Van versus people on London bridge

No indication yet whether this is an accident or deliberate.

Newstalk ZB: Reports of terror attack on London Bridge after vehicle mows down pedestrians, other people stabbed

UPDATE: Police have announced that six people have been killed and 20 injured in the attack.

British Transport Police say that one of its officers “was seriously injured as he responded” to the incident.

Police also said that three male suspects were shot dead.

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138 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  June 4, 2017

    Jesus, not another one. Being reported on Aljaz tv now. A van mounted the pavement and hit between 10 & 20 people. EMS all over the place. Details still unfolding. Reporter saw a number of people on the ground. Serious injuries A lot of blood, people trying to treat them. Police including armed police quickly on the scene, London Bridge shut down. Nothing known about what’s happened to the driver yet. Situation still very confused. A white van caused the carnage. Some witnesses saying people appeared to have stab wounds, but could be just confused. Cordons in place.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 4, 2017

      Incident site is only 100 metres from Aljaz tv London HQ. Looks like a Moving Van. Police were screaming at people to get out of the area.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        Saturday night. Hugely busy. Young people everywhere people streamed out of the bars & clubs, some to try & help the victims, many others confused about what’s happened, what to do, which way to go …

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          Aljaz: Police searching for 3 individuals who may or may not be armed, reports of their having a knife or knives.

          Police also dealing with a reported second incident at Borough Market.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 4, 2017

            Reports a third incident is developing now in Vauxhall, South of Aljaz London HQ. Some say attackers got out of the van, entered a restaurant & started stabbing people – this is when shots were fired by the police. Situation reports are still confused, however, no confirmation.

            Reply
          • Missy

             /  June 4, 2017

            Borough Market is across the road from London Bridge Station, and in that vicinity, very close.

            Reply
        • Missy

           /  June 4, 2017

          Apparently police were yelling at them to run south, so confusion may have come from either not hearing or not knowing which way was south. Shock and fear will have played a big part I imagine.

          Reply
  2. artcroft

     /  June 4, 2017

    There will be help to pay over this. Soon basic freedoms are going to be given up in order to deliver safety to the public.

    Reply
    • David

       /  June 4, 2017

      What safety will be delivered for the loss of these freedoms exactly?

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  June 4, 2017

      The immediate impact might be on the election results. I don’t see the Brits making radical changes to basic freedoms. They’ve endured all this before and their spies already have free range on personal information and communications. They will get tighter on immigration and vetting refugees though – which will probably lose votes for Labour and Lib Dems.

      Reply
      • David

         /  June 4, 2017

        Not sure it will swing that way. I suspect they will simply be looking to punish the Tories for there lack of spine, not Labour. May has never delivered on immigration and refugrees, and doesn’t look like she has any intention of doing so.

        As perverse as it seems, this could get Labour elected.

        Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  June 4, 2017

        They need to do more than getting tough on immigration AL. Hopefully this is the start of a tipping point where the poms stop reacting and take the fight to these mongrols. Sharia loving May is looking increasingly like a modern chamberlain. She has to go. There will be a churchill waiting in the wings who will step up and front foot this. He will begin by going after the 23,000 known jihadis in the UK. Citizenship will be revoked and they will be deported. Immigration from Islamic countries will be stopped. Mosques preaching radicalism will be shaken down and closed. Sharia will be outlawed. It seems extreme but I believe it is only a matter of time before reactive becomes proactive

        Reply
      • John Schmidt

         /  June 4, 2017

        Incorrect statement that the intelligence agencies have free reign to personal data and comms, legislation specifically prevents this which has been the case since forever, a warrant is required.
        Google, Facebook, Countdown, New World, all the banks and other corporate entities know more about you than any goverment entity.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 4, 2017

        I don’t doubt that is the official position, John, nor that reality is effectively different. There will be enormous data scanning, filtering and collating going on as we “speak”.

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 4, 2017

      I can’t see it arty. The Brits have fought for their freedoms & liberties over centuries. They won’t give them up. They’ll just toughen up, co-operate, bear it, & carry on.

      Reply
      • Brown

         /  June 4, 2017

        Nope. The govt was with the people in wars in days gone by but not this time. If you don’t like Islamic terrorism and pandering to Muslims (just part and parcel of big city life nowadays says the Muslim mayor) you are treated as the enemy. England is lost until the govt admits what the problem is and leads a fight back. Personally I think England is lost.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          Getting the deleted out of Afghanistan & the Middle East might help. Being associated with the ongoing US drone attacks & collaterall innocent deaths is making things worse. I hope you’re wrong about The UK being lost, Brown, but I must admit I can’t see the Brits being able to expel all Muslims. They sure need to find & expel or lock up the extremists & hate preachers though, & stop pandering to religio-cultural differences. The sooner their kids can wise up & shift to atheism the better.

          Reply
          • Margaret Thatcher after 9/11: ”

            We have harboured those who hated us, tolerated those who threatened us and indulged those who weakened us.”

            Reply
  3. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    I have been out tonight, and just got in.

    Not good at all.

    The Telegraph are reporting it as a series of coordinated Terrorist attacks, at least 2 dead and dozens injured.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/london-bridge-incident-armed-police-respond-several-people-mown/

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 4, 2017

      Really glad you are safe Missy. The odds might’ve been small but I was worried about you.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  June 4, 2017

        Thanks G, and odds may not have been that small, I live a bit out of central London, but I do sometimes go in there and around that area, just not tonight.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          😬 Eek. Stay safe & take care pls ma’am.

          Reply
          • Missy

             /  June 4, 2017

            I will do my best, I have had the safety briefings from work, and I have read – and listened to – all the advice from the Police.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              Check in here as soon as poss if anything else goes down over there eh? I won’t be the only one wanting to know you’re ok.

            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              Aljaz is still doing live full-time coverage & updates. Their London Editor came through the van scene on her way in to work & reported what she saw directly.

            • Missy

               /  June 4, 2017

              Awww G, will do.

  4. Tipene

     /  June 4, 2017

    It’s official: the only way the UK authorities can now protect their citizens from terrorism is by telling them to “run, hide and tell”, and this after these same authorities first opened their borders for both home-grown and imported terrorism to now flourish.

    The UK is now in “Broken Arrow” territory.

    UK Author and philosopher Theodore Dalrymple thought he could escape this carnage he (rightly) predicted was coming, by moving to France – until it happened there as well.

    It’s over for the UK as a safe and functioning civil society – I only hope us in the antipodes can learn form their experience.

    We won’t, of course…………..

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  June 4, 2017

      “…the only way the UK authorities can now protect their citizens from terrorism is by telling them to “run, hide and tell”,…”

      Run, Hide, Tell has been the standard advice to civilians for terrorist attacks for a while now, this is nothing new, and I think you are scaremongering with saying it is ‘the only way the UK authorities can now protect their citizens from terrorism’.

      Since the Manchester Bombing three attacks have been foiled in the UK, in the last 2 months over 30 attacks have been stopped. The UK are not failing at protecting their citizens. What do you expect them to do when they are using cars and kitchen/hunting knives.

      Reply
      • David

         /  June 4, 2017

        “The UK are not failing at protecting their citizens.”

        They are. This is not a problem that has landed out of the blue, it’s been allowed to fester for several decades while the state has failed to address it. They are afraid to even name the problem and do everything to turn a blind eye.

        The simple fact there has been 30 attack (in just 2 months!) to be stopped is a damning indictment of this failure.

        Reply
        • Missy

           /  June 4, 2017

          In what way is it a failure that they have stopped attacks from happening? Stopped attacks mean that citizens are being kept safe.

          I said stopped, it should have been foiled (it is late and I am tired), all the potential attacks were at different stages of planning.

          This is a failure in integration, and social policies, and a failure of communities to engage, but I would not put the blame solely on the UK Government. No Government can keep its citizens 100% safe, and anyone who thinks they can is naive, stupid, or ignorant.

          Reply
          • David

             /  June 4, 2017

            “In what way is it a failure that they have stopped attacks from happening? Stopped attacks mean that citizens are being kept safe.”

            The failure is having a large population who are wanting to carry out the attacks in the first place. 23,000 potential terrorists who have been allowed to live in the UK is the failure of the state on an epic scale.

            “No Government can keep its citizens 100% safe, and anyone who thinks they can is naive, stupid, or ignorant.”

            Correct, but the Government has been very significantly complicit in creating the problem to begin with.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 4, 2017

              Damned if they do, damned if they don’t…

              Thst logic is like saying that car alarms are failures because they havent stopped people wanting to steal cars, they have just stopped the cars being stolen !

            • David

               /  June 4, 2017

              “Thst logic is like saying that car alarms are failures because they havent stopped people wanting to steal cars, they have just stopped the cars being stolen !”

              No it’s not. It’s simply saying there was a time when the car alarm was not needed, and the need for a car alarm is the result of government policy.

          • Kashmiri Pakistanis don’t want to integrate, Somalis don’t want to integrate, Egyptians, Syrians, Libyans etc don’t want to integrate [well the non Christian ones at least]…..and for that matter many Indian migrants don’t want to integrate as far as religion and culture go [to a certain extent] whether Hindu or Sikh etc in religion or South Americans or Africans for that matter [well the Christian and traditional religions following ones.

            But only ONE religion is causing a problem. Just one – Islam.

            This problem has brewed for quite some time and the authorities have preached tolerance and multiculturalism…. and ignore some nasty hate preaching and the sexual crimes in places like Rotherham.

            get out of the Middle East then anyone who pushes this Islamic intolerance bs should be rounded up and locked away from everyone else – outer hebredies seems an appropriate place for them

            Reply
  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 4, 2017

    Trumpy is firing tweets at the evil doers. Drones to follow.

    Reply
    • David

       /  June 4, 2017

      Drones over Tower Hamlets and Bradford? Trump might need some drones with bigger payloads….

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        This may cause considerable reaction against Muslims. Which is what these bastards want.

        Reply
        • David

           /  June 4, 2017

          “Which is what these bastards want.”

          I do not believe this. They do not believe there will be a significant reaction, they just want to kill infidels. Every other incident has simply been meet with a blook with a piano playing ‘Imagine’ and the usual soundbites about protecting the Muslims from right-wing reactionaries. Oh, and a new hashtag. Never forget the power of a new hashtag.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 4, 2017

            I think they want both David. The more hate & suspicion the locals get, the more disturbed & angry loser recruits they might pick up. This bloody religion just doesn’t fit with the West.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              But Western countries being involved in rocketing & bombing Muslims in Muslim countries stokes the fire as well.

            • David

               /  June 4, 2017

              ” This bloody religion just doesn’t fit with the West.”

              Yes, this. Until this is understood and accepted, there is a lot more blood ahead. Actually, I think it’s too late, there will be blood regardless now.

        • David

           /  June 4, 2017

          How about this one…..

          #wakeupandsmellthecofveve

          Reply
  6. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    This makes sense, Vauxhall is quite a distance from London Bridge.

    Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 4, 2017

    I still think the Brits should open an official suicide facility for fxckwitted homicidal religious lunatics.

    Reply
  8. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    Being a Saturday night transport and getting revellers home is an issue when one of the biggest and busiest stations is closed.

    People were told to head south, the stations across the river from London Bridge were also closed. At least one station has opened for exit only, London Bridge now has trains running through the station, but not stopping.

    The buses were accepting train tickets, and extra buses were put on to cover for trains that were unable to run.

    Apparently black taxis were once again helping people free of charge – they did the same during the Westminster attack. However, once again Uber surged their prices to take advantage of people who were traumatised and confused – assholes. Up to 10x normal price.

    Reports are coming out that the knifeman shouted ‘this is for allah’.

    This attack goes along with what ISIS said a few weeks ago about stepping up attacks during Ramadan (which I guess is why it was a night attack).

    Right, I am off to bed, very late and I am pretty tired. I don’t think much more will become known before the morning.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 4, 2017

      Aljaz has handed over from The Shard to Doha. Reports that two have been arrested. Live coverage continuing with on-scene reporters.
      12.32 pm

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        People being evacuated out of the incident areas were being required by armed Police to put their hands above their heads. No exceptions. A woman who dropped her arms was shouted at by Police to put them back up again.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          Mayor Sadiq Khan is describing this as a cowardly attack.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 4, 2017

            Aljaz reports A COBRA meeting will be happening within 2-3 hours.
            Police say Vauxhall incident is not linked to London Bridge & Borough Market incident.
            Theresa May says there is a fast-moving investigation underway.
            1.03 pm

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              Aljaz: 2 witnesses, foreigners, intelligible accents tho, working in Borough Market, shaking their heads, shocked still – 3 men right in front of them, stabbed 3 people, just came out of nowhere, just started repeatedly pushing knives into them – showed the stabbing motions. Didn’t say where attackers went, assume they just then moved on.

        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  June 4, 2017

      Uber will need the extra money to tide them over the boycott which I hope will come-this has to be the stupidest business move of all time. Serve them right if they go bust. They deserve to.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  June 4, 2017

      Uber have ONCE AGAIN done this ??? How can they live with themselves ?

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  June 4, 2017

        Yep, again. They exploited the Westminster attack as well, and have exploited other tragedies / disasters to make money.

        Reply
  9. MaureenW

     /  June 4, 2017

    There’s a big opportunity for Theresa May here, does she have the balls? Or, will it be group hugs, singing and lighting up some buildings?

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  June 4, 2017

      Er, women don’t have balls.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        Then it’s does she have the gonads.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  June 4, 2017

          To say that a woman has balls and mean it as a compliment is really sexist.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 4, 2017

            1. I didn’t say it.
            2. Maureen has corrected herself.
            3. Does it really matter in this situation?

            Reply
            • Missy

               /  June 5, 2017

              G, to answer number 3, probably not as Theresa May herself has used that word to describe herself, I guess she sees it as a compliment!!

          • Missy

             /  June 4, 2017

            I will let Theresa May know she is sexist….

            Quote from Theresa May: “I had the balls to call an election”

            Reply
      • MaureenW

         /  June 4, 2017

        Fortitude … happy?

        Reply
  10. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 4, 2017

    Daily Mail reporting 5 attackers, 7 killed, 20 hospitalised.

    Reply
  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 4, 2017

    Telegraph report police still looking for one suspect. (3 am)

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 4, 2017

      Aljaz commenter says at COBRA meeting May will want answers to how this attack could have happened, given that police & security agents have foiled dozens of attacks. Points have been made UK Police simply doesn’t have the resources to monitor all the thousands of potential suspects 24/7, and the difficulty of stopping sttacks for which the attackers have simply weaponised ordinary vehicles & kitchen knives.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        London Police spokesman. Very brief. Currently think there were 3 attackers. All three have been shot dead. 6 other people died. Other details still being assessed.
        2.53pm

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          Off to brief Dad’s Rest Home. Those whose memories still work & the staff from Britain will no doubt be horrified. Ciao for now.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          PS: I think police spokesperson also said the cannisters appear to be hoaxes, they were not bombs.

          Reply
  12. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    Update:

    * Six Dead (not including the terrorists), 48 injured
    * Three Terrorists dead

    * The terrorists were wearing fake suicide vests

    * Conservatives have suspended campaigning for today, will review later today
    * At this stage the Election will still go ahead on Thursday

    * A taxi driver has said how he tried to run over the terrorists when he saw them stabbing people.

    * Another guy said he tried to stop one of them stabbing a young woman, but he was defenceless, he was throwing bottles, glasses, chairs etc at him, but then the guy turned on him. While he is being described as a hero, his actions go against all advice on what to do in a terrorist attack.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 4, 2017

      Yeah, well he still gets my vote for hero.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  June 4, 2017

        Mine too if I am honest. He tried to do something, I would probably have just panicked.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        1Ewes said tv1 is televising The One Love Manchester concert tomorrow morning Missy. The Manchester Police Chief was shown assuring people appropriate security will be in place & saying there will be plenty of police on the streets to ensure people’s safety.

        Reply
        • Missy

           /  June 4, 2017

          Yeah, it is being televised here as well. Britain’s Got Talent moved their final show to last night in order not to clash with the concert tonight and take away from it.

          I hope that the appropriate security means they will leave the searches etc in place until everyone has left, that was the weak spot in the security, and how he got in with the bomb.

          Reply
    • Missy

       /  June 4, 2017

      Reports are saying that amongst those that responded was the ‘Blue Thunder’ unit. This is the first time that the unit have been deployed.

      Blue Thunder is the SAS unit under the command of the Counter Terrorism police, it was set up in 2015 to respond to terrorist attacks. It is named Blue Thunder due to the plain blue helicopter they use.

      I have seen them around now and again doing exercises, but this is the first deployment.

      Also, it was 8 minutes from the first 999 call until the terrorists were killed, good response from the Met Police. And remember the police went in to stop these guys not knowing their suicide vests were fake.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 4, 2017

        Yes, Missy, well done police. I would guess the fake suicide bomb vests were a factor in the cops immediately shooting to kill.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 4, 2017

          With what these bastards were doing Alan I would think & hope there’d be no need for the police to even think about shooting to kill – that it was a given.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 4, 2017

            On 1Ewes, A young chap who witnessed it mimicked what he said happened with both policemen – he dropped to one knee, aimed, & sounded out two short bursts of automatic rifle fire.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  June 4, 2017

            Any info on where the third one was killed?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              Can’t find anything yet. Scotland Yard Police Spokeswoman giving live press briefing now on Aljaz tv …

            • Missy

               /  June 4, 2017

              Not that I have seen yet, though I have heard unconfirmed reports that it was down near Vauxhall – but I suspect that is to do with the unrelated stabbing.

              Things are a little confused due to the unrelated attack close by at the same time.

            • Missy

               /  June 4, 2017

              G, that isn’t a spokeswoman, that is the Commissioner of the Met Police, Cressida Dick.

            • Missy

               /  June 4, 2017

              A picture from social media printed in The Sun appears to show the third terrorist on the ground outside the same pub the other two were killed outside of.

              There was an unsubstantiated report in the Sun (picked up by the DM) that a bystander was shot in the head by police in a pub, but no-one else has picked this story so I am wondering if the ‘bystander’ was in fact the third terrorist, and the eyewitness report was from someone who had been drinking (as you do on a Sat night) and had perception of his location skewed with the dark, confusing, and terrifying situation.

            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              The way it’s being reported in msm & on Aljaz it’s sounding like that Missy, that all three were shot around the same time in the same location.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  June 4, 2017

            Not necessarily if they only had knives, G. Could easily have been given the order to drop them first.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              Waste of breath, time, & ongoing risk with suicide attackers.

            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              Thinking sbout it Alan, I can’t recall exactly what that chap who witnessed the shootings said – he might have said they shouted at them to stop or something first … I’d have to see it again. If they did, they didn’t give them long is my impression from his description of events.

            • Missy

               /  June 4, 2017

              If the police thought they were wearing suicide vests then I am not sure they would want to take the risk that the terrorists would detonate a bomb.

        • Missy

           /  June 4, 2017

          I would say so.

          The Police Commissioner is speaking now, 7 have been confirmed dead (not including the terrorists).

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 4, 2017

            that might be who I’m watching Missy – a woman?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              “Cressida Dick
              London Metropolitan Police”

              Showing on screen. Taking a few questions now…

            • Gezza

               /  June 4, 2017

              can’t say at the moment whether they have given any information to their US colleagues, but her working assumption is that they will be providing them with appropriate information.

            • Missy

               /  June 4, 2017

              Yep, sorry, I didn’t refresh before putting my comment above, so missed this one from you. 🙂

            • Missy

               /  June 4, 2017

              They might be a bit more circumspect about what they give the US after Manchester! Stand by and see if NBC starts releasing information on it prior to the Met.

    • Missy

       /  June 4, 2017

      Labour have announced they will suspend campaigning until tonight.

      Reply
    • Missy

       /  June 4, 2017

      Among the injured is a British Transport Police Officer, his injuries are described as serious (but I don’t think life threatening).

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        Sadiq Khan shown on Aljaz again condemning the attack – “they have no respect for life or faith”. You know, if the Mayoral Election was being held now, I wonder if he would be elected? I remember him being interviewed the day after his election on Aljaz tv, & asked about his religion. He said he could speak for what he understood Islam to mean, but not for his parents or any other Muslim.

        Reply
        • Missy

           /  June 4, 2017

          I think he probably still would have been elected, not because people like him, but because the Conservative voters would have stayed away – they aren’t exactly fans of Zac Goldsmith, and that is what is thought to have lost him (Goldsmith) the election. Khan appeals to the Urban liberal elite in London, showing how diverse and anti racism they are.

          He is pretty useless as a mayor, but I am not sure Goldsmith would have been any better.

          Reply
  13. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    Pete, I think you should change the title, it diminishes the attack by making it sound like an accident, it was a terrorist attack.

    Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  June 4, 2017

      Agreed Missy. Is it any different from a headline that reads ‘gun vs people’. As if an object can suddenly take on a life of its own and go on a killing spree. Ban those killer vans, that outta do it

      Reply
    • Missy

       /  June 5, 2017

      Pete, I see you still have the title as ‘van versus people…’ It wasn’t a van vs people situation, it was a terrorist attack by three individuals who don’t like the way that we live in the west, or our values, and decided to kill as many people as possible.

      I really think the title of this post should be changed to reflect the actuality of the event.

      Reply
      • That was all that was known when I started the post, it was breaking news.

        I prefer not to substantially change headlines later, as people looking for a post look for the headline they know. I’m going to do a new post this morning.

        Reply
  14. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    Tweet with a screenshot of a part of an article in the Times yesterday.

    I will try to see if another media outlet picked this up and put it up not behind a paywall.

    Reply
  15. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    Article in the Telegraph

    “How Islamic State called for ‘all-out war’ on West during Ramadan”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/islamic-state-calls-all-out-war-west-start-ramadan-manchester/

    Reply
  16. Patzcuaro

     /  June 4, 2017

    Just for a bit of context over 25000 people are killed annually in car accidents in the European Union.

    https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/sites/roadsafety/files/pdf/observatory/trends_figures.pdf

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  June 4, 2017

      1700 in the UK, but a lot are self-inflicted. A lot of people die from diseases too. Is it really relevant?

      Reply
    • What context is that then? please explain…

      Reply
    • Missy

       /  June 4, 2017

      WTF does this have to do with a coordinated terrorist attack?

      This is the sort of thing apologists for Islamic Terrorism say to deflect away from what is happening.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 4, 2017

        Yes, it’s a useless point to make. If people are being killed in any other sorts of circumstances, how the hell does that in any way justify the apparent suggestion an extra “few” killed by terrorists isn’t that big an issue?

        Reply
  17. Missy

     /  June 4, 2017

    Amongst the tragedy and fear one man is providing some light relief on social media – quite unintentionally I imagine.

    This image is circulating on social media showing people running from the scene, and one guy not only took his (almost full) pint with him, he managed to not spill a drop!

    https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/pri_42167446.jpg?w=748&h=498&crop=1

    Reply
  18. Patzcuaro

     /  June 4, 2017

    Life goes on, we don’t stop driving because we might die in a car accident.

    Most people killed in Europe by terrorist have even killed by Europeans, IRA,ETA etc.

    We hardly bat an eyelid at the number of people dying daily in the Middle East and Africa from starvation, war and terrorism.

    Is a life with more in Europe than the Middle East?

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  June 4, 2017

      Obviously yes. Why? Because Europe has much better values and less belief in destructive myths.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 4, 2017

      No, Patz. a life is worth just as much in the Middle East, or Afghanistan, or Pakistan, as in Europe. There are scenes being shown all the time on Aljaz of the horrors of bombings & suicide attacks in these countries – today, the explosions from the 3 suicide bombers in Afghanistan yesterday, & with the hundreds of people running away in panic from the funeral they were attending when these arseholes blew up in their midst. This freaking religion Islam is how these killers are able convince themselves they are morally justified in sending themselves to fecking Paradise in the process of murdering infidels or apostates, for even political reasons. This attack is not even ISIS. Until the followers of Islam quit that shitty, tortured faith, they should be kept away from us non-believers.

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  June 5, 2017

        I agree that there are major issues with the way Islam is practiced. I haven”t read the Bible or the Quran but both were written over a thousand years ago for people who were less enlighten than we are.

        My analogy comparing the number of people killed by car accidents & and terrorist attacks was designed to point out how few people are affected. Also young men are disproportionately involved in both. Population pressure, poverty and underemployment are all factors exacerbating the collision of Western culture and Islam.

        Reply
        • Brown

           /  June 5, 2017

          If you haven’t read either your opinions about either and the respective followers are worthless because they are ill informed. When a Muslim follows the Koran’s god given instructions to kill me because I’m a non-believer I take it personally and get a bit snarky when someone says I’m more likely to be killed by choking on an ice cube while riding an elephant on a Thursday and drinking a G&T. Accidents I can accept, a Muslim setting out to stab me to death after running me over didn’t quite do it – not so much.

          To clarify the Christian / Islam distinction here is the fundamental difference. Christianity and is apolitical looks to the spiritual next world when this one finally goes tits up while Islam looks to absolute (and it means absolute) political control in this one. Islam has no scruples about how it reaches its goals as violence is acceptable and even encouraged.

          Here endeth the lesson.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 5, 2017

            Yep.

            Reply
          • Patzcuaro

             /  June 5, 2017

            Who has time to read either. When you say that Christianity is apolitical I disagree Catholicism in Catholic countries has always been at the heart of the establishment. Protestantism was a response to this, a protest against the inflexibility of Catholicism, more for the individual that the state.

            All through out Latin America the Church has gone hand and hand with establishment, supporting those in power and suppressing the masses to defend they position, power and assets. Is Christianity closer to Capitalism or Socialism?

            I would say that the current Pope is closer to Liberation Theology than the traditional hierarchy, maybe a response to the conservatism of the last Pope.

            Christianity had a 500 year head start on Islam, what were Christians up to 500 years ago, we had the Spanish Inquisition etc.

            None of which solves the current clash of cultures between Islam and the post Christian West. Hopefully it won’t take 500 years for Islam to catch up.

            Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 5, 2017

        A life like anything else is worth only what someone will pay for it. In Patz’s countries that is mostly bugger all.

        Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  June 5, 2017

          The more money you have the more lives you can buy, can’t see that in the bible. More like do unto others as you would have done unto you.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  June 5, 2017

            Then why do you try to talk about the value of lives when you don’t actually want to value them?

            It would actually be instructive to examine why life is worth less in the Middle East. The answers would be both economic and cultural.

            Reply
  19. Missy

     /  June 5, 2017

    In the absence of the world watch post (which I was going to post this in), here is an update from today on last nights terrorist attack.

    * 12 people have been arrested in Barking, East London (Essex), this morning. Some of the residents at the apartment block where the raid took place claim that one of the terrorists lived in the block. Four women are believed to be amongst those arrested.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/exclusive-video-police-arrest-12-people-barking-connection-terror/

    * A second address in Barking has also been raided.

    * The first on duty police officer on the scene was from the British Transport Police, their job is primarily to deal with crime on public transport – railway mainly, they are not armed. The officer only had his baton, he confronted all three terrorists alone with his baton, he has been in the job for less than 2 years. He is seriously injured, but stable. He also managed to provide a statement last night despite his injuries, (the police referred to it as giving his account of events). *I say on duty as it is unclear if he was the first, or if an off duty was first, but he was the first on duty officer.

    * An off duty police officer who was one of the first on scene was stabbed as he rugby tackled one of the terrorists. He is in critical condition after sustaining knife wounds.

    I know many will say that these two men were doing their job, but lets think about this for a moment.

    One, on duty – so yes it can be argued he was doing his job, but he ran in & took on three men with hunting knives (possibly machetes) who were also wearing what he would have believed was a suicide bomb vest, and he had a baton. Many of us would not do that.

    The second, was off duty & essentially a member of the public, no weapons of any sort – not even a baton, ran towards a man with a hunting knife, and probably suicide bomb vest, and rugby tackled him.

    It is hard to know exact numbers, but between these two – and the other police, a lot of lives would have been saved.

    I remember being told once that bravery is ‘being scared, but still doing what you need to because you know and believe it is the right thing to do.’ On that definition the first responders last night are all incredibly brave people. I know I wouldn’t be able to do it.

    * The police have confirmed this afternoon that a member of the public was shot and injured in the crossfire – this confirms the previous reports in the DM and the Sun. The Police apparently fired unprecedented number of rounds to stop the terrorists.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/london-attack-six-dead-van-rampage-stabbings-terrorists-killed/

    * A spat has broken out between Donald Trump, the Mayor of London, and other politicians over tweets sent by Donald Trump. Sadie Khan’s statement this morning said that the Terrorists would not win, and that Londoners would see an increased police presence and not to be alarmed by it. Trump responded by saying ‘At least 7 dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and Mayor of London says there is “no reason to be alarmed!”‘. Trump got the message from Khan wrong – he was saying not to be alarmed at the extra police presence, some of which would be armed.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/donald-trump-lashes-sadiq-khan-london-terror-attacks/

    * Also, apparently it has been suggested that Trump might make a visit to London this week to show solidarity with the UK. Reportedly Fox News are saying it is the right thing to do and he can walk defiantly across London Bridge. Not sure that will work, the last time someone walked defiantly across a bridge was Phillip Schofield after the Westminster attack & he was mercilessly ridiculed for it. Also, with the election having Trump in country would be a massive distraction, and not what the country either needs – or would want.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  June 5, 2017

      Added to above.

      * The death toll remains at 7.
      * 1 Canadian is confirmed among the dead.
      * 1 Australian and 1 New Zealander are being reported as being among the injured.
      * 1 Australian is unaccounted for at the moment.
      * 21 people are in critical condition

      Reply
    • Missy

       /  June 5, 2017

      The bystander shot in the head is apparently expected to make a full recovery – and is absolutely not dying (in the words of the doctor).

      Reply

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