Corporal punishment proposed after Kaikohe rampage

More police and corporal punishment are suggested solutions after a rampage in Kaikohe.

NZ Herald: Police nab one teen after rampage in Kaikohe

The weekend’s trouble started on Friday when about half a dozen youths walked into The Shed liquor store on Marino Court and walked out with about 10 boxes of beer.

Police tracked them to a party on Shaw St but with just two officers, and the adults at the party defending the youths, there was little they could do, Taylor said.

At about 1am on Saturday, a group of about 20 youngsters tried to break into the Mobil service station.

Taylor said the group was like “a pack of deranged animals” trying to kick in the doors and throwing rocks at the glass.

They did not get in but caused about $1000 of damage to the iwi-owned service station.

Taylor said there weren’t enough police in the district to handle such situations.

People are understandably concerned and frustrated but it is simply not feasible to have enough police numbers available in small towns around the clock to deal with occasional incidents like this.

At the time of the attempted break-in at Mobil, police were attending incidents in Waipapa, Kerikeri and Kawakawa, as well as a crash at Oromahoe.

A sergeant and one other officer were in Kaikohe and police reached the service station three minutes after the first 111 call, Symonds said.

There will always be times that the police struggle to cope, especially with major incidents in relatively remote areas.

On Friday night most staff were deployed to Paihia and Kerikeri because that was where problems were expected.

And they can’t accurately guess where the problems will occur.

A 13-year-old has been apprehended by police after a group of youths – some thought to be as young as 11 – went on a rampage; helping themselves to boxes of beer from a liquor store and trying to smash their way into a service station.

The ages of those involved must be a real worry.

Radio NZ: Bring back corporal punishment in schools – National rep

The chair of the National Party’s Kaikohe branch, Alan Price, said systems were not in place to deal with growing drug use and young people running riot in his town and others.

“Whilst we need more police, there’s a bigger underlying problem here,” he said.

Mr Price told Morning Report the solution was to put corporal punishment back into schools.

Though the do-gooders would not like it, something needed to be done, he said.

“You can’t raise children without discipline and we’re getting into the situation where we’ve got an uncontrollable rat race that you can’t do anything with in this country.

“Until we stand up to it and do something about it and change the law that means you can discipline somebody for something they do wrong – to me it is a form of child abuse not to raise a child with discipline.”

Discipline – yes, but the country has moved on from using physical violence to try and teach children not to be violent.

I don’t know what Price’s party connections were highlighted, this is presumably his person reaction, not party policy.

The MP for Northland, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters, said the catch-and-release principle for young offenders had to change if youth crime in the area was to be curbed.

He said the number of charges had fallen despite a rise in criminal offences. “If you’re going to have discipline, then you’ve going to have to ensure that rather than have a catch and release policy, like some game fishing outfit, we actually charge these people with crimes, and we’re not doing it.”

Is Peters suggesting catch and imprison?

Once again people are rushing to offer simplistic solutions to complex problems.

The Kaikohe community needs to work together on how to address this problem. Their youths were vandalising their own community’s property.

 

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52 Comments

  1. Nelly Smickers

     /  March 20, 2017

    ‘Mr Price told Morning Report, “Though the *do-gooders* would not like it, something needed to be done….” he said’.

    Yep…well.I’m all for it! Cane the rotten little scumbags. What about you PG….where do you stand on this ❓

    Reply
    • You know very well where I stand on it – as I said, we have moved on (in part at least) from the insanity of expecting that violence will teach children not to be violent.

      Reply
      • Nelly Smickers

         /  March 20, 2017

        Sorry PG, I had *no idea* where you stood on this *particular* subject. I knew you were happy to provide free board & keep to rapists and murderers for a few years, but I just wondered if you may have held a different view on the matter of *Corporal* punishment. Appreciate your quick response. N

        Reply
        • “I knew you were happy to provide free board & keep to rapists and murderers for a few years”

          You ‘knew’ wrong, unless this is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent my views.

          Perhaps you can clarify what you mean by this. It looks like you’re suggesting you support favour capital punishment. If that’s the case, which crimes do you think should qualify?

          Reply
          • Nelly Smickers

             /  March 20, 2017

            I don’t think it’s any secret PG to all my followers, where I stand on the matter of *Capital punishment*. I’m sure like a lot of people here, I could give you the names of at least a dozen or more murdering rapist scumbags, currently serving time, that if the death penalty was available’ I would gladly put a bullet into the back of their heads….and this coming from a girl in Remuera lets you know exactly how deep I feel about it.

            Reply
    • NOEL

       /  March 20, 2017

      Corporal punishment for that group of people will have no effect at all.
      When my children were going to school choices and consequences was a part of the curriculum. I noticed that the ratbags were quickest to pick it up.

      If the only alternative is Youth Court where the victim has no say and the process is manipulated by the offenders representatives and family this type of behavior will continue.

      Betcha that group has multiple diversions on their record already.

      Reply
  2. Corky

     /  March 20, 2017

    Already posted corporal punishment is need.

    ‘Discipline – yes, but the country has moved on from using physical violence to try and teach children not to be violent.”

    I, and many others haven’t moved on, Pete. And neither have these young scum bags. They are brought up with ” the bash” They understand that. To treat them liberally is to earn their odium. Corporal punishment isn’t simplistic…its simply effective.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  March 21, 2017

      If it’s what they are used to, it will have little effect. It would just be a legal form of what they know-and tell them that violence is all right.

      Reply
  3. One of a kind

     /  March 20, 2017

    What most people fail to realise is that when a Police Officer has to deal with an unrully teenager(s) this is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

    For those (like our esteemed host) who equate a smack on the bum with bruises and black eyes think about this:

    What is better:

    1 A kid grows up knowing no physical boundaries or discipline, is disruptive at school, drops out and ends up on the street offending and causing mayhem. That kid then learns boundaries the hard way via a can of pepper spray, or a discharged Taser, or a Police dog hanging off their arm. They still don’t learn as they have hardened in their ways and end up with a career of lags in the likes of Waikeria or Springhill.

    2 The same kid grows up and when they throw temper tantrums at 3 or 4 years old, they get a short sharp, smack on the bum that tells the kid that this is unacceptable. The kid learns that living within boundaries produces a good experience and bucking the system brings pain.
    This kid grows up with an innate respect for their parents and society and the closest they ever come to run ins with Police is getting stopped for speeding a couple of times.

    It used to be that people had the common sense to realise that Option 2 was the best route for kids but now with the rise of the snowflake generation – oh no – smacking is of the devil – oh but all these little criminals – maybe we should give them more hugs?

    Reply
    • NOEL

       /  March 20, 2017

      Nah you’re putting too much focus on a smack on the bum.
      Lot of kids around today since the rules were changed that have only had time out and they are turning out ok.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  March 21, 2017

        If the young criminals had had more hugs and fewer blows, they might not be criminals.

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  March 21, 2017

      Reply
  4. MaureenW

     /  March 20, 2017

    …”…we’re getting into the situation where we’ve got an uncontrollable rat race that you can’t do anything with in this country.”

    Says it all really, an uncontrollable rat-race. They laugh at liberal panty waists and would be better off being seconded into some military training or such-like where they can at least learn some useful skills and gain some pride.

    Reply
    • NOEL

       /  March 20, 2017

      Please do some homework first. All studies of Military type “boot”camps have produced the same outcome. Impressive reduction in recidivism but only after the first year. Not surprising.
      Go back 3 years later and they are back into the same habits.

      Reply
  5. High Flying Duck

     /  March 20, 2017

    Corporal punishment, when administered properly, should be very rarely required.

    If children are taught at a very young age that actions have consequences it has lasting positive effects.

    Corporal punishment is immediate so the association of the act and the punishment is strong. It also means you can administer the punishment and then move on.

    Once children get older though and can be reasoned with to some extent (over 5 or 6 years) i’m not sure it has the same effect.

    The problem is not that corporal punishment was abolished, but more that consequences in general have been abolished and responsibilities have been all but forgotten in the race to ensure everyone has their rights.

    Kids know all too well that they can do what they like and figures of authority have little real power to do anything about it these days. One way or another this is what needs to be changed.

    Reply
    • NOEL

       /  March 20, 2017

      Yah got it. They worked out early either for themselves or from their rat bag mates that the consequences aint that much of a deterrent.

      Reply
  6. Griff

     /  March 20, 2017

    I can guarantee that these kids come from homes where corporal punishment is part of life.

    Teaching kids that violence is ok from authority is just training them to be violent when they have authority over others resulting in a never ending cycle of violence .

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  March 20, 2017

      Should be a simple choice: pay reparation or stay in jail.

      Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  March 20, 2017

      So why do we have more violent youth today, since the anti-smacking law came into effect 8 years ago?
      The truth is that these kids want to be seen as tough-guys, and have taken no opportunity to direct their toughness into something constructive. Truth is, they’re lazy, anti-social dumb-nuts – but feel free Griff, give them a hug and blow them a few kisses

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  March 20, 2017

        so how do you feel Maureen…when you are physically barged away….from the …buffet..table?

        Reply
        • MaureenW

           /  March 20, 2017

          Sad for fat bastards with no social skills – only drive is greed

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  March 20, 2017

            you may find PDB disagrees with that,his good friends are both obese and a burden on the NZ taxpayer but they cannot….beat their addiction to ..over eating…it may even be those 3 amigos …shunting you away ..from the…feast.

            Reply
            • MaureenW

               /  March 20, 2017

              FW – have you never attended a smorgasbord meal – not my favourite style I’d have to say, but occasionally this is the outcome of an invitation. You’re giving me the impression you’re a fat bastard, when you’re not on the piss.

            • Blazer

               /  March 20, 2017

              sorry Maureen not a ‘fat bastard’,no where near Corkys weight ,definately not obese like PDB’s good friends.I do drink alcohol on occassion.

      • Nelly Smickers

         /  March 20, 2017

        In the case of the *Kaikohe rampage*, there was *one* Sergeant on duty at the time….he had no intention of confronting about fifteen dysfunctional ferals intent on mayhem and destruction, while on his own. Particularly when it’s probably *dollars to donuts*, that the ferals whanau would either be out blowing their benefits on piss, or zonked out on drugs somewhere .

        It’s time to arm all our Police with something like the *Glock 32* ….and disband the pack of snowflakes that form the IPCA. Only then, will we see a marked improvement in behaviour on our streets.

        Try watching *Cops* on CH71 every night 6:30 – 7:30….*what a difference a gun makes*. RESPECT.

        Reply
        • NOEL

           /  March 20, 2017

          It’s about deterrent and who it’s applied to.
          Some as young as 11 oldest at thirteen in Kaikohe..
          Responsibility for those children like every other child in that age bracket in New Zealand is the parents,

          I’m guessing few of the offenders will reach the Youth Court and those who do wont see their parents issued with an parenting order.

          No perceived consequence for their actions or control by the parents mean repetition at a later date.

          Perhaps it’s time to short circuit the system. If there is incontestable evidence that one of these ratbags is involved in an offence, impound his/her prize possessions, probably smart phone at the top of the list.

          .

          Reply
      • Griff

         /  March 20, 2017

        Black and white.
        The bash or hugs and kisses.
        I wish the world I live in was so simple.

        There must be consequence for their actions.
        They will ready know such violence you can not imagine it has not made them magically better people.
        Quite the opposite in fact .

        Gang family’s kids probably already in a crew heading down the path to crime and a life spent mostly in jail.

        We must do more for them early in life or this cycle will just keep on repeating .
        There are probably only a few thousand such family’s all of who are known to the authority
        They are responsible for most of the crime .
        Target the family’s to saturation with cyfs police and school efforts .
        Spend more money on interruption the dysfunction than we do on dealing with the results
        Or we will keep seeing the problems and the cost to society grow .

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  March 21, 2017

          Guns don’t make for respect. If they did, we would respect armed robbers, but we don’t-we fear them. If someone is respected, they don’t need to have a gun. Anyone with a gun is likely to be obeyed, whether they are a cop or a criminal.

          Reply
  7. PDB

     /  March 20, 2017

    The underlying cause to the problem is in this statement (and is nothing to do with corporal punishment):

    “but with just two officers, and the adults at the party defending the youths”

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  March 20, 2017

      Stuff: “We are going to change the town – it is a really good town. There are just a few dysfunctional families and we have got to look at how to solve the dysfunctional people.
      “They [young people] shouldn’t be out, parents don’t care, we need a law change.”

      Herald: “He (Peters) believed much of the youth crime in places such as Kaikohe were “stealing to order”, where adults got youth to steal because they were untouchable.”

      Newshub: “Community patrol co-ordinator Tony Taylor says the town is over this kind of behavior because authorities can’t do anything with the offenders.
      “These kids just run riot,” he says.”

      Reply
      • Brown

         /  March 20, 2017

        The answer is easy. Cut off the welfare. Paying people to act like this seems a tad foolish.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  March 20, 2017

          Rubbish idea. Details later.

          Reply
        • Anonymous Coward

           /  March 20, 2017

          11 year olds are on welfare?

          Reply
          • PDB

             /  March 20, 2017

            I suggest Brown is saying if you can’t get through to the kids then perhaps the parents should be targeted in some way for negligence……….or even a crime if it’s true the ‘adults’ were protecting the kids from the police and were encouraging them to get them stolen liquor. If young kids are out in large groups in the early hours of the morning and committing crime is it not ultimately the parents responsibility?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  March 20, 2017

              Where’s he said that?

            • Gezza

               /  March 20, 2017

              The thing is, if you take away the parents only source of income (assuming they are all on welfare, don’t you just drive them into crime? Something I read somewhere last year about one Maori restorative justice programme had as a component that offenders were shamed. Not in a “put in the stocks” way, but in a way that made clear to them their anti- social actions brought shame on them, their whanau, the hapu. They needed to know & accept that & atone for it with positive restorative behaviours. Too much of this stuff just seems to result in pakeha court appearance, no lasting effect, no appreciation of the harm it does to the community & other law-abiding Maori.

            • PDB

               /  March 20, 2017

              That’s the key Gezza – the community, iwi, other family members etc need to speak out and condemn such behavior. You see it with gangs as well when many people within the community/ family members/friends either fail to speak out against them or protect them by making excuses for their antisocial/ illegal behaviour or by accepting them as they are because they are family or whatever.

              However if that still doesn’t work then other actions should be taken. In this case it has become so bad they should have a night curfew for kids under a certain age and if the parents & their kids don’t get the message after repeated warnings they do community type service and finally you will then have no option but to take a harder line for the parents at least.

  8. PDB

     /  March 20, 2017

    “They did not get in but caused about $1000 of damage to the iwi-owned service station.”

    So if say the service station was owned by Indians that would be OK? What is the point of reporting it as Iwi-owned?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  March 20, 2017

      Dog whistling probably. Kids’ll be mostly Maori, so they’re ripping off their *own people*. I see The Herald’s opened up comments, nothing so far – so maybe just happened?

      Reply
      • MaureenW

         /  March 20, 2017

        A lot of them have shit home lives – generational dysfunction. It’s their normal.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  March 20, 2017

          1Ewes showed a big Maori bloke, as well as the Community Patrol head, both complaining they’ve got no respect for anybody & they’re sick of it. Clearly not enough police & not enough done about the adults who defended them. Time for a Community meeting. The police say they know who most the kids are. Name & shame?

          Reply
  9. Trevors_Elbow

     /  March 20, 2017

    Where this is heading is someone getting seriously hurt or killed. Its not just the far north its across the nation

    Coppers can’t/won’t intervene or if they try the mongrels families support them and its a danger to coppers well being to do anything. They are out number far too often… but when there is something like 6 patrol cars looking after the whole Hutt Valley on a Friday/Saturday night then thugs learn pretty quick the chances of getting caught in the burbs are pretty slim. So burgs, car thief, the odd bashing all become par for the course.

    So I see a scenario where people will just sort things themselves – and that will lead to excessive retaliations handed out by people peeved at playing by the rules but getting no support from government and its law enforcement branch

    Its bubbling away in the more working class suburbs and pretty soon its going to bubble over…

    Reply
  10. Blazer

     /  March 20, 2017

    ‘fire water’ is the root problem,then drugs,no jobs,no future no purpose in life,no chance of the American Dream portrayed on T.V ,so…nothing..to ..lose.

    Reply
  1. Corporal punishment proposed after Kaikohe rampage – NZ Conservative Coalition

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