London Finsbury Park Mosque attack

Tensions have been raised and complicated by what is being treated as a terrorist attack with a van that hit people coming out of a mosque in London.

BBC:  ‘Major incident’ as van hits worshippers

Summary

  1. One man has died and 10 people have been injured
  2. Home Secretary Amber Rudd says it is being treated by police as a “terrorist incident”
  3. Muslim Council of Britain says van intentionally ran over worshippers
  4. A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder
  5. The Metropolitan Police describe it as a “major incident”
  6. The area was busy with worshippers leaving evening prayers at Finsbury Park Mosque

Alleged attacker ‘acted alone’ – police

Asked about reports of a number of suspects running away from the van, the Met police said that was a key line of inquiry at the start of investigation.

“But from what we are seeing and what witnesses are reporting to us there was nobody else in the van, it appears that this time this attacker attacked alone,” Dep Asst Commissioner Basu said.

“This is not to say we are not investigating the full circumstances of how he came to be where he was but at this point in time there was nobody else in the van.”

Not the first terror attack against Muslims

This is not the first time that Muslims have been targeted in an apparent act of terrorism in the UK – and all the signs are that this terrible incident is nothing short of that.

The threat from extreme right-wing groups has been growing in recent years – 16% of all terror arrests in the year to March were classed as “domestic extremism”.

Those who have turned to violence have tended to go for visible Muslim targets – namely mosques.

In 2013 an extreme right-wing Ukrainian man murdered a Muslim grandfather in Birmingham and tried to bomb three mosques.

The following year saw the jailing for 10 years of a man from the north-west who was researching bomb-making and mosques to target.

And just last December the Home Secretary banned “National Action”, a group whose supporters have been investigated for planning violence.

It was probably just a matter of time before there was some sort of retaliatory attack in response to Muslim suicide attacks, but again innocent people have been targeted.

Difficult times for people in London and throughout England.

Any attack like this that targets random and innocent people must be condemned, no matter who the perpetrator is and no matter who the targets are.

 

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84 Comments

  1. Whale Oil has tended to be quick off the mark with incidents that turn out to be terrorist acts, and also jump to suggested conclusions on incidents that have nothing to do with terrorism (the Grenfell apartment block fire in London).

    So far there is a post by SB – Beware of Islamophobia and Counter terrorism experts – but that may just be one of her very regular anti-Muslim/Islam posts that could have been pre-scheduled.

    It will be interesting to see how they handle this one.

    Reply
    • I missed this post: Breaking News: Pedestrians have been struck by van in London.

      Some of the comments are predictably ugly.

      Reply
  2. Tipene

     /  June 19, 2017

    If it’s a local Brit who has done this, then whether or not he is “connected” to whomever – it would seem that civil war has now begun in the UK.

    This is most likely an inevitable outcome for a country that was relying on “run, hide” tell” as a citizen defence strategy – bad shit happens when members of a sovereign nation feel under attack, and the sovereign nations Govt is responsible for the enemies within.

    It’s started with mosques – but it’s not going to end there, is it?

    Reply
    • Civil war is not inevitable and I’m sure all authorities and most people will be doing what they can to avoid any escalation.

      Playing into the hands of violent extremists would be madness.

      Reply
      • Tipene

         /  June 19, 2017

        @Pete: I think the situation has gone way, way beyond anyone playing into anything.

        Once enough country-of-origin Britons cotton onto what has actually occurred in their country who was responsible for it, and that the powers-that-be refuse to protect them – then eventually, it will be all on for young and old.

        It’s either that, or cede national sovereignty to a Govt-sanctioned back door take-over.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 19, 2017

          They won’t be able to shut the door on the problem of Islamic terrorism & any retaliation until their forces get out of Muslim countries.

          Reply
    • PDB

       /  June 19, 2017

      A few guys (or one guy) doing dumb shit by targeting Muslims doesn’t mean a civil war has begun – nonsense statement.

      Reply
      • Tipene

         /  June 19, 2017

        @pdb: Obviously not a fan of history, are you?

        Watch this space.

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  June 19, 2017

          History buff actually so wouldn’t waste your time waiting……

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  June 20, 2017

            I don’t know how many history books are in this house-too many to count.

            Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 19, 2017

      Aljazeera featured a middle aged Englishwoman at the scene, in tears, turning her head away: “Who would do such a thing? I can’t believe it. These are our neighbours. They’re lovely people. I’m sorry … I just can’t, I can’t talk about it … “. She couldn’t finish.

      Reply
  3. Gezza

     /  June 19, 2017

    That’ll make things worse, not better, with disaffected Muslims on and / or now off the Watch Lists, I expect.

    It’s odd that the Muslim Council should issue a statement telling worshippers Muslims were targetted, possibly even before the Police did? Missy might know.

    Reply
    • Tipene

       /  June 19, 2017

      @gezza: because they WANT escalation to occur, and they need recruits to wage it.

      “Van guy” just gave them another call to arms.

      Brown stuff, meet whirly thing.

      Reply
      • I expect a huge effort to try to prevent escalation, and a large majority support for that effort.

        Normalising anarchy as an acceptable or expected response does pose a risk but I hope that a civil society will prevail.

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  June 19, 2017

          The only thing that seems certain is that this will escalate. The fuse has been lit and i fear there is nothing the authorities can do to prevent a lot more bloodshed

          Reply
        • Tipene

           /  June 19, 2017

          @Pete: I suspect civil society failed to prevail the moment an alternative legal jurisdiction was permitted by the current legislature to become established in the UK (Sharia Courts).

          If that is not an act of anarchy towards the rule of law – then I don’t know what is.

          Reply
    • PDB

       /  June 19, 2017

      It’s because they have been under the cosh recently so when a white guy does the same shit no wonder they quickly jump on it and publicise that they are victims as well.

      Reply
  4. Reply
  5. Tipene

     /  June 19, 2017

    The JLC must have forgotten what the founder of the Muslim faith had to say about them:

    “The Hour will not be established until you fight against the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.'”

    Sahih Al-Bukhari, No. 2926

    This would be the same huiy who drove the jewish people out of medina, and supervised the beheadings of around 600-900 jewish males.

    Reply
  6. Reply
    • Tipene

       /  June 19, 2017

      Ummm………………….yep, but not in the way Welby thinks.

      Reply
    • “An attack on us all.” — No it wasn’t. It was quite plainly directed at Muslims, using a standard Muslim killing method. I’m surprised the Lefties aren’t condemning him for Cultural Appropriation.

      I will also be surprised if this tit-for-tat does not escalate. When ordinary folk feel their Government is not protecting them from danger they will turn against whoever they feel is threatening them. This sort of blind lashing out is to be expected from those who are most fragile mentally, who are most likely to kick back first. The real problems will come when the more rational and intelligent ones decide they have had enough, and are no longer prepared to tolerate those who are causing the disintegration of their hard-won civilisation.

      I don’t think it is an exaggeration to foresee civil warfare on the streets of Britain.

      Reply
      • Sorry to be black of humour, but I had to chortle at your “cultural appropriation”.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  June 20, 2017

          Why do you think that murder is funny ? Did you see the Kiwi man on the news last night describing what he saw when he and others lifted the van off a victim ? He wasn’t chortling.

          Reply
  7. For all its unacceptable murderous intent this act does not seem to qualify under Merriam-Webster’s definition of terrorism:
    — the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

    This is not terrorism: it is a knee-jerk response to terrorism.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 19, 2017

      It’s terrorism in the sense that I just heard Theresa May define it on Aljaz. If it’s intended to provoke & incite hatred & conflict.

      Reply
      • I have heard Theresa May called many things, but never a dictionary.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 20, 2017

          terrorism
          ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
          noun
          the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
          … … … …
          That’s the (defined) top result in the list from google query: ” ‘terrorism’ def “.

          The word terrorism is becoming a bit of a flexible noun. Probably other definitions exist as well. We don’t know anything much about the van driver. But if he hates & wants Muslims out of his homeland, Sailor, that’s a political as much as anything else.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 20, 2017

            *political aim

            Reply
          • I think his motivation seems more likely to have been social – ie to remove social miscreants from his neighbourhood – rather than political, unless he is involved with some Anglo-Welsh-Wessex Republican Army or something.

            The authorities are clearly desperate to paint him as a terrorist so they can crow that white people from Somerset/Cardiff are just as likely to murder innocent folk as Muslims are, in their drive to subjugate the whole planet to their brainwashed beliefs. Quite what the brainwashed beliefs of Weston-super-Mare are I have yet to discover. Perhaps Theresa May knows. George Orwell certainly knew about ‘flexible nouns’.

            Reply
            • “George Orwell certainly knew about ‘flexible nouns’.”

              As did Humpty Dumpty:

              — “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
              “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
              “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – – that’s all.”

            • Gezza

               /  June 20, 2017

              Yep. Right up there with “collateral” & “damage”.

    • Call it terrorism and keep everybody happy. Can’t call it lone wolf can we?

      Reply
      • The object of the exercise is to keep everybody cowed and frightened, not happy, so that they won’t fight back at the islamisation of their country. Victimising the aggressors and criminalising the objectors is part of that plan. As George Orwell noted, changing the meanings of words helps in this. My opinion of Theresa May has plummetted.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  June 20, 2017

          I am sure that she will be devastated to hear that your opinion of her has plummeted.

          The people hurt and killed were not terrorists.

          Reply
  8. sorethumb

     /  June 19, 2017

    Parr (2000) writes “[T]he views of New Zealanders are not conducive to the population of New Zealanders becoming more diversified globally.”

    From localism to globalism? New Zealand Sociology, 15(2), 304-. 335
    …….
    The immigration policy review in 1986 was part of a much larger agenda for change in New Zealand (Bedford 1996).
    The attitudes of New Zealanders in the mid-1990s towards immigration may not have reflected the positive perspective on the value of diversity in our society that is contained in the Review of Immigration Policy August 1986. But this does not mean that the globalisation of immigration to New Zealand was an “unintended consequence of policy changes in 1986”. It was a deliberate strategy, based on a premise that the “infusion of new elements to New Zealand life has been of immense value to the development of this country to date and will, as a result of this Government’s review of immigration policy, become even more important in the future” (Burke 1986:330).
    ……….
    This process of population replacement is occurring at a time when natural increase amongst all components of the New Zealand resident population is falling. International
    migration is thus playing an increasingly important role in changing the ethnic and cultural composition of the population,
    The Globalisation of International Migration
    in New Zealand: Contribution to a Debate
    RICHARD BEDFORD
    The same happened in the UK and Australia.
    “To the puzzlement of many and the delight of some, New Zealand has not been exempt from such transformations even if it has taken some time for us to perceive the shape of the new order. ”
    Paul Spoonley

    Reply
  9. Missy

     /  June 20, 2017

    This is a terrible thing to have happened, in what is a difficult week, but I think it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

    There is no information on the guy who did it except his age, so his nationality, political leanings etc are unknown, but this hasn’t stopped the media saying he is a far right extremist, without any information on him, and it hasn’t stopped Muslims from saying the media are trying to cover it up despite the fact they can’t say anything about him under law.

    There are some serious problems here, and many are feeling a lot of anger and helplessness, and it only increases as the media and the politicians appear to be failing to address the issues. This is a manifestation of a lot of anger, not just at the Islamic Extremists who have carried out terror attacks, but also those on the left, in the media, and in politics who have failed to satisfactorily have an honest debate about it all and who label those with concerns as racist.

    Working class Brits are feeling marginalised in their own country, (and no they are not far right, or alt right, or only white), they feel ignored and patronised, and they are frightened of what they perceive to be happening in their country, and they feel that many are taking the side of those that wish them harm, (rightly or wrongly), and when they voice their concerns they are labelled ignorant, racist, islamaphobic.

    As one comment I saw on twitter today said, ‘the liberal left are fuelling the rise of the far right.’

    Reply
  10. Missy

     /  June 20, 2017

    The man arrested for this has been named locally, originally from Somerset he is believed to now live in Cardiff. I am treating this with a grain of salt, I don’t believe it has come from the police, and last time a terror suspect was ‘named locally’ it turned out to be the wrong person named (Westminster attack).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/19/finsbury-park-mosque-latest-terror-attack-london-live/

    I have seen rumours on Twitter that someone who knows him has reportedly said he lost a family member in one of the recent terrorist attacks. This is unsubstantiated and based on 3rd party information, but if it is true (remote possibility) then it could provide the motive, and will make it very difficult to convict on terrorism rather than as a hate crime.

    Sadiq Khan is not doing much to help the situation to be honest. He has announced that all police are being called back from leave to provide more security and protection for Muslims during Ramadan – after the Muslim community demanded it. This will fuel the divisions in London as he didn’t provide more protection for people at pubs and in entertainment areas after London Bridge, and it was the police who requested the army after Manchester so that they could re-deploy armed officers from London to other parts of the country.

    This comes a day after the Al Quds march in London which is seen as being approved and sanctioned by the Mayor. This is not popular, and many see it as the Mayor approving and supporting anti-semitism and proscribed terror groups (the Hezbollah flag is flown quite prominently). There is a call from some in London to have the Hezbollah and ISIS flags banned in the UK as the Nazi flag is banned in Germany. More and more people are seeing the Mayor as doing all he can to support and protect Muslims at the expense of the rest of the population.

    Reply
    • “Sadiq Khan is not doing much to help the situation to be honest. He has announced that all police are being called back from leave to provide more security and protection for Muslims during Ramadan – after the Muslim community demanded it. This will fuel the divisions in London as he didn’t provide more protection for people at pubs and in entertainment areas after London Bridge, and it was the police who requested the army after Manchester so that they could re-deploy armed officers from London to other parts of the country.”

      One dead and all police back from leave? Seems like a tad overreacting

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 20, 2017

        l commented above to you that I saw him give this press conference live on Aljaz & wondered if this might not go down to well with the general population, trav.

        He made a very big point of walking over to 6 of the dozen or more police officers spread out across the street behind & near him & shaking their hands, before walkibg away & disappearing off the scene.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 20, 2017

          He also said in reply to a reporter that there had been a spike in anti-Muslim hate crimes.

          Must have jarred with many – when there has been such an obvious & hideous spike in anti-British-people hate crimes by Muslims.

          Reply
    • Blazer

       /  June 20, 2017

      Darren Osbourne!….whats the threatometer …reading these days?

      Reply
  11. The BBC understands the man arrested for the attack is 47-year-old Darren Osborne.

    It is also understood that he grew up in Weston-super-Mare, in North Somerset, and has four children.

    The Met Police earlier confirmed that officers were searching a property in Cardiff.

    Reply
  12. Chuck Bird

     /  June 20, 2017

    This is the first attack in the UK against Muslims in the UK that I have heard of. I am not including leaving bacon at a mosque or verbal insults like have happened here in NZ. I believe that this is the first case of a Muslim being murdered because of his or her religion.

    Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  June 20, 2017

      There were over 800 reported attacks against Muslims in the UK in the year ended July 2015. Victims were mainly women 15-45; their attackers were mainly young white men 15-35 and unknown to them

      In August 2015 an 81 year old Muslim man was beaten to death as he went to his mosque in Rotherham

      This may be the first attack in the UK that you’ve heard of Chuck, but it’s not the first to take place…

      Reply
  13. Joe Bloggs

     /  June 20, 2017
    Reply
  14. sorethumb

     /  June 20, 2017

    I remember being terrorized by loud parties next door. One day at 1:30am I stood yelling things from the deck then throwing things, then I had my jeans on and running shoes. It was as though a fuse had mean lit and in I went. I knocked the first (innocent actually) person I met out before being set upon (including a bottle on my head). I enjoyed myself immensely. That could account for the guy laughing as he was subdued?

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  June 20, 2017

      great contribution to the ‘War on Terror’….proud of yourself?

      Reply
      • sorethumb

         /  June 20, 2017

        I wouldn’t do it again because 1. I exposed myself to uneven odds (the neighbors were students not roughs) 2. I didn’t hit ring leaders who were hovering around the stereo. 3. I recognize that I was in the same state that sends people into battle – with a sense of exhilaration (no longer thinking).
        One thing that went through my head prior to that was (apart from a long history of being unable to control next door) seeing a young Toff walking down my street early one morning with a girlfriend behind and casually knocking cones over. I thinking how there exists a lawless gap: civil liberties – rights – hand wringing- evidence- delay – action- cost etc

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  June 20, 2017

          Toff is not a proper name, so doesn’t need a capital; there is no country whose nationals are Toff. How on earth do you know that he was one ? Or do you think that all university students are toffs ? Knocking cones over is a nuisance but hardly a sign of lawlessness.

          Have you heard of Noise Control, or is there no Noise Control in your town ?

          I doubt if your idea of a soldier going into battle is accurate.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  June 20, 2017

            Pretty damn scary when you’re on a rampage. Careful … sort of thing that could cause PTSD in the unwary !

            Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  June 21, 2017

            Well, really-knocking cones over wouldn’t be considered a sign of lawlessness by most people.

            A call to Noise Control is probably more effective than racing into the party and acting like the Incredible Hulk..

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  June 21, 2017

              youth is full of pleasure…’…and he was green…with..envy.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 21, 2017

              Ah, so to him cone-knocking is a wild and lawless thing of youth, the height of depravity and daring.

              Don’t tell him that university students also (whispers) smoke marijuana.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  June 21, 2017

              Knocked back many cones, in my student days, Kitty 😉

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 21, 2017

              Strewth, patu, in my student days you would have struggled to find one to knock over. Nowadays there is one every five metres along every road. Bob Jones reckons the manufacturer must be a billionaire. Likewise the employers of the minions deployed to move them around. I guess every taxpayer has paid for a thousand or so.

            • Blazer

               /  June 21, 2017

              @kc ,Al … There are cones…. and… cones.😉

            • patupaiarehe

               /  June 21, 2017

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 22, 2017

              I never knocked cones over, but no student flat was complete without signs nicked from the council.* Everyone seemed to have a set of glasses by ‘the well-known Dutch designer ‘Hanz’. ‘ (yes, I know that Hans is a German name) until the HANZ had the brilliant idea of not putting this on their glasses .

              We went on pub crawls and played Dead Ants in the road. Chunder Miles were still in then-I saw the last one at Vic.

              Some students pinched an empty PO post box and somehow fastened it halfway up a power pole. When it was finally taken down, there were letters in it !

              * My bedroom had a sign outside it that said that it was the Classics Department. In my defense, it was an old & discarded one,

              An old man I knew said that when HE was at university in the 50s, someone nailed up a sign stolen from a garage in the mens’ loo-‘Empty Your Sump and Refill it With Castrol.’

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 22, 2017

              Students put a Mini on the roof of the old Canterbury University Main Hall in my day. Bugger knocking over road cones.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 23, 2017

              Road cone knocking is pathetic,

              A friend was involved with the lighting of windows in an Otago University building, one that could be seen by much of Dunedin, so that they spelt FOCK. At a given signal, the row of lights that were the top of the O were turned off.

              I have heard of the car on the roof 😀 Road cones, indeed….the person can’t have been a student, or if he was, he was a feeble one.

              A friend and I were unable to resist the temptation when the department signs were temporarily down for some reason-painting, I suppose-and swapped them around in the hope that people would think that they’d come to the wrong floor.

              Torless Terrace was routinely altered to Topless Terrace, of course.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 23, 2017

              It was the Engineering students, of course. Don’t know how they got it up there but it was pretty impressive from inside the quadrangle. Steep slate roof too.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 23, 2017

              It’s been done before and probably since-I think that cars have been dismantled and reassembled on the roof when the parts have been brought up. But it’s great fun….like the postbox halfway up the lamppost.

              Someone at Wellington Polytech couldn’t resist it when the sign appeared ‘Do Not Fasten Bicycles to the Railings.’ They didn’t-they soldered one to the railing instead.

              Did you ever play Dead Ants in the road ? (for the unitiated, this entails lying on one’s back in the road, arms and legs straight up like, er, a dead ant)

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 23, 2017

              Yes, the word at the time was that they took it up in pieces but I don’t know if that was true. Nope, Dead Ants sounds a deal too dangerous to me not to mention being freezing cold in a Chch winter.

  15. sorethumb

     /  June 20, 2017

    The so called New Right (or Alt Right) are on to something as explained here:
    “Perhaps the Sailerist idea most closely echoed by the Trump movement is “citizenism,” which he describes as the philosophy that a nation should give overwhelming preference to the interests of its current citizens over foreigners, in the same way as a corporation prioritizes the interests of its current shareholders over everyone else. Effectuating this philosophy — putting “Americans First,” as he put it in 2006—would, according to Sailer, require a draconian reduction in immigration levels.
    Most liberals would take issue with citizenism as reactionary, and perhaps see it as a closeted form of the white nationalism openly championed by many bloggers on the alt-right. Yet Sailer describes citizenism as the best possible bulwark against ethnonationalist impulses. In Sailer’s view, people are naturally inclined to pursue “ethnic nepotism” — that is, to help those like themselves at the expense of those who are not. The goal of citizenism, therefore, is to redirect these energies by providing a more expansive definition of “us” than the race or tribe.
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/steve-sailer-invented-identity-politics-for-the-alt-right.html
    This idea of ethnic nepotism comes from evolutionary psychology and is simply *favouritism*, producing bias and *othering*. Compare that to say an explanation of racism as having arrived in NZ with colonization (Paul Spoonley). I posted a day ago about Chinese “netzins” and their pejorative view of the “white left” the author (Chinese) said it was a case of [ethnic] “othering”. It isn’t that simple, however we can “other” people of our own ethnicity ( progressive up/ grunting thicko down). It is a debate that is simmering and fiercely resisted in social science and humanities departments of the universities who appear to have self selected those who part their hair on the left. There is emerging evidence to suggest the evolutionary psychologists are correct, however 1. experiments involving oxytocin 2. computer modelling shows ethnocentrism outcompetes other survival strategies.
    3. evidence is emerging that immigrant communities harbour invidious attitude towards Anglo Australians, disparaging their culture and the legitimacy of their central place in national identity.[xxiii]
    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2010/06/the-misguided-advocates-of-open-borders/

    Reply
  16. sorethumb

     /  June 20, 2017

    The UN has a branch whose goal is to “aims to improve understanding and co-operative relations among nations and peoples across cultures and religions and, in the process, to

    help counter forces that fuel polarisation and extremism, including ‘clash of civilisations’ theories that the world is made up of mutually exclusive cultures, religions, or civilisations,
    historically distinct and destined for confrontation.

    The United Nations established the
    alliance in 2005, on the co-sponsorship of the prime ministers of Spain and Turkey.
    See further United Nations, Alliance of Civilizations (http://www.unaoc.org)
    and United Nations (2006). The Ministry of Social Development is leading the
    co-ordination of a New Zealand Plan of Action focused on the alliance’s four main
    fields of action: education, youth, migration and the media. See further Human Rights
    Commission, New Zealand Plan of Action to Support the Alliance of
    Civilisations (http://www.hrc.co.nz/hrc_new/hrc/cms/files/documents/08-Jul-2008_08-
    27-28_1378966DA

    Our education act has blurred the line between activism and standing back and objectively studying behavior. The result is a crack down on free speech in so far as those who even hint at ethnic interests are the devil. On The Project Duncan Grieve (any relation to the famous Invercargill Publican?) (referring to students who started a European Interests Group at Canterbury University) gloated: “when the lights come on the rats scurry away”.

    Johnathan Haidt on the “telos” of the academy

    Reply

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