Time to try Maori prisons?

When I first heard the suggestion by Maori MPs that a Maori run prison be set up in Northland my immediate reaction was nah, we shouldn’t have separate penal systems. But I’ve thought it through and think that it merits serious consideration.

Maori disproportionately feature in prison  and re-offending rates. The current system is not working well. So why not try something different that tries to address core problems.

Critics often say it is up to Maori to fix their own problems, and this Maori Prison proposal does exactly that.

Newshub: Labour proposes Māori prison to fix rising numbers

Labour has come up with a radical solution to the high number of Māori in jail – it wants a separate Māori prison.

It wants to convert an existing prison into one run entirely on Māori values.

“A prison based on Māori values, not exclusively for Māori but for anybody, but they’ll know that the values that the prison will be run under will be based along Māori lines,” Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis told Newshub.

Why not try it? It can’t do much worse than the current penal system.

There are 10052 prisoners and 5077 of them are Māori, making up 50.5 percent of the prison population.

Mr Davis says if Labour wins, he wants to make one of New Zealand’s 18 prisons a prison for Māori, run by Māori on Māori values.

“Why don’t we just try, have the courage to try one of those 18 prisons and run it along kaupapa Māori lines,” he said.

The Maori party supports this: Māori Party backs Māori-run prisons as ‘inevitable’

It is just a matter of time before New Zealand introduces prisons run by Māori applying Māori values, the Māori Party says.

Prime Minister Bill English shot down a proposal, by Labour corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis, on the idea this morning, saying rehabilitation efforts already took Māori values into account.

“It’s incorporated into our [prisons] where it’s appropriate,” he said.

And it’s obviously not working very well.

“We just didn’t see the point in trying to designate – you know, a prison’s a Māori prison and other prisons are not Māori – because actually there’s going to be Maori in all our prisons.”

However, Māori Party co-leader Marama Fox said she had repeatedly raised the idea with the government and did not think it was dead in the water just yet.

“Eventually, in the future, this is going to be inevitable.

“I don’t think it is happening now, but we need to look at what is the pathway to get there – and that is what we’re in discussions about.”

Andrew Little sort of supported the proposal but then as good as ruled it out.

Labour leader Andrew Little said the idea was worth debating, but was not Labour’s official policy.

He did not have “a firm view” on whether separate Māori prisons should be introduced, but said the prison system was not working and something needed to changed.

Mr Little suggested it was sometimes important to have a public debate before forming official policy.

“I’m glad that we’ve got an MP… coming up with creative ideas, new ideas, fresh approaches. That’s important.”

Asked whether it could become official policy before the election, Mr Little said the party was at the “tail end” of its policy formation and the idea was not there.

So he wants to kick the can down the road and fob off the initiative.

But Labour are also trying to secure a big proportion of the Maori vote and are promoting the possibility that 25% of their MPs after the election will be Maori. So why not have 25% of their key election policies addressing big Maori issues?

But one of Labour’s Māori MPs, Adrian Rurawhe, said he would like to see it become formal party policy.

“It’s totally in line with how staff in Māori focus units already operate. So lifting it to another level would have really good outcomes.”

National MP Nuk Korako also said he liked the idea and planned to raise it with Corrections Minister Louise Upston.

“I think a Māori approach to anything is really important. Not only just prisons. If [Kelvin Davis] can get some traction on that, that would be great,” he said.

Mr English said it would not be desirable to create the impression of “some sort of separate system”.

So not just Labour’s Maori MPs, but also a National Maori MP supporting it. And the Greens: Bigger dreams needed for prison reform

Te Taitokerau MP Kelvin Davis is keen to see Northland regional prison at Ngawha run on kaupapa Maori lines, with Greens and Maori Party MPs also sympathetic to the idea.

Unfortunately both Little and English are dismissing it.

Who is more likely to shift on this when they think it through, National with pressure from the Maori Party, or Labour with pressure from their Maori MPs, and perhaps the Maori Party and the Greens?

Others are warming to the idea too.

Martin van Beynen: ‘Lamentable’ Maori incarceration figures demand fresh approach

The idea of special prisons run entirely on Maori values sounds like it is worth a crack.

Things couldn’t really get much worse if you look at the statistics about Maori imprisonment.

Given these lamentable figures and the cost to society – including to the families of offenders – just about anything is worth trying.

The reservation I have with the idea of Maori values is that it’s difficult to know what they are and if they are really going to make a difference.

Nothing much now seems to be making a significant difference, so something else, anything else, is surely worth a try.

Duncan Garner: Why not try a Maori prison? The current penal system is an abject failure

I’m asking for everyone to think outside the square for a few minutes. Please. I support trying a kaupapa Maori prison – run by Maori, for predominately Maori, along Maori lines. Is your blood boiling yet? Bear with me.

The reality is prison is mainly a Maori issue. And the current prison system is an abject failure – they’re just a finishing school for crims and a recruitment dream for gangs.

I’m not talking about the baddest ones. I accept they probably can’t be helped and being locked away is the best answer.

Maori prisons will still be tough jails. Yes, we lock them up each night. But we also take them home to be taught who they are and to meet their whanau.

I’m not suggesting all our jails go this way – let’s just try one. The prison experiment over the past 70 years has been a debacle. Rehabilitation is woefully low, recidivism is painfully high.

What’s the worst that can happen? It doesn’t work? Too late – we’re there. Make Maori responsible for turning around Maori. That’s tino rangatiratanga if I’ve ever seen it.

I liked Labour MP Kelvin Davis’ call for a Maori prison this week. Labour leader Andrew Little didn’t have the balls to support Davis – it’s election year after all and it’s time to re-start peddling all this tough on crime bollocks that politicians spout. Plus Labour prefer their Maori MPs on the doormat to be walked over.

It’s time to try something genuinely new.

It’s contradictory to demand that Maori sort their own problems out and then refuse to let them try.

A Maori prison must be worth a try and must be given a go.

 

43 Comments

  1. Bill Brown

     /  May 13, 2017

    Why is the focus on once they get to prison ??? What about addressing the issues before they start committing crime !!!!

    This is just more ambulance at the bottom of a cliff stuff

    • Ummmm … because that’s the subject of this topic?

      I agree with you Bill Brown, don’t get me wrong … and I believe there are a significant number of programs and initiatives addressing prevention …

      What doesn’t exist yet, IMHO, are enough programs and initiatives that address some of the underlying causes.

      • Bill Brown

         /  May 13, 2017

        You know what I mean !

        Reality is this had been talked about for probably 50 years or more and we are no closer to any sort of resolution that actually works and keeps the cycle of history repeating itself

        It’s a dead duck in my view

        • @ Bill Brown – “no closer to any sort of resolution that actually works and keeps the cycle of history repeating itself”

          When I look as coldly, calmly and impartially as I am capable of doing at an issue or ‘problem’ that’s been talked about for 50 years or more and is no closer to resolution … and a cycle “keeps” repeating itself … One question I will ask, just ONE of many questions, is this –

          – Maybe we somehow DON’T WANT to resolve the problem and we WANT the cycle to repeat itself?

          • MaureenW

             /  May 13, 2017

            Who is we PZ?
            I hope the people responsible for breeding these train-wrecks are the “we” you are referring to.

            • No Maureen, I mean the collective ‘WE’ … The national psyche … the conglomeration of all of us …

              In addition to the individuals who breed – and let’s remember many perfectly ‘respectable’ people breed criminals – there is a ‘body politic’ that creates the circumstances into which they are bred …

              Body politic = the people of a nation, state, or society considered collectively as an organized group of citizens.

          • Bill Brown

             /  May 13, 2017

            @PZ very valid point … perhaps it’s just serving it’s intended purpose? That being the case we as a country have huge problems

  2. Would only increse Maori offending and heighten there sence of thuggishnes. On the plus side non Maori reoffending crime would decrease, and the influence of Maori thugs and gangs in the non Maori prisons would make a far better enviroment for white offenders to be rehibilitated.

    • “sence” ‘rehibilitated’ really? I mean just really? How can anyone be this errant, uneducated? Maori in prison are not connected with actually being Maori i.e. speaking Maori, living by Maori values and mores – whakawhanaungatanga, whanau. They are imprisoned not because of being Maori but because they have lost connection with. I don’t know a single kid that has gone through kohanga reo, kura kaupapa education that has been to jail. I unfortunately know dozens that have attended and failed in public/mainstream schools that have. There may be a kid from a kura kaupapa that has gone to jail but that kid would be the aberration. Being connected, knowing who you are as a Maori is part of the answer, not the problem. The numbers of Maori children from Kura kaupapa schools, Kura a Iwi schools attaining tertiary educations is testament to that.

  3. Oliver

     /  May 13, 2017

    Why not? The current prison system isn’t working. Maori should take responsibility for their own people.

    If the system is broken then you need to change the system.

    • MaureenW

       /  May 13, 2017

      If Maori took responsibility for their own people, there wouldn’t be this discussion about Maori prisons.

      The precise reason why so many Maori are in jail is because child abandonment is common. Breed, give them away for some else to look after, or have them removed by the State due to neglect.

      • So let me get this Right Maureen … The proportion of any ethnicity’s population who are in prison is a direct result of that ethnicity’s failure to “take responsibility for their own people”?

        Hence, the proportion of prisoners in ALL ethnicities added together – e.g. the entire population – represents a failure of the entire population to “take responsibility for their own people” … ?

        • MaureenW

           /  May 13, 2017

          No, but there is a high rate of inter-generational child abandonment in Maori communities that is unusual compared to other communities in NZ. This factor impedes good access to education and other opportunities taken for granted in better structured families . Not to mention personal identity and self worth issues in those children that leads to overuse of drugs and other stimulants. I’m not guessing PZ, I see it first hand.

          • I accept that you see it first hand … that’s your perception … your ‘truth’ …

            But gosh I hope you’re not involved in trying to remedy it.

      • That’s why tino rangatiratanga is essential… so that Māori people can have the power to address our many issues that have resulted from being colonised by uncaring rednecks.

  4. ““It’s totally in line with how staff in Māori focus units already operate. So lifting it to another level would have really good outcomes.”” Big claim – where is the data to back it up?

    What are the recidivist rates for inmates who have done their time in the Maori units within prison already? Are they so spectacularly different that running a whole prison on those principles would make a MATERIAL difference – so 15-20% statistical difference in recidivism over a 5 year rolling average??

    Maori only prisons, Bill brown says above, ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach anyway. Maori leadership needs to stand up and lead – stop making excuses for failure and violence. Call the behaviours and resolve it in your own community….

    What would probably be more effective is hard labour prisons for gang members and \gang associates. With double sentences, visits with solid barriers so nothing could be passed and severe additional sentences for violence, threatening behavior and having contraband. Target the real nasty career thugs and give long sentences and no parole. Won’t fix them but done correctly and targeting gangs in policing would take them off the streets and make life better for everyone else.

    • “Call the behaviours and resolve it in your own community….”

      The race-based, separatist, ‘apartheid’ approach … ?

      “Resolve it in your own community” … like Pakeha do … by not having a community to resolve it in … Actually that’s a bit facetious … Pakeha have the British ‘Crime & Punishment’ system – based on the anonymity of the masses – into which we feed 50% Maori, despite them being only 15% of the population …

      • Yeah Yeah PNZ…. Its all the whiteys fault. Nothing stopping a Maori calling out poor behaviours among his/her non Maori friends and vice versa.

        But non Maori aren’t as wed to the “fine young warrior” bullshit you hear at your Maori friends 21 st – pointing directly at violence as THE Answer…. The mindset is poked and couple it with the never ending we was robbed BS spouted by Maori radicals and fellow travelling apologists its no wonder Maori society in plenty of areas is rooted and has so many inside jails.

        Hence my statement to own your own shit and change the value set…

  5. Conspiratoor

     /  May 13, 2017

    Slow the cycle by introducing cash (the bene) for contraception, deterrent sentences for these thugs and less of the ‘home away from home’ mamby pamby drivel

    There fixed it. Next problem please

  6. The system has only worked in Wartime. Otherwise it is broken and needs to change. I am reluctant to see an Institution of the State turned into a mono-cultural place with staff and prisoners selected by ethnicity. The Pasifika component of our prison population has similar over-representation problems do the not. Are we going to see ethnicity and gender specific prisoners?
    The Maori prison system in complete shape has not yet been tried so maybe it deserves a small trail complete with control groups so we get some of the many questions answered?
    Finally, I caution that we could end up with an ethnic institution that brain washes the inmates into action groups seeking further dominance within our society such as the gangs have achieved. Remember also that Islamic terrorists have used prisons to indoctrinate others to their cause.

  7. Pickled Possum

     /  May 13, 2017

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    Time for a change because as Einstein also says,

    We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

    Time to try Maori prisons.

    • Corky

       /  May 13, 2017

      ”We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

      So what type of thinking do you think we will get in a Maori prison? Maori ministering to Maori.

      Tried that many times.. doesn’t work. When Maori stuff it up, as they usually do…who has to clean the mess up? Yep, it’s European. Then Maori start whining that the measures getting them back on track aren’t culturally correct.

      Such a prison would be a brown version of Serco.

      • Pickled Possum

         /  May 13, 2017

        “Tried that many times.. doesn’t work.”

        Really!!!… Where When and How, has it been tried.
        The Only whining I often hear is from people who have No Idea.

        “Then Maori start whining that the measures getting them back on track aren’t culturally correct.”
        I would be asking the harder questions like; Why are Maori off track?

        A brown version of Serco
        What a load of utter rubbish, ergo … CRAP
        Serco are a world wide service provider and I have yet to find a brown face in the Serco ring.

        • Corky

           /  May 13, 2017

          You seem upset. Quite understandable when liberal consensus is put to the test.

          ”Really!!!… Where When and How, has it been tried.
          The Only whining I often hear is from people who have No Idea’

          I was talking generally. For example two Maori focused schools in my area had Education Ministry administrators appointed after continued failures by board of trustees, principals and teacher to implement their duties effectively. Bullying was as usual a big problem. Also read up about TeAute, Hato Pāora and St Stephens College. All these were run using Maori Kaupapa.

          Jails already have Maori focused units.. So if you are a Maori who can’t read or write, no problem, just learn about your culture and how to swing the taiaha…there’s plenty of jobs needing those qualifications.

          Why are Maori off track? Well, lets see what Maoris who are on track do. Holy crap, they have priorities, they expend energy looking after their kids. They realise the importance of education. They push their kids to succeed….meanwhile at the pub, the sports field and the latest session house, other Maori have different priorities.

          ‘A brown version of Serco
          What a load of utter rubbish, ergo … CRAP”

          You’re on. Lets build that Maori prison.

          • Gezza

             /  May 13, 2017

            I want to know more about what it entails & where the inmates will be sent from.

            • Gezza

               /  May 13, 2017

              Gotta go. Catch yous later. Hugs n hongis.

            • Corky

               /  May 13, 2017

              Don’t ask me. I wouldn’t have a clue. And that’s the point, isn’t it. It sounds so grand in theory.

            • Gezza

               /  May 13, 2017

              Argh. The poor folk up at rest home are just sitting here watching the same series of George & Mildred episodes looping.

              I don’t know enough about what is proposed to just reject the idea out of hand, Corks. I take your point about some spectacular failures in supposedly Kaupapa-based educational institutions, but I dunno if there have been some successes too.

              The problem I have with coming to a considered view on something like this is it’s just an idea being floated. I don’t know how it would be decided which inmates should be sent there, for example. It already seems that Maori inmates get classified as such by the colour of their skin rather than whether they necessarily consider themselves to be culturally Maori or part of a hapu or iwi.

              How will different iwi have input into it. What environment will inmates be released back into? How long would you run an “experiment for”. These aren’t objections, just questions. I’d like more info on how this idea would work and how it be different from programs already being run or planned in in some prisons.

            • Corky

               /  May 13, 2017

              Gezza, you have hit the nail on the head. And it’s something that’ll pass over the heads of most well meaning Europeans and ignorant Maori.

              You cannot lump Maori together without acknowledging Iwi. And iwi means certain kawa ( protocols for any actions). It means nepotism. It means gang areas. It means utu for past hurts.

              A Maori run prison would also have to acknowledge elders and whanau.
              That would mean tangi leave. Whanau time. Marital sex time.

              Then there are disputes. That could see wardens and inmates squaring off. People will say I’m being silly. But that’s the Maori way. That’s how the Maori Battalion settled disputes between Officers and troops. Donna Awatere’s father ( an officer of fearsome repute) received a hiding in a similar fashion.

              Personally, I don’t care if such a prison is build. It’s just the problems and wasted taxpayer money down the line that pisses me off.

              If I’m proven wrong, I will say so, and shut my mouth. I have no problems
              if such an approach works.

            • Gezza

               /  May 14, 2017

              That’s really weird. There was an entire comment several paras long from me prior to Corky’s comment above, & that PZ & Possum’s comments below also address some issues/questions posed in it. Don’t think PG would’ve deleted it, nothing controversial. But it’s just disappeared. Very odd.

            • I found a comment from yesterday afternoon in the bin and have restored it. I don’t know how I got there, I certainly didn’t deliberately deleted it as I keep copies of all comments except for spam.

          • Good considered questions Gezza … ones that will have to be asked if the policy progresses …

            Corky, bullying is a problem at every school to a greater or lesser degree … mostly greater … This is in the very nature of ‘school’ as we know it …

            So why single out bullying as though it was a ‘Maori’ thing …?

            Some of the Maori you describe as being “on track” are actually being ‘Pakeha’ … which is fine if they’ve freely chosen to do so …

            They’re being what you and the dominant culture want them to be … Like our early politicians wanted them to be individual property owners …

            Plenty of Pakeha have “different priorities” too …

            A really hard question to ask is: Why don’t they end up in prison?

          • Pickled Possum

             /  May 13, 2017

            @Corky
            I am not upset, it takes more than some redneck yapping crapola to make me upset. I am learning expressive language at kura, 😉
            How do you think I’m doan so far Corkie

            Prisons who have Maori focused units have a greater success than those that don’t. Is that because there is a 50% Maori population?
            Whare Oranga Units were initially only open to Maori, and are now open to others.

            The question still remains the same to me, WHY do Maori have this high incarceration rate? Is it something in the water or the education. Or can it be that Maori just do not fit into the excepted way of the world,

            It certainly isn’t because the race is inherently bad,
            or is it just the brown colour that many object to,
            is it because the colour brown lacks excitement?
            is it because its the colour of poop? ie emotional response of disgust.
            Or is it because non Maori think of brown people as lowly vessels,
            Boy will they all get a huge shock when God comes down in her waka
            and she is fiercely black.

            If the American Indians can have their own law police etc why can’t we?
            Seems to work quite well for them. Then we would all be on the Res.
            Reservations for Maori? Is this what you want. Out of sight out of mind.
            Kind of like a Maori fema camp.
            Why do Non Maori like to think they have all the ethics and morals and any other race is wrong wrong wrong in their way of living and thinking.
            One law, one way ticket to hell.

            @Gezza The first thing that could happen IMO re; Maori inmates in a Maori prison, would be to house-prison them in their hapu iwi area.
            So it is not a day or two travel to visit and support incarcerated family.
            Especially those that are imprisoned for crime committed while having mental health issues.
            The stats say less recidivism if Maori are supported by family.
            In fact most people what ever race has less recidivism when supported by family.

            I would ask the hard questions like WHY??? are Maori so dissatisfied with their lot in life, I mean after all we have it all now don’t we thanks to the colonisers, Good education, jobs and warm cosy homes all as cheep as chips paid for by taxes paid in part by the hard manual labour work that is done by mostly Maori.
            Do we just pay up and shut up, just except our lot in life.

            This topic is an emotional issue for many people that see the unequal prison sentences for Maori and the wet bus ticket for non-Maori.

            Hope all is well at the home for the ones waiting for God,
            tell them she’s coming!

            • Gezza

               /  May 13, 2017

              Thanks Possum.

              (Betty won’t have any of that “God is a she” bizzo I’m afraid. That’s not what her bible says. Dad doesn’t care one way or the other, as long as God’s not Harry the Brickie because he’s a crook. I’m saying anything to Oskar, he hates me. Murray will want to argue about God’s gender too because he’s a Catholic. Nancy won’t come of her room because she’s exclusive bretheren, so God’s a bloke to her too. The other old girls just prefer not to discuss being near to God. I’ll just tell them you said kia ora.)

  8. The suggested location of a trial Maori Prison is in Ngawha, Northland. The heartland of Ngapuhi. If It goes ahead, then it will probably be staffed by Ngapuhi and the prisoners will also be Ngapuhi because of it being in Ngapuhi’s rohe. Given the Ngapuhi inability to manage a national occasion like Waitangi Day, and the internal divisions that we have observed do the Ngapuhi have the flexibility and desire to make the changes needed to make it work? Also, the crime problem in the North is due to drugs, gang violence, burglary , and domestic violence. Do we have the medical resources available to deal with the health problems inherent with that sort of behaviour, and sufficient jobs for employment after prison. It will be a huge undertaking, and I believe it will be doomed to failure but would be happy to see it work.

    • @ Beejay – “Given the Ngapuhi inability to manage a national occasion like Waitangi Day, and the internal divisions that we have observed …”

      IMHO, its quite disingenuous to say that Ngapuhi have been unable to manage the national occasion of Waitangi Day.

      They have chosen to manage an adjunct portion of the overall Waitangi Day celebrations – their own Te Tii marae component – in a way that upset the PM and some of the populace, simultaneously pumping mighty amounts of oxygen into the MSM’s fire …

      Anecdotal reports in all three Northland newspapers spoke of fabulous Waitangi Day celebrations at the Treaty grounds …

      And ultimately I’d rather observe the internal divisions than have them hidden from us, like I believe they are in so many, many aspects of our society … while people cry out for more “transparency” …

      We love divisions in the debating chamber of our Parliament … don’t we?

      • I dunno PZ. The last time I was up home, the nasty’s were still hard at work. Too many failures, not enough pride in being from the Far North. I will probably need to write a book about it.
        The Far North could be the ultimate Paradise if we could get our act together. We need competent accountants and auditors to ensure best use of the resources that exist there. New Zealand started life there!

        • Pride in place is dying along with sense of place, sense of belonging and sense of meaning Beejay IMHO … These things don’t have a dollar value … They’re not marketable … They’re not “units of production and consumption” … and they’re incompatible with a highly mobile, compliant workforce …

          There’s plenty of successes … We just tend to focus on the failures.

          Some of the failures are what? A failure to create new employment when the old forms of employment were taken away and destroyed by neoliberal ‘reform’, by re-regulation posing as deregulation? Failure to overcome hopelessness?

          And, partly as a consequence, some and perhaps many of the successes are in the community and volunteer sectors. They’re about keeping communities alive and thriving spiritually and materially, even ‘benefit-based’ communities. Strictly speaking they’re not business successes … accountants and auditors may not even detect this form of success!

          The main resource up here, like anywhere, is he tangata, he tangata, he tangata …

          I dunno about “Paradise” … “Call some place Paradise, kiss it goodbye” … but the Far North could certainly be prosperous, especially if as a national economy we weren’t hell-bent on exporting raw primary products and not adding value …

          Perhaps Aotearoa New Zealand will start its third life from the Far North too Beejay?

          Already Ngati Kahu’s Constitutional transformation initiative – Matike Mai Aotearoa – is leading the ‘future government’ direction, and gaining traction … and the Far North could be the home of extremely worthwhile and very valuable honey, hemp and cannabis growing and processing industries … along with timber processing, products and manufacturing … plus a unique, genuine-experience, sustainable tourism … not to mention farming and the potential of ‘organic’ …

          • I accept all you say PartisanZ, humbly. I recall seeing the flax leaves in sheaves drying in the sun outside of Awanui after being stripped of the green material and being prepared for export to the UK for the manufacture of linen. It employed a large number of Maori women who were adept at stripping the material using shells where they lacked blades. It was an ideal occupation and built communal spirit. It is all gone now. They say progress killed it. It would be ironic if hemp replaces it.

  9. Alan Wilkinson

     /  May 13, 2017

    There is already the opportunity to run a Maori private prison. But of course Labour want the taxpayer to fund it, run it and take all the risks instead.

    • What do you mean by “already an opportunity to run a Maori private prison” Alan?

      Are you saying a Maori organisation could compete on the open market with SecureFuture consortium to finance, design, build and operate a new correction facility? Or go up against Serco to ‘manage’ an existing one?

      These corporations’ stranglehold on the prison ‘market’ is assured, partly by the expense of the projects – $900 million to build Wiri – and partly by ‘governdustrial’ cronyism …

      The taxpayer funds it anyway, one way or another, and always pays to pick up the PPP PIECES if things go wrong …

      There it is Gezza … New word # 100 !!!! “Governdustrial” …

      • Gezza

         /  May 13, 2017

        Right on brother❗️💪😃 🍾

        Time to pop the champers❗️

  1. Time to try Maori prisons? – NZ Conservative Coalition