Open Forum – Monday

31 July 2017

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site will have to keep going through moderation due to abuses by a small number of malicious people.

A wide variety of topics and views are encouraged and welcomed, but some topics and some extremes may not be appropriate nor allowed.

Leave a comment

66 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  July 31, 2017

    This incident happened less then three hours away from our beautiful sanctuary. It’s almost a given Kiwis would have lost their lives. That’s someone’s loved ones.

    Now there is added security at airports. That means two hour delays.

    Will the West ever learn? Sadly, no. We are lucky today our media aren’t carrying a story that would have been as big as 911. And what would the toll be if the plane blew up over a major New Zealand city. If I was a terrorist I would want bang for my bucks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/30/australian-police-foil-elaborate-plot-to-detonate-bomb-on-plane

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  July 31, 2017

      Not only that Corky but will politics become ethnically based?

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  July 31, 2017

        You cannot trust AUSTRALIANS they can be mongrels at times trying to kill NZs

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  July 31, 2017

          Yes, ol’ Blue probably had a barbie and a Fosters, then said to his mates ” maties, lets get time off work, build a bomb and blow a fuggin plane out of the sky.”

          Balls out, maties. This will be a goer.

          Reply
  2. sorethumb

     /  July 31, 2017

    Guerilla Surgeon said…
    Victor. We certainly need an ethical revolution. Someone in the US is promoting a “pro truth pledge”. Might be worth investigating.

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/how-to-address-the-epidemic-of-lies-in-politics/
    ………..
    Except that post-modernism rejects the enlightenment – there is no objective truth.

    What part does post-modernism play in Maori politics (your reality versus mine)?

    Bear in mind only 5% of the population are aware of post-modernism and the government don’t watch the children play?

    Reply
  3. sorethumb

     /  July 31, 2017

    greywarbler said…
    I noticed that as soon as the Constitutional Conversation started touring the country there were old men who have been vocal for a while but who had not come to my notice, not at all interested in living in a fair and harmonious democracy, now rising up to dominate the meetings and condemn Maori recompense and flogging the ‘We are all One’ mantra.

    Unpleasant old men with a log on their shoulder, who now apparently were mouthpieces for a large group of inward looking greedies who want the injection of material superiority that gives meaning to their pathetic lives.

    30 July 2017 at 15:42
    ………..
    That’s the real Green Party

    Reply
  4. Corky

     /  July 31, 2017

    CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS?

    People know I have a fixation on the middle class…hell, I even dream about the middleclass.
    I am middleclass, so is my dog.

    The problem with the middleclass is two fold..naivety; and stemming from that the belief everyone has the same mindset and values.

    So I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

    Of course these middleclass PMs will have no contact with the refugees. Other people will have the headaches of trying to resettle and assimilate them into a society that is so alien to these refuges it could be from a sci-fi comic.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/07/four-ex-prime-ministers-want-refugee-quota-raised.html

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  July 31, 2017

      Excellent to hear squawk back radio agreeing with me. Maybe I am wrong and more Kiwis are aware of this situation then I thought.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  July 31, 2017

        The former refugees whom I see around seem to have settled in all right. The Muslims tend to wear trad clothes, but that makes the place more colourful and exotic, as many Indians also wear the lovely clothes of India.

        Some things-working for a living, having a family-are universal.

        Bigotry and mean-spiritedness are also, I suspect, universal.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  July 31, 2017

          We have been through this before. See my above comments regarding the middle class. Naivety is also a universal trait.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  July 31, 2017

            Pig-headed stupidity seems to be equally ubiquitous.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  July 31, 2017

              Yes, lets hope it sinks in for Kitty.

            • Gezza

               /  July 31, 2017

              She may not be able to see thru my smoke? 😳

            • Gezza

               /  July 31, 2017

              However, nevertheless, I certainly think it is a bad idea to import more Muslims. It is a bad religion, in my view. If folk knew a lot more about it I suspect they would be equally inckined towards my belief that Muslims are best left living in Muslim countries. Beyond a very low number there will always be problems with the host commuities.

    • lurcher1948

       /  July 31, 2017

      What is a middle class dog,??RED is a SPCA special and was picked up in the Hutt Valley but was that part of the valley rich,so whats a middle class dog?
      REDs a mongrel Whippet/Australian cattle dog=LURCHER would he vote red or blue

      Reply
  5. Corky

     /  July 31, 2017

    Damn. Andy is getting pulverised over at the Whalers. This needs to be sorted now. Come on Labour, allow Andy to step down and put Stuart Nash up.

    Reply
  6. Kitty Catkin

     /  July 31, 2017

    Whenever we see that hardy perennial and space-filler when not much is going on by way of news, the filthy boarding houses,nobody ever seems to ask why the tenants don’t clean the place. I have rented in the past and kept the place clean-I had to live there. I was probably fussier than if I’d owned the place, as I would be charged if I left it dirty.

    Cleaning things are cheap enough, the Warehouse has a $1 range of these, and very good they are, too. Surely anyone can afford to be clean.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 31, 2017

      Now, I don’t really want to be kicked in the head for this, but, fundamentally, the best thing to do in my experience, if you want the place to be constantly spotless, is to get a woman in.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 31, 2017

        Trying that, G. Doesn’t seem to work.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  July 31, 2017

          Put her on the line Al.
          I’ll see if I can find out what the problem is.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  July 31, 2017

            Prefers singing and whistling, G. No further diagnosis necessary.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  August 1, 2017

              Really? Well, if it’s not working out as well as you hoped, send her my way. Could be my kind of woman ?

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  July 31, 2017

        There are women in there.. But really-and I am not defending the sharks who rent these places out-the dirt is the tenants’ fault.

        I have just put an order online to the Warehouse, and among the mainly boring items were some cleaning things-$1 & $2 ($2 for 1 litre of all-purpose cleaner, $1 for dunny cleaner and so on) You can’t tell me that anyone cant afford $1 for the 500ml all-purpose cleaner.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  July 31, 2017

          Ok. Get a lady in, is what I meant. And I mean a lady, in comparison, if you get my drift.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  July 31, 2017

            Get anyone in, masculine, feminine or neuter, who knows what to do with a spray bottle of all-purpose cleaner and an old t-shirt to wipe it off with.

            A dunny brush costs $2. Dunny cleaner $1 (TW) Squirt some cleaner in, give it a scrub arround with the brush…all finished.

            The tenants are doing nothing to make the place decent. That’s just laziness.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  July 31, 2017

              It’s no good getting me in, I’m afraid. I wonder if Al’s got any spare time?

  7. Corky

     /  July 31, 2017

    Oh, Godfathers, Mrs Marsh has reincarnated and is back on our screens. Of course the little white kids have gone and more ethnically appropriate children have been used.

    The joke here is fluoride is a poison. Is Mrs Marsh on one of the greatest serial killers of our time?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 31, 2017

      Very unlikely. Are you an Infowars fan?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  July 31, 2017

        Eh?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  July 31, 2017

          I think possibly you & Alex Jones might get on like a house on fire?
          Check out Infowars. See what you think?
          Get back to me?

          Reply
        • PDB

           /  July 31, 2017

          Anti-fluoride people are nutters, though I think most are extreme greenies that use a stone instead of underarm deodorant.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  July 31, 2017

            I prefer the science. The link provided was just for an overview. I came to my conclusions on my own without the need for Anti-fluoride nutters, or Health Board quacks for that matter.

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  July 31, 2017

              The ‘science’ shows no issues with water fluoridation in a New Zealand context, only benefits – https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/review-benefits-costs-water-fluoridation-new-zealand-apr16.pdf

              NZ has had water fluoridation since the late 1950’s/ 1960’s with no widespread problems.

            • Corky

               /  July 31, 2017

              The problem with that rosy picture is the refusal to accept dental fluorosis is also a systemic problem, and does not just effect teeth.

              Fluoride was once used for reducing an overactive thyroid gland. The present test for thyroid function is inadequate. You have to order a special test for a full thyroid profile. Now add that to what is now a chronic storage of iodine in New Zealanders diet and we have a problem.

            • PDB

               /  July 31, 2017

              “The only known side-effect of fluoridation at levels used in New Zealand is mild dental fluorosis, and it makes the teeth look whiter than normal enamel. It is visible to dental health professionals under close examination, and recent evidence from Australia indicates that this fades with time. There are no reported cases of disfiguring fluorosis associated with the fluoridating of water supplies in New Zealand.

              The Ministry of Health’s New Zealand Oral Health Survey 2009 notes, ‘no significant differences in the prevalence of fluorosis…between people living in fluoridated areas and those in non-fluoridated areas’.

              ‘One side-effect of fluoride is for a portion of the population it causes minimal white mottling of the enamel…This is very rarely discernible and is definitely not the severe fluorosis that is so often pictured on websites of those opposed to fluoridation of the public water supply”

              Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, Chief Science Advisor, Office of the Prime Minister’s Science Advisory Committee

            • Corky

               /  July 31, 2017

              It’s good you have confined your comments to New Zealand otherwise this debate would be over.

              The point you are missing is that Dental Fluorisis cannot be a stand along effect in the body. The body must react in some way. Just because its not being picked doesn’t mean its not happening. And you find this with many people who switch to pure water. They usually notice no effect for weeks then they become ill as a detox begins ( detox is not accepted by mainstream medicine) I had this effect, and a full profile thyroid test showed I had an underactive thyroid ( even though I regularly ate seaweed.)

              I believe in the motto ” first do no harm” And given this is a well argued issue its obvious the science is not settled.

              Incidently, while I believe water should be natural. I don’t make a song and dance like the Anti Fluoride brigade. I simply moved to using pure restructured water.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  July 31, 2017

            Hands up those who assumed that the young Hamilton car thieves/killers were boys. (raises own hand)

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  July 31, 2017

              iI don’t know how that came to be there !!!

              It just moved itself up and duplicated itself.

  8. pickled possum

     /  July 31, 2017

    Fluoride
    It is used in aluminium smelting.
    It has the ability to dissolve glass
    It is used in the manufacture of 1080
    Fluoride is also naturally present in huge range of foods,
    In a wide range of concentrations.

    The maximum safe daily consumption of fluoride is 10 mg for an adult.
    It also irritates the stomach, sometimes so severely as to cause ulcers
    Can cause Dental fluorosis (also termed mottled enamel) in young teeth.

    Fluoride is generated by aluminum, steel, fertilizer factories, coal burning power plants and in the production of glass and cement. Gaseous fluoride and other process waste byproducts have previously been allowed to be expelled through the factory smokestack New environmental regulation now require “scrubbers” atop of smokestacks to remove these toxic chemicals from escaping in the air.

    In the past, little attention was paid to the emission of gaseous fluorine compounds in the fertilizer industry. But today fluorine recovery is increasingly necessary because of stringent environmental restrictions which demand drastic reductions in the quantities of volatile and toxic fluorine compounds emitted in the waste gases. These compounds now have to be recovered and converted into harmless by-products for disposal or, more desirably, into marketable products.

    These industries would have to pay dearly to dispose of their fluoride if they could not sell it to municipalities for adding to tap water.

    “In other words,” says William Hirzy, a Senior EPA scientist, “fluoride that otherwise would be an air and water pollutant is no longer a pollutant as long as it’s poured into your reservoir. The solution to pollution is dilution and in this case, the dilution is your drinking water.”

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 31, 2017

      Chek yaw jungle telegraph.

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  July 31, 2017

      Fluorine and Hydrogen Fluoride are extremely extremely chewy and not at all nice to be near. But equally they don’t last very long before they eat something and turn into something else.

      Fluoride is that something else – lots of different kinds of it. 1080 is one kind, not a very kind kind. Teflon is another kind, much kinder. Like everything else, it all depends on context.

      Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  July 31, 2017

      You can’t believe that, you just can’t.

      If fluoride was really poisonous, why has nobody in NZ died of it in the 60 years that it’s been in the water ?

      There is more than one kind of fluoride. It occurs naturally in many places.

      Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  July 31, 2017

      If I was on town water and shared your concerns posser I would simply install a reverse osmosis filter. This would free me to devote my limited time to another of the vast array of worthy causes competing for attention. What do you think of this as a strategy?

      Reply
      • pickled possum

         /  July 31, 2017

        The reverse osmosis process removes 92-99% of beneficial calcium and magnesium ….
        so not much on that strategy Con.
        I would have to have a magnesium foot bath Every night.
        So glad I collect water of the roof … but then there is the birds that shit on the roof …
        potential e coli problem o …hmmm could this be one of My worthy causes,
        worthy of my attention.
        The fluoride saga reminds me of the marmite saga,
        making a very marketable product out of waste
        Innovative stylz.

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  July 31, 2017

          Scratch that strategy posser, you’ve won me over

          Reply
  9. Kitty Catkin

     /  July 31, 2017

    Hands up those who assumed that the young Hamilton car thieves/killers were boys. (raises own hand)

    Reply
  10. Boo boo the foo foo. Go to bed McCain. Lol. You have to love this Terrance, Trump’s main man.

    Reply
  11. duperez

     /  July 31, 2017

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s