Open Forum – Tuesday

30 May 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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Previous Post


  1. Missy

     /  May 30, 2017

    Yesterday High Flying Duck posted an article from CNN about the intolerance of liberals. It reminded me of an opinion by a guy on the radio here who referred to the left as being no longer liberal, but rather the control left.

    Hopefully the video is not Geo blocked and you will be able to view it.

    “Talking on his LBC show he explained the rise of the ‘control left’ who have left the values of liberalism behind.

    “Today’s active, organised left is no longer liberal. A liberal will always prioritise free speech over offence.

    “This behaviour, censorship on the organised left, post factual behaviour, violence being seen as an option and prioritising group identity over individual rights. It isn’t liberal.”

    He said that this group has now become the ‘control left’ who want to infringe peoples civil liberties.

    “They want to control our lives, control what we think, control how we even feel.” “

    • Blazer

       /  May 30, 2017

      so many …glaring this submission…where to start?

      • Missy

         /  May 30, 2017

        Why not actually point out the glaring contradictions you believe he has made instead of just making an inane comment with no evidence to back up your opinion. Otherwise it is a pointless comment made for the sake of making a comment.

    • Thanks for that Missy.

      Left-wing politics had turned rancid in way one couldn’t have envisaged. However, having belonged on the left of politics for much of my life, I’ve never seen them politically as anything but authoritarian. With regard to those who prefer to call themselves liberals (rather than left), they’ve further infested their side with an even bigger dose of “we call the ideological shots here” disease.

      They appear to give love, understanding and, indeed, licence to every disparate, identity group within polite society. That is, with the exception of polite society itself. Heaven help you if you sit near the middle or you tend to conservatism in any of your POVs. As a centrist, or right winger you’ll find that you’re pretty well the only group that face their unbridled opprobrium. You’re labelled sexist,racist, xenophobic, islamaphobic and whateverphobic at every turn. It’s all slogans and 144 characters.

      It has become impossible for so-called liberals to even discuss a point or argue an idea without resorting to judgement on a person’s entire values system – based on what used to be just a difference in political opinion? They have the moral high ground in every situation.

      I’d actually argue the left have never, ever been liberal.

      • Blazer

         /  May 30, 2017

        ‘ having belonged on the left of politics for much of my life’… would you now call yourself…liberal’?Dismissing the morality of the left because you do not agree with their arguments and presenting a prejudicial ,generalised analysis of what you percieve to be their foundation is quite preposterous.Love you to define….’polite society’.

    • Why should he. Why would you assume Trump was responsible or that a HuffPost article “says it all about Trump”. This unhinged man blatantly hated Trump, all that he stood for and he hated Clinton. He was, in fact a Bernie, Jill Stein supporter. He openly mocked Trump on Social Media. But don’t let what looks like serious unhinged mental illness stop you blaming Trump

      Snapshots of his Facebook here for you.

      View story at

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  May 30, 2017

        Though that article labels it a “terrorist attack”, which it clearly isn’t, so …

        • So….why would anyone think Trump neede to rush to condemnation based on fake news

  2. Missy

     /  May 30, 2017

    Here is another interesting comment by Maajid Nawaz.

    Just some background, Maajid Nawaz is a Muslim who is the founding chairman of a counter extremism think thank that challenges the narratives around Islamic extremism. Maajid Nawaz is in a unique position to work as an activist against Islamism. In his early 20’s he was a member of Hizb-ut-Tahrir, an Islamist organisation that wants a global caliphate, (note that as far as I am aware this is a political organisation and has not links to ISIS or Al Qaida – though it does pre-date both of those by some decades). The organisation is not proscribed in the UK, and is classified as a radical but non-violent Islamist group. Maajid Nawaz was arrested in Egypt in 2001, released in 2006, and it was during this time and his contact with Amnesty International during this time that turned him away from the group. After his release he left the group, and has since worked as an activist against Islamic Extremism.

    One interesting thing he said after the Manchester bombing last week was that the Imam’s will lie, they will say what they think the public want to hear so they appear moderate, this was after some Imams and Mosques came out and denounced the attack in Manchester. One such Mosque was the Didsbury Mosque where the bomber went.

    “The Mosque of the Manchester Jihadist has spoken out against Isis and strongly condemned the attack – but Maajid Nawaz says there’s a very long way to go

    Leading figures from the Didsbury Mosque have spoken out against Isis, and condemned member Salman Ramadan Abedi – the 22-year-old responsible for the Manchester bombing.

    In a strongly worded statement, Didsbury mosque and Manchester Islamic Centre called the terrorist attack an act of cowardice, adding that it has worked peacefully at the heart of the community for more than 50 years.

    But Maajid Nawaz is not impressed.

    In this clip he explains how the Mosque will have to do a lot more to gain his respect, given their track record.

    Maajid said: “Not only did the Manchester Jihadist pray there, in Didsbury mosque, but it’s been associated with Al Qaeda linked groups, such as the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, LIFG.”

    The LBC Presenter went onto name some extremists who have been given a platform in the Mosque. One in particular even raised money for the LIFG.

    Maajid added: “So if this mosque has got people raising money for al Qaeda-linked groups in it, and yet they’re claiming ‘we’re moderate because we reported an ISIS fighter’, well as I say, if Al Qaida opposes ISIS, that’s no definition of moderate.”

    Maajid spoke of another who expressed extreme anti-semitic views, who was allowed to speak at the Mosque.

    Maajid quoted the hate speech: “Look at the way they massacre, they blow up babies as if it’s computer games, they have no humanity, no morality, no ethics, no religion, no guidance, no light, nothing” – this is a speaker that was hosted in this Mosque speaking about Jews.”

    The LBC Presenter added: “The spokesperson by the way, who is a trustee of the Mosque, claims that it’s a mosque for all the community, and this is what’s been going on inside this mosque?”

    Maajid also spoke about the anti-secular rhetoric also preached by some at the Mosque.

    He added: “Actually you know what the truth is, the biggest danger to our community at the moment is extremist preachers like this, using mosques that tolerate extremist preachers like this, that breed jihadist terrorists.

    “That’s the biggest danger to our community, not liberal secular Muslims. When was the last time you saw a liberal secular suicide bomber go into a mosque and seek revenge against theocracy by blowing himself up? But that’s what’s been going on.”

    Maajid continued: “If these are the views hosted in this mosque, and you go and report an ISIS bomber, and think I’m going to applaud you, think I’m going to congratulate you for being oh so moderate, when even al Qaeda oppose ISIS?

    “Surprise, surprise you happen to have the same sorts of speakers, with the same sorts of views that would sympathise with the same sorts of things that al Qaeda want to implement in their theocratic Caliphate.

    “So what you oppose ISIS, so what? That’s like saying “I oppose Stalin but I support the Nazis” or else “I oppose Hitler but I support Stalin gulags”.”

    Maajid went on: “You think we’re stupid, you think the nation isn’t going to realise? Well you know, my job is to make sure everybody understands what’s going on, because you’re after people like me.

    “You hosted a speaker in your mosque who says secular liberal Muslims are the most, are the biggest danger in the community, so of course I’m going to speak out against you.

    “And of course you know when I talk about how deep the rot has spread.”

    He finished off his epic polemic by saying: “Until we can separate, until we can separate these extremists from our community, and isolate them, don’t blame the rest of society for wondering whether every Muslim is an extremist, when our mosques are hosting the extremists themselves.””

    Note this Mosque also was brought up during the question time programme last week talking about the attack when a man said he had attended an open day at the Mosque and was handed a leaflet which was anti-west. A member of the Mosque said that the leaflet wasn’t official, without even looking at it. The man who had it tried to challenge on it, but was shut down, for many it was seen as the BBC trying to stick to their agenda. Later in the show a young Muslim girl spoke up and said it was time Muslims accepted and dealt with the fact that there is an issue within their communities and mosques of radicalisation and islamic extremism. Sadly there are too few Muslims in the UK that will accept and face up to the reality of the world.

  3. David

     /  May 30, 2017

    So the Herald thinks polling at 28% is fine for Labour and not in the area where they should be too worried and no need to roll Little, primarily it appears because media darling Ardern is not quite ready which is pretty damning. Little made it ok for supporters to vote for Winston first in Northland and then through the MOU its fine to vote Green meanwhile Labour becomes less relevant and are reduced to core support and all the while nothing on the policy front. Little,s only achievement seems to be being leader at the time that caucus were too tired of kicking each other and too despondent to care.

    • Sounds like a good synopsis, but it is still one where WRP can be Kingmaker for said Andrew

  4. Blazer

     /  May 30, 2017

    the opening of the Waterview tunnel has been delayed….because of problems with the software that will run the ..tunnel.Now that seems a very familiar….problem….aaah…computers.