Trump irony: “I need the facts”

An ironic excuse from  President Trump for taking two days to condemn extreme groups involved in the Charlottesville protests.

Also from CNN today:

37 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  August 16, 2017

    So, who started the riots?

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  August 16, 2017

      So you have white supremacists and white nationalist militia spoiling for a fight, dressed in camouflage gear, body armour, helmets, throat mikes and earpieces, carrying shields, swastika flags and assault rifles, full of hate speech and bigotry…

      … and counter-protestors determined to convey that the rallygoers’ ideology was not welcome in America.

      Any suggestion, implicit or explicit, that the counter-protesters might have started this is a vile false equivalence used to excuse and mask ideologies of hatred and racism.

      • sorethumb

         /  August 16, 2017

        Infants show racial bias toward members of own race and against those of other races
        http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-robert-lee-hero-racist-icon-20170813-story.html
        Because they experience family, aunts, uncles and grandparents like themselves.
        Applies to all races.

        • sorethumb

           /  August 16, 2017

          and we are talking about 6 to9 month olds.

          • duperez

             /  August 16, 2017

            It’s appropriate then that there’s a man-child in charge of the country.

            • sorethumb

               /  August 16, 2017

              look: squirrell

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  August 16, 2017

              “look squirrel” is the name of the game you’ve been playing since the weekend, thumbkin.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  August 16, 2017

        Don’t forget the confederate flags, no self respecting southern white supremacist would go out without one.

      • sorethumb

         /  August 16, 2017

        … and counter-protestors determined to convey that the rallygoers’ ideology was not welcome in America.
        …….
        throwing bags of faeces and urine.

      • Corky

         /  August 16, 2017

        So, Joe Bloggs

        1- Who had the permit to protest?

        2- What does Robert Creamer have to do with this?

        3- Why are you firing rhetoric all over the place especially when the KKK has its beginnings in socialism ( Democrats). Just like the Nazis, Mussolini and Stalin and the UN.?

        4- These protesters are blood brothers.

        As for ”vile false equivalence” Lol.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 16, 2017

      “A generation after the civil rights movement, black and Latino residents began pressuring elected officials to dismantle Lee and other Confederate memorials in places like New Orleans, Houston and South Carolina. The removals *partly* were based on violent acts committed by white supremacists using Confederate imagery and *historians* questioning the legitimacy of The Lost Cause.”
      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-robert-lee-hero-racist-icon-20170813-story.html
      Blacks, Latinos, progressive historians
      Lack of diversity in US Universities
      https://heterodoxacademy.org/2015/11/30/heterodox-academys-guide-to-the-most-and-least-politically-diverse-colleges-first-edition/

      • sorethumb

         /  August 16, 2017

        Point: this isn’t just about the KKK. There is a continuum and people from Unite Right tried to distance themselves from the KKK and Neo Nazis. The game is kick the ball into the goal post : KKK. The media show no balance as usual.

  2. Patzcuaro

     /  August 16, 2017

    All Trumps tweets need to go into moderation, I believe you have some experience in this area PG, could be a job opportunity for you in this internet age. Mind you I don’t think Trump is keen on out sourcing.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 16, 2017

      Trump represents free speech where there is (otherwise) and political machine (the political class) encompassing the values and ideology of an elite. Trump represents a rejection of that elite.

  3. Joe Bloggs

     /  August 16, 2017

    trump represents free speech? Bullshit.

    Remember the time trump waited until he “knew the facts” after what was suspected as an Islamic-related attack? Me neither.

    When a black CEO walks out of trump’s manufacturers council, trump trashed him to the core. When 4 white CEOs walk out trump remains silent…

    trump doesn’t represent free speech, he represents hate speech

    • sorethumb

       /  August 16, 2017

      Free speech in the sense of giving expression to a stifled voice as he did in the US elections. To begin with they thought Trump was a clown and were waiting for a spectacular flop. In fact he showed the more he faced up to the progressive media the more people were impressed by him.

      • Joe Bloggs

         /  August 16, 2017

        the more he faced up to the progressive media the more people were impressed by him

        which of course explains why his support base is crumbling left, right, and centre…

        which of course explains why even the odious Orrin Hatch dissed trump’s statement on Charlottesville…

        which of course is why House Speaker Paul Ryan tweeted “We must be clear. White supremacy is repulsive. This bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. There can be no moral ambiguity.”

        which of course is why five prominent CEOs have left trump’s manufacturers council in protest against his words…

        which is why Steve Scalise tweeted “I was clear about this bigotry & violence over the weekend and I’ll repeat it today: We must defeat white supremacy and all forms of hatred.”

        /allsarc

        It seems the only people cheering trump’s remarks are David Duke, white supremacists of America, and you

        You must be loving all that winning and Making Amerikkka Great Again

  4. Joe Bloggs

     /  August 16, 2017

    The doctrine of free speech is textbook law, but but it’s textbook law that doesn’t take into account white supremacists armed with assault rifles invading a city and promising confrontation.

    So the government doesn’t get to bar neo-Nazis from marching in a park just because they’re neo-Nazis. But when neo-Nazis are better equipped than police and come intent on intimidation, control of the streets and fomenting violence, doesn’t the government have a compelling interest in regulating their expressive conduct more carefully than it’d be able to otherwise?

    Rallies held by gun-toting, armoured militia are not “free speech” rallies.

    The principle of free speech doesn’t gel with the white supremacist threat that “we are coming to your town with the power to kill you”. That’s a failure of America’s First Amendment jurisprudence to reckon with its Second Amendment reality.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 16, 2017

      Unite Right had a permit to protest.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  August 16, 2017

        People who jump up and down about their rights often forget the responsibilities that go with right. In this case you have a right to free speech but a responsibility not to offend another group. Marching around the streets with flaming torches is an attempt to intimidate non whites harking back to the days of lynchings.

      • Joe Bloggs

         /  August 16, 2017

        and they had open carry permits for military/assault rifles…

        Clearly you’re not bothered that the principle of free speech doesn’t gel with the white supremacist threat that “we are coming to your town with the power to kill you”. That’s a failure of America’s First Amendment jurisprudence to reckon with its Second Amendment reality.

  5. sorethumb

     /  August 16, 2017

    Q: Do you think what you call the alt left is the same as neo-Nazis?

    Trump: All of those people — i’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.

    You take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop? You take a look. The night before. They were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.

    Infrastructure question. Go ahead.

    Q: Does the statue of Robert E. Lee stay up?

    Trump: I would say that is up to a local town, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located.
    https://www.vox.com/2017/8/15/16154028/trump-press-conference-transcript-charlottesville

    That has really pissed the media off (narrative shifting).

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  August 16, 2017

      and he also says that there are “many fine people on both sides”

      Nazis and the KKK are not “fine people”. End. Of. Story.

      • sorethumb

         /  August 17, 2017

        and he said that there were people there protesting the removal of the statues (meaning as legitimate protesters). I think he was referring to them.

  6. Joe Bloggs

     /  August 16, 2017

    Of course there is inevitably wrong on both sides of any confrontation, but this is not the critical issue here. A small group of self-avowed Nazis and white supremacists came bearing assault rifles, torches, and shields, with the express purpose of terrorising the people of Charlottesville. They killed Heather Heyer, and injured 19 more. And they did it, in the words of David Duke, in support of president trump.

    trump’s response is disgraceful. In failing to take a stand against a brutal challenge to democracy and the fundamental principles of the American constitution, and in his rude and belligerent assault on the legitimate questions of a free press, he has crossed a(nother) line.

    He just doesn’t get it. He doesn’t get the fact that being a Nazi and espousing race hate is not just another opinion.

    His is the ideology and behaviour that has fueled murderous regimes across the political spectrum, from Nazi Germany, to the former Yugoslavia, to Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, to Rwanda, to the Islamic State, to China under Mao. The threat to democracy is no longer hypothetical. He must be removed.

    • Brown

       /  August 16, 2017

      What a load of bollocks. Both sides act like ferals when it suits yet its always the right that’s the problem? I have no time for neo Nazis and the KKK but equally hate the smug Antifa and the stupid Black Lives Matter bullshit. I think its inevitable that the two extremes will square off and get ugly – such is the natural way of human behaviour whether you like it or not. History supports a view that the left big govt types have more blood on their hands than the right small govt so for the time being I’m more suspicious of the lefties. What’s worse is that, scruffy as he may be, I like Trump because the alternatives were worse in my view.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  August 16, 2017

        How about Brown lives to they matter?

        • Brown

           /  August 16, 2017

          I don’t care about color. Character alone matters.

          • sorethumb

             /  August 17, 2017

            I can think of two different TED talks by two different black women and have two completely different feelings. One is a doctor who talks about childhood trauma (universal) and the other is a drama queen who talks about intersectionality. She reels of names while she shows us the pictures of black women killed by police as members of the white audience weep.

  7. David

     /  August 16, 2017

    The ACLU, hardly a fan of the right, are taking on the Chalottesville authorities for allowing Antifa protestors armed with baseball bats were allowed to protest without a permit and that they wernt kept seperate. The ACLU are accusing the authorities of allowing the groups to clash so they could call an emergency and call the whole thing off.
    The ACLU have also raised concerns about the Black Lives Matters protestors who were screaming and armed for a fight and again the police allowed them to clash with the right wingers.
    It takes 2 to tango and google Antifa and putting aside any Trump hatred see these people for what they are and they were looking to provoke and for a bit of biffo. Pox on both their houses

  8. David

     /  August 16, 2017

    And this is Obama,s reaction to a Black Lives Matter shooting cops and he wasnt taken to task for not calling them out.

  9. sorethumb

     /  August 17, 2017

    This gets to the root of the issue

    What happens when sacred values conflict on campus? Truth loses
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/