Open Forum – Saturday

10 June 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

38 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  June 10, 2017

    Just heard it Kitty, & thought of you. And your birdbath-ice-skating birds.

    5.54am. Went outside into a still-barely perceptible dawn, dark, with grey skies, and an irritating, constant norwesterly – again 😡 – frowned about it, and then, from somewhere in the wind, it came. The first birdsong of the day. Dunno what bird it was. But it whistled, Kitty. Beautifully. Such an entrancing little lilt. I was spellbound.

    That bird sounded so happy, just to be alive. So I decided to be as well, and smiled away the frown. 🐥

    • Gezza

       /  June 10, 2017

      OMG. That bird worked some magic. Or maybe my smile did. The skies have cleared. The air is still. And it’s going to be a beautiful sunrise in the next few minutes.

      • Anonymous Coward

         /  June 10, 2017

        Looks like you might get a moonset too if the horizon is clear

        • Gezza

           /  June 11, 2017

          No moonset. 😭 Clouded over mid afternoon. 😠 God I hate North Welly’s weather these days. Could put up with the *zephyrs* but all we seem to have had for the last 12 months is mostly grey-sky norwesterlies. I blame Climate change. 😡

  2. Gezza

     /  June 10, 2017

    Ma just rang. Pensioner. Just got her latest bill from Dad’s Rest Home. Gone up by $364a month! Just as well I haven’t got me shotgun. I ‘d be thinking about heading in to the Beehive on Monday to talk it over with Mr Joyce.

    • Blazer

       /  June 10, 2017

      all part of the…’brighter…future’.

      • Gezza

         /  June 10, 2017

        Thought I’d hear from you pretty quickly. Don’t suppose you’ve got a spare shotgun ? 😳

        Not sure what the reason is yet, just an annual increase, or the expected clawback from the vulnerable elderly spouses of dementia patients to pay the new care-worker rates. Will drop in to ma’s & check the relevant docs tonite on the way back from Dad’s Rest Home. She needs a new smoke alarm battery fitted anyway.

        • PDB

           /  June 10, 2017

          Likely due to wage increases for the carers about to kick in……….Blazer is obviously against that happening. Cause and effect.

          • Blazer

             /  June 10, 2017

            are they getting that 25c an hour…raise…PDB?

            • PDB

               /  June 10, 2017

              Stuff: “The deal will see more than 55,000 workers receive a minimum pay rise of $4 an hour, going up by as much as $7 an hour in some cases”.

          • Gezza

             /  June 10, 2017

            Yeah, but I think there are annual increases anyway Pants. The care-worker pay increases are being taken out of the spouse’s pockets on top of that this time, I expect. Her Super won’t gave gone up by that amount. I’d be happier if they took it off Sir Alan. Will send Joyce an email. 👍

            This government. They’ll have to go, Pants 😡. Who else have we got? 😳

            • Gezza

               /  June 10, 2017

              Yes, from the letter with bill, most of the increase is the steal from Ma to pay a little bit more towards what Careworkers are nearly actually really worth. We don’t know how much of an annual increase there usually is, probably the Super rises & then they steal it back from the poor elderly spouses with partners in care homes.

  3. Blazer

     /  June 10, 2017

    so the carers can thank the patients for their pay rise.All passed on by the resthomes,to preserve their profit margins.

    • Gezza

       /  June 10, 2017

      Pretty much, yes, I think. I don’t know if it was any better under Labour, but I’m pretty surprised how little the Super payments are. They don’t get much more than me & my income was only around 25.5 k last year.

  4. Blazer

     /  June 10, 2017

    90% of the population are always better off under…Labour…that’s the reality.

    • Gezza

       /  June 10, 2017

      Maybe you’re right.
      1. Have you got a link to anything that proves that?, and
      2. Which Labour administrations are you basing that on?, and
      3. Is that necessarily true? Do they all always have the same policies & economic philosophies ?

      • Gezza

         /  June 10, 2017

        🌸

        • Blazer

           /  June 11, 2017

          also always bear in mind..the structure of capitalist society,which is predicated on never ending ‘growth’….consumerism and… materialism.

      • Blazer

         /  June 11, 2017

        the truth is self evident.A perusal of legislation that made a real difference to ordinary people will illuminate it.National only attempt to ‘humour’ ordinary people.All profits come from labour,that is why the Chinese economy became a powerhouse=cheap and plentiful …labour.

        • Gezza

           /  June 11, 2017

          Do they? Fair enuff. I think that’s true.

          Are inventions, products, businesses to manufacture them, businesses to trade them, people to create those businesses & run them, advertise their availability & services, pay the staff, & tax etc – are they involved as part of the labour?

          • Blazer

             /  June 11, 2017

            in Capitalism,capital is required.Where does capital come from?You will find your…answer…grasshopper.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              Not what I asked.

            • Blazer

               /  June 11, 2017

              @G..you’re a smart guy…you can join the dots…all the things you…need..are a product of…labour.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              Good. So, those who do the jobs other than just manufacture products (including growing) food, or providing services then, to enable us to live in a modern, interconnected, technological society – why should they bother? What should be their motivation, do you think? Risk & return – making money? Or something else?

            • Blazer

               /  June 11, 2017

              @G a better world…is motivation.You still need to address the primary question…where does the money/capital come from?

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              Mostly banks. But that’s not my primary question Blazer.

          • Blazer

             /  June 11, 2017

            see …post…above.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              Which one? This is a reply to my posted comment asking if people creating businesses are included in your definition of labour. If you want to dick around posting cryptic tweets as usual instead of having an adult conversation for a change that’s ok. I can leave it here if you like?

            • Blazer

               /  June 11, 2017

              with no productivity from labour there would be no service jobs…the bigger picture….’also always bear in mind..the structure of capitalist society,which is predicated on never ending ‘growth’….consumerism and… materialism.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              Yes, I’d agree with that. I like capitalism to be closely-regulated. And certsinly the frackin banks & the finance sector. I don’t like the wealth gap or the ability of the obscenely wealthy & those on humungous salaries or working for Corporations to screw governments into ignoring their people or treating them as disposable cheap production units. In fact I fucken hate it.

              But I think without innovation & inventions, & people willing to take the risk of borowing money from investors & creating business to make & sell products and services – short of a Stalinesque system of threats & occasional imprisonment & like Stalin did with his W W2 warplanes designers – we probably wouldn’t have any of benefits of modern society – including the devices enabling us to have this conversation.

            • Blazer

               /  June 11, 2017

              ‘”Conservatives say if you don’t give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they’ve lost all incentive because we’ve given them too much money.” –George Carlin

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              And I think there’s some truth in both of those statements. But the question I’m looking for answer to, personally, is what’s the best system to give us a happy medium. Without private investment, I wouldn’t trust governments to be run an economy – I’ve worked for decades in government departments.

              Public servants are not deserving of all the criticism that gets dumped on them. I worked harder & longer than many people in the jobs I did and always did a good job. Truly – always. My attitude was that if people couldn’t understand the rules, the rules were too complicated. I’d find a way to get involved in simplifying them. I was always fair. Same with systems. I worked on improving them. I received my promotions & skills development thru doing that.

              But govt department senior managers were, and probably still are, imo, utterly feckin useless at figuring out how to run their own departments efficiently, delivering real value for money. They should never be responsible for the running of businesses & industry.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              I’m calling this one a win unless anybody wants to get into the cage.

    • PDB

       /  June 10, 2017

      Probably why Labour are lucky to get 28% of the electorate voting for them………your ‘reality’ is the one shared by the bitter few at places like ‘The Standard’.

    • PDB

       /  June 11, 2017

      That would be the same ‘legislation that made a real difference to ordinary people’ that sits like a millstone around our neck – welfare for instance is one of the biggest failings in modern history (especially when you consider the cost over the years), interest-free student loans another Labour disaster.

      Blazer: “All profits come from labour”

      Ironic then that the NZ Labour party of today doesn’t represent the working class.

      • Blazer

         /  June 11, 2017

        Welfare is only a failing when it is unnecessary….like …corporate welfare,a supparating sore on the face of so called laissez faire economics.

        • Gezza

           /  June 11, 2017

          I agree, can’t see why Corporations should be getting taxpayer dish – but exactly how much corporate welfare is there here, out of interest? You obviously know more about this than me.