Open Forum – Sunday

11 June 2017

Facebook: NZ politics/media+

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64 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  June 11, 2017

    @ Maureen. I’d like to continue our discussion, topic by topic, if you would. Gonna try posting more of them separately, when I’ve thought about them.
    ……..
    I’d say I was a centre voter now. Used to be hard left Labour as a young man, then centre left Labour, detested Rogernomics & Rogergnomes, & put up with Clark as a centre lefter, but went right off her at the end. Probably won’t vote National, but don’t think they’re evil.
    
……..

    M: I would like to see NZ stay uniquely NZ.
G: How? What do you think are the unhealthy changes happening?
M: The Gold Coast was probably nice once upon a time, it got converted into a tourism mecca; an ugly clanging, banging, buy it here, *buy it now* shithole. I liked NZ more when you could go to more places and do more things without the need for licenses and cash registers. It had more of a “just do it” feel, rather than book it, get in line and pay ya money. We’re all just customers now.
    G: Yes, like when I was 20. I don’t know if that’s ever going to come back now, Maureen. Being “Customers” is not necessarily a bad thing – when you’re interacting with a “service provider” ACTUAL PERSON who understands what good customer service actually is: meeting the customers’ needs – & especially, apologising & fixing things immediately if a mistake is made. The trouble often is, imo, service providers – in Govt Departments AND businesses – are just automatons. There’s often not enough of what I just said happening. (Generalising a bit, I know).

    But, if I’m wrong – if you think we can get some of that old style more freedom, less regulation & money-paying back, how?

    • Gezza

       /  June 11, 2017

      (PS: National – ok, they might be a bit evil, but not as evil as c.)

      • …or Labour 🤗

        • Gezza

           /  June 11, 2017

          You are hard woman trav. But I guess the MOTH knew he what was in for & he was up for it. 👍 ❤️

          • My MOTH!!! Hell’s bells, I make the concessions in my household mate. I’m a walkover. He’s an ultra alpha. Fortunately he has a well-attuned SOH, otherwise I wouldn’t still be here. He said to me when we moved in together that whatever I could dish out, he had 10 times better. Grew up with bossy sisters, so I guess he knew a thing or two about dealing with them. 😩😩😩😩

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              Don’t give him any. Worked for my Mrs.

    • Gezza

       /  June 11, 2017

      🌸

  2. Gezza

     /  June 11, 2017

    Sorry – stuffed up the formating above a bit …
    ……..
    M: I would like a government that doesn’t bullshit about immigration”

    G: Me too. It’s outrageous that Immigration statistics are based on arrival & departure cards. Visa data & no doubt other useful metadata are all held in a database or linked group of them. It’s impossible that more rich, accurate info is unobtainable. If it isn’t – it should be a priority to make it available – via a suite of routine queries & reports, with system generated graphs/charts.

    G: Do you agree, Maureen? I mean, before we can pressure parties to spell out how they are going to handle immigration, seems to me we have to be all talking about the same bloody figures. So who do we bash over the head to get them?

    • Conspiratoor

       /  June 11, 2017

      Don’t hold your breath G. Immigration statistics, if the truth was known, would see these arse holes get the kicking they richly deserve. Cheers,c

      • Gezza

         /  June 11, 2017

        Are they as evil as you though, c, that’s the question? 😳

      • MaureenW

         /  June 11, 2017

        Agreed. Where is the conversation about this for the coming election?

        • Gezza

           /  June 11, 2017

          Not a lot of benefit in having the discussion when it’s he says: she says over the statistics. This where I feel hacked off with opposition parties for not getting stuck in boots & all & raiding merry hell this lack of essential data every opportunity until it becomes such a bloody problem & source of ongoing publuc complaint they do something with the stats to stop the racket.

          • Gezza

             /  June 11, 2017

            FiP!

          • Conspiratoor

             /  June 11, 2017

            Not a lot of point in obsessing over stats G when the evidence is plain to see. Great swathes of our largest city have been taken over by asian hordes. Mini cities within cities are bursting from our green belts. I drove through what used to be a military base at hobsonville yesterday. Row upon row of obscene little shoeboxes stacked three or four high, well out if the reach of first home buyers. You would never believe this unless you see it with your own eyes. Perhaps on your big adventure in Nov you could take a detour round the North shore. Report back. Cheers,c

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              I know what you’re saying, c. But in my opinion, there is. At the moment, all that happens is the govt says, no, there isn’t a problem, ‘these are the numbers: yaw trouble is yaw just rayshists’.

              And the media reports that. People are left scratchin they’s haids, goin’ – “wha’ the hey?”

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              And, govt also say – as Simon Bridges would probably put it:

              “We havin’ god enuff skulled pee-pull too pay faw yaw re-tyre-mint.”

            • MaureenW

               /  June 11, 2017

              The immigration issue is a government agenda. It does not come up for any scrutiny during the election cycle, then they just carry on as before. Labour and National both.
              I would like to see this become an election issue.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              Absolutely – but intelligently. Parties need to tackle it intelligently, not just try to do it subliminally, or with dog whistling. They need data. To bash everybody including the government with the data, the stats, refute the government’s bs excuses & accusations of racism. They’re too fkn lazy or stupid to go after & get the info – a researcher did recently, PG posted some of it here.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              You know, never mind just work visas on issue, how many are in the pipeline?

              When I go into Harvey Norman, half the staff in the appliances, audio, tv, & electronics departments speak Indian-accented English. They’re great. Good customer service ethic – they’ll order stuff not in stock for you & ring you when arrives – just on the promise that if they do, you will actually come & pay for it. Noel Leeming are lazy shits by comparison.

              But their job’s doesn’t require any technical skills – they’re salespersons. How come there aren’t some lazy-assed slack service kiwis doing the job, lousily? They’ve got no end of them over at fkn Leemings.

              Train our lousy staff properly, and give them the jobs.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              And how many overseas students are here, studying for whatever? They won’t be going home. If they get NZ quals, they’re immigrants in the pipeline. That’s not necessarily a problem. They’ll speak English well & be familiar with our society, & be available to fill skilled jobs. But are they then crowding out some kiwi job opportunities? Does that lower wages? I don’t know. Shouldn’t someone be looking at that?

            • Conspiratoor

               /  June 11, 2017

              Ask the next one you see G, how many of his extended family are either in that pipeline, or have sailed through and are enjoying free medical care while they skip their way to a well earned pension

            • PDB

               /  June 11, 2017

              Gezza: “Train our lousy staff properly, and give them the jobs.”

              As I’ve told you many a time kiwi’s, and in the main younger kiwi’s, do not want to work and employers can’t even attract them by paying the so-called ‘living wage’ rates or higher.

              Like how many of these people think that buying an affordable house in Mt Eden should be their ‘right’ they also think that they should just walk into a cushy office job paying $100k+.

              Habits such as getting up early to go to work is too much for many and whilst the welfare system encourages people to not work this problem will remain. The National govt has done pretty well in getting some of these people into work but accusations of ‘beneficiary bashing’ and the rights of beneficiaries stops more being done.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  June 11, 2017

              You do have a point, Pants. A majority of ‘young kiwi fellas’ these days, seem to have a sense of entitlement, that is thoroughly undeserved. In my experience, anyway. And they get quite upset, when told that they need to try harder.
              Which is why training kiwi apprentices isn’t working. The last 3 employers I have worked for, no longer train apprentices, because of the attitude, of ‘Generation 90’s’. Back when I was ‘doing my time’, myself & the other apprentices from my workplace, all got up to the usual mischief that teenagers did, & have always done. The difference between then & now, is that we always turned up at work the next day, & respected the older tradesmen. If you got a verbal hiding, or a slap from one of them, you ‘sucked it up’, and learned a lesson. These days, a talentless little shit, who wound up someone senior to breaking point, could cost a company tens of thousands in employment court.

            • Gezza

               /  June 11, 2017

              @ PDB

              You’re right, but I’m not going to tell you that because I’m bloody sure you hardly ever give me any upticks and it’d just go to your head.

              The problem with Social Welfare is that it’s too much of a blunt axe. It might be cushy for some, if they’ve managed to wangle everything they can out of the system somehow – but I know people who’ve got nothing – the absolute barest possible amount, & payments fkd around with every week, when they desperately needed temporary help, thru no fault of their own, & all they could get was loans they hadn’t a hope of repaying so couldn’t take. It there’s any discretion at all in the system – it’s not visible or it certainly wasn’t being used.

  3. Gezza

     /  June 11, 2017

    M: I would like education to be meaningful and useful instead of the monetised bullshit courses that are forced upon people trying to gain academic qualifications in their chosen field.”


    G: What should go, what should remain, in your view?


    M: My dissatisfaction is more around the debt for education factor. Once people could go to university and work a part time job to support themselves – I don’t believe that is viable anymore due to the cost of accommodation. Accordingly these kids are incurring massive debts / to happy banks – obtaining qualifications. Many are unable to get jobs with at the end. Just left with massive debts.

    G: Re jobs. Yes, so we hear. I’m not actually sure how many there are though. Or which are all the most affected quals-holders. And there’s sometimes dispute about it. You hear someone say every year that NZ nursing graduates can’t get jobs, for example – but then you hear in reply from one or more DHB’s that they have to recruit overseas because they can’t get enough NZ nurses. Scratching my head over that one.

    We’re obviously massively understocked in apprentices in the building & associated trades. Another area where overseas recruitment plugs the gap, but it seems, from something patu said, that in the metal fabrication trades, for example, overseas tradies aren’t as good. They’re ‘one thing only’ – whereas NZ apprentices have previously been able to turn their hand to many more tasks – much better for a good employer who pays well & struggles to meet demand, or would like to employ more staff & expand the business (jobs, jobs, jobs).

    1. What are the other skills areas you know of where the grads can’t get jobs?

    2. And do you think tertiary education should be Govt funded (free), Govt part-funded, or user-pays, and why?

    3. And what could or should the government (or tertiary institutions) do about the mismatch between tertiary students & available jobs?

    • Gezza

       /  June 11, 2017

      Maybe more later

      • Gezza

         /  June 11, 2017

        🌸

      • Blazer

         /  June 11, 2017

        some people look at working for the Govt or the Council as just…enhanced social welfare.

        • Gezza

           /  June 11, 2017

          I duppose they might. Never seen it that way, but dunno in detail what other depsrtments all do. Both mine aren’t looked at that way. Most of the front line work in my last one can’t really be contracted out. A little bit was overseas. Been some problems tho. Needs close monitoring & I expect there’ll be more probes. Only contracted out because they couldn’t sustain office costs with depts having to charge each other for such.

  4. Gezza

     /  June 11, 2017

    A Full Moon is setting in the SW. Looks huge, a golden creamy colour. I never tire of looking at that great big mini-planet without which life might not have arisen in the tidal pools & estuaries. Sometimes with binoculars, especially along the terminator. That is all.
    07:26 hours.

    • Sounds wonderful. I do so love our beautiful world. Everything about the natural world evokes a visceral response in me. I’m about to haul myself out of the pit and go walking in the Park. It’s been an awesome Fall here as we’ve had little to no wind. Been able to wallow in the rusty tones and the golden hues for weeks.

      • Gezza

         /  June 11, 2017

        Me too. Will be feeding the waterbird family by the stream @ 8am. The most wonderful thing, trav, is that we can comprehend & appreciate it. God was sure some artisan. Pity he difn’t hang around & make everything perfect.

        • Traveller

           /  June 11, 2017

          See the phantom downticker is not as enamoured of nature as us Gezza

          🌝🌝🌝

          • Gezza

             /  June 11, 2017

            Just a wee pimple on the botty of humanity, trav. Might go away eventually.

  5. Blazer

     /  June 11, 2017

    yes a wonderful world to be preserved from the ravaging of….environmental vandals who care only about the profits,here and….now.

    • Well, try and restrain yourself and your environmental excesses then. Do your bit. Today I’m planting several trees – planes, liquidambars and titoki. Doing my bit for the carbon footprint. You?

      • Blazer

         /  June 11, 2017

        what excesses are you talking about?Nice to see you are planting some…. trees,especially since we know…’money does not grow…on trees’.

        • Traveller

           /  June 11, 2017

          In my case I can assure you that “money” can and does grow on trees. Over the course of my life I’ve happily planted thousands. I’ll also be dosing today’s lot with worm juice from my worm farm. These worms fed on my kitchen waste. I’ll be planting them in composted discarded weeds and waste from my vegetable garden and the excreta from various herbivores.

  6. Blazer

     /  June 11, 2017

    believe it ..or not!

    NEW ZEALAND NEEDS YOU

    This year, immigrants have been granted work visas to fill these jobs, because employers said they were unable to find suitable Kiwis.

    * 5 bungy jump masters
    * 2 barristers
    * 101 baristas
    * 25 checkout operators
    * 295 housekeepers
    * 128 fast food cooks
    * 45 laundry workers
    * 4 judges
    * 1 parking inspector
    * 5 sculptors
    * 1 streetsweeper operator
    * 4 tow truck drivers
    stuff.

  7. Blazer

     /  June 11, 2017

    ‘A gorilla walks into a bar, and orders a beer.

    The bartender says “That’ll be £5 please…if you don’t mind me saying, we don’t get many of your kind in here”

    The gorilla says “I’m not surprised with your prices

  8. http://www.top.org.nz/taxpayer_subsidises_establishment_parties
    TOP wants to build a mailing list, send you targeted emails, support charities AND claim the higher moral ground on election advertising spend. Innovative!

  9. Anonymous Coward

     /  June 11, 2017

    One for BJ Marsh…

    https://worldtruth.tv/chris-cornell-was-about-to-expose-elite-pedophile-ring-before-he-died/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialWarfare

    Soundgarden singer Chris Cornell was about to expose a pedophile ring with links to the Clintons before he died (or was murdered). Yeah Right !

  10. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2017

    Theresa May got a call from our dour PM BILLIE”what the hell did you do wrong Theresa,she said I VOTED NATIONAL BILLIE

    • PDB

       /  June 11, 2017

      You shouldn’t drink during the afternoon………..how’s the good wife doing?

  11. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2017

    MY WIFE COMES HOME TOMMOROW

    • Gezza

       /  June 11, 2017

      Cool about the Mrs, Lurch. 👍

      Shame about the video.

      • lurcher1948

         /  June 11, 2017

        2 weeks from the beginning to the end, of her heart surgery.I have missed my wife my partner, now i will help her recover,mu rants are my own….enjoy

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  June 11, 2017

          Enjoy tomorrow, Lurch. Celebrate life, together.

      • lurcher1948

         /  June 11, 2017

        GEZZA did you watch that mexican vampire movie, very good,we all have teeth

        • Gezza

           /  June 11, 2017

          Oh, I see PG fixed the video 4u. Great news about your wife coming home, Lurch. really pleased for ya mate. Take good care of her – I know ya will. They’re brilliant to have at home, eh, Missuses?

  12. patupaiarehe

     /  June 11, 2017

    Here’s one for you G. Jr & I have been giving our guitars a right old hiding today, he has really taken to the bass, and once we were done, I suggested learning this one. So he ‘googled it’, and came up with this most excellent tutorial. Enjoy…