realise that the skink was fine, and would grow a new tail. He has decided that he doesn’t like cats anymore, and everytime he sees them stalking something, he runs at them, screaming as loud as he can…:D

            • patupaiarehe

               /  February 19, 2017
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 19, 2017

              Something autonomy-cau…… It’s amazing that they can simply squeeze a muscle (so to speak) and leave the predator fainting with shock. It’s as if someone who’d been grabbed by the arm simply took off, leaving the arm behind.

              I read a question online-my gecko’s tail fell off, what should I do ? Not much that one can do once it’s happened, what a stupid question.Do they expect people to tell them to use a drop of superglue ?

  5. Gezza

     /  February 17, 2017

    @ Patu. I know you’ve heard this before, but I love it that much I’m trying to see if I can do it in my concert set (at 11 on 28 March). I’ve got the rhythm sussed, still working on the vocals – his phrasing, and I want to see if can work some frilly little lead bits into the main rhythm, seeing it’s only a classical axe & moi, no amp, mic etc.

    The LH gave me some good feedback on the material I demo’d last night. I have a lot of work to do on my singing. Mainly did bvs in the cover bands. Have to stretch the vocal chords with a bit more yelling by the sound of it. 🤔

  6. patupaiarehe

     /  February 17, 2017

    Something different, for the night owls…

    • Gezza

       /  February 17, 2017

      I liked that. I’ve got an expensive guitar mic I never got around to fitting to my blue half size classical, because I’m not sure how much of a problem feedback would be, I had that prob with a cheapie mic I fitted to a free one I got given & customised. But I’m thinking of getting it fitted via dave at the Porirua Music Works store. He offered to arrange that ($50) when I bought it. Still got the busking amp in its box, never used it. Might wind that up too.

      Gonna pack in the music patu. Still a few links I haven’t read here from people today. Some good discussions here today, I thought.

      • patupaiarehe

         /  February 18, 2017

        Fair enough, please excuse me with my unlimited fibre… 😛

  7. patupaiarehe

     /  February 17, 2017

    OK G, I know you don’t play ukelele, but you NEED to watch this…

    • Gezza

       /  February 17, 2017

      Yeah I play uke, been a while tho. Got given one as a young child when I asked for a guitar. A professional quality ukulele is a great instrument, surprisingly loud & quite versatile.

      • Gezza

         /  February 17, 2017

        PS, played right, a ukulele can easily substitute for a mandolin.

      • patupaiarehe

         /  February 18, 2017

        I’ve always thought of ‘ukes’ as a toy, until Jr bashed out something I knew on one last night. He’s got an app on his phone, which lets him tune any instrument pitch perfect

  8. patupaiarehe

     /  February 18, 2017

    Late enough for me, cya….

  9. Missy

     /  February 18, 2017

    As I have a late work presentation today I am not sure when I will be home, so posting now – hopefully someone will see it. 😉

    Summary of Blair’s Rallying of Revolutionary Remainers:
    Blair’s speech this morning pretty much went according to pre-speech reporting. He urged Remain voters to rise up against Brexit, claiming the UK is heading for Brexit at any cost, and that the vote was based on imperfect knowledge. Predictably he attacked the Labour Party for not having a coherent view on Brexit (a bit hard when the majority of MPs back remain, but the ‘heartland’ voted leave), and he criticised Theresa May and Cabinet Ministers for their about turn on Brexit. Blair claimed that the Government are not driving the bus, but being driven, and he believes that everyone deserves a second vote and the opportunity to change their minds.

    Prior to the speech, Iain Duncan Smith (Leave campaigner), based on reporting of Blair’s speech, said his comments were arrogant and out of touch. He said that Blair “…wants the British people to keep on being asked the same question …. until they get it right.”

    After the speech Boris Johnson criticised the speech, and urged the British people to rise up and turn off the TV next time Tony Blair is on.

    On the radio this afternoon, a journalist referred to Tony Blair as being delusional, a term usually used in reference to Trump these days.

    Social media comments are predominantly against Blair’s speech, as much for the content as for the person giving it, and some have suggested that Blair can only help the Brexiteers cause.

    An interesting thing to note, I saw a comment that said 58% of Blair’s former constituency voted Leave, I wonder if his position would still be the same if he remained their MP?