Open Forum – Tuesday

15 August 2017

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site will have to keep going through moderation due to abuses by a small number of malicious people.

A wide variety of topics and views are encouraged and welcomed, but some topics and some extremes may not be appropriate nor allowed.

37 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  August 15, 2017

    Doesn’t even make the news now. Europes inexorable slide towards oblivion.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/officials-french-soldiers-hit-vehicle-paris-170809071752400.html

  2. Corky

     /  August 15, 2017

    Looking at the Whalers list and doing a little thinking of my own, it’s quite conceivable we may get a hung election or a limp wrist do nothing minority government.

    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/08/whaleoils-election-wish-list/

  3. Gezza

     /  August 15, 2017

    Waikato’s top cop tried to put pressure on his staff to stop the arrest of his daughter.

    Area commander Superintendent Bruce Bird was the subject of an employment investigation after the incident but has been allowed to keep his job. He is also subject to an Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) investigation. Interfering with the arrest of a friend or family member is a conflict of interest and a breach of police policy.

    Bird’s daughter was arrested after a domestic incident in January and taken to Hamilton Central Police Station, sources told the Herald.

    Soon after, Bird – who has been Waikato’s top cop since 2014 – found out about the arrest and phoned the senior officer on duty and put pressure on him to stop the arrest from happening.

    Despite his interference, the woman was still processed and arrested. The Heraldunderstands the prosecution was handled outside the Waikato district and she was given diversion.

    The senior officer who was on duty when Bird’s daughter was brought in abruptly quit police shortly afterwards, the Herald understands. The officer, who the Herald has chosen not to name, then filed an official complaint with the IPCA. An investigation is still ongoing.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11894813

    • High Flying Duck

       /  August 15, 2017

      It’s good to see the police carrying out their duties even under undue pressure from within – A terrible look for a commander to pressure the front line like that, but I think this shows it was one bad egg rather than any systemic issues which is comforting.
      It’ll be interesting how the fallout is handled.

  4. It’s been evident that WRP will be in whatever Govt there is.

    It’s simply a matter of throwing so much at him that he buckles at his exclusively Saville Row clad knees. He’s far, far too old to be offered London in 2020 so wha can we expect.

    1) Knighthood immediately after retirement in three years.
    2) Various board sinecures arranged by Nat mates ( think Doug Graham)
    3) Enhancements to Gold Card – serious legacy.
    4) Anything to help him grow NZF, particularly in the North and with MCM ( middle class Māori)
    5) Cabinet positions with high profile, in areas he’s big on, like IMMIGRATION, Māori Welfare maybe Education, Justice, Police.
    6) Huge concessions on Immigration numbers. The Nats had better be looking at stopping the Indian students staying on for post tertiary work experience. He’ll kibosh that on day one
    7)Deputy PM

    Many of the things he will want will be around building brand NZF without it being consumed by the dominant party.

    In National’s worst day they can easily govern with JUST Peters. He will want to sideline both the Māori Party and ACT. That’d be a luxury he couldn’t have with Labour. The Greens are needed there in any scenario.

    Prediction. Nat/ NZF to govern.

    P.S. imho he’s not a well man. So there’s a chance he won’t last the three years.

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2017

      Nobody’s ever given him the Immigration Portfolio though he’s been banging on about it his whole career.

      Anyway, bookmarked.

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2017

      Btw, I listened to Parts 1 & 10 of Martin Van Beynen’s Black Hands podcast about the Bain murders. I might go back sometime & listen to a couple of the others but I don’t need to. I’m pretty sure over the years I’ve probably already reviewed all the evidence & reports those parts will cover & I agree with Van Beynen’s conclusion anyway.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  August 15, 2017

      Maybe Peters will be given a platinum card.

      Never invest in a company with an ex MP on the board.

    • PDB

       /  August 15, 2017

      Hopefully Peters goes with Labour and they become a lame-duck govt unable to do anything without his approval.

  5. Why I’d never want Govt presenting Civics.

    • “Views that fall outside the accepted liberal-left spectrum get short shrift in my staffroom. I have watched teachers react incredulously – almost to the point of tears – when colleagues have tried floating a reasonable case for Brexit. This would be harmless enough if it did not put in doubt their ability empathise with views opposed to their own.

      Unfortunately, I see that lack of empathy in the classroom. It worries me that few of my colleagues seem to understand why Conservatives think as they do. In lessons discussing the general election, I have seen teachers make half-hearted attempts to present a rightwing line of reasoning about the major issues. Their bored or frustrated tone of voice says it all.

      In theory students are introduced to a range of ideologies through studying government and politics. But I have only heard Labour politicians being criticised by fellow teachers for being too rightwing. We have had assemblies celebrating feminists and the campaign for a living wage, which are excellent and informative, but with no attention given to right-of-centre subjects (none that weren’t heavily critical, anyway).”

      https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2017/jun/24/secret-teacher-school-echo-chamber-leftwing-views-labour

      • Gezza

         /  August 15, 2017

        Civics isn’t taught in schools here is it? 😳

  6. lurcher1948

     /  August 15, 2017

    OPPS i was thinking of corky and donald trump and the alt white and kiwi blog and WOBH

    so many racist nutters posting on the web or in real life

    • Corky

       /  August 15, 2017

      National Party agrees with Indian list MP who wants a law change to allow Sikhs to wear their ceremonial dagger in public.

      This from a party who once talked about one law for all.

      Thankfully they are aligned with the racist Maori Party so people will know which political block to not vote for.

      As for you, Lurchy. Ask the nurse if you can have a supervised vist to town to observe the real world.

  7. The parliament issued a final report on a petition of R Renton & >17k kiwis, calling for med-herb reform. It seems the biggest stumbling block, is answerable with one word:

    ‘Comments from the Ministry of Health
    The ministry said that the term “cannabis in New Zealand for medical use” used by the petitioner appears to cover a range of substances. These range from unprocessed or
    partially processed cannabis plant material to products containing extracts of the cannabis
    plant that meet the internationally accepted standards for medicines. The ministry has
    limited its comments to products containing extracts of the cannabis plant. It uses the term
    “cannabis-based products” because very few of the substances available meet the quality
    and safety requirements normally associated with the term “medicine”.

    The ministry told us that the Government does not support the use of leaf or unprocessed
    cannabis for medical purposes. This is because there is no way to control the dose or
    potency of unprocessed cannabis, and there is risk that it might contain contaminants. We
    asked whether there was any evidence of excessive harm from people using leaf products.
    The ministry said that if a product is to be treated as a medicine, people have to know what
    is in it. There is the risk of respiratory harm or fungal infections if the products are not
    properly maintained.’

    The word is : BEDROCAN, a commercially grown medicinal herb (EU), that ticks the two boxes above, (that Dunne is trying to say are untickable)
    It is grown on ‘clean room’ green houses (free of contaminants) from cloned seedlings; that conform to tolerance limits on content of ‘known active ingredients’.

    Why is it that this Govt. are ignoring overseas evidence, just to make excuses for their almost ZERO-tolerance approach to cannabis ? recent polls >75% support broad med-use

  8. High Flying Duck

     /  August 15, 2017

    It’s good to see Labour fostering relations with our closest neighbours in the lead up to the election. Jacinda’s presser should be a goodie at 5.15…

    “New Zealand is facing an election. Should there be a change of Government, I would find it very hard to build trust with those involved in allegations designed to undermine the Government of Australia,” Bishop said today.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11904717

    • You tell her Jules

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2017

      They’re not exactly *best mates* of ours any more are they anyway? They tend to shit on our PMs & Foreign Ministers & make them look like idiots already.

    • PDB

       /  August 15, 2017

      Surely Labour are not dealing in *real* dirty politics?

      • Blazer

         /  August 15, 2017

        they haven’t mastered the…art.

      • Gezza

         /  August 15, 2017

        The problem is that as a New Zealand citizen as well as an Australian citizen, Joyce is ineligible to represent Australians in Parliament. So, naturally, Julie Bishop would be pissed off because this is unforeseen & unfortunate consequence of their law & now it has hit them in the moosh.

        • PDB

           /  August 15, 2017

          He’s just had his NZ citizenship denounced.

          • Gezza

             /  August 15, 2017

            Well, exactly. Now he joins the ranks of other kiwis who’ve effectively had their NZ citizenship denounced too.

            • Gezza

               /  August 15, 2017

              Kiwis living in Oz, I mean.

              “Ozzie, ozzie, ozzie – Oi oi oi” always seems to me be such an appropriate way od identifying yourself as an Australian, these days.

            • Gezza

               /  August 15, 2017

              😡 * od = of.

            • PDB

               /  August 15, 2017

              Jacinda is late, must be asking the real Labour leader Grant Robertson what to do………

          • PDB

             /  August 15, 2017

            A lot of use of the word ‘clear’ (8-9 times in the speech). If NZ Labour think this was all a simple mistake by one of their MP’s doing a favour for a Australian Labour MP mate without even asking why he would be asking such questions in our parliament then they are in la la land.

            • Gezza

               /  August 15, 2017

              Who were you were referring to when you said he’d had his NZ citizenship denounced?

            • Blazer

               /  August 15, 2017

              its actually a case of Bishop trying to influence the NZ election.Ardern has responded forcefully….keep up.

            • PDB

               /  August 15, 2017

              Hilarious take on things Blazer! Ardern fails again by sticking up for her Labour mate who is obviously telling porkies! (and she was very ‘clear’ in doing so).

            • Gezza

               /  August 15, 2017

              Nah, Blazer’s right. Just saw Julie Bishop on 1ewes putting on the bitchface & trying to frighten kiwis into not voting Labour. Jacinta called the Ozzer High Commissioner in & gave him the arse card to pass on to her. All good. The Aussies have got their Parliamentary dicks caught in the zips of their anti-kiwiisim & xenophobia. That’s not Jacinta’s fault, it’s theirs.

              Big Gerry was on too, rolling over so Julie could tickle his tummy. Fuck he’s an embarassment as a Foreign Minister. No balls at all.

            • PDB

               /  August 15, 2017

              Blazer is never right and if NZ Labour was all in the clear why did Ardern herself say Hipkins was wrong to ask the questions in the first instance? The Ardern ‘spell’ might have you two entranced but the veneer is dropping on a daily basis showing the same old disfunctional Labour party beneath.

            • Gezza

               /  August 15, 2017

              Nah that’s not the issue. The issue is why is this Joyce character in the shit over in kangaroo land? Answer: Cos he’s a New Zealand citizen as well as an Australian one. If being an NZ citizen wasn’t a problem there wouldn’t even be an issue. Ozzers are tossers about this. That’s what the problem is.

              You said yourself his NZ citizenship is being denounced over there.

              He’ll have to take steps to officially renounce it over here I expect. Not sure where that’ll leave him in respect of being a Kiwi persona non grata for the last however many years the man’s been in their Parliament.

            • Gezza

               /  August 15, 2017

              @ PDB. And just so you don’t do a Corky & make another totally incorrect assumption about my political views, I don’t personally, at the moment, think Jacinta’s got a shit-show of forming a stable government coalition after September 23 so any mistaken idea you might have that I’m “entranced by the Arden spell” should be abandoned immediately.