Rape culture protest

 

After the Wellington College issue erupted last week when boys were exposed making claims or expressing false bravado about it being a thing to have sex with drunk girls, a protest was organised to be held outside the boys’ school.

That reaction was misguided, targeting a single school and singling out one incident would have likely inflamed the situation rather than help it.

A more reasonable and sensible protest was organised and it was held today outside Parliament.

RNZ: Hundreds join protest against rape culture in NZ

Hundreds of people have gathered outside Parliament to protest against rape culture and call for better sex and consent education in secondary schools.

Not a huge turnout but a good number to make a strong statement.

Poor weather in the capital did not keep people at bay, with men and women of all ages – including at least 100 secondary school students – turning out.

On the lawn outside Parliament, Wellington High School student Norma McLean told the crowd she did not want to live in fear any longer.

“Today we send an important message to New Zealand that we will not put up with rape culture any longer… the buck stops here. I want my future to be equal to any man’s.”

Another speaker said: “It is important we teach the rights a woman has over her own body.”

Good on them for speaking up. This could be a turning point in teen attitudes towards sex, making it loud and clear that crappy and disrespectful and abusive behaviour and sexual predation and assault is not the norm and is not acceptable.

Organisers were forced to move the location of the protest, which was originally to be held outside Wellington College, when they were threatened with violence.

Much better to have the protest in a neutral location and having it at Parliament attracted attention from politicians.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Women Paula Bennett said the government had heard the calls to make sure consent was included in the curriculum for sex education, which was compulsory in Year 10.

“I think it is incredibly powerful that such a big group has turned out. I want to praise [those] that are speaking out and calling out behaviour that is not acceptable at any level,” she said.

Good to see the Minister for Women take part and take note.

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A member of the group, Mia Faiumu, told RNZ’s Michael Cropp she hoped people would take away the message that joking about rape was not okay.

“It’s very harmful to people, to victims, and we hope that people take away that this isn’t an issue that should be normalised at all.

“We are calling for compulsory education within our schools on consent and we hope that is something that leads to wider discussion.”

Ms Faiumu said the protesters had received support from a number of MPs, and she hoped Ms Bennett’s promise their voices were being heard and changes were being made was true.

MPs from other parties also supported the protest.

 

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101 Comments

  1. David

     /  13th March 2017

    “This could be a turning point in teen attitudes towards sex, making it loud and clear that crappy and disrespectful and abusive behaviour and sexual predation and assault is not the norm and is not acceptable.”

    Can you please point out when in NZ sexual predation and assault was a norm?

    Reply
    • I didn’t phrase that as well as I should have. Too many people seem to see sexual predation and assault as the norm, hence the high rates of both, and accepted as a norm by at least some young people as illustrated by the Facebook comments exposed recently.

      Reply
      • David

         /  14th March 2017

        Facebook comments by a small number of teenage boys bragging to each other with total bullshit is not a norm of society make.

        If it was the norm, rape & sexual assault would not be against the law. Given that it is, and is also actively prosecuted and carries a high degree of disgust for the vast majority of New Zealanders, I contend there is no rape culture in NZ.

        Congo has a rape culture. NZ does not.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  14th March 2017

          Well I can see a young lady in that photo Pete’s posted has a sign that makes the same point, so probably we should just agree with you & her, admonish boys who think this shit is brillo masculine talk, and get on with other important stuff. The internet is proving a real curse to the young, isn’t it? What the heck are they being taught about it?

          Reply
  2. More knee-jerk reaction from a generation brought up to feel rather than think. By ignoring human nature and denying the masculine drive for competition, mastery and accomplishment they try to rewrite DNA by shouting. The irony here is that after decades of women’s empowerment and men’s emasculation, the patrician attitude of men being solely responsible for women’s safety persists.

    Can we assume that these feckless young girls will also be similarly educated about the risks of drinking too much, dressing and behaving provocatively, associating with unknown males, staying out too late or ignoring parental warnings?

    Fat chance.

    Reply
    • “By ignoring human nature and denying the masculine drive for competition, mastery and accomplishment”

      You’re excusing posting about raping drunk girls with that? Trying to have sex with drunks is a very poor and shameful example of “the masculine drive for competition”.

      I think most men would be inclined to help and protect a girl who got too drunk to protect herself, and it’s important for young people as well as older people to express disgust at predatory behaviour.

      Reply
      • It was not this post I was referring to, but the protesters and their failure to comprehend the bigger picture. The boys concerned were at their peak masculinity but with the diminished impulse control of the adolescent male. Of course they’re going to try to get women drunk so they can have sex with them. Nothing new there, eh? But excoriating these boys and treating the girls as blameless prey is part of the Left’s gestural politics in their search for a victim constituency.

        Reply
          • Anyone else at Onslow College in the early ’60s? Remember the infamous groundkeeper’s shed event? Mr Boyle opening the door, seeing some boys with Hillary and Christine in their underwear and asking, “What’s going on here?” And the affable, tall and handsome Andy Barber saying, “Get at the end of the queue and find out.”?

            No alcohol (as I recall reports), no rape culture, no force, just boys and girls being boys and girls.

            Reply
        • Getting women or girls drunk to have sex with them without consent is not what I’d call “peak masculinity”, and I’m sure many fathers would condemn that sort of behaviour.

          Reply
          • “Peak masculinity” is a testosterone thing, Pete, and it’s all downhill from there.

            Reply
            • patupaiarehe

               /  13th March 2017

              Hey there Kit, I thought you were only interested in ‘Islamic issues’. Good to see you participating in another discussion. As much as I hate to admit it, you are almost half right. Almost….

            • I was almost going to say the same thing about your post, patupaiarehe!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  13th March 2017

              Yes, Kit has definitely got a point worth making. Good to see him doing it well.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  13th March 2017

              Touche’ Kit. I suspect if there was a little more ‘honest education’, the teens would realise that alcohol isn’t necessary… It’s actually more trouble than it’s worth…

            • That’s an adult response, and one that certainly didn’t apply to me in my youth, despite my mother saying exactly the same thing. I suspect it won’t make a huge impression on perhaps the bulk of teenagers of today.

              The ‘half-right’ implied in my response to your post was that as you state it, it can’t be faulted, but it was directed at males. Young women need to be made aware of the power and the effect they have over men, and to be able to control it and themselves, and, in turn, manage the more responsible males they interact with.

              As an aside, despite all the fuss and protests, no prosecutions resulted from the Roast Busters case, nor, as far as I am aware, are arising from the Wellington College issue. While some under-age girls had complained about the RB, there were clearly issues with a prosecution case. It may be the same with WC, in that the girls may hold themselves, at least in part, responsible for their situation. It could be quite wrong to regard them as totally innocent victims. On the other hand, prosecution of the males may be a way of enforcing moral behaviour on others by example. But police will need a secure case.

            • “It may be the same with WC, in that the girls may hold themselves, at least in part, responsible for their situation. It could be quite wrong to regard them as totally innocent victims.”

              This is an age old excuse line for disgraceful male behaviour. In effect you are saying it is the fault of the victims. Do you think girls and women should be made to stay at home, never drink alcohol, and not go out in public without a male protector? You know, like in another culture you keep criticising?

            • The problem with “disgraceful male behaviour” is that protesters et al consider it a ‘culture’ and ignore that there are the far stronger forces at work driven by the reptilian cortex, ones which will thus recur in every generation. It’s totally naïve to assume that the girls in the RB and WC cases didn’t have an active role to play. If the lessons patupaiarehe suggest are implemented, they must also include lessons for girls on how they should behave too.

              Talking about “another culture [I] keep criticising,” compare the RB and WC incidents and the vociferous protests about these schoolkids with the events in Rotherham and Sheffield. There it WAS a case of rape culture which made RB and WC look literally like child’s play. But the protesters in that case were from the far right, with the anti-Nazi counter-protests actually supporting those later convicted of horrendous behaviour.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  13th March 2017

              Great that we agree on something Kit. Who’d have thought….

    • Won’t Islam will take care of that, Kit? Dress ’em up in niqabs and stone them for fornicating.

      Reply
  3. Corky

     /  13th March 2017

    I look at those women and girls. What do I see? Women who statistically wont be raped. Where are the women whom have a greater chance of being raped… completely oblivious is my guess. In fact many women in lower socio economic areas accept rape or sexual assault may be a part of their lives.

    Reply
  4. NewKek

     /  13th March 2017

    I don’t believe it is or ever was normal, hence the outrage. Very hesitant to indulge the term “rape culture” as it takes the heat off genuine rape cultures where sexual assault and rape are normalised and even encouraged based on a woman’s dress i.e. in some strata of Islamic cultures.

    Reply
    • Do you know what comments were made on Facebook that triggered all this? It sounded like normalising rape amongst schoolboys.

      Reply
      • Absolutely, but it’s barely a rape “culture”. It’s a culture where incidents of rape occur and where sometimes the filthy and dark language of teen masculine bravado that lads that age are wont to indulge in becomes public. My main concern is that radfems tend to broaden this macho tripe to all men in general in their neverending effort to peer into our minds and seek the evil in us they can get outraged about.

        That we’ve jumped on these boys so viciously and protested outside parliament is evidence that “rape culture” is just another concocted strand of third wave victim culture that radfems use to keep their adherents feeble, fearful and forever in their cult.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  14th March 2017

          Is there a bottle of hyperbolic acid at your place with the top off?

          Reply
          • Nope. I believe that young men and women need education around things like consent and relationships without falling victim to “rape culture” nonsense.

            Do you believe third wave feminism is an empowering ideology? I’ve been following it for quite a while now.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              I think some schoolgirls got pissed off with some smutty older schoolboys. It’s probably a good thing they got publicly blousy about it. They should know better about that sort of thing, & the internet, sometimes the best lessons are the outrageous ones. It’ll blow over.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Well, I see the downtick for me and the uptick for you, possibly both from you, but, the thing is, while you’re obviously of the view, and so are some other blokes here, that this sort of thing is perfectly normal and thus ok for adolescent boys, it would never occur to me or any of my mates to say or do what these boys did.

              And we’d all be perfectly happy to demonstrate healthy levels of testosterone by giving you a bloody nose if you suggested we were abnormal and obviously emasculatedly feminised, & say we were provoked when you ran off crying to the Police about assault.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Those boys’ mums, sisters, and aunties must be so proud of them.

            • I doubt very much that anyone is proud of what happened here or think that this is normal. It does occur though, very much outside the purview of civilised society and despite the dim view that the public takes of these thoughts, expressions and actions. Therefore, I highly doubt that this is a “culture”. Nice of you to show us just how pure of mind and thought you are though.

              Just like an entire generation of teens listening to gangsta rap didn’t lead to a murder culture. I believe much of this guff is pure teen bravado and entirely fantastical in nature, much like your attempt to appear hard.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Well no, it’s not an attempt to appear hard it’s just my way of illustrating that the idea this is normal healthy boy stuff & so worth defending because for you obviously women & some better brought up boys getting pissed off about yet another incidence of this sort of attitude turning up with schoolboys must be radfem subversion at work. Why not sit down and have a beer and a think.

          • Absolutely not defending these kids. But that’s what they are: kids. And this kind of language does occur. Fully support intervening before language turns to action, but I don’t believe for one second that the progression is automatic and expected.

            They absolutely have the right to be pissed off about these incidents. I just don’t believe it’s useful to call it a “culture”; that’s where radfem ideology clouds the issue.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Too right rape culture is not our culture. So pointing that out to young dickheads who’ve got the idea it’s theirs need reminding of that.

  5. patupaiarehe

     /  13th March 2017

    Until sex education is improved, people can stand outside of parliament, and protest all they like, but nothing will change. I discuss my eldest son’s so called ‘sex education’ with him pretty regularly, & he laughs as much as I do. Here are the problems I see with the ‘status quo’.
    1. Boys don’t get educated on how to ‘pleasure a woman’.
    By the age of 15, most young lads have figured out how to ‘pleasure themselves’. A little education on how the ‘unreproductive’ parts of the female anatomy, bring a woman pleasure, might make life a whole lot more enjoyable for the ‘fairer sex’, as well as the lads…
    2. Boys don’t get told, that girls enjoy sex too.
    It isn’t something that you have to ‘trick them into’, and is never something they should be forced in to. Boys need to be educated on how to show their interest, in a tasteful way. And be told that ‘catcalls’ & ‘wolf whistles’ won’t get the desired result.
    3. Boys don’t get told the difference between ‘a shag’ & ‘making love’.
    It’s pretty self explanatory, to those of us who are over 25. Not so much to a 16 year old. Falling ‘in love’ with someone elses genitalia, is a really bad idea…
    4. Boys don’t get told, that if you find a young woman, who really catches your eye, every time you see her, make a point of telling her you’ve noticed her. Tell her how great she looks. Ask her about herself, & what she likes, because that is a girl’s favourite subject 😀 And pay attention to what she says, because you might just think of the perfect place to take her, on your next date…

    Reply
  6. What I do not understand is the complete and utter lack of ability of men who are guilty of horrible behaviour towards women to see such attacks from the other perspective. Definitely more needs to be done to educate people before adulthood about consensual behaviour rather than treating men and women as completely separate beings who will have radically different experiences when they become adults.

    Reply
    • patupaiarehe

       /  13th March 2017

      Men & Women are ‘seperate beings’, Ethan. Most men enjoy a ‘receptive audience’, but a minority prefer to force themselves upon an unreceptive one. You can’t educate such individuals, because life is all about them, from their perspective.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  13th March 2017

        As I said, no-one can spell separate, patu.

        Reply
        • patupaiarehe

           /  13th March 2017

          Except for you, Sir… 😛

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  13th March 2017

            Nope I get that one right consistently. I screwed up with vengeance twice the other day, but, you know, man projects, back pain, lack of sleep, Baldwin Street towel rail … allowances should be made imo. 😳

            Reply
      • I think that is quite a defeatist attitude as you cannot definitively say such people are beyond help

        Reply
        • patupaiarehe

           /  13th March 2017

          So you would be happy to have a paroled rapist living next door to you Ethan?

          Reply
          • I suppose you’re right in saying no perfect solution can be achieved, but I genuinely think that talking about such issues in schools is a great way in which to foster respect between genders.

            Reply
    • I just want to commend you Ethan for putting simple human EMPATHY into the discussion … despite it subsequently getting side-tracked over …

      I have strong personal views about it, no doubt coloured and perhaps extreme …

      I reckon you could safely say to a child on their first day of school, “You are now entering an environment almost completely devoid of empathy and where empathy is of little worth or usefulness to you … Try to forget about it”

      Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  13th March 2017

    An obvious factor is that these boys are at a single sex boys school where girls are unavailable and not part of the conversation. So they become “the other” and the conversation becomes extreme and unrealistic. This is a segregation culture rather than a rape culture.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  14th March 2017

      I think that has a lot to do with it Alan. I had a cousin who went to an all girls school (worse still a Catholic girls school), when she went to University she went a little nuts with the opposite sex, it took her a couple of years for her to settle down, but she was going out with most of the males in her year in the beginning. This was pre-facebook days, so I can only imagine what it must be like at the moment.

      Reply
      • Nelly Smickers

         /  14th March 2017

        Goodness….your cousin wasn’t a boarder at *St Mary’s* back in the 80’s by any chance, was she Missy ❓

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  14th March 2017

        How come they call it the opposite sex instead of, say, the complementary one?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  14th March 2017

          Probably because most of them are just opposite and only a very few are complementary, G.

          Reply
  8. Gezza

     /  13th March 2017

    Jacinda had anything to say yet? Thinking of the children, I mean.

    Reply
    • Kevin

       /  14th March 2017

      She’s too busy being deputy of some minor party and doing photo ops with her dad.

      Reply
  9. Kevin

     /  14th March 2017

    The majority of rapes involve alcohol. Before we start thinking about what to do about our imaginary rape culture, let’s get our booze culture under control.

    Reply
    • “The majority of rapes involve alcohol.”

      Really? What are the actual stats?

      Regardless, why don’t we address an appalling attitude to sex by some people at the same time as we address our harmful booze culture?

      Sexual predators – and that’s what the Facebook comments that suggested targeting unconscious girls for sex supports – shouldn’t get off the hook by until an unsolvable problem is completely solved.

      Reply
      • Kevin

         /  14th March 2017

        https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/campus/pages/alcohol.aspx

        “At least half of sexual assaults among college students occur after the perpetrator, the victim, or both consume alcohol. Alcohol use can increase the risk of sexual assault in several ways. Alcohol use by a potential assailant can lead to increased aggressive behavior and an inability to interpret another person’s sexual interest accurately. Research also shows that college students — both men and women — believe that dates are more likely to include sexual intercourse when both participants drink alcohol. A study of sexual assault victims — half of whom were college students — found that women who were drinking when an assault took place reported that their intoxication made them take risks that they would normally avoid. Alcohol consumption can also undermine a person’s ability to resist an assault or sexual advance.”

        Admittedly the figures are for college students so the figures may not be exactly representative but roughly the same.

        “Sexual predators – and that’s what the Facebook comments that suggested targeting unconscious girls for sex supports – shouldn’t get off the hook by until an unsolvable problem is completely solved.”

        Damn straight they shouldn’t get off the hook. Writing those comments is something they should made to feel ashamed of and regret for the rest of their lives. But let’s put things in perspective here. It’s not proof of rape culture. And unless there is evidence these idiots were serious it’s not suggesting targeting drunk girls for sex. It’s adolescent bravado and locker-room talk.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  14th March 2017

          How do you know that?

          Reply
          • Kevin

             /  14th March 2017

            It’s called having an opinion. 🙂

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              What do you base it on? Is it what you used to do?

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Kev?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th March 2017

              Ad hom, G. You lose.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              It is NOT an ad hom, Al. It’s an honest question. It’s not like Kevin is going to have his identity splashed all over the front pages of the newspapers for answering it. What – are you some kind of censor now? What’s going on with you today?

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Look just in case there’s any confusion, My question is in relation to this:

              “And unless there is evidence these idiots were serious it’s not suggesting targeting drunk girls for sex. It’s adolescent bravado and locker-room talk.”

              So, if it’s not so bad, because it’s just adolescent bravado & locker room talk, he know this – how? Is this sort of locker room talk what he used to do?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th March 2017

              Have you stopped beating your wife is also a question, G. And Katie H just got sued successfully for a question. I win again.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Don’t be obtuse Al. “Locker room talk” is obviously not a crime. I think the sort of “locker room talk” people here are saying is not so bad & just normal adolescent boy stuff is grossly distasteful & even as an adolescent boy would avoid dickheads any who indulged in that sort of talk or behaviour, but I only ever knew one & he was a shithead anyway. He actually did do this though.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th March 2017

              Contradicting yourself in spades, G. Ad homs don’t need to imply criminality and rarely do. You were implying Kevin was a “dickhead/shithead” to use your own words. Give up and go back to your laundry.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              Oh bullshit. I’m talking about the one sleazebag I knew at school. He was a loudmouth & a bully & good looking & charming to the ladies & eventually got done for rape. Not everybody follows through with this sort of talk, obviously, but where do boys get the idea talking about getting girls drunk enough to have sex with them is perfectly acceptable whether they’re consenting or not?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th March 2017

              Diversion.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              I don’t know what the penalty was. If you mean you’re diverting, why are you doing it?

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              And in case you’re wondering Al, as soon as they dropped & the testosterone levels shot up I went after it like a buck rabbit which mum wasn’t happy about & gave me all sorts of warnings about not getting a girl pregnant, but I knew enough to make sure they were old enough and I wanted a willing partner, not to get some chick so drunk she wouldn’t wtf was happening.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              * know.
              And I also kept quiet about it because half our parents were always on the blower to each other tracking us.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  14th March 2017

            Yes, usually the talkers are not the doers, G, and almost certainly in this case.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              I was actually embarrassed going in to the chemists to buy my first packet of condoms and he sold them to me in hushed tones in a brown paper bag.

            • PDB

               /  14th March 2017

              I’d imagine being the ‘thimble-sized’ variety didn’t help?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  14th March 2017

              Unkind, unfair and almost certainly untrue, PDB.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              No, I was just didn’t want to ask the female front shop lady, so I had to wait for him & I just wanted him to sell me a packet of the things. But he asked me what kind I wanted & I had no idea there were choices, so the plan of looking like I was I cooly experienced at this kind of transaction fell apart. Then I couldn’t get it on properly when unbelievably through good fortune the first actual two-party opportunity presented itself, & then it was a disaster I won’t go into. In the end I got the hang of it.

              I was the only one bringing home girlfriends. The other two brothers weren’t interested at that stage, or maybe the girls weren’t, I wasn’t really focussed much on them. Mum assumed I was up to it long before I was. I was just found girls fascinating.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              “I’d imagine being the ‘thimble-sized’ variety didn’t help?”

              The only bloke I know who confessed to that actually said, at a jam session, “no, it’s true, I’m hung like a mouse” never lacked for girlfriends & has the sexiest looking & sounding Mrs so I’ve assumed he had a phenomenal expansion capacity.

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              It’s all got a bit smutty. Wasn’t intended. Probably my fault, but I was provoked. Czech Exit.

            • Nelly Smickers

               /  14th March 2017

              Certainly put me off my lunch o_O

            • Gezza

               /  14th March 2017

              It happens. Katie Hopkins put me off sausages for months.
              Kitty put me off kippers probably forever.

  10. Alrich Steer

     /  14th March 2017

    Wow. Rape culture hey!!! I would really love to see the statistics and when exactly is it considered to be a culture?
    What about women that claim rape when in fact it was consentual? I wonder what the statistics on that is and when it will be considered a culture?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  14th March 2017

      Good question. See what stats you can find on this & report back?

      Reply
      • Alrich Steer

         /  14th March 2017

        I didn’t make the claim that there was a rape culture. I would have thought that the idiots that made the claim did the research. I suggest to you that the figures are purely heuristic. Typical Kiwi mentality. You do the research as I think it is a lot of bullocks.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  14th March 2017

          Well, I see your point that you are not that interested in doing some research. Haven’t downticked you btw because if you’re used to bullocks I try to support our farmers.

          Reply
          • Alrich Steer

             /  15th March 2017

            Auto corrected. Bollocks or do you prefer Bullshit? Answer the question instead of looking for an excuse. Why do you expect me to waste my time to do research to debunk a theory you are unable to provide a single shred of evidence for?

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  15th March 2017

            I’ve got a slight bias. Brother spent years prosecuting rapists & watching them get off over consent claims because no witnesses & the victims weren’t virgins.
            Re research, fair enough. You were only idly wondering. We don’t have a national rape culture in NZ. Anyone saying that is going OTT. We have a group of Blokes & a few Sheilas who regularly claim those with a rape culture or fixation are just locker room talkers.

            Reply
            • We don’t have any sort of specific national culture. We have a diverse mix of cultures.

            • Gezza

               /  15th March 2017

              Yeah we do. We just haven’t defined it & only tend to identify bits of it when someone does something that clearly offends against those bits.

            • Alrich Steer

               /  15th March 2017

              I’m glad that you are brave enough to expose your bias. How many men have on the other hand been falsely accused of rape or sexual assault? Bias no matter how slight can be very dangerous. Almost like being only slightly racist. Be careful especially if you are practicing. Maybe time for a change.

          • Gezza

             /  15th March 2017

            Oh there’s no question that definitely happens Alrich. But it also happens that girls who got raped & work up the guts to go to Court get trashed before the jury. Their irrelevant history is fair game & the rapist’s relevant history is inadmissable. Result: “Reasonable Doubt.”
            Reality – she was raped. Statistic – she wasn’t.

            Reply
  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  14th March 2017

    Isn’t it blindingly obvious we don’t have rape culture but we do have a booze culture? Which affects both sexes and potentially seriously damages both sexes?

    Reply
  12. Griff

     /  14th March 2017

    Culture is not homogeneous.
    Within our society there are many different cultures .
    That these boys think it is OK to rape an unconscious or heavily intoxicated woman is their culture .
    Hence the face book comments are a symptom of rape culture among a small minority..
    To excuse it as the twittering of adolescent boys ignores that such ideas come from somewhere. Some older men have the same ideas around woman and their objectification as merely sexual targets not as fellow human beings .

    “Sex should be friendly. Otherwise stick to mechanical toys; it’s more sanitary.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  14th March 2017

      Regardless of the word’s true meaning it is obvious that by using the word ‘culture’ they are trying to paint the situation as ‘common’ or ‘widespread’ – which it isn’t.

      Otherwise under your precise definition we have a ‘culture’ in everything including beastilality and necrophilia because the odd person undertake such practices.

      Reply
      • Griff

         /  14th March 2017

        A group of boys….
        This is not a lone case or even highly unusual.
        I have meet people who are happy to boast of F**cking a drunken chick or deliberately target drunken chicks for sex .
        Such people are usually the same as those who think of a woman as a possession. They believe they have overriding rights over her wishes for ever even if she has rejected them..We see such ideas often when protection orders are broken by men who can not except a woman has a right to reject them .
        I have yet to meet someone who is genuinely into beastilality or necrophilia .

        Reply
        • Nelly Smickers

           /  14th March 2017

          Wayne knew someone once that was into necrophilia……reckoned it was dead boring.

          Reply
        • PDB

           /  14th March 2017

          Again you are failing to acknowledge that ‘culture’ as used in this case is being used to mean ‘common’.

          A ‘small group of men that rape’ is not quite as catchy or imposing……..places like India have a ‘rape culture’.

          Reply
          • Griff

             /  14th March 2017

            Culture is not being used to mean common.
            The overwhelming majority of modern Kiwis respect and treat woman as equals .
            http://www.dictionary.com/browse/culture

            culture
            5.
            the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group:
            the youth culture; the drug culture. ……..

            Not all of us are druggy’s or youth in fact the majority are not .

            It is valid to use rape culture to discuss the minority parts of society that partake or affirm the practice of drug induced rape without projecting that it is a normal or an acceptable part of our society .

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  14th March 2017

              About time you upgrade your knowledge on the term ‘rape culture’…..(my emphasis)

              “The term “rape culture” was first coined in the 1970s in the United States by second-wave feminists, and was applied to contemporary American culture as a whole”. “The concept of rape culture posited that RAPE WAS COMMON AND NORMAL in American culture, and that it was one extreme manifestation of pervasive societal misogyny and sexism.”

              “The first published use of the term appears to have been in 1974 in Rape: The First Sourcebook for Women, edited by Noreen Connell and Cassandra Wilson for the New York Radical Feminists.[22] In the book, the group stated that “our ultimate goal is to eliminate rape and that goal cannot be achieved without a revolutionary transformation of our society.”[23] This book, along with Susan Brownmiller’s 1975 Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, was among the earliest to include first-person accounts of rape. Their authors intended to demonstrate that rape was a much more COMMON crime than previously believed”

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

  13. Griff

     /  14th March 2017

    Their authors intended to demonstrate that rape was a much more COMMON crime than previously believed”

    Surveys of victims rather than crime statistics affirm that idea .
    Much more common does not mean it is common just that the reported incidences to the authority’s is less than the actual numbers of such crimes committed.
    If you have ever known a victim who has gone though a rape trial you would know why .

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  14th March 2017

      That maybe so but has nothing to do with our discussion. Above I’ve shown that the origins of the term ‘rape culture’ is that rape is common and normal in the society in which the term is used. A few smutty and misguided school boys does not represent the whole male population of New Zealand so to say NZ has a ‘rape culture’ is wrong. As you said yourself “The overwhelming Majority of modern kiwis respect and treat women as equals………..”.

      Reply
  14. “DO YOU REMEMBER? The Mazengarb inquiry into ‘juvenile delinquency’ blamed the perceived promiscuity of the nation’s youth on working mothers, easy availability of contraceptives, and young women enticing men into having sex.

    In July 1954 the government appointed lawyer Dr Oswald Mazengarb to chair a Special Committee on Moral Delinquency in Children and Adolescents. They established the committee after a teenage sex scandal in Lower Hutt and other high-profile incidents such as a milk-bar murder in Auckland and the Parker–Hulme killing (see 22 June).

    The report, sent to every New Zealand home, blamed lack of parental supervision for juvenile delinquency and advocated a return to Christianity and traditional values. Excessive wages for teenagers, a decline in family life, and the influence of film, comics, and American literature all apparently contributed to the problem. The report provided a basis for new legislation that introduced stricter censorship and restrictions on contraceptive advice to young people.

    Despite the public outrage it caused, the Mazengarb report and other government papers and inquiries that followed in the 1960s and 1980s had no observable impact on young people’s behaviour.”

    This was around in my teenage years that preceded Rock n Roll and the Bodgie and Widgie times. Bill Haley and the Comets were the sound. The Korean war was winding down after the WW2 deprivations and the dads were home ans those that could had resettled into a family environment. Rationing was over. Then we got this report! It was sent to each home and I was given our copy to read. It was fundamental to my sex education.

    Now, some 60 plus years on, all I can say is what goes around comes around. My sisters were horrified that their gender was regarded as the perpetrators. A lasting memory I had was being questioned by the local police constable about what we had heard about his pregnant daughter’s relationships. It was common knowledge who the father was, but none of us could bring ourselves to tell her father. Made me think, that is for sure!

    Reply
  15. Pete Kane

     /  14th March 2017

    Great contribution BJ. Younger readers really would be stunned at the national uproar following the report.

    Reply
    • Thanks Pete. The younger readers should Google the report on Wikipeadia and have a read about how their grandparents were viewed by people of the time. Sex has apparently taken over from two consenting adults making love. More’s the pity, they don’t know what they are missing!

      Reply
      • Yes, very interesting. This is the first I’ve heard of it. I’ll put this up as a post tomorrow if that’s ok with you.

        Reply

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